But even Bush wasn't this bad. Sixth to last in a class of 900 is completely ridiculous considering the man is running for president.
But such a horrible ranking reeks of no motivation and no natural intelligence whatsoever; for a voter who is undecided and divided on the issues, it would probably make sense to take the guy who finished first over a total idiot.
No motivation? Maybe 50 years ago he was troubled, but even though I don't like the man I must contest that everything he has done since then has proven that he has motivation. Otherwise how would he have risen in the ranks? Or become a Senator in the first place? A very weak argument - there are plenty of other issues to raise against McCain, but this is not one of them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
But even Bush wasn't this bad. Sixth to last in a class of 900 is completely ridiculous considering the man is running for president.
But such a horrible ranking reeks of no motivation and no natural intelligence whatsoever; for a voter who is undecided and divided on the issues, it would probably make sense to take the guy who finished first over a total idiot.
Consider this easy counter: As a young amn I made many mistakes. Then I joined the military and turned my life around. Now look a me!
Anyone know why the Democrats haven't even mentioned the fact that McCain finished 894/899 in his graduating class? One would think it would swing quite a few votes, since sixth from last is unbelievably horrible, especially considering Obama finished first in law school
In addition to the reasons listed above, it certainly would put fuel to the fire for the ridiculous 'elitism' arguments against Obama, and would do more harm than hurt to him.
McCain hurts himself plenty, recently using Wikipedia as a source for a speech on Georgia, for example.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
But even Bush wasn't this bad. Sixth to last in a class of 900 is completely ridiculous considering the man is running for president.
But such a horrible ranking reeks of no motivation and no natural intelligence whatsoever; for a voter who is undecided and divided on the issues, it would probably make sense to take the guy who finished first over a total idiot.
Ok, now prove the fact that McCain didn't do well in his Bachelors in Naval Engineering curriculum some 50 years ago has an impact on him being president.
I mean, if McCain ever has to design a submarine, we're all ****ed, that goes without saying. But that's not part of the job description, and everything he's done outside of Annapolis since then carries more weight.
Ok, now prove the fact that McCain didn't do well in his Bachelors in Naval Engineering curriculum some 50 years ago has an impact on him being president.
I mean, if McCain ever has to design a submarine, we're all ****ed, that goes without saying. But that's not part of the job description, and everything he's done outside of Annapolis since then carries more weight.
I'm more concerned over who wrote his economic policy and who they pick for their cabinent. If anything so far, McCain has shown with the one toad that quit he's not serving the will of the majority of Americans. Sure the guy had a phd, but his moronic banking policies got us into the straights we are partially today. I'd loathe to think who else would be in his administration.
Obama had a more robust and mixed consultation group, but his windfall tax policy is for teh lose.
At least both men seem to adapt (some what) and learn, if only they would have had more debates
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I can sort of understand why Obama doesn't want to debate. McCain's been a living gaffe machine lately. If McCain gaffes during a debate and Obama points it out then he could be construed as a bad guy. If he doesn't point it out, then he could be accused of not knowing something important.
I can sort of understand why Obama doesn't want to debate. McCain's been a living gaffe machine lately. If McCain gaffes during a debate and Obama points it out then he could be construed as a bad guy. If he doesn't point it out, then he could be accused of not knowing something important.
It doesn't matter what it is, the point is Obama was offered the chance to do several less formal town hall debates, and his campaign refused without even trying to haggle the number down. It's sad that Obama's not willing to engage his opponent.
The Obama campaign is criticizing both Bush and McCain for not seeing the Georgian situation before it happened. What a crock. This is clearly an attempt to deflect attention from the fact that when Obama was faced with the situation, his reaction was completely the wrong one. Obama didn't know what to do after the situation happened and he's blaming McCain and Bush for not seeing the situation in advance?
This is clearly an attempt to deflect attention from the fact that when Obama was faced with the situation, his reaction was completely the wrong one.
Please explain. Obama called for restraint from both Russia and Georgia back in July. How is a desire to avoid conflict "completely the wrong" reaction?
It doesn't matter what it is, the point is Obama was offered the chance to do several less formal town hall debates, and his campaign refused without even trying to haggle the number down. It's sad that Obama's not willing to engage his opponent.
You did see the Saddleback debate a couple days ago right? Well, not exactly a debate, but it was interesting nonetheless.
I can sort of understand why Obama doesn't want to debate. McCain's been a living gaffe machine lately. If McCain gaffes during a debate and Obama points it out then he could be construed as a bad guy. If he doesn't point it out, then he could be accused of not knowing something important.
This is ludicrously optimistic. I'm sorry, but democrats, even Obama, play politics too. He probably just didn't want to share the media spotlight with McCain, which is sensible. McCain's been downplayed the past few months.
Please explain. Obama called for restraint from both Russia and Georgia back in July. How is a desire to avoid conflict "completely the wrong" reaction?
Georgia was being invaded. Why the hell would you tell the country that is being invaded by Russia to show restraint? If someone were being mugged, would you say, "Whoa, let's settle down there you two"?
Obama would later amp up his condemnation of Russia's actions. This is another situation where Obama shifts his stance to McCain's stance as he finds out more about what's going on. For those of you who are wondering why experience matters, it's because it makes for better decision making, as illustrated here.
Has anyone seen the new Obama attack ad? He has a clip of McCain talking about the economy not being completely in ruins, and then has people from illinois and indiana talking about how bad the economy is with the line: How can McCain fix the economy if he doesn't even think it's broken?
The ads from both cams really suck this time around.
@TIBA: You're completely right. On top of that, Obama makes great speeches, but is nowhere near as strong on his feet. It's why everyone in his competition has been trying to get him into a debate. It has absolutely no upside for him.
Georgia was being invaded. Why the hell would you tell the country that is being invaded by Russia to show restraint? If someone were being mugged, would you say, "Whoa, let's settle down there you two"?
Obama would later amp up his condemnation of Russia's actions. This is another situation where Obama shifts his stance to McCain's stance as he finds out more about what's going on. For those of you who are wondering why experience matters, it's because it makes for better decision making, as illustrated here
Yeah back in July, Obama was right. It was georgia's president Sakashvilly that intiated this whole conflict when they sought to take russia backed south ossetia in august. So when Obama asked for restraint on both sides, nothing major had happened. If Georgia showd restraint, russia wouldn''t have had a reason to retaliate, but Sakashvilly blew the door wide open for russia to take advantage. Now that russia is showing signs of increasing hostility against georgia in the name of protecting the breakaway states, Obama should change his stance because the situation's changed.
Not when Obama made that statement. Georgia and Russia were doing a lot of saber rattling then. So again, what completely wrong reaction did Obama have after this conflict became hot?
Georgia was being invaded. Why the hell would you tell the country that is being invaded by Russia to show restraint? If someone were being mugged, would you say, "Whoa, let's settle down there you two"?
Obama would later amp up his condemnation of Russia's actions. This is another situation where Obama shifts his stance to McCain's stance as he finds out more about what's going on. For those of you who are wondering why experience matters, it's because it makes for better decision making, as illustrated here.
You really just answered your question for me right there.
umm you know that Georgia may be guilty of genocide. Obama called for restraint of both country because first if Georgia didn't attack villages in those two break away provinces and cause the suspicion for genocide then Russia would have no excuse for attacking Georgia. Despite the fact that Russia may just want the provinces, it still needed an excuse just like how Bush wanted to invade Iraq and used the Weapons of Mass Destruction bullcrap.
Im not saying genocide in Georgia did or didn't happen but it sure gave Russia a dam good excuse.
It's interesting to me how Obama is somehow considered lame for changing his position to reflect a changing situation. As far as him switching his positions, well he did talk about a timetable for withdrawal and meeting our enemies face to face, which was obviously cowardice on his part. Of course, the Iraqis asked for a timetable recently and now the Dubya is sending someone to sit in on the talks the Europeans are having with Iran but . . . um . . . nothing to see here. Move along. As far as Obama being weak in a debate, have you seen McCain speak? It's the most uninspirational sight I've come across in years. No confidence or certainty, just a lot of flubbing and stuttering.
It's interesting to me how Obama is somehow considered lame for changing his position to reflect a changing situation. As far as him switching his positions, well he did talk about a timetable for withdrawal and meeting our enemies face to face, which was obviously cowardice on his part. Of course, the Iraqis asked for a timetable recently and now the Dubya is sending someone to sit in on the talks the Europeans are having with Iran but . . . um . . . nothing to see here. Move along. As far as Obama being weak in a debate, have you seen McCain speak? It's the most uninspirational sight I've come across in years. No confidence or certainty, just a lot of flubbing and stuttering.
Agreed, and Obama has offered debate opportunities, but more of the large audience type rather than the town hall debate - each candidate is attempting to play to their strengths: Obama is a powerful orator and can work a large crowd, but might be at a disadvantage in very small gatherings (might be), while McCain is uncomfortable with public speaking as a whole and the only time he feels comfortable is with the town hall type set-up. Before a large audience he's a stuttering old man. Of course he's a stuttering gaffe machine normally, it just gets worse with a proportionately larger audience.
And also, what previous posters have said about Obama's comments coming before the invasion are true, he was trying to caution both parties before any shots were exchanged, but when the **** came down the situation changed, and so our reactions must change. I don't see how this is so odd.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
It's interesting to me how Obama is somehow considered lame for changing his position to reflect a changing situation.
Actually, I consider the fact that Obama changed his stances as his sole saving grace, but it's sad to me that he would charge McCain and Bush with lack of seeing a situation beforehand that it took him longer to react to in the proper form than McCain did.
but when the **** came down the situation changed, and so our reactions must change. I don't see how this is so odd.
Recently Obama delivered a statement saying the troop surge was a mistake, despite the fact that since the surge major escalations in progress have been made in Iraq. Why isn't he reacting to this situation as it changes?
No, the statement in question is this one, made in August.
So this one?
Quote from Obama »
Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war.
How in the world is that statement completely wrong? Is is wrong to desire less conflict in the world? Basically I don't think you're being fair to Obama here: urging a reduction in hostilities is not a sign of character weakness.
Recently Obama delivered a statement saying the troop surge was a mistake, despite the fact that since the surge major escalations in progress have been made in Iraq. Why isn't he reacting to this situation as it changes?
Recently Obama delivered a statement saying the troop surge was a mistake, despite the fact that since the surge major escalations in progress have been made in Iraq. Why isn't he reacting to this situation as it changes?
Well, the best person to ask would be Obama or someone from his campaign, but I'll give it a shot. Obama has been opposed to the war in Iraq from its beginning. It makes sense that he's more interested in getting out than in commiting more troops.
...Move along. As far as Obama being weak in a debate, have you seen McCain speak? It's the most uninspirational sight I've come across in years. No confidence or certainty, just a lot of flubbing and stuttering.
Agreed, and Obama has offered debate opportunities, but more of the large audience type rather than the town hall debate - each candidate is attempting to play to their strengths: Obama is a powerful orator and can work a large crowd, but might be at a disadvantage in very small gatherings (might be), while McCain is uncomfortable with public speaking as a whole and the only time he feels comfortable is with the town hall type set-up. Before a large audience he's a stuttering old man. Of course he's a stuttering gaffe machine normally, it just gets worse with a proportionately larger audience.
It's more like Obama would love to share a stage in front of a large audience, and give a speech following McCain giving a speech and maybe field a handful of questions. He is far superior in his speeches, and no one can argue that.
Obama is terrible when the audience he's speaking to isn't friendly. Every speech he gives he plants his supporters, and his campaign has done anythign they could to make sure people who didn't support him would not be able to see him speak. On top of that, he doesn't fair to wll in debates. It could just be his passion for what he does, but he tends to deviate from the topic immediatley.
McCain is an old man when giving a speech, and he's not an inspirational speaker. Very much something you expect on C-Span. He also misspeaks a lot and doesn't even try to give speeches that cannot be misquoted. The reason the "Townhall" style is the best for him is because it is done on the fly with an audience that tends to make no noise for either canidate. It's not that he's great at a debate, he's just not as bad as Obama.
I think it shows that people are responding to McCain's attacks, especially since the Obama camp seems reluctant to really hit back.
I also think the poll reflects the problem with Obama's message. All US presidential elections follow the same pattern: candidates run far to the left or right to cinch their parties' nominations and then move back towards the center during the general election. I believe Obama's message of change and moving past politics as is resonated during the primaries. Now that Obama is having to move back towards center some voters who appreciated his primary message might now feel a little betrayed.
No motivation? Maybe 50 years ago he was troubled, but even though I don't like the man I must contest that everything he has done since then has proven that he has motivation. Otherwise how would he have risen in the ranks? Or become a Senator in the first place? A very weak argument - there are plenty of other issues to raise against McCain, but this is not one of them.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
Consider this easy counter: As a young amn I made many mistakes. Then I joined the military and turned my life around. Now look a me!
In addition to the reasons listed above, it certainly would put fuel to the fire for the ridiculous 'elitism' arguments against Obama, and would do more harm than hurt to him.
McCain hurts himself plenty, recently using Wikipedia as a source for a speech on Georgia, for example.
Twitter
Warning for Spam
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Ok, now prove the fact that McCain didn't do well in his Bachelors in Naval Engineering curriculum some 50 years ago has an impact on him being president.
I mean, if McCain ever has to design a submarine, we're all ****ed, that goes without saying. But that's not part of the job description, and everything he's done outside of Annapolis since then carries more weight.
I'm more concerned over who wrote his economic policy and who they pick for their cabinent. If anything so far, McCain has shown with the one toad that quit he's not serving the will of the majority of Americans. Sure the guy had a phd, but his moronic banking policies got us into the straights we are partially today. I'd loathe to think who else would be in his administration.
Obama had a more robust and mixed consultation group, but his windfall tax policy is for teh lose.
At least both men seem to adapt (some what) and learn, if only they would have had more debates
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
You can blame Obama for that one.
Looks like the pick will be announced at the end of the week! Maybe. Or not...
I just think it would be rediculous to blame the summer olympics for a delayed release of his VP pick.
Thanks to the guys at Highlight Studios for the great banner and avatar.
Trade with me http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=101483&highlight=" rel="nofollow"here.
It doesn't matter what it is, the point is Obama was offered the chance to do several less formal town hall debates, and his campaign refused without even trying to haggle the number down. It's sad that Obama's not willing to engage his opponent.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/17/candidates.georgia/index.html
This is sad to me.
The Obama campaign is criticizing both Bush and McCain for not seeing the Georgian situation before it happened. What a crock. This is clearly an attempt to deflect attention from the fact that when Obama was faced with the situation, his reaction was completely the wrong one. Obama didn't know what to do after the situation happened and he's blaming McCain and Bush for not seeing the situation in advance?
Please explain. Obama called for restraint from both Russia and Georgia back in July. How is a desire to avoid conflict "completely the wrong" reaction?
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
You did see the Saddleback debate a couple days ago right? Well, not exactly a debate, but it was interesting nonetheless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL7FRNDkELM&feature=user
Honestly, do I have to keep up on your politics for you?
This is ludicrously optimistic. I'm sorry, but democrats, even Obama, play politics too. He probably just didn't want to share the media spotlight with McCain, which is sensible. McCain's been downplayed the past few months.
Georgia was being invaded. Why the hell would you tell the country that is being invaded by Russia to show restraint? If someone were being mugged, would you say, "Whoa, let's settle down there you two"?
Obama would later amp up his condemnation of Russia's actions. This is another situation where Obama shifts his stance to McCain's stance as he finds out more about what's going on. For those of you who are wondering why experience matters, it's because it makes for better decision making, as illustrated here.
You really just answered your question for me right there.
The ads from both cams really suck this time around.
@TIBA: You're completely right. On top of that, Obama makes great speeches, but is nowhere near as strong on his feet. It's why everyone in his competition has been trying to get him into a debate. It has absolutely no upside for him.
Yeah back in July, Obama was right. It was georgia's president Sakashvilly that intiated this whole conflict when they sought to take russia backed south ossetia in august. So when Obama asked for restraint on both sides, nothing major had happened. If Georgia showd restraint, russia wouldn''t have had a reason to retaliate, but Sakashvilly blew the door wide open for russia to take advantage. Now that russia is showing signs of increasing hostility against georgia in the name of protecting the breakaway states, Obama should change his stance because the situation's changed.
Not when Obama made that statement. Georgia and Russia were doing a lot of saber rattling then. So again, what completely wrong reaction did Obama have after this conflict became hot?
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
umm you know that Georgia may be guilty of genocide. Obama called for restraint of both country because first if Georgia didn't attack villages in those two break away provinces and cause the suspicion for genocide then Russia would have no excuse for attacking Georgia. Despite the fact that Russia may just want the provinces, it still needed an excuse just like how Bush wanted to invade Iraq and used the Weapons of Mass Destruction bullcrap.
Im not saying genocide in Georgia did or didn't happen but it sure gave Russia a dam good excuse.
Thanks to the guys at Highlight Studios for the great banner and avatar.
Trade with me http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=101483&highlight=" rel="nofollow"here.
Agreed, and Obama has offered debate opportunities, but more of the large audience type rather than the town hall debate - each candidate is attempting to play to their strengths: Obama is a powerful orator and can work a large crowd, but might be at a disadvantage in very small gatherings (might be), while McCain is uncomfortable with public speaking as a whole and the only time he feels comfortable is with the town hall type set-up. Before a large audience he's a stuttering old man. Of course he's a stuttering gaffe machine normally, it just gets worse with a proportionately larger audience.
And also, what previous posters have said about Obama's comments coming before the invasion are true, he was trying to caution both parties before any shots were exchanged, but when the **** came down the situation changed, and so our reactions must change. I don't see how this is so odd.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
No, the statement in question is this one, made in August.
Actually, I consider the fact that Obama changed his stances as his sole saving grace, but it's sad to me that he would charge McCain and Bush with lack of seeing a situation beforehand that it took him longer to react to in the proper form than McCain did.
Recently Obama delivered a statement saying the troop surge was a mistake, despite the fact that since the surge major escalations in progress have been made in Iraq. Why isn't he reacting to this situation as it changes?
So this one?
How in the world is that statement completely wrong? Is is wrong to desire less conflict in the world? Basically I don't think you're being fair to Obama here: urging a reduction in hostilities is not a sign of character weakness.
Now that is fair criticism.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Thanks to the guys at Highlight Studios for the great banner and avatar.
Trade with me http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=101483&highlight=" rel="nofollow"here.
It's more like Obama would love to share a stage in front of a large audience, and give a speech following McCain giving a speech and maybe field a handful of questions. He is far superior in his speeches, and no one can argue that.
Obama is terrible when the audience he's speaking to isn't friendly. Every speech he gives he plants his supporters, and his campaign has done anythign they could to make sure people who didn't support him would not be able to see him speak. On top of that, he doesn't fair to wll in debates. It could just be his passion for what he does, but he tends to deviate from the topic immediatley.
McCain is an old man when giving a speech, and he's not an inspirational speaker. Very much something you expect on C-Span. He also misspeaks a lot and doesn't even try to give speeches that cannot be misquoted. The reason the "Townhall" style is the best for him is because it is done on the fly with an audience that tends to make no noise for either canidate. It's not that he's great at a debate, he's just not as bad as Obama.
*edit*
Ouch. How does everyone else feel about this?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080820/ts_nm/usa_poll_politics_dc
I think it shows that people are responding to McCain's attacks, especially since the Obama camp seems reluctant to really hit back.
I also think the poll reflects the problem with Obama's message. All US presidential elections follow the same pattern: candidates run far to the left or right to cinch their parties' nominations and then move back towards the center during the general election. I believe Obama's message of change and moving past politics as is resonated during the primaries. Now that Obama is having to move back towards center some voters who appreciated his primary message might now feel a little betrayed.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.