You can take this question very generally, or if it is hard to grasp in that sense, instead take it very personally as in your daily life.
This is a question that is very much against the grain, because it involves both promise and humility, both hope and despair. It is also very unexpected, because the path from where it originates to where it leads, at least for me, is nothing short of astounding. I have found, at the very least, a very interesting and introspective rabbit-hole, and I want to share it with you.
I don't know if it will resonate with others the same way, or will just lead to a hasty dismissal. I don't know if there have been books written on the subject, and if they are brilliant or lousy.
It brings to mind ingrained sensical recursive advice, such as, "be careful what you wish for," and simultaneously shows us how far we have come yet how little we have accomplished, and how maybe we are asking the wrong questions.
Anyways, I'm interested in your thoughts. I want to know how this question, if realized, would affect you, and all the emotions and pursuits that would happen as a result.
I want to caution you, for the purpose of this exercise, not to fight the question, because it is easy to do. So much of our daily life is predicated on the fact that this question is meaningless. What I am looking for here is for you to ignore the instinct to throw away the question or to answer it without giving it measured thought, because neither of us will learn anything from that, and try to answer as honestly as possible. If you have difficulty with the scope of the exercise, minimalize it so it affects you most personally and focus on it that way. Think about what you would do in this situation, say if you woke up tomorrow and the question were suddenly realized.
This isn't a loaded question. It doesn't assume anything except that you exist as you are now, and you will continue to exist in the future.
And with all that, I think you would expect the question to be complicated, but it can be stated in a very straightforward manner:
Society would crumble. Without conflict, humans would go insane.
However, that may just be the case if conflicts ceased to exist suddenly. I imagine if there was a slow decline in conflict, then things would be slightly different.
The bigger question is: How could there never be problems?
They are not the same. No problems means NO PROBLEMS. No "We ran out of cereal." No "What does 1+1 equal?" No "I forgot to buy butter!" No "TV is on the fritz again!" No "Dang, I just missed that green light."
Absolutely no problems means no interactivity, no challenges to overcome, no fun to be had. Life is conquest, life is problems.
Imagine how boring magic would be if you didnt have problems? Imagine how boring sex would be if you didn't have to "work for it." Sex always feels way better for me when it feels like I earned it. Imagine how boring your job would be if you didnt have to think or work at problems?
No problems = no life.
There definitely wouldn't be only satisfaction. That is a very shallow view of the world. Humans are more complex than pleasure seeking drones.
Of course despair and meaninglessness are problems, so you can't really say that's an outcome. Anything you say would be a non sequitur because you're attempting to abstract something that really has no meaning.
That aside, on a personal level (as you wish) I'm at a point in my life where I feel almost as if I have no problems. I know I must die, and not everything I do is necessarily pleasant, but overall I'm incredibly happy and satisfied. And I'm not even motivated by some specific purpose. I suppose that makes me a hedonist?
So I guess what I mean is that I believe that such a reality is plausible. As stan said, only satisfaction would exist - and I reject that satisfaction is only put into perspective by suffering.
Conflicts are still problems, but problems are not conflicts. I was referencing a specific need of humans to be contrary to one another.
If you feel you have no problems, then you are simply lying. you may be satisfied with life, but you certainly have problems. If you have anything in life you have to overcome, it's a problem.
Take the occupation of engineering. They exist to iron out problems in current technology, and they try to find solutions to problems in the world. In a world without problems, you would not worry about your car ever breaking down, crashing into another car, etc. You would simply have to be insane to accept that the world has no problems left.
And in what way is satisfaction not put into perspective by suffering?
It would be what most people* consider "Heaven" to be, and it would be, by all powers of human conception, the most boring thing in the world. Especially if it goes on for all of eternity.
*Then there's the "You play a harp all day and sing to God for eternity" people, and I only consider that marginally better. At least you're doing something.
You can take this question very generally, or if it is hard to grasp in that sense, instead take it very personally as in your daily life.
This is a question that is very much against the grain, because it involves both promise and humility, both hope and despair. It is also very unexpected, because the path from where it originates to where it leads, at least for me, is nothing short of astounding. I have found, at the very least, a very interesting and introspective rabbit-hole, and I want to share it with you.
I don't know if it will resonate with others the same way, or will just lead to a hasty dismissal. I don't know if there have been books written on the subject, and if they are brilliant or lousy.
It brings to mind ingrained sensical recursive advice, such as, "be careful what you wish for," and simultaneously shows us how far we have come yet how little we have accomplished, and how maybe we are asking the wrong questions.
Anyways, I'm interested in your thoughts. I want to know how this question, if realized, would affect you, and all the emotions and pursuits that would happen as a result.
I want to caution you, for the purpose of this exercise, not to fight the question, because it is easy to do. So much of our daily life is predicated on the fact that this question is meaningless. What I am looking for here is for you to ignore the instinct to throw away the question or to answer it without giving it measured thought, because neither of us will learn anything from that, and try to answer as honestly as possible. If you have difficulty with the scope of the exercise, minimalize it so it affects you most personally and focus on it that way. Think about what you would do in this situation, say if you woke up tomorrow and the question were suddenly realized.
This isn't a loaded question. It doesn't assume anything except that you exist as you are now, and you will continue to exist in the future.
And with all that, I think you would expect the question to be complicated, but it can be stated in a very straightforward manner:
OMG, STooFoo and just say the damn question already.
What if there were no problems?
There would be no problems.
Of course, problems are what we perceive to be problems, and what we perceive to be problems are largely the result of:
1. Living
2. Being human beings
So for there to be no problems, we'd either have to not be human, or not be.
I do believe that satisfaction can exist seperate from suffering. But again, from an objective point of view the question doesn't really have a meaning because our life is constantly defined by problems and limitations. Like so many other things, problems are subjective, so couldn't one not have problems by simply making it so?
I was merely stating how I feel as per the OPs suggestion. Stupid as it is; sometimes liebniz' "best of all possible worlds" makes sense to me.
with no conflict the effect I beleve would be that their would be nothingness. a point of zen or the compleat and utter extinction of everything living. with no life theire is no conflict/problems. From this I conclude that Life is infact a problem or conflict.
Then I'd be as dissatisfied with my existence so as to kill myself.
Alternatively, my work would be done here (regardless of whether or not I actually did anything), so I would kill myself.
It's the same statement.
What the heck were you looking for in an answer? You need to interest yourself in actually doing something, dude, not just talking about extremely removed hypothetical scenarios, and especially not with this theme of 'absoluteness' or totality that runs with these lame questions. It doesn't help philosophy's image.
No problems doesn't sound coherent either. I'm not sure how, but it suggests to me the idea of the set of all sets. . . as though 'problem' is not a definite logical type, and so we can't just talk about all of them.
Or, no, maybe it's because the idea of a problem is essential to instances of cognition, that, since cognition is nothing but the constant process of maximize gains with minimal losses (of some kind), removing all problems is the same statement as implies that there is no such thing as cognition.
Except an omniscient kind, where we still have a coherence problem, and the world would be hella boring even if there isn't.
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Society would crumble. Without conflict, humans would go insane.
However, that may just be the case if conflicts ceased to exist suddenly. I imagine if there was a slow decline in conflict, then things would be slightly different.
The bigger question is: How could there never be problems?
I think your question is smaller. The reason is it is more procedural, and any significance is still based on my question. Your insanity argument is interesting, I like it. As long as insanity is not a problem for you;)
They are not the same. No problems means NO PROBLEMS. No "We ran out of cereal." No "What does 1+1 equal?" No "I forgot to buy butter!" No "TV is on the fritz again!" No "Dang, I just missed that green light."
Absolutely no problems means no interactivity, no challenges to overcome, no fun to be had. Life is conquest, life is problems.
Imagine how boring magic would be if you didnt have problems? Imagine how boring sex would be if you didn't have to "work for it." Sex always feels way better for me when it feels like I earned it. Imagine how boring your job would be if you didnt have to think or work at problems?
No problems = no life.
There definitely wouldn't be only satisfaction. That is a very shallow view of the world. Humans are more complex than pleasure seeking drones.
So what would you do? Your view sounds tough, so how would you go about existing?
Of course despair and meaninglessness are problems, so you can't really say that's an outcome. Anything you say would be a non sequitur because you're attempting to abstract something that really has no meaning.
That aside, on a personal level (as you wish) I'm at a point in my life where I feel almost as if I have no problems. I know I must die, and not everything I do is necessarily pleasant, but overall I'm incredibly happy and satisfied. And I'm not even motivated by some specific purpose. I suppose that makes me a hedonist?
So I guess what I mean is that I believe that such a reality is plausible. As stan said, only satisfaction would exist - and I reject that satisfaction is only put into perspective by suffering.
To clarify, despair and meaninglessness weren't ends, they were among my many reactions to my imagined predicament. I'm not abstracting anything really, everyone has problems, and I think eventually most people accept that problems are closely intertwined with life. What if we unmingle them? Also, you are negotiating happiness with my question. My question cannot be bribed, so be honest.
Conflicts are still problems, but problems are not conflicts. I was referencing a specific need of humans to be contrary to one another.
If you feel you have no problems, then you are simply lying. you may be satisfied with life, but you certainly have problems. If you have anything in life you have to overcome, it's a problem.
Take the occupation of engineering. They exist to iron out problems in current technology, and they try to find solutions to problems in the world. In a world without problems, you would not worry about your car ever breaking down, crashing into another car, etc. You would simply have to be insane to accept that the world has no problems left.
And in what way is satisfaction not put into perspective by suffering?
I actually am an Engineer, and in this scenario you have to just take the "what if" at face value. If you can't accept it you may go insane, which is perfectly plausible. At the very least I would be out of a job. But I wouldn't be upset because it is not a problem. Try thinking a bit about what motivates you.
It would be what most people* consider "Heaven" to be, and it would be, by all powers of human conception, the most boring thing in the world. Especially if it goes on for all of eternity.
*Then there's the "You play a harp all day and sing to God for eternity" people, and I only consider that marginally better. At least you're doing something.
-E
This question wasn't loaded with any assumed afterlife, though I totally expected some to bring it into their own ideas. For those people it may be an interesting question as to whether a "perfect world" has problems. Problems which are forever coming, and always solved in the most fascinating and exciting ways. Some might prefer that paradise. Of course, they would need God to make sure they could handle any problems, because problems by their very nature are mysterious and impacting, and we wouldn't wanted perfection marred by a problem that couldn't be solved in time.
OMG, STooFoo and just say the damn question already.
There would be no problems.
Of course, problems are what we perceive to be problems, and what we perceive to be problems are largely the result of:
1. Living
2. Being human beings
So for there to be no problems, we'd either have to not be human, or not be.
You are going cause and effect, but I think your logic here is debatable. Also, the response that there would be no problems is something a machine would say. SO maybe you are not human after all? Show some emotion, some future planning.
I do believe that satisfaction can exist seperate from suffering. But again, from an objective point of view the question doesn't really have a meaning because our life is constantly defined by problems and limitations. Like so many other things, problems are subjective, so couldn't one not have problems by simply making it so?
I was merely stating how I feel as per the OPs suggestion. Stupid as it is; sometimes liebniz' "best of all possible worlds" makes sense to me.
If you are honest with yourself, could you really get out of your own way long enough to construct a reality out of what is real that to you has no problems? Sounds like a longshot. This question doesn't require you to believe there are no problems, it only makes it so. Of course, that's totally insane. So if you define your life by problems, how would you define your life once there are no problems left to overcome?
with no conflict the effect I beleve would be that their would be nothingness. a point of zen or the compleat and utter extinction of everything living. with no life theire is no conflict/problems. From this I conclude that Life is infact a problem or conflict.
I think your logic is profound, but a bit buggy. In life there are problems, but not in this question. In this question, you are alive and have no problems. What do you do with it?
Good answers so far, but the rabbit-hole goes much deeper.
@HH - The "why the question" answer is really pretty simple. People spend a lot of time saying they are preparing for an event which at its logical end is best described right where my hypothetical lands. For some it is the afterlife, for some it is retirement, for some it is the pinnacle of fame or richness or technological advancement 10,000 years in the future.
Some say happiness and wealth are not dependent, but why is that? Logically, because of what you already said - we are wired for problem solving. I think cognition is based on differentiation, not specifically problems as you imply, but problems create motivation. If you have a treasure map you get so excited about finding the treasure that you follow the map. But what is the treasure?
What happens when all of the problems are solved? We have shorthand for this, and it's called "happily ever after". But what does that really mean? What is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? I am an Engineer, but even to me these are still important questions. And they are to you too. So you really think I am hurting Philosophy's image?
Without problems, life would be very basic. We would be unevolved low organisms just existing,feeding and replicating. It would be very empty I feel
Improvement comes from hardships.
In the Natural world this means evolution happens in order to adapt to a different environment or to gain the abilities needed to survive.
In our day to day lives it means getting what you need to overcome certain situation.
Imagine a professional football team playing in a junior league against 13 year old kids. The professional team would have no problem winning and as a result would never train really hard or develop any new strategies, they don't need it, they just win.
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It is always easy to be tolerant and understanding...Until someone presents an opinion completely opposite to your own.
This question doesn't require you to believe there are no problems, it only makes it so
I would again assert that a problem is purely subjective; in which case believing you have no problems literally means you have no problems. Certainly people can trick themselves - and belief is a complicated subject, but on a superficial level, that is how I see it.
if you define your life by problems, how would you define your life once there are no problems left to overcome?
Our lives aren't defined by problems, but problems are part of what define our lives. Did I say that right? Obviously our life would be different; very, very different. But I'm not certain problems are essential to the purpose, enjoyment, or the experience of life.
I find it hard to discuss something that has literally no pragmatic implications (as I said I do not look forward to anything; not a future career, wealth, afterlife, etc) so I am not striving for any "steady state", nor am I particularly trying to stablize the one that I may or may not be in.
Edit: Depending on the way you're using "problem" the question may or may not be able to be asked. In some ways the question could be paradoxical if you assume having no problems is a problem. But it's not impossible to suppose a human with no problems, if you just impose some conditions.
I would again assert that a problem is purely subjective; in which case believing you have no problems literally means you have no problems. Certainly people can trick themselves - and belief is a complicated subject, but on a superficial level, that is how I see it.
Our lives aren't defined by problems, but problems are part of what define our lives. Did I say that right? Obviously our life would be different; very, very different. But I'm not certain problems are essential to the purpose, enjoyment, or the experience of life.
I find it hard to discuss something that has literally no pragmatic implications (as I said I do not look forward to anything; not a future career, wealth, afterlife, etc) so I am not striving for any "steady state", nor am I particularly trying to stablize the one that I may or may not be in.
Well, I can give you an example of something you would not necessarily need to seek out but motivates you to think about "stabilizing" or such things. Children.
The responsibility of raising children involves many factors that require you to do things that contribute to their growth. You don't want them to suffer, but you want them to overcome obstacles in order to grow. There are basic needs of food and shelter that need to be arranged. There is terminology and more advanced education to impose on them.
And so one day, those children will grow up and have kids of their own, and so on and so on, until some day far into the future, After science has taken us far as it can, and nature holds no new mysteries, our children will face the problem of not having any problems left to explore, because all the mysteries of the universe will have been unraveled.
That is one path to where this question is. There are others, but this is just one example. Don't get caught up on problems being subjective, this is all specific to you, and you are the only one that matters in the context of this question. Even if there are actually problems and you have deluded yourself as you keep suggesting, then what? How do you function, what is your role, how do you redefine the world? Whatever the frame of reference, the question is the same (Actually I have been thinking about frame of reference, but we haven't gotten there as a thread yet).
So if you find it hard to keep to the question, like I said originally, you minimalize the universe to just yourself and your own problems that suddenly vanish. How do you adjust? Where does your focus drift? Even for you with no motivation used to get hungry or cold, and now those things are in the past. What now?
@Biosphere - So suppose time does not stop or the universe does not cease. In fact, the world looks pretty darn familiar, except without all the prickly, painful, irritating, confounding, indecisive, and challenging hoops that you are used to jumping through. You are never running late and there is always enough time in the day. From Extremestan's comment above, I think he may just evolve into a tree. They are pretty good at chilling out. But everyone is different, and this thread's OP wants to capture how today's generation would treat a situation like that.
@Ahasver & HH: That wouldn't happen, because those would be problems
If we hold to that, then I can only say that this entails paradox. I would have a problem with the lack of problems, or I would no longer be who I am should there actually be no problems and thus I am unable to accurately consider it.
The only satisfactory answer I can find as it applies to me is that I would seek death, for a world without problems is inherently without interest to me.
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My anecdotal evidence disagrees with yours! EXPLAIN THAT!
@HH - The "why the question" answer is really pretty simple. People spend a lot of time saying they are preparing for an event which at its logical end is best described right where my hypothetical lands. For some it is the afterlife, for some it is retirement, for some it is the pinnacle of fame or richness or technological advancement 10,000 years in the future.
Some say happiness and wealth are not dependent, but why is that? Logically, because of what you already said - we are wired for problem solving. I think cognition is based on differentiation, not specifically problems as you imply, but problems create motivation. If you have a treasure map you get so excited about finding the treasure that you follow the map. But what is the treasure?
What happens when all of the problems are solved? We have shorthand for this, and it's called "happily ever after". But what does that really mean? What is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? I am an Engineer, but even to me these are still important questions. And they are to you too. So you really think I am hurting Philosophy's image?
No, they're not important to me. You misunderstood what I said.
We aren't "wired for problem solving." Cognition and problem-solving interdefine each other. The actuality of cognition is what makes "problems" and "problem solving" real things, and something like a converse is true.
If problems did not exist, cognition would not exist. But then I don't know what this question is asking about, as it does not at that point have anything to do with me or anything I could ever be, so I don't care.
My bad for even giving a reply to the question; that would make it unclear that my objection was one of paradox.
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How can there ever be no problems? The only theoretical way this would make sense would be in an utopian paradise where no one ever had to work and everything we had ever imagined was already there for everyone to access. Because innovation and novelty have become important aspects to society in the past 200 years or so, technology and the arts would have to undergo an infinitive, never-ending cycle of self expansion. For entertainment, I cannot bear to imagine where the human performers would come from considering that humans cannot film a movie at speeds faster than human thought consumes one and is searching for another. I cannot also imagine why those performers would ever be happy being forced to live life day by day.
Overall, I believe the entire reality of "no problems" would be beyond what humans could grasp. It can never be achieved by man because man is the problem. We are mortal, we make mistakes, we have never-expanding appetites, and it is impossible to satisfy us. We could probably invent a hypothetical situation when we're all happy and satisfied, but every time we think it through, there would be no way that it may exist. The only way for a hypothetical world of "no problems" to exist would be in a world where great changes are made upon humans, in which case, we wouldn't have human qualities at all.
@Ahasver & HH: That wouldn't happen, because those would be problems.
Insanity is not a problem. It's a state of mind. The only way for there to be an absence of all problems is for that person to believe there is an absence of all problems.
Insanity is a problem because society deemed it so. Simply put, problems will only go away by changin what society calls a problem. To say there are no problems signifies a deep mental problem in that person.
No Problems=Meaningless Existence
No happy, no sad, just numb which really isn't living
Basically u can't get rid of one side of a coin and expect the other to still be there. Every feeling has an opposite feeling that it is directly connected to and so do problems and solutions. I would probably just kill myself if there were no problems because any meaning in life would be gone.
Quote from "John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath" »
Fear the time when the bombs stop falling while the bombers live—for every bomb is proof that the spirit has not died. And fear the time when the strikes stop while the great owners live—for every little beaten strike is proof that the step is being taken. And this you can know—fear the time when Manself will not suffer and die for a concept, for this one quality is the foundation of Manself, and this one quality is man, distinctive in the universe.
Conflict is important because it drove every biological process that ever was or is or will be. Conflict also drives every nonbiological process, so that's just that.
A better question would be, "What if there were no suffering?" That could be addressed better, I think. We could always conflict rationally, just never get to the point where things like the Holocaust happen.
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Do I Contradict Myself? Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
If there were no problems, people would invent their own "problems". For example if all people lived in a society without violence, simulated warfare, such as RISK or First Person Shooters, or even role playing games would be adapted.
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Originally Posted by Green Arrow Yes I did, I wouldn't fully disagree with chronoplasam. Perhaps I do deserve toture. But who amongst us besides myself has what it takes to toture me?
Originally Posted by Highroller
Compared to what? I think compared to chocolate ice cream, women, unicorns, and kung fu, the state pretty much sucks.
I don't see how this is possible given that people have different conceptions of what the world should be like.
Perhaps a problemless world would have no sentient life, but otherwise the question seems completely impossbile to comprehend. Anything can be considered a problem, depending on the perspective.
If there were no problems, people would invent their own "problems". For example if all people lived in a society without violence, simulated warfare, such as RISK or First Person Shooters, or even role playing games would be adapted.
Noone else in this thread has gotten this far, yet. Congratulations. You have stopped attacking the question, and come to the correct conclusion. A lot of others have figured that they should stop existing by some means or other, but realistically, that's not going to happen.
And it is interesting that we have already reached a stage where we invent fake problems all the time. This is what I was referring to when I was writing about happiness not necessarily being related to wealth, for example. We try to compensate for the problems that we have already overcome in order to add some element of happiness to our life. Crazy, isn't it?
But where will this lead? Say we reach the point where we have exponentially dropped our problems to near 0, or even 0, then do you just strap yourself into the Matrix? Once there are no mysteries left, how do we place value on our existence? Who will we become as a society?
Many people haven't been willing to get past rigid semantics, and just imagine that a time will exist when eventually they'll become intelligent enough to wipe out their problems, simply through understanding them.
But some of us, at least, are driven to solve problems, and what will happen the first time there is a shortage? Our we are down to one big problem left (we think at the time) and everyone is working at the same time to solve it? What happens when it is solved and there are no problems left to replace it?
See, problems can be labeled a commodity when they become scarce. The value of solving the problem increases, and the economy will shift to the problem solving type as the popular focus is placed there, much like it is to Pharmaceuticals or Oil today. What will our minds be like? Will they be completely and utterly bent on solving the last problem, with disregard for everything else?
Right now, and assuredly for some time to come, there will be plenty of problems to go around, and everyone can choose their own life (unless they have problems where they can't). You can be a doctor, lawyer, or scientist, for example. Eventually, doctors and scientists are no longer necessary because all the problems that made them necessary went away. So everyone is a lawyer. Do you see where this is going? I'm hoping some of you can imagine what our lives will be like then, and give me your thoughts.
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Student of the Game
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This is a question that is very much against the grain, because it involves both promise and humility, both hope and despair. It is also very unexpected, because the path from where it originates to where it leads, at least for me, is nothing short of astounding. I have found, at the very least, a very interesting and introspective rabbit-hole, and I want to share it with you.
I don't know if it will resonate with others the same way, or will just lead to a hasty dismissal. I don't know if there have been books written on the subject, and if they are brilliant or lousy.
It brings to mind ingrained sensical recursive advice, such as, "be careful what you wish for," and simultaneously shows us how far we have come yet how little we have accomplished, and how maybe we are asking the wrong questions.
Anyways, I'm interested in your thoughts. I want to know how this question, if realized, would affect you, and all the emotions and pursuits that would happen as a result.
I want to caution you, for the purpose of this exercise, not to fight the question, because it is easy to do. So much of our daily life is predicated on the fact that this question is meaningless. What I am looking for here is for you to ignore the instinct to throw away the question or to answer it without giving it measured thought, because neither of us will learn anything from that, and try to answer as honestly as possible. If you have difficulty with the scope of the exercise, minimalize it so it affects you most personally and focus on it that way. Think about what you would do in this situation, say if you woke up tomorrow and the question were suddenly realized.
This isn't a loaded question. It doesn't assume anything except that you exist as you are now, and you will continue to exist in the future.
And with all that, I think you would expect the question to be complicated, but it can be stated in a very straightforward manner:
What if there were no problems?
I sincerely look forward to your insights...
However, that may just be the case if conflicts ceased to exist suddenly. I imagine if there was a slow decline in conflict, then things would be slightly different.
The bigger question is: How could there never be problems?
They are not the same. No problems means NO PROBLEMS. No "We ran out of cereal." No "What does 1+1 equal?" No "I forgot to buy butter!" No "TV is on the fritz again!" No "Dang, I just missed that green light."
Absolutely no problems means no interactivity, no challenges to overcome, no fun to be had. Life is conquest, life is problems.
Imagine how boring magic would be if you didnt have problems? Imagine how boring sex would be if you didn't have to "work for it." Sex always feels way better for me when it feels like I earned it. Imagine how boring your job would be if you didnt have to think or work at problems?
No problems = no life.
There definitely wouldn't be only satisfaction. That is a very shallow view of the world. Humans are more complex than pleasure seeking drones.
That aside, on a personal level (as you wish) I'm at a point in my life where I feel almost as if I have no problems. I know I must die, and not everything I do is necessarily pleasant, but overall I'm incredibly happy and satisfied. And I'm not even motivated by some specific purpose. I suppose that makes me a hedonist?
So I guess what I mean is that I believe that such a reality is plausible. As stan said, only satisfaction would exist - and I reject that satisfaction is only put into perspective by suffering.
If you feel you have no problems, then you are simply lying. you may be satisfied with life, but you certainly have problems. If you have anything in life you have to overcome, it's a problem.
Take the occupation of engineering. They exist to iron out problems in current technology, and they try to find solutions to problems in the world. In a world without problems, you would not worry about your car ever breaking down, crashing into another car, etc. You would simply have to be insane to accept that the world has no problems left.
And in what way is satisfaction not put into perspective by suffering?
*Then there's the "You play a harp all day and sing to God for eternity" people, and I only consider that marginally better. At least you're doing something.
-E
OMG, STooFoo and just say the damn question already.
There would be no problems.
Of course, problems are what we perceive to be problems, and what we perceive to be problems are largely the result of:
1. Living
2. Being human beings
So for there to be no problems, we'd either have to not be human, or not be.
I was merely stating how I feel as per the OPs suggestion. Stupid as it is; sometimes liebniz' "best of all possible worlds" makes sense to me.
Then I'd be as dissatisfied with my existence so as to kill myself.
Alternatively, my work would be done here (regardless of whether or not I actually did anything), so I would kill myself.
It's the same statement.
What the heck were you looking for in an answer? You need to interest yourself in actually doing something, dude, not just talking about extremely removed hypothetical scenarios, and especially not with this theme of 'absoluteness' or totality that runs with these lame questions. It doesn't help philosophy's image.
No problems doesn't sound coherent either. I'm not sure how, but it suggests to me the idea of the set of all sets. . . as though 'problem' is not a definite logical type, and so we can't just talk about all of them.
Or, no, maybe it's because the idea of a problem is essential to instances of cognition, that, since cognition is nothing but the constant process of maximize gains with minimal losses (of some kind), removing all problems
is the same statement asimplies that there is no such thing as cognition.Except an omniscient kind, where we still have a coherence problem, and the world would be hella boring
evenif there isn't.Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
And then what? For example, the next day. What do you do?
I think your question is smaller. The reason is it is more procedural, and any significance is still based on my question. Your insanity argument is interesting, I like it. As long as insanity is not a problem for you;)
So what would you do? Your view sounds tough, so how would you go about existing?
To clarify, despair and meaninglessness weren't ends, they were among my many reactions to my imagined predicament. I'm not abstracting anything really, everyone has problems, and I think eventually most people accept that problems are closely intertwined with life. What if we unmingle them? Also, you are negotiating happiness with my question. My question cannot be bribed, so be honest.
I actually am an Engineer, and in this scenario you have to just take the "what if" at face value. If you can't accept it you may go insane, which is perfectly plausible. At the very least I would be out of a job. But I wouldn't be upset because it is not a problem. Try thinking a bit about what motivates you.
This question wasn't loaded with any assumed afterlife, though I totally expected some to bring it into their own ideas. For those people it may be an interesting question as to whether a "perfect world" has problems. Problems which are forever coming, and always solved in the most fascinating and exciting ways. Some might prefer that paradise. Of course, they would need God to make sure they could handle any problems, because problems by their very nature are mysterious and impacting, and we wouldn't wanted perfection marred by a problem that couldn't be solved in time.
You are going cause and effect, but I think your logic here is debatable. Also, the response that there would be no problems is something a machine would say. SO maybe you are not human after all? Show some emotion, some future planning.
If you are honest with yourself, could you really get out of your own way long enough to construct a reality out of what is real that to you has no problems? Sounds like a longshot. This question doesn't require you to believe there are no problems, it only makes it so. Of course, that's totally insane. So if you define your life by problems, how would you define your life once there are no problems left to overcome?
I think your logic is profound, but a bit buggy. In life there are problems, but not in this question. In this question, you are alive and have no problems. What do you do with it?
Good answers so far, but the rabbit-hole goes much deeper.
@HH - The "why the question" answer is really pretty simple. People spend a lot of time saying they are preparing for an event which at its logical end is best described right where my hypothetical lands. For some it is the afterlife, for some it is retirement, for some it is the pinnacle of fame or richness or technological advancement 10,000 years in the future.
Some say happiness and wealth are not dependent, but why is that? Logically, because of what you already said - we are wired for problem solving. I think cognition is based on differentiation, not specifically problems as you imply, but problems create motivation. If you have a treasure map you get so excited about finding the treasure that you follow the map. But what is the treasure?
What happens when all of the problems are solved? We have shorthand for this, and it's called "happily ever after". But what does that really mean? What is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? I am an Engineer, but even to me these are still important questions. And they are to you too. So you really think I am hurting Philosophy's image?
Improvement comes from hardships.
In the Natural world this means evolution happens in order to adapt to a different environment or to gain the abilities needed to survive.
In our day to day lives it means getting what you need to overcome certain situation.
Imagine a professional football team playing in a junior league against 13 year old kids. The professional team would have no problem winning and as a result would never train really hard or develop any new strategies, they don't need it, they just win.
I would again assert that a problem is purely subjective; in which case believing you have no problems literally means you have no problems. Certainly people can trick themselves - and belief is a complicated subject, but on a superficial level, that is how I see it.
Our lives aren't defined by problems, but problems are part of what define our lives. Did I say that right? Obviously our life would be different; very, very different. But I'm not certain problems are essential to the purpose, enjoyment, or the experience of life.
I find it hard to discuss something that has literally no pragmatic implications (as I said I do not look forward to anything; not a future career, wealth, afterlife, etc) so I am not striving for any "steady state", nor am I particularly trying to stablize the one that I may or may not be in.
Edit: Depending on the way you're using "problem" the question may or may not be able to be asked. In some ways the question could be paradoxical if you assume having no problems is a problem. But it's not impossible to suppose a human with no problems, if you just impose some conditions.
I dunno, chill out probably.
@Ahasver & HH: That wouldn't happen, because those would be problems.
@darklightz: What use is improvement for the sole sake of improvement? Stagnant complacency should be valued if we're guaranteed to be problemless.
Well, I can give you an example of something you would not necessarily need to seek out but motivates you to think about "stabilizing" or such things. Children.
The responsibility of raising children involves many factors that require you to do things that contribute to their growth. You don't want them to suffer, but you want them to overcome obstacles in order to grow. There are basic needs of food and shelter that need to be arranged. There is terminology and more advanced education to impose on them.
And so one day, those children will grow up and have kids of their own, and so on and so on, until some day far into the future, After science has taken us far as it can, and nature holds no new mysteries, our children will face the problem of not having any problems left to explore, because all the mysteries of the universe will have been unraveled.
That is one path to where this question is. There are others, but this is just one example. Don't get caught up on problems being subjective, this is all specific to you, and you are the only one that matters in the context of this question. Even if there are actually problems and you have deluded yourself as you keep suggesting, then what? How do you function, what is your role, how do you redefine the world? Whatever the frame of reference, the question is the same (Actually I have been thinking about frame of reference, but we haven't gotten there as a thread yet).
So if you find it hard to keep to the question, like I said originally, you minimalize the universe to just yourself and your own problems that suddenly vanish. How do you adjust? Where does your focus drift? Even for you with no motivation used to get hungry or cold, and now those things are in the past. What now?
@Biosphere - So suppose time does not stop or the universe does not cease. In fact, the world looks pretty darn familiar, except without all the prickly, painful, irritating, confounding, indecisive, and challenging hoops that you are used to jumping through. You are never running late and there is always enough time in the day. From Extremestan's comment above, I think he may just evolve into a tree. They are pretty good at chilling out. But everyone is different, and this thread's OP wants to capture how today's generation would treat a situation like that.
The only satisfactory answer I can find as it applies to me is that I would seek death, for a world without problems is inherently without interest to me.
No, they're not important to me. You misunderstood what I said.
We aren't "wired for problem solving." Cognition and problem-solving interdefine each other. The actuality of cognition is what makes "problems" and "problem solving" real things, and something like a converse is true.
If problems did not exist, cognition would not exist. But then I don't know what this question is asking about, as it does not at that point have anything to do with me or anything I could ever be, so I don't care.
My bad for even giving a reply to the question; that would make it unclear that my objection was one of paradox.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Overall, I believe the entire reality of "no problems" would be beyond what humans could grasp. It can never be achieved by man because man is the problem. We are mortal, we make mistakes, we have never-expanding appetites, and it is impossible to satisfy us. We could probably invent a hypothetical situation when we're all happy and satisfied, but every time we think it through, there would be no way that it may exist. The only way for a hypothetical world of "no problems" to exist would be in a world where great changes are made upon humans, in which case, we wouldn't have human qualities at all.
Insanity is not a problem. It's a state of mind. The only way for there to be an absence of all problems is for that person to believe there is an absence of all problems.
Insanity is a problem because society deemed it so. Simply put, problems will only go away by changin what society calls a problem. To say there are no problems signifies a deep mental problem in that person.
No happy, no sad, just numb which really isn't living
Basically u can't get rid of one side of a coin and expect the other to still be there. Every feeling has an opposite feeling that it is directly connected to and so do problems and solutions. I would probably just kill myself if there were no problems because any meaning in life would be gone.
Thanks to Magus of the Sheep at Scuttlemutt Productions for the best ever sig.
Conflict is important because it drove every biological process that ever was or is or will be. Conflict also drives every nonbiological process, so that's just that.
A better question would be, "What if there were no suffering?" That could be addressed better, I think. We could always conflict rationally, just never get to the point where things like the Holocaust happen.
Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
now begins the thousand years of REIGN OF BLOOD!
Perhaps a problemless world would have no sentient life, but otherwise the question seems completely impossbile to comprehend. Anything can be considered a problem, depending on the perspective.
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21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Noone else in this thread has gotten this far, yet. Congratulations. You have stopped attacking the question, and come to the correct conclusion. A lot of others have figured that they should stop existing by some means or other, but realistically, that's not going to happen.
And it is interesting that we have already reached a stage where we invent fake problems all the time. This is what I was referring to when I was writing about happiness not necessarily being related to wealth, for example. We try to compensate for the problems that we have already overcome in order to add some element of happiness to our life. Crazy, isn't it?
But where will this lead? Say we reach the point where we have exponentially dropped our problems to near 0, or even 0, then do you just strap yourself into the Matrix? Once there are no mysteries left, how do we place value on our existence? Who will we become as a society?
Many people haven't been willing to get past rigid semantics, and just imagine that a time will exist when eventually they'll become intelligent enough to wipe out their problems, simply through understanding them.
But some of us, at least, are driven to solve problems, and what will happen the first time there is a shortage? Our we are down to one big problem left (we think at the time) and everyone is working at the same time to solve it? What happens when it is solved and there are no problems left to replace it?
See, problems can be labeled a commodity when they become scarce. The value of solving the problem increases, and the economy will shift to the problem solving type as the popular focus is placed there, much like it is to Pharmaceuticals or Oil today. What will our minds be like? Will they be completely and utterly bent on solving the last problem, with disregard for everything else?
Right now, and assuredly for some time to come, there will be plenty of problems to go around, and everyone can choose their own life (unless they have problems where they can't). You can be a doctor, lawyer, or scientist, for example. Eventually, doctors and scientists are no longer necessary because all the problems that made them necessary went away. So everyone is a lawyer. Do you see where this is going? I'm hoping some of you can imagine what our lives will be like then, and give me your thoughts.