I really don't think Jace is great in a mill deck...yes his ultimate is, but he's usually long gone by that time (in our meta anyway).
Well.... unlike most people, I don't run him for his megaultrawtf effect. That is simply a bonus. I run him for early card draw and get just those few cards out of their deck...
Induce Paranoia might be OK if you want some hard countering.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 judge
"You told me why you hate magic. You never asked why I hate the church. I'll tell you why. It's because you're closed-minded, intolerant, dogmatic, and most of all, you're amateurs." -- Jeff Grubb, The Gathering Dark
I think this would be faster and more consistant and you are not running the mill cards that are just bad. I will explain some of the cards that you do not run first Trapmaker's Snare are just more Archive Trap since it is your best mill card and can be played for free you should always want to play more and since it is an instant you can keep it in your hand and play it when the trigger is met you play it so they don't know that you have one. As for Grim Discovery it is for the only creature in the deck Hedron Crab with grim in your hand you won't care if they kill the crab and you can safely block with it so you don't die and it gets you a fetch land back too so it is almost an automatic mill 6 and that is much better then some of the other mill cards you are running.
Face a Zombie deck today... let's say it didn't end well... I would have won off of a Mind Funeral next turn if I didn't need to play a fetchland and pay a life -_-
Extirpate should be md.
Sadistic Sacrament is kinda meh - BBB is a little tricky and it only gets 3 cards. If you're really worried about specific cards and mill+extirpate isn't enough, cranial extraction is better since it gets any that would be in their hand.
Haunting Echoes is a maybe. 5cc is a bit slow, but it should pack a pretty decent punch when it goes off.
I think this would be faster and more consistant and you are not running the mill cards that are just bad. I will explain some of the cards that you do not run first Trapmaker's Snare are just more Archive Trap since it is your best mill card and can be played for free you should always want to play more and since it is an instant you can keep it in your hand and play it when the trigger is met you play it so they don't know that you have one. As for Grim Discovery it is for the only creature in the deck Hedron Crab with grim in your hand you won't care if they kill the crab and you can safely block with it so you don't die and it gets you a fetch land back too so it is almost an automatic mill 6 and that is much better then some of the other mill cards you are running.
Grim Discovery to return the only creature? Please tell me the punchline, because I don't get the joke. He has a small chance of drawing Hedron Crab in the first place, so why should he bother with another card specifically meant to interact with it? Why not add another blocker/miller?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Grim Discovery to return the only creature? Please tell me the punchline, because I don't get the joke. He has a small chance of drawing Hedron Crab in the first place, so why should he bother with another card specifically meant to interact with it? Why not add another blocker/miller?
This basically... what's good SB for Zombies? I'm not doing so hot against them ._.
i'm assuming he's talking about dredge, cause zombies as a regular strategy just doesn't do much. Ravenous Trap works, Extirpate, relic of progenitus, and tormod's crypt are all good choices
Ravenous Trap is amazing tech in the side for this deck. Stops all in red, dredge and emeria recursion, plus you can trigger it for free off of just about any of your mill cards, (the only one that wouldn't being drowner initiate).
Extirpate should definitely be main deck. It shuts down way too much to not be.
Echoes is extremely harsh, but shouldn't be MD'd for sure unless you think the tempo on it can be balanced.
You might also want Blue Meanie in the side as a secondary win con. Anything running blue should have at least one in the side imho.
Hilarious, not-very-serious SB possibility: Black Lawls. For when you just need that extra turn.
Looking forward to building this when i can afford 15 each for da Glimpses...
HB:4mana:H
Ninja edit:Big Question- Why aren't you considering Orb in any form? it's way less fragile than Grimoire Thief, starts eatting cards on your opponents next turn (instead of your own), and typically eats WAY more cards over time. Or, if you prefer to keep the Thief, It's much more painful and doesn't give nearly as many options as Mine.
Now, I understand it can be considered a control card, but considering it's legal and one of the best mill-tifacts ever printed, I think it deserves some level of consideration. And yes, it'll eat your deck too, but Cane, Reminisce and Bad Quest are all legal, in your colors and in your curve, so you could effectively balance it out if you go down that route. Which brings up another SB option, one typically better than trap: Tormod's Crypt.
Time Spiral gave Extended Mill a big leg up in the sideboard.
Why aren't you considering Mesmeric Orb in any form?
Mesmeric Orb wd be funny, perhaps w Gigadrowse for some much-needed defense. I just think fast decks wd eat this for lunch, but it is still worth working on; you just have to find a way to keep alive.
I shouldn't worry about milling yourself; it's unlikely.
PS Echoing Truth is a good answer for Zombie Tokens; clarify if you mean Dredge -- I hope you do.
You should think of this deck in something like "burn" deck, the burn deck doesnt interact too much against other decks, just throw burn to the face
This deck will throw milling at the face, I have made some minor testing and you could do some "sick" plays like
1turn: Hedron Crab
2turn: Hedron Crab, sac a Fetchland, play a Memory Sluice, you milled 20 cards
Maybe tryng cards that can make the decking more faster
Even you could try some sort of Turbo Fog deck in extended with Darkness and the card that makes the creatures 0/2, but I think that those cards are good in agro matchs
I wil try to test this main deck (sorry I don't know how to make card tags)
4 Hedron Crab
4 Drowner Initiate
4 Grimoire Thief
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Howling Mine
4 Memory Sluice
4 Tome Scour
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
I think the deck is bad in a competitive meta-game. Mill at this point is not viable in extended. The fact that people are asking how to beat zombies which is not a tier one or even two deck in the meta shows that either you are not playing against good decks and good players and therefore having success, or that you feel the deck is good and have not done adequte playtesting against the meta and feel like you can beat whatever deck you choose.
i'm assuming he's talking about dredge, cause zombies as a regular strategy just doesn't do much. Ravenous Trap works, Extirpate, relic of progenitus, and tormod's crypt are all good choices
Yes... dredge just felt like it went w/o saying... i'll test some of those SB
Ravenous Trap is amazing tech in the side for this deck. Stops all in red, dredge and emeria recursion, plus you can trigger it for free off of just about any of your mill cards, (the only one that wouldn't being drowner initiate).
Extirpate should definitely be main deck. It shuts down way too much to not be.
Echoes is extremely harsh, but shouldn't be MD'd for sure unless you think the tempo on it can be balanced.
You might also want Blue Meanie in the side as a secondary win con. Anything running blue should have at least one in the side imho.
Hilarious, not-very-serious SB possibility: Black Lawls. For when you just need that extra turn.
Looking forward to building this when i can afford 15 each for da Glimpses...
HB:4mana:H
Ninja edit:Big Question- Why aren't you considering Orb in any form? it's way less fragile than Grimoire Thief, starts eatting cards on your opponents next turn (instead of your own), and typically eats WAY more cards over time. Or, if you prefer to keep the Thief, It's much more painful and doesn't give nearly as many options as Mine.
Now, I understand it can be considered a control card, but considering it's legal and one of the best mill-tifacts ever printed, I think it deserves some level of consideration. And yes, it'll eat your deck too, but Cane, Reminisce and Bad Quest are all legal, in your colors and in your curve, so you could effectively balance it out if you go down that route. Which brings up another SB option, one typically better than trap: Tormod's Crypt.
Time Spiral gave Extended Mill a big leg up in the sideboard.
I like having a wall ON TOP of a miller. What to drop for Ex?
Sphinx is a definite side. And Orb is a nice idea. I'm not too worried about hitting my deck. They'll have a lot less cards than me anyway.
You should think of this deck in something like "burn" deck, the burn deck doesnt interact too much against other decks, just throw burn to the face
This deck will throw milling at the face, I have made some minor testing and you could do some "sick" plays like
1turn: Hedron Crab
2turn: Hedron Crab, sac a Fetchland, play a Memory Sluice, you milled 20 cards
Maybe tryng cards that can make the decking more faster
Even you could try some sort of Turbo Fog deck in extended with Darkness and the card that makes the creatures 0/2, but I think that those cards are good in agro matchs
I wil try to test this main deck (sorry I don't know how to make card tags)
I think the deck is bad in a competitive meta-game. Mill at this point is not viable in extended.
Wachu' Talkin' 'Bout Willis?
The fact that people are asking how to beat zombies which is not a tier one or even two deck in the meta shows that either you are not playing against good decks and good players and therefore having success, or that you feel the deck is good and have not done adequte playtesting against the meta and feel like you can beat whatever deck you choose.
Hello? Every deck has there bad match-ups. Zombies aren't T1 because they are slow(ish) and have somewhat mediocre creatures compared to the rest of the meta.
Well, 1) This deck SPEEDS THEM UP and 2) This doesn't have any of those meta creatures =/
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Howling Mine
4 Memory Sluice
4 Tome Scour
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
3 Ponder
2 Extirpate
2 Twincast
2 Ancestral Vision
4 Swamp
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Marsh Flats
I'm considering Mine... it gives the opponent more threats before me...
Maybe you could try something like Grimmoire Thief He will "mill" and can counter in a Pinch (It could make memory sluice more deadly)
And use more lands, with 24 you should be fine
-3 Wall of Frost
-2 Twincast
-3 Memory Erosion
-3 Jace (Jace is slow for Extended purposes)
+4 Grimmoire Thief
+4 Archive Trap
+2 Lands
+1 Drowner Initiate
The 2 extra lands could be fetches so you will maximise Hedron Crab use, also try to adding Watery Grave for better mana
Jace has been doing fine... but I can drop 1. Wall and Erosion are useless...
Is Counterspell Extended Legal?
Belltower Sphinx is a pretty decent blocker. He also runs Nemesis of Reason and declares him as an attacker to mill 10.
I really don't think Jace is great in a mill deck...yes his ultimate is, but he's usually long gone by that time (in our meta anyway).
Well.... unlike most people, I don't run him for his megaultrawtf effect. That is simply a bonus. I run him for early card draw and get just those few cards out of their deck...
Induce Paranoia might be OK if you want some hard countering.
"You told me why you hate magic. You never asked why I hate the church. I'll tell you why. It's because you're closed-minded, intolerant, dogmatic, and most of all, you're amateurs." -- Jeff Grubb, The Gathering Dark
Fixes:
-1 Jace
-3 Wall of Frost
-3 Memory Erosion
+3 Grimmoire Thief
+4 Archive Trap
EDIT: Again, is Counterspell legal in Extended?
4 Archive Trap
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mind Funeral
4 Trapmaker's Snare
4 Grim Discovery
4 Tome Scour
4 Twincast
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
4 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
Also a version with Sanity Grinding could be tried every spell does have at least U in it and you could fit two UUU cards(Sanity Grinding and Cryptic Command) and two UU cards(Archive Trap and Twincast) to up the U count.
Extirpate
Sadistic Sacrament
Haunting Echoes
Sadistic Sacrament is kinda meh - BBB is a little tricky and it only gets 3 cards. If you're really worried about specific cards and mill+extirpate isn't enough, cranial extraction is better since it gets any that would be in their hand.
Haunting Echoes is a maybe. 5cc is a bit slow, but it should pack a pretty decent punch when it goes off.
Trapmaker's Snare screams that you have Archive Trap in your hand, but it can also search for Needlebite Trap after SB.
Grim Discovery to return the only creature? Please tell me the punchline, because I don't get the joke. He has a small chance of drawing Hedron Crab in the first place, so why should he bother with another card specifically meant to interact with it? Why not add another blocker/miller?
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
This basically... what's good SB for Zombies? I'm not doing so hot against them ._.
Extirpate should definitely be main deck. It shuts down way too much to not be.
Echoes is extremely harsh, but shouldn't be MD'd for sure unless you think the tempo on it can be balanced.
You might also want Blue Meanie in the side as a secondary win con. Anything running blue should have at least one in the side imho.
Hilarious, not-very-serious SB possibility: Black Lawls. For when you just need that extra turn.
Looking forward to building this when i can afford 15 each for da Glimpses...
HB:4mana:H
Ninja edit: Big Question- Why aren't you considering Orb in any form? it's way less fragile than Grimoire Thief, starts eatting cards on your opponents next turn (instead of your own), and typically eats WAY more cards over time. Or, if you prefer to keep the Thief, It's much more painful and doesn't give nearly as many options as Mine.
Now, I understand it can be considered a control card, but considering it's legal and one of the best mill-tifacts ever printed, I think it deserves some level of consideration. And yes, it'll eat your deck too, but Cane, Reminisce and Bad Quest are all legal, in your colors and in your curve, so you could effectively balance it out if you go down that route. Which brings up another SB option, one typically better than trap: Tormod's Crypt.
Time Spiral gave Extended Mill a big leg up in the sideboard.
||Avatar/Banner by Me||
Mesmeric Orb wd be funny, perhaps w Gigadrowse for some much-needed defense. I just think fast decks wd eat this for lunch, but it is still worth working on; you just have to find a way to keep alive.
I shouldn't worry about milling yourself; it's unlikely.
PS Echoing Truth is a good answer for Zombie Tokens; clarify if you mean Dredge -- I hope you do.
J
This deck will throw milling at the face, I have made some minor testing and you could do some "sick" plays like
1turn: Hedron Crab
2turn: Hedron Crab, sac a Fetchland, play a Memory Sluice, you milled 20 cards
Maybe tryng cards that can make the decking more faster
Even you could try some sort of Turbo Fog deck in extended with Darkness and the card that makes the creatures 0/2, but I think that those cards are good in agro matchs
I wil try to test this main deck (sorry I don't know how to make card tags)
4 Hedron Crab
4 Drowner Initiate
4 Grimoire Thief
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Howling Mine
4 Memory Sluice
4 Tome Scour
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
7 Island
4 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
In this build I think that Drowner Initiate is the worst card of all, testing will tell me if it's worth, just in case he can block a goyf
Someone has more decklists?
Regards
Both seem just a bit meh to me :|
Yes... dredge just felt like it went w/o saying... i'll test some of those SB
I like having a wall ON TOP of a miller. What to drop for Ex?
Sphinx is a definite side. And Orb is a nice idea. I'm not too worried about hitting my deck. They'll have a lot less cards than me anyway.
Drowner is pro. It's like Thief... a wall and a milling built in one...
Wachu' Talkin' 'Bout Willis?
Hello? Every deck has there bad match-ups. Zombies aren't T1 because they are slow(ish) and have somewhat mediocre creatures compared to the rest of the meta.
Well, 1) This deck SPEEDS THEM UP and 2) This doesn't have any of those meta creatures =/