1) Woot, MaRo printed my letter (the one re: Antoine Ruel's card)!
2) I'm fairly sad to see the Invitational go. Sure, it doesn't directly affect me, but it was still pretty cool, and something that got people interested in those playing the game, in addition to the game itself. Granted, the Pro Tour arguably serves that purpose, but I still liked the Invitational, dammit.
Oh well, I care less about the Invitational than I do/did about States. Has WotC ever said anything definitive about the future of States, by the way, one way or another? I've heard some rumors at my card shop, but those are just rumors.
The WPN cocktail party at Nationals said a lot about States coming back. So, there's strong rumors. However, until I see it scheduled, I will be cautious.
I can understand why Wotc are making cuts, but what I can't understand is why they are making cuts that save them little to no money. Was the Invitational really that expensive? Doubtful.
The invitational was VERY expensive. Flights, Hotels, Food, etc. and all for a small, 16 man tournament.
Well, I'm certain that the crappy economy has had an effect on Magic's sales... personally, I have had to abstain from buying two booster boxes in the last half-year due to fuel prices.
If they figure they can make any sort of meaningful difference by cutting the invitational, then fine. But I really do hope the game isn't starting to die.
I don't think it's dying, I think it's just being refocused and trimmed because of the economy. Sales are down, period. If you can't convince the players to spend more, convince more players to spend something.
It isn't good for the health of the game to have so many different invitation-only tournaments. Worlds should be the only tournament that is invitation-only.
I simply don't get it. I understand when MaRo says "There was more of an outcry over the sixth edition rules, etc", and indeed that all turned out fine, but this is pure and simple a cut. Is the game suffering from a financial crisis? How COULD it be? This is the kind of stuff I would've expected during Kamigawa block, the worst magic block I've ever witnessed (am I the only person who thought every piece of artwork sucked in that block? at least Mercadian Masques had a somewhat cool theme)...
I think the thing I liked the best about the invitational was that it showed the best players in the world playing, basically, casual formats. It provided a connection to those players, and gave inspiration for new formats like Auctions and bizarre draft formats. I know my store definitely had Auction tournaments based on the Invitational, and they were a ton of fun. And it was just fun to watch the coverage of it, as the players always had tons of personality and the games were much more unusual.
It isn't good for the health of the game to have so many different invitation-only tournaments. Worlds should be the only tournament that is invitation-only.
well, the Invitational was 'invitation only' just in case you hadnt figured it out by the name. But i hear ya. States and champs were the highest level most Grass Roots players could hope for.
I agree that the types of cuts WOTC is making, do seem to be contrarey to the whole idea of grass roots play. Like, if they were trying to actively promote casual and grass roots play, wouldn't it make sense to have MORE fun and popular promotional tournaments like Champs, JSS, and Invitational? I have to say, letting players submit their card ideas where they will actually get to be a part of the game, is a big selling point. Who doesn't love playing Bob, or Finkel, or Pikula?
An aside: I remember Spikes going ballistic about the WPN saying it would favor the nooby players. Well, now those nooby players have NO non-PTQ options for sanctioned play. Beyond FNM there is nothing left. No states, no Champs, no JSS. So they don't have it so rosy now, eh. Everybody gets hurt when grass roots sanctioned events get cut.
What gets cut next, Hasbro? YMTC? Is sparing a tiny bit of ink and working with artists to make a player's face fit into a wizard outfit too much to spare?
I predict that by the end of the year, WotC will announce the abolishing of the Pro Tour. Think about these things:
1) The shift to an emphasis on the grassroots player. The entire point of the Pro Tour was to promote the competitive nature of Magic and "playing at the next level." Now that they are turning the game more toward the casual player, the Pro Tour is the antithesis of their direction.
2) Consider the coverage of Worlds 2007. The lack of updates, no coverage of the side events - including the biggest side event prize ever - and the commentary goofs. Frankly, it seemed like the people just didn't care anymore. Now when you factor in that it was announced at the end of Worlds the Pro Level changes for 2008 and the rationale that budgets were still being figured, how can you not suspect that abolishing the Pro Tour at the end of 2007 Worlds was not on the table up to the last day?
3) States and Champs got the axe and the person who engineered the program stated explicitly that while he did not like the fact that Sates/Champs didn't succeed in encouraging casual players to play in big tournaments, he was not sad at all about cutting those tournaments.
I sent MaRo an e-mail asking flat-out if the Pro Tour's ending was on the table. We'll see what response we get.
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Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people. Guns just make them move really, really fast.
I loved invitationals, was following all of them closely for many years. Very sad to see them go...
WotC/Hasbro are becoming more and more greedy, they cut on everything they can, from all kinds of events to the number of cards in sets (less artwork and playtesting required for smaller sets). And how about adding something entirely new to the game to enchance the experience? We will get... Mythic Rares to suck even more money from us. QQ.
I can understand why Wotc are making cuts, but what I can't understand is why they are making cuts that save them little to no money. Was the Invitational really that expensive? Doubtful.
No but big bosses dont care and see it as a drain of funds on 10-20 people *take into account staff and players alike*
No but big bosses dont care and see it as a drain of funds on 10-20 people *take into account staff and players alike*
Thus "every little bit helps"
This is nothing more than a fancy way to say "Hasbro are a bunch of greedy bastards". And tbh, I would bet the Invitational makes them money indirectly. It introduces more formats to more casual groups and sparks/resparks their interest in buying and playing Magic. It also was clearly a driving motivator of some tournament players such as Lesurgo posted a few pages back. I myself had dreamed about going to the invitational for the same reasons as Gavin did and am very disappointed that the opportunity is gone, likely for good.
I can understand(not sympathize) Hasbro's wants to cut back and save money, but even from a business aspect they are doing a very poor job. Cutting things that net them more money over time is not a good way to run something long term like Magic has been. If anything, they should be creating more events and professionalizing more formats.
effectively WOTC is now running MTG like a short term fad AKA pokemon/chaotic etc. Rather than like a long term business model.
Also considering that PTQs have double this year in size across the states im hopeful we wont see an end to it... if we do though expect singles to get cheap and magic to go under relatively quick.
This is nothing more than a fancy way to say "Hasbro are a bunch of greedy bastards". And tbh, I would bet the Invitational makes them money indirectly. It introduces more formats to more casual groups and sparks/resparks their interest in buying and playing Magic. It also was clearly a driving motivator of some tournament players such as Lesurgo posted a few pages back. I myself had dreamed about going to the invitational for the same reasons as Gavin did and am very disappointed that the opportunity is gone, likely for good.
I can understand(not sympathize) Hasbro's wants to cut back and save money, but even from a business aspect they are doing a very poor job. Cutting things that net them more money over time is not a good way to run something long term like Magic has been. If anything, they should be creating more events and professionalizing more formats.
The tl;dr is basically that Hasbro sucks.
Here, Here. I don't think magic is dying yet, but i think Hasbro keeps pushing the knife closer and closer to the heart of magic (so to speak).
wow dude, you have no idea what you are talking about it. Go take a look at the American economy and how well Hasbro has done financially in the past year (large toy recall in Dec, oil prices are up = cost to make toys up). Ignorance is the worst when people just blurt out stuff
I predict that by the end of the year, WotC will announce the abolishing of the Pro Tour.
Again, Chicken Little is worried the sky is falling. If it was so bad, we would not have had 1100+ ppl attend the GP in indy or even 600 in the poorly located Denver GP.
Here, Here. I don't think magic is dying yet, but i think Hasbro keeps pushing the knife closer and closer to the heart of magic (so to speak).
Hasbro isn't trying to kill magic, they're trying to stay alive as a company.
The american economy sucks right now and everything is more expensive, on top of the fact that people don't have as much money for stuff like magic (see: gasoline) it's no wonder hasbro has to cut money from stuff like the invitational.
Don't get me wrong, i think it sucks just as much as you, but its not like hasbro is stabbing wizards or anything, they're doing what they gotta do, and frankly i'm happy that they cut the invitational and not GP's.
Also Americans should be happy, you guys are getting states back!
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
Also Americans should be happy, you guys are getting states back!
Sadly most players on this site that are American will not see the light side of things and understand the money issues going on and only see whats 2 ft in front of them. They Only see CUTS and many CUTS. Not see why the cuts are happening and an overview of the situation. Hell I could say and more then likely be right that most of the American players on this side Or hell most Americans dont understand the position we are all in.
Surprisingly the invitational does cost a lot of money to put on. It required convention center floor space, it required weeks of web content to promote the election of players that get to go. I required bandwidth for web content, and it required lots of paid employee time to organize, cover, promote, and run the event. If I had to guess I would say the invitational costs over a million dollars to run. Its an event that is entirely product promotional that generates 0 actual revenue. I can see them cutting something like that before they cut states. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pro Tour was cut for a year or more, making Nationals/Worlds the only high level play. It has less to do with a poor US economy and more to do with a poor Hasbro. The Best thing a player can do right now is to buy packs, lots of them. Really buying product is the best way to actively promote something like this turning around.
This one hurt me a little on the inside to read. Oh, I know there are reasons why they'd need/think to let the Invitational go. But it smarts nonetheless.
However, maybe we can't get mad at Wizards for taking an action we, as players, might have prompted. After the hell raised last with Evan Erwin earning the Storyteller Vote (and all the power to him), do you think there were some people at Wizards who thought that the Invitational might not mean to us what it means to them? To a casual player it might mean nothing or it might be a curiousity, an event that happens once a year that is part of the game's tradition. To one group of pros it was a serious All-Star tournament, to others a time to show off Magic's strong community and proud tradition.
So, if they are spending a whole ton of money that is very hard to market to anyone except for that smaller percentage of professional players, and a large amount of them don't see the spirit of the Invitation the way Wizards wants them to, as a celebration of community and an intellectual passion, how much would they want to keep it when they are trying to branch towards a more casual playerbase? I would not doubt that a good chunk of the people that really love the game, the R&D and all those that put time into making it great, made a strong case for why the Invitation should not be cut. But Wizards is a company, first and foremost, business can be a cruel mistress.
And I was so hoping Chapin would get sent to the Invitational this year. His antics of late bring a smile to my face.
Surprisingly the invitational does cost a lot of money to put on. It required convention center floor space, it required weeks of web content to promote the election of players that get to go. I required bandwidth for web content, and it required lots of paid employee time to organize, cover, promote, and run the event. If I had to guess I would say the invitational costs over a million dollars to run.
This actually made me laugh out loud. I assure you, the last thing the Invi costed was a million bucks.
However, $100k is probably not out of the question. Regardless, it came from the marketing budget, and its impact is severely difficult to track (i.e. it's hard for the marketing dept to say "the Invi drove $X,000 worth of sales this year"), and while painful to lose (I'll have more on this in the show), I'm sure we'll see it come back soon.
I get the real feeling we're in a "weather down and wait for the storm to pass" mode in Magic right now. Weather the cuts, the cutbacks, and the losses. Oil prices will lower, WotC will have paid for the sins of Dreamblade and Hecatomb, and Magic will prosper once again.
As much as I am not ever really agree with a SCG employee save for a few writers, misterorange is correct and people need to stop worrying about the bad and see the good..
Not to cherry-pick, or go off-topic, but do you really believe that?
As for the Invitational, as someone that doesn't follow Magic very closely (I didn't know about some of the cuts mentioned here) I think it is pretty unfortunate. I always enjoyed the Invitational and thought it was one of the more interesting formats Wizards had. But, alas, I understand the reasoning.
Perhaps the answer is non-yearly? Perhaps every two, maybe even four years? You get all of the World and Player of the Years from that period and find another manner for selecting the rest? It would make the honor of winning even greater.
They are already down near 20% from their high...with a slower travel season coming no reason they dont keep dropping...do some research before you comment on things
I've never been one to run around acting like the sky was falling, but all of these cuts do not bode well for Magic. Where there's smoke...
Honestly, Magic has such a strong following that I believe it would live on even without new cards being printed (should it come to that), but still...
They are already down near 20% from their high...with a slower travel season coming no reason they dont keep dropping...do some research before you comment on things
If you really think that gas will EVER be back down to below 2 dollars a barrel or even close to it, your deluding yourself... Too many huge companies figured out that DAMN people will pay $4 for gas and we can make 11.7 billion dollars in 3 monthes.. thats $1500 a SECOND.. and us few companies (exxon, shell, BP ect) have a monoply on selling gas in the US... SWEET..
(i mean have you EVER seen a gas station that always sells gas at a quarter less than its competiors? no and you never will)
Anyway back to the magic thing..
If wizards is having a cash flow problem, I can understand that.. What I can't understand is why they are chosing to cancel events that make the game of magic what it is... If wizards is only going to offer what's availabe on the "wizards play network" http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/wpn/main
next year, then i might as well quit magic now, because what's offered is not sufficient enough for me to keep playing.
For much of the past year, Hasbro (HAS) has been on a tear. Its stock is up 50% since January. And thanks to everything from its roaring Transformers line to its cuddly Littlest Pet Shop franchise, the toymaker posted a record $330 million profit in 2007, on sales of $3.8 billion.
But Hasbro goofed with how it handled Scrabulous, a digital knockoff of its Scrabble board game on Facebook. The Pawtucket (R.I.) manufacturer not only stood idle as Scrabulous drew a half-million daily players to the social networking site over the past year. On July 30, after suing the two Indian brothers behind it and forcing them to pull it down, Hasbro put up a clunky, slower replacement. The result: howls of protest from the audience it was hoping to attract. "Hasbro just got greedy," fumes Rhonda Talbot, a Los Angeles Scrabulous fan. "If they weren't clever enough to create a Scrabulous, they don't deserve the players."
So, if Hasbro is doing so well financially, to the tune of record sales even...then why all the cuts?
As I've been saying all along, this whole thing just spells G-R-E-E-D to me.
They are already down near 20% from their high...with a slower travel season coming no reason they dont keep dropping...do some research before you comment on things
I'm well aware of the recent cool-down in prices, but I think I have actually done more research than you: once peak is reached a decline in consumption is expected but over longer periods a decrease in consumption will not prevent an increase in prices. Across the next three years, we will hit six if not seven dollars a gallon. Perhaps increases are over for this summer, but not next. And just wait and see what happens if we see any serious hurricane action in the Gulf.
Spam warning down there if necessary, but I defend myself from accusations of ignorance.
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The GJ way path to no lynching:
The WPN cocktail party at Nationals said a lot about States coming back. So, there's strong rumors. However, until I see it scheduled, I will be cautious.
The invitational was VERY expensive. Flights, Hotels, Food, etc. and all for a small, 16 man tournament.
I don't think it's dying, I think it's just being refocused and trimmed because of the economy. Sales are down, period. If you can't convince the players to spend more, convince more players to spend something.
Meh, it was okay. It really was a niche event, though, and didn't affect that many players/spectators.
You should read them.
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well, the Invitational was 'invitation only' just in case you hadnt figured it out by the name. But i hear ya. States and champs were the highest level most Grass Roots players could hope for.
I agree that the types of cuts WOTC is making, do seem to be contrarey to the whole idea of grass roots play. Like, if they were trying to actively promote casual and grass roots play, wouldn't it make sense to have MORE fun and popular promotional tournaments like Champs, JSS, and Invitational? I have to say, letting players submit their card ideas where they will actually get to be a part of the game, is a big selling point. Who doesn't love playing Bob, or Finkel, or Pikula?
An aside: I remember Spikes going ballistic about the WPN saying it would favor the nooby players. Well, now those nooby players have NO non-PTQ options for sanctioned play. Beyond FNM there is nothing left. No states, no Champs, no JSS. So they don't have it so rosy now, eh. Everybody gets hurt when grass roots sanctioned events get cut.
What gets cut next, Hasbro? YMTC? Is sparing a tiny bit of ink and working with artists to make a player's face fit into a wizard outfit too much to spare?
1) The shift to an emphasis on the grassroots player. The entire point of the Pro Tour was to promote the competitive nature of Magic and "playing at the next level." Now that they are turning the game more toward the casual player, the Pro Tour is the antithesis of their direction.
2) Consider the coverage of Worlds 2007. The lack of updates, no coverage of the side events - including the biggest side event prize ever - and the commentary goofs. Frankly, it seemed like the people just didn't care anymore. Now when you factor in that it was announced at the end of Worlds the Pro Level changes for 2008 and the rationale that budgets were still being figured, how can you not suspect that abolishing the Pro Tour at the end of 2007 Worlds was not on the table up to the last day?
3) States and Champs got the axe and the person who engineered the program stated explicitly that while he did not like the fact that Sates/Champs didn't succeed in encouraging casual players to play in big tournaments, he was not sad at all about cutting those tournaments.
I sent MaRo an e-mail asking flat-out if the Pro Tour's ending was on the table. We'll see what response we get.
WotC/Hasbro are becoming more and more greedy, they cut on everything they can, from all kinds of events to the number of cards in sets (less artwork and playtesting required for smaller sets). And how about adding something entirely new to the game to enchance the experience? We will get... Mythic Rares to suck even more money from us. QQ.
No but big bosses dont care and see it as a drain of funds on 10-20 people *take into account staff and players alike*
Thus "every little bit helps"
I can understand(not sympathize) Hasbro's wants to cut back and save money, but even from a business aspect they are doing a very poor job. Cutting things that net them more money over time is not a good way to run something long term like Magic has been. If anything, they should be creating more events and professionalizing more formats.
The tl;dr is basically that Hasbro sucks.
techoverrated.Also considering that PTQs have double this year in size across the states im hopeful we wont see an end to it... if we do though expect singles to get cheap and magic to go under relatively quick.
Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
Here, Here. I don't think magic is dying yet, but i think Hasbro keeps pushing the knife closer and closer to the heart of magic (so to speak).
The GJ way path to no lynching:
wow dude, you have no idea what you are talking about it. Go take a look at the American economy and how well Hasbro has done financially in the past year (large toy recall in Dec, oil prices are up = cost to make toys up). Ignorance is the worst when people just blurt out stuff
Yep, exactly, since you were obviously going to play in it.
The game doesnt have to be, just the parent company
Again, Chicken Little is worried the sky is falling. If it was so bad, we would not have had 1100+ ppl attend the GP in indy or even 600 in the poorly located Denver GP.
Hasbro isn't trying to kill magic, they're trying to stay alive as a company.
The american economy sucks right now and everything is more expensive, on top of the fact that people don't have as much money for stuff like magic (see: gasoline) it's no wonder hasbro has to cut money from stuff like the invitational.
Don't get me wrong, i think it sucks just as much as you, but its not like hasbro is stabbing wizards or anything, they're doing what they gotta do, and frankly i'm happy that they cut the invitational and not GP's.
Also Americans should be happy, you guys are getting states back!
Sadly most players on this site that are American will not see the light side of things and understand the money issues going on and only see whats 2 ft in front of them. They Only see CUTS and many CUTS. Not see why the cuts are happening and an overview of the situation. Hell I could say and more then likely be right that most of the American players on this side Or hell most Americans dont understand the position we are all in.
However, maybe we can't get mad at Wizards for taking an action we, as players, might have prompted. After the hell raised last with Evan Erwin earning the Storyteller Vote (and all the power to him), do you think there were some people at Wizards who thought that the Invitational might not mean to us what it means to them? To a casual player it might mean nothing or it might be a curiousity, an event that happens once a year that is part of the game's tradition. To one group of pros it was a serious All-Star tournament, to others a time to show off Magic's strong community and proud tradition.
So, if they are spending a whole ton of money that is very hard to market to anyone except for that smaller percentage of professional players, and a large amount of them don't see the spirit of the Invitation the way Wizards wants them to, as a celebration of community and an intellectual passion, how much would they want to keep it when they are trying to branch towards a more casual playerbase? I would not doubt that a good chunk of the people that really love the game, the R&D and all those that put time into making it great, made a strong case for why the Invitation should not be cut. But Wizards is a company, first and foremost, business can be a cruel mistress.
And I was so hoping Chapin would get sent to the Invitational this year. His antics of late bring a smile to my face.
This actually made me laugh out loud. I assure you, the last thing the Invi costed was a million bucks.
However, $100k is probably not out of the question. Regardless, it came from the marketing budget, and its impact is severely difficult to track (i.e. it's hard for the marketing dept to say "the Invi drove $X,000 worth of sales this year"), and while painful to lose (I'll have more on this in the show), I'm sure we'll see it come back soon.
I get the real feeling we're in a "weather down and wait for the storm to pass" mode in Magic right now. Weather the cuts, the cutbacks, and the losses. Oil prices will lower, WotC will have paid for the sins of Dreamblade and Hecatomb, and Magic will prosper once again.
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Not to cherry-pick, or go off-topic, but do you really believe that?
As for the Invitational, as someone that doesn't follow Magic very closely (I didn't know about some of the cuts mentioned here) I think it is pretty unfortunate. I always enjoyed the Invitational and thought it was one of the more interesting formats Wizards had. But, alas, I understand the reasoning.
Perhaps the answer is non-yearly? Perhaps every two, maybe even four years? You get all of the World and Player of the Years from that period and find another manner for selecting the rest? It would make the honor of winning even greater.
Honestly, Magic has such a strong following that I believe it would live on even without new cards being printed (should it come to that), but still...
If you really think that gas will EVER be back down to below 2 dollars a barrel or even close to it, your deluding yourself... Too many huge companies figured out that DAMN people will pay $4 for gas and we can make 11.7 billion dollars in 3 monthes.. thats $1500 a SECOND.. and us few companies (exxon, shell, BP ect) have a monoply on selling gas in the US... SWEET..
(i mean have you EVER seen a gas station that always sells gas at a quarter less than its competiors? no and you never will)
Anyway back to the magic thing..
If wizards is having a cash flow problem, I can understand that.. What I can't understand is why they are chosing to cancel events that make the game of magic what it is... If wizards is only going to offer what's availabe on the "wizards play network"
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/wpn/main
next year, then i might as well quit magic now, because what's offered is not sufficient enough for me to keep playing.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_33/b4096034648201.htm?chan=magazine+channel_news
So, if Hasbro is doing so well financially, to the tune of record sales even...then why all the cuts?
As I've been saying all along, this whole thing just spells G-R-E-E-D to me.
I'm well aware of the recent cool-down in prices, but I think I have actually done more research than you: once peak is reached a decline in consumption is expected but over longer periods a decrease in consumption will not prevent an increase in prices. Across the next three years, we will hit six if not seven dollars a gallon. Perhaps increases are over for this summer, but not next. And just wait and see what happens if we see any serious hurricane action in the Gulf.