Which do you think is the best? I'm a fan of Orzhov Descendant personally, as Descendant of Kiyomaro is simply a fantastic card overall. It's also the most consistent of the posted decks, with tons of 4-ofs.
The Tallowisp deck is cute, but in testing normal BW aggro was just better. Where Tallowisp is doing all these cute things and tricks, BW aggro is simply playing cards that wreck you and smash face.
Descendant is a house. I've been playing the deck since before Honolulu, and its definately pretty nuts. One change I made is I added 3x Peace of Mind to thesideboard to combat Owl because if you resolve it thats usually game unless they string something amazing like trips Exhaustion or such, and even then you can still win.
The Tallowisp deck is cute, but in testing normal BW aggro was just better. Where Tallowisp is doing all these cute things and tricks, BW aggro is simply playing cards that wreck you and smash face.
Descendant is a house. I've been playing the deck since before Honolulu, and its definately pretty nuts. One change I made is I added 3x Peace of Mind to thesideboard to combat Owl because if you resolve it thats usually game unless they string something amazing like trips Exhaustion or such, and even then you can still win.
Peace of mind does seem like the best side card against owl right now but I think they might start siding needle if mind gets played a lot.
EDIT: Ghost Dad makes me chuckle.
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It's funny because innocent people that were trying to pay the bills for their families were brutally murdered.
If your really worried about them needling Peace of Mind you can just run Uba Mask, but the life gain of Peace is nice plus its effective against randomness like red burn or whatever you might face round 1 of FNM.
Orzhov Agro is really good, probably the best Agro-Control deck in the format, where RG/Zoo is the best Agro and Greater Gifts is the best Control. I think versions with Rusalka and Teysa are the best, Rusalka gives a 1 drop that gives you a way to control Agro, a sac option for Teysa, and a way to kill off your Bob. Teysa is kinda amazing. A 2/3 for 3 is decent, but when you run 15-16 Black creatures that cost 2 or less, you can over extend in many Control matches, like Gifts and Wildfire.
It leaves me with 4 open spots, which I test 3 of with Shrieking Grotesque, Paladin en-Vec, and Descendant of Kiyomaro. The last spot I test between Ink-Eyes and a fourth Hand.
You probably dont want to run 4 Ghost Council though, because drawing too many and having one in play will just clog up your hand with dead cards. You also dont want to roll it of Bob too often. Instead, reduce it by 1 or 2, which opens up another two slots. Im still trying to include Teysa in my build, but mine is more of a WW approach with Savannah lions and Isamaru. Ill post my list in just a bit - I have to find it again.
Also, have some builds straight up dropped Hypnotic Spectre?
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3 damage for 2 mana; it’s like playing 8 Lightning Helixes, except 4 of them have AIDS.
Drawing a Council is so important tho, especially in the mirror. If I have another Council in hand, I can trade the one I have on the table as well, and just not slide it out.
I have been testing with COP:Red, and it has been very good against Owl and Zoo. If it resolves you usally win against Owl...because it takes a pretty long time for Netsuke to kill you. Also, I run Descendent as a 2-of and 2 in the board, because against a lot of decks it does nothing.
Descendant is still a house in this deck, regularly stopping Grull Aggro's smaller beaters. Once the fat hits the table, usually I have Council out or have spot removal for it.
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3 damage for 2 mana; it’s like playing 8 Lightning Helixes, except 4 of them have AIDS.
I'm beginning to prefer Descendant over Paladin. Paladin en-Vec is only truly relevant in the agro matches, as control doesn't stop you with Black or Red ground creatures. Descendant can also be supierer in many of the agro matches. Descendant also survives Pyroclasm like Paladin, but can be a larger creature and gain life.
BW Agro is an incredibly flexible deck, and as such, builds are going to vary greatly. You need to have early defense against Zoo/RG like Hand of Cruelty, Paladin en-Vec, or Descendant of Kiyomaro or you'll just roll over most games. The sideboard helps greatly tho, RG rolls over to Seize the Soul most of the time.
The last slot is an interesting one, as I could be running Faith's Fetters, Execute, Slay, Keening Banshee, or Orzhov Pontiff in that slot. Which one is the best?
Seize the Soul is for Eminent Domain, so that's not an option.
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I have to disagree with Descendent over Paladin. I prefer Paladin I think. While I agree that Descendent is very good, Paladin is very hard to remove, and is AMAZING in the mirror, which there is alot of.
I would have to go more towards Fetters. Last gasp cant take out everything, and you can only run 4 mortify in your deck. Fetters stops annoying angels, elephant clerics, and the like. Much more useable, also much slower, but much more useable.
Fetters is also great against BW control, because it can negate debtor's knell by "killing" their yosei/kokusho/angel of despair so it doesnt go to the grave so it can't be reanimated. It also shuts down greater good, and makes legendary creatures really bad.
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Just look at these four lists from the top 32 of PT: Honolulu
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
4 Orzhov Basilica
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Eiganjo Castle
6 Swamp
2 Plains
Creatures
4 Plagued Rusalka
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Dark Confidant
3 Hand of Cruelty
2 Shrieking Grotesque
2 Paladin en-Vec
3 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
4 Ghost Council of Orzhova
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Castigate
3 Mortify
2 Terashi's Grasp
1 Descendant of Kiyomaro
2 Distress
2 Cranial Extraction
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Seize the Soul
2 Slay
4 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
5 Plains
8 Swamp
Creatures
3 Savannah Lions
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Dark Confidant
4 Shrieking Grotesque
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
2 Hand of Cruelty
1 Kami of Ancient Law
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Mortify
2 Faith's Fetters
4 Castigate
3 Last Gasp
2 Manriki-Gusari
2 Otherworldly Journey
1 Nekrataal
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Kami of Ancient Law
4 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Plains
9 Swamp
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Shrieking Grotesque
3 Ghost Council of Orzhova
2 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4 Descendant of Kiyomaro
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Mortify
4 Last Gasp
2 Nekrataal
2 Hand of Cruelty
3 Blackmail
4 Cranial Extraction
4 Pithing Needle
4 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
6 Plains
6 Swamp
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Tomb of Urami
Creatures
4 Tallowisp
4 Dark Confidant
3 Kami of Ancient Law
4 Ghost Council of Orzhova
2 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
3 Plagued Rusalka
4 Thief of Hope
3 Pillory of the Sleepless
1 Indomitable Will
1 Strands of Undeath
4 Sickening Shoal
4 Shining Shoal
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Blessed Breath
2 Persecute
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pithing Needle
1 Kami of Ancient Law
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Enfeeblement
1 Pillory of the Sleepless
Which do you think is the best? I'm a fan of Orzhov Descendant personally, as Descendant of Kiyomaro is simply a fantastic card overall. It's also the most consistent of the posted decks, with tons of 4-ofs.
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Descendant is a house. I've been playing the deck since before Honolulu, and its definately pretty nuts. One change I made is I added 3x Peace of Mind to thesideboard to combat Owl because if you resolve it thats usually game unless they string something amazing like trips Exhaustion or such, and even then you can still win.
EDIT: Ghost Dad makes me chuckle.
So far, my maindeck is set at:
4x Dark Confidant
3x Hand of Cruelty
4x Ravenous Rats
3x Teysa, Orzhov Scion
4x Ghost Council of the Orzhova
4x Castigate
4x Mortify
3x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4x Orzhov Basilica
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
6x Plains
2x Swamp
It leaves me with 4 open spots, which I test 3 of with Shrieking Grotesque, Paladin en-Vec, and Descendant of Kiyomaro. The last spot I test between Ink-Eyes and a fourth Hand.
Also, have some builds straight up dropped Hypnotic Spectre?
4 Dark Confidant
4 Plagued Rusalka
4 Savannah Lions
4 Ravenous Rats
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Shrieking Grotesque
3 Descendant of Kiyomaro
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 Mortify
4 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Castigate
Land (22)
4 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Deaths Storehouse
5 Plains
7 Swamp
4 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Last Gasp
2 Orzhov Pontif
1 Ghost Council of Orzhova
3 Paladin En-Vec
2 Cranial Extraction
Descendant is still a house in this deck, regularly stopping Grull Aggro's smaller beaters. Once the fat hits the table, usually I have Council out or have spot removal for it.
BW Agro is an incredibly flexible deck, and as such, builds are going to vary greatly. You need to have early defense against Zoo/RG like Hand of Cruelty, Paladin en-Vec, or Descendant of Kiyomaro or you'll just roll over most games. The sideboard helps greatly tho, RG rolls over to Seize the Soul most of the time.
4 Castigate
2 Nekrataal
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3 ????
The last slot is an interesting one, as I could be running Faith's Fetters, Execute, Slay, Keening Banshee, or Orzhov Pontiff in that slot. Which one is the best?
Seize the Soul is for Eminent Domain, so that's not an option.
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my trade thread:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=327326
I want to thank R&Doom for my signature. Thanks a lot!