I Like it. In my list i wouldn't even think of not maxing out architect and engineer but the maybe vial makes up for it. Also maybe 3x superion is the correct number, if i cut one i could bring in a batterskull/wurmcoil engine. The thing is they all need artifact mana dorks to accelerate them (except for the late game) so i just really like superion.
Still, before i make more changes i'm going to be testing this list:
Only one bident because of the lengendary clause. I still think thirst is fine but maybe 4x was too much, so now i'm down with one bident and one thirst. Drawing thirst with thirst isn't ideal and it happens a bit too ofte with 4x thirsts. Bident also makes things like vault skirge a lot better.
I've experimented with thorn of amethyst, when it is relevent it is excellent but most of the times it is not. This is why it is currently in my sideboard. I just bring them vs burn, storm, scapeshift, etc. It is a very good sideboard card because it adds up with lodestone golem.
I ended up cutting it from the main deck because i would much rather have interaction with creatures rather than spells game one. For spells we have judge's familiar, golem and spellskite. Most decks these days run lots of creatures so thorn is best in the sideboard.
Also i feel like tidehollow sculler is kind of clunky. You can't even convoke it and can't cast it with architect mana, and it doesn't get cost reduction from sculptor. It is very poor synergy and i don't think it is worth the splash. I don't even see why we would even want this type of effect in this deck... Sure it is cute with vial but having a painless mono blue mana base is just a lot bigger of an upside than this.
EDIT: I also don't see the point of ethersworn canonist. When we get the lodestone draw, chances are the opponent is already playing only one spell a turn. The opponent can also play around it by casting instants on your turn. It is yet another card that is useless vs affinity, the one deck that is most likely playing multiple spells a turn. The only situation i can see it working is vs snapcaster mage decks, but these generally pack bolt/electrolyse/etc and if canonist really bothers them they will take her out quickly. It is also good vs infect but spellskite is just better because they can slowly cast a single pump spell each turn and kill you.
Yes you are right about interaction, the deck needs some. Vedalken shackles seems like a good start. I remember a few months ago i got the idea of trying it but never ended up adding it to the deck. This means i will have to adapt my mana base for more islands, and i Don't have a problem with that. I think the deck needs spellskite as well so i'll try a few of those.
As for the vial the first thing i would cut would be sculptor but i just don't think it is worth it. You see i need a critical mass of one drop to ensure i can convoke a 2 mana creature with chief enginner on turn 2. I also never get tired of vomiting my hand turn 2.
Sure it isn't as explosive as affinity but the deck makes up for it with disruption and big guys like superion. It also isn't nearly as vulnerable to hate such as stony silence.
I've won a lot of game with the small creatures aggro plan so i'll never give it up. Pest and skirge are very good when you have a critical mass of those small weenies. When you have lots of those they can beat and win quickly.
EDIT: Also note that signal pest, like the boost from architect, is a way to give your mana dork a second life in combat. When you start punching for 3 with sculptors and engineers you can see the value of those. And don't get me started with multiple pests starting hands, they are awesome.
As for aether vial i mean sure it'll win you games that you get land short but half of the creature base in my deck is either designed to play the role of fast mana or is cheap to cast. Like i said in the other forum, aether vial can't attack and be pumped as opposed to other creatures and it is a very bad topdeck. Vial is a fantastic card but i just don't think this deck, or at least my version of it, is the best for it. If i played vial i'd have to cut creatures, which i don't want to do.
As for the taxing effect of lodestone golem it very rarely hinders my plays, most of the times i cast architect before golem or if it is late game i have enough lands to cast it.
Same thing for thirst, i either cast it turn 3 if i need gas right now or cast it later when i have more lands. Thoughtcast is interesting but we aren't affinity. Very often i have just 2 or 3 artifacts in play, the opponent also will kill some of them most of the times. Also instant speed is somewhat useful sometimes, so it still like thirst better.
EDIT: Another option for card draw that dodges golem tax is Bident of thassa. I tried it for a while and it was fine but i like thirst better now because bident needs you to already be winning while thirst will always draw you cards.
Hi all, i'm a new comer but i have been playing a similar deck since chief engineer was printed. I just learned about this forum's existence and decided to post the list i've been working on.
As you can see the deck is more focused on vomiting your hand turn 2 or 3 with cheap threats. It plays more like an affinity deck with a bit less firepower (no plating) and a bit more disruption.
There are no big expensive bombs, maybe this is a mistake but so far the swarming plan as worked out as I've had reasonable success with the list.
Myr superion has been very good, but i didn't see it in most list as i was skimming through this thread. In addition to architects and engineers we can cast it with double animated blinkmoth nexus or double etherium sculptor or a mix of the two. Also thirst for knowledge is super good, i often cast it main phase because even if we tap out we can still cast our stuff using our creatures.
Still, before i make more changes i'm going to be testing this list:
4 Signal Pest
4 judge's familiar
4 Vault Skirge
4 Myr Superion
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
2 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Bident Of Thassa
instants: 1
1 Thirst For Knowledge
lands: 20
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Cavern Of Souls
15 Island
2 Echoing Truth
2 Hurkyl's recall
2 Hibernation
2 Thorn Of Amethyst
2 Relic Of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
1 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
1 Quicksilver Fountain
1 Mindlock Orb
Only one bident because of the lengendary clause. I still think thirst is fine but maybe 4x was too much, so now i'm down with one bident and one thirst. Drawing thirst with thirst isn't ideal and it happens a bit too ofte with 4x thirsts. Bident also makes things like vault skirge a lot better.
I ended up cutting it from the main deck because i would much rather have interaction with creatures rather than spells game one. For spells we have judge's familiar, golem and spellskite. Most decks these days run lots of creatures so thorn is best in the sideboard.
Also i feel like tidehollow sculler is kind of clunky. You can't even convoke it and can't cast it with architect mana, and it doesn't get cost reduction from sculptor. It is very poor synergy and i don't think it is worth the splash. I don't even see why we would even want this type of effect in this deck... Sure it is cute with vial but having a painless mono blue mana base is just a lot bigger of an upside than this.
EDIT: I also don't see the point of ethersworn canonist. When we get the lodestone draw, chances are the opponent is already playing only one spell a turn. The opponent can also play around it by casting instants on your turn. It is yet another card that is useless vs affinity, the one deck that is most likely playing multiple spells a turn. The only situation i can see it working is vs snapcaster mage decks, but these generally pack bolt/electrolyse/etc and if canonist really bothers them they will take her out quickly. It is also good vs infect but spellskite is just better because they can slowly cast a single pump spell each turn and kill you.
4 Signal Pest
4 judge's familiar
4 Vault Skirge
4 Myr Superion
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Grand Architect
2 Spellskite
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Vedalken Shackles
instants: 4
4 Thirst For Knowledge
lands: 20
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Cavern of souls
14 Island
2 Echoing Truth
2 Hurkyl's recall
2 Hibernation
2 Thorn Of Ametyst
2 Relic Of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
1 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
1 Quicksilver Fountain
1 Mindlock Orb
As for the vial the first thing i would cut would be sculptor but i just don't think it is worth it. You see i need a critical mass of one drop to ensure i can convoke a 2 mana creature with chief enginner on turn 2. I also never get tired of vomiting my hand turn 2.
Sure it isn't as explosive as affinity but the deck makes up for it with disruption and big guys like superion. It also isn't nearly as vulnerable to hate such as stony silence.
I've won a lot of game with the small creatures aggro plan so i'll never give it up. Pest and skirge are very good when you have a critical mass of those small weenies. When you have lots of those they can beat and win quickly.
EDIT: Also note that signal pest, like the boost from architect, is a way to give your mana dork a second life in combat. When you start punching for 3 with sculptors and engineers you can see the value of those. And don't get me started with multiple pests starting hands, they are awesome.
As for aether vial i mean sure it'll win you games that you get land short but half of the creature base in my deck is either designed to play the role of fast mana or is cheap to cast. Like i said in the other forum, aether vial can't attack and be pumped as opposed to other creatures and it is a very bad topdeck. Vial is a fantastic card but i just don't think this deck, or at least my version of it, is the best for it. If i played vial i'd have to cut creatures, which i don't want to do.
As for the taxing effect of lodestone golem it very rarely hinders my plays, most of the times i cast architect before golem or if it is late game i have enough lands to cast it.
Same thing for thirst, i either cast it turn 3 if i need gas right now or cast it later when i have more lands. Thoughtcast is interesting but we aren't affinity. Very often i have just 2 or 3 artifacts in play, the opponent also will kill some of them most of the times. Also instant speed is somewhat useful sometimes, so it still like thirst better.
EDIT: Another option for card draw that dodges golem tax is Bident of thassa. I tried it for a while and it was fine but i like thirst better now because bident needs you to already be winning while thirst will always draw you cards.
My current list:
4 Signal Pest
4 judge's familiar
4 Vault Skirge
4 Myr Superion
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Grand Architect
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thirst for knowledge
lands: 21
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro, Palace In The Clouds
1 Minamo, School At Water's Edge
10 Island
2 Hurkyl's recall
2 Hibernation
2 Thorn Of Ametyst
2 Relic Of Progenitus
4 Spellskite
1 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
1 Quicksilver Fountain
1 Mindlock Orb
As you can see the deck is more focused on vomiting your hand turn 2 or 3 with cheap threats. It plays more like an affinity deck with a bit less firepower (no plating) and a bit more disruption.
There are no big expensive bombs, maybe this is a mistake but so far the swarming plan as worked out as I've had reasonable success with the list.
Myr superion has been very good, but i didn't see it in most list as i was skimming through this thread. In addition to architects and engineers we can cast it with double animated blinkmoth nexus or double etherium sculptor or a mix of the two. Also thirst for knowledge is super good, i often cast it main phase because even if we tap out we can still cast our stuff using our creatures.