So I have seen some decks running sylvan scrying does anyone have good testing data on when you want that?
This is a really bad card for the deck. It doesn't really do much to help our game plan. Tap out on turn 2, to play an inkmoth turn3 and it can't even attack until turn 4? That's awful. Best case scenario you play it on T2 with a Noble then drop your inkmoth as second land but that's magical christmas land and will almost never happen. More often then not it will clutter your hand when you're setting up for the kill, or be an awful topdeck when you're trying to close the game out.
You're better off with serum visions if you want to use mana that doesn't advance your board state or pump creatures. At least that card can dig for answers and set up your draws to finish off an opponent.
I don't like serum visions. I feel that it's too durdly and slow. It's really a subjective card though, some like it others dont. Distortion strike is better as a Rancor since you get more recurring dmg out of it over the long term.
Life from the Loam is not good. I'll respond to all your points for LftL in point form, too lazy to type paragraphs right now haha.
1) Recurring lands is not something we need since we can win on 2-3 lands (especially given Noble Hierarch)
2) We already fuel become immense with Gitaxian probe and fetch lands (as well as the pump spells we play). No need to fuel it with something that doesnt help us win.
3) Why buy back an Inkmoth when you can just protect it with apostles blessing/vines of vastwood for the same cost as Life from the loam. Those cards are also much more effective to the deck's overall plan.
To conclude, it's a win-more card that doesn't do anything to help us in our bad matchups, and doesnt improve the deck in any real way.
My infect deck is linked in my sig if you want to check it out. I'd be interested to see your list if you dont mind posting it
I would stick to 2 in the SB. I dont think any list wants more than 2 WD in the 75 anyway. Leyline of sanctity should never be played as a 1-of in the SB, I dont understand why so many people like this card. Dont get me wrong, it's insane in your opening hand, but to get it you need at least 3 copies in the 75 and that takes up a lot of precious SB slots. Not only that but there's no guarantee you'll have it in the opening 7 and it's the worst top deck possible for this kind of deck.
If you're worried about Jund, bring in spell pierce/dispel and dismember. We're already a good matchup against Jund though so you dont need too much hate.
Nice decklist Dutch. My only recommendation would be to move Wild defiance to the SB, it should come in against control heavy matchups with lots of counter spells. Tapping out on turn 2-3 to play wild defiance is really bad as it will get abrupt decay'ed or your Noble will be bolted before Defiance can resolve. Better to just play an extra pump spell, I would suggest an extra Might of Old krosa or Mutagenic growth.
(...) but if we can dispel/spell pierce any of their cascade spells(...)
Cascade triggers when they cast the spell not when it resolve, even if a spell with Cascade is countered, the Cascade ability will still resolve, which means that they have a wrath-like at their turn 3, dispel will not help.
Graveyard hate will slow them down a bit, but spell pierce is definitely the card we want.
I actually played against Living End just last week at FNM winning 2-1. It was my only time playing against it so in general I dont know if it's a good or bad matchup but I managed to race him. They do seem about a turn or 2 slower than infect. I dont know if grave hate is what we want against them though. I mean I know it completely shuts them down, but if we can dispel/spell pierce any of their cascade spells; Living end just wont go off to begin with and we can poison them to death while they scramble to find another cascade spell.
If a more experienced player in that matchup could say; Am i completely off with my assessment of the matchup?
Pact of negation can also be a completely dead card in your hand when sitting on 3-4 mana which is most commonly the case. Replace that and the probes with 2-1 split of Dispel and Spell pierce. Then adjust the Claim's and Corrupter's based on your meta. Spellskite should definitely be in the 75 somewhere, even with mass artifacts in the meta.
Nice list. Mine is virtually identical except I have -1 Rancor and -1 Become immense for 4x Gitaxian probe. The only gripe I have is Gitaxian in your SB. It doesn't help you against any of the decks bad matchups, and it's taking up precious SB slots.
Either move it to the main or replace it with some form of grave hate or dispel/spell pierce to take care of removal heavy deck like Grixis control, Jund, UWr, Twin or even Burn.
Twisted image is a sideboard card. I would bring in an extra groundswell in it's spot. Aside from that everything else seems fine; My infect deck is in my sig for reference
I like having 1 Twisted Image maindeck: It's removal for a lot of creatures, most important of which is Spellskite. I think this is a bit of a meta call, but Spellskite is problematic enough for Infect that I always want a maindeck answer for it.
Would you rather have a card and not need it, or need a card and not have it? If you have a TI and there's no Spellskite, you can always use it EoT to cycle. If there's a Spellskite and you have no answer... What do you do?
Fair enough. I would definitely say it's a meta call though. I dont think I would run 1 main if I was going to a grand prix or pro tour.
Twisted image is a sideboard card. I would bring in an extra groundswell in it's spot. Aside from that everything else seems fine; My infect deck is in my sig for reference
Does anyone still play the BUG version of infect? I'm new to modern and was wanting to play BUG, mostly for semi-competitive recreational play and once in a blue moon FNM play, but I've noticed everything BUG is a year old. Is it no longer viable? Or is U/G just that much better?
UG is more consistent and has a much less painful manabase. Splashing black is almost always for an extra infect creature (plague stinger), which has more cons than pros when you can just throw in ichorclaw myr if you want more creatures in UG.
How does Geist help against Jund? He can be discarded or easily blocked by Goyf/Confidant. Doesnt seem like a good choice to me, maybe a cute trick that will work once
Cool! I've been thinking of doing a 9th fetch as well since become immense is a 3-of in the deck. Let me know how Distortion Strike plays out for you as I've been thinking of toying around with it in place of Rancor.
PS. Just wondering, why no dispel? Is it a meta call or you just prefer Spell pierce since its less narrow?
I do really like your deck list a lot though. The changes I made to my list are essentially to bring it very close to your list, actually. I was going to point that out in my post above (that I was switching to a list closer to yours) but I had too much other stuff to type up and I forgot.
I'm guessing your list is identical to mine, except you're running Distortion strike in place of Rancor. Let me know if i guessed right haha.
Played a small FNM last week beating grixis, suicide zoo, merfolk and UWB control. Grixis is the toughest due to the never ending removal and counter spells, but with proper sideboarding you can fight through it.
I don't know if I'll ever go back to Serum visions/Spellskite/Sleight of hand/Wild defiance, the speed of my list is just too good and it's consistent enough that i never need to fix my draws anyway. Distortion Strike might come back in place of Rancor though, I'll do some more testing before i decide which i prefer.
This is a really bad card for the deck. It doesn't really do much to help our game plan. Tap out on turn 2, to play an inkmoth turn3 and it can't even attack until turn 4? That's awful. Best case scenario you play it on T2 with a Noble then drop your inkmoth as second land but that's magical christmas land and will almost never happen. More often then not it will clutter your hand when you're setting up for the kill, or be an awful topdeck when you're trying to close the game out.
You're better off with serum visions if you want to use mana that doesn't advance your board state or pump creatures. At least that card can dig for answers and set up your draws to finish off an opponent.
RWG Burn
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1) Recurring lands is not something we need since we can win on 2-3 lands (especially given Noble Hierarch)
2) We already fuel become immense with Gitaxian probe and fetch lands (as well as the pump spells we play). No need to fuel it with something that doesnt help us win.
3) Why buy back an Inkmoth when you can just protect it with apostles blessing/vines of vastwood for the same cost as Life from the loam. Those cards are also much more effective to the deck's overall plan.
To conclude, it's a win-more card that doesn't do anything to help us in our bad matchups, and doesnt improve the deck in any real way.
My infect deck is linked in my sig if you want to check it out. I'd be interested to see your list if you dont mind posting it
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
If you're worried about Jund, bring in spell pierce/dispel and dismember. We're already a good matchup against Jund though so you dont need too much hate.
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Good to know, thanks!
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If a more experienced player in that matchup could say; Am i completely off with my assessment of the matchup?
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Either move it to the main or replace it with some form of grave hate or dispel/spell pierce to take care of removal heavy deck like Grixis control, Jund, UWr, Twin or even Burn.
Edit: It feels great to be back in Tier 1
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Fair enough. I would definitely say it's a meta call though. I dont think I would run 1 main if I was going to a grand prix or pro tour.
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UG is more consistent and has a much less painful manabase. Splashing black is almost always for an extra infect creature (plague stinger), which has more cons than pros when you can just throw in ichorclaw myr if you want more creatures in UG.
RWG Burn
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RWG Burn
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Cool! I've been thinking of doing a 9th fetch as well since become immense is a 3-of in the deck. Let me know how Distortion Strike plays out for you as I've been thinking of toying around with it in place of Rancor.
PS. Just wondering, why no dispel? Is it a meta call or you just prefer Spell pierce since its less narrow?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I'm guessing your list is identical to mine, except you're running Distortion strike in place of Rancor. Let me know if i guessed right haha.
Played a small FNM last week beating grixis, suicide zoo, merfolk and UWB control. Grixis is the toughest due to the never ending removal and counter spells, but with proper sideboarding you can fight through it.
I don't know if I'll ever go back to Serum visions/Spellskite/Sleight of hand/Wild defiance, the speed of my list is just too good and it's consistent enough that i never need to fix my draws anyway. Distortion Strike might come back in place of Rancor though, I'll do some more testing before i decide which i prefer.
3x Apostle's Blessing
3x Become Immense
4x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
Creature (12)
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Breeding Pool
3x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Pendelhaven
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (4)
4x Gitaxian Probe
Enchantment (2)
2x Rancor
1x Carrion Call
2x Dismember
2x Dispel
3x Nature's Claim
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spellskite
2x Twisted Image
2x Wild Defiance
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company