I've been away from the scene for a while but after seeing the spoilers I'm quite excited for the future of this deck. Mainly Skysovereign, Consul Flagship, which I think could be a huge upgrade for this deck.
1) It has flying. At one point I played around with Wingcrafter to break stand offs which seemed to happen a lot with this deck with the lack of removal. It having evasion also makes Swords playable.
2) It costs 5. 5 is often what 7 is to Tron and there aren't any good 5-drops outside of Batterskull.
3) It affects the board. Not being able to affect the board dirrectly was what turned me off about this deck in the beginning since you gave problematic creatures like Bob, Young Pyro and Lord of Atlantis a free pass to spin out of control.
The gearhulks also seem kinda sweet. Mainly the black, green and white one. I'm mostly leaning towards the white one as a sideboard tech against elves and such, since I've always been a big fan of the UW version with Thalia. Toolcraft Exemplar also seems decent in that vein. It isn't blue but it still fuels Chief Engineer, it doesn't block well but it's a good pilot for the Flagship.
So yeah, I'm really looking forward for this expansion. It might be my casual MtG comeback
It becomes a lot easier when you run fetchlands. Right now I think the correct line is to play Sage first, since you only want 1-2 cards off of the first 4 the majority of the time and Sleight helps you putting one of the unwanted cards to the bottom. But if you run fetchlands, you can either play Sage, draw the card you need, fetch, and then play Sleight and see 2 brand new cards, or you can play Sleight, take the best card, play Sage, draw the best card and then fetch.
It just sucks to draw into unwanted cards after Sage because you played Sleight first and don't have a shuffle effect. It also sucks to have to use Sleight simply to bin cards you already know you don't want. But I prefer the latter scenario either way. Even though none of them are ideal.
Personally I think that the 3rd best 1-drop after Familiar and Sage is Wingcrafter. I ran added him and cut him a couple of times but he was a really close 2nd. The ability to give Golem evasion was really good, especially since his great stats often failed him because of his poor toughness. It's just hard to attack with him profitably which is a shame since he represents a really fast clock. Another thing I liked about Wingcrafter was his ability to turn Bident and any off-color equipment on.
White is a fine splash since it's a strong sideoard color. I've run UW before with 3 main deck Thalia's who was actually pretty decent. I'm on Grixis now but mostly since it offers the best sideboard options for this deck in my experience Thoughtseize and Pyroclasm are both really good when it comes to beating stuff like Affinity, Elves and Tron.
I think we can do better than Lark though. If we have 5 lands on the field we probably don't care about recuring mana creatures. Especially since there's an abundance of great value cards at 5+ (Batterskull for instance).
For Myr Superion to be cast reliably, you need 4x Vial, Engineer and Grand Architect (All though I've had success with only 4x Engineer and Architect before) but it's completely worth it. IMO Superion is probably one of the strongest cards in the deck, if not the strongest.
I'm liking the aggressive Signal Pest/Master of Etherium lists though,
Really? I prefer the original art on Familiar. The bird looks so cool with that little war helmet.
Sounds like Rusalka does a lot of work. Between Ruins and Rusalka it's almost like you had a Trading Post in play ;). Behold the power! Have you thought on adding more than 1 or is it that much weaker than Sage?
I'm completely in camp Evolutionary Leap now. It feels good going off with the Enchantment in play. Between Engineer/Architect and Hangarback/Wurmcoil/Master of Waves it basically says: "draw an arbitrary big amount of cards, put an arbitrary big amount of tokens into play and make an arbitrary big amount of mana"
Yeah I have been looking at her as well at one point. Shackles wasn't enough for me to consider her but with both Shackles and Hangarback she looks like she could do some work. Definitely worth testing.
Haha I was an idiot. I bought three at 10 tix a piece. Didn't like how they performed, sold them again when they were diving in value for 6 tix a piece. Then I bought 4 again when they had slightly increased in value for 7 or 8 tix (can't remember). So overall I've lost a lot of money on my little adventure.
Ace: fair enough. I've found in hard to gold fish turn 4 consistently. It requires a lot of things to go right for me. But I'm not playing Signal Pest either.
For this deck i prefer all in aggro approach, i'm not interested in durdling with trading post in a deck with this little interaction, i'd rather pressure the opponent fast and still have an ok game vs midrange.
I guess there are many ways to build this deck but i think a deck with few ways to interact is better served with killing the opponent early than durdling and getting comboed or out controlled in the late game.
It depends what you're up against. The reason I made the switch was because Jund and Grixis were tough matchups in my experience that I wanted to fix (because I've been up against them a lot). One of the reasons I wanted to test Master of Waves since they can't deal with it (pro red). But it wasn't enough. Now it's completely turned around from 40/60 to probably the opposite. They have a really tough time against the engine. They are trying to 2 for 1 you with stuff like Kolaghan's Command, Lilly, Electrolyze and Bob but you can beat them at their own game once you get the engine online . The same goes for Affinity. They simply can't beat infi fliers. Or CoCo decks. It's also not useless against Burn since you gain 4 each turn. It does get sided out against a lot of other decks like Merfolk, Tron, Amulet Bloom and Scapeshift. But we can't race them anyway so it's pretty much post-board board in all kinds of crap, close your eyes and pray, no matter what the build is (at least from my experience). So it depends on the meta. Right now I've been winning more with this build than any other I've tried so far though.
I'd also add that just because you run Trading Post doesn't mean that you pressure your opponent significantly less. It goes into what I'd call "flex slots". One notable difference I've made from the list I've posted is that I took out Thorn and replaced it with Myr Superion. So now my beaters are 4 Myr, 4 Hangarback, 4 Golem and 3 Wurmcoil which is close to what I've run in my other builds. Only difference is that I got the late game advantage which I've really been looking for. Vomiting out your hand isn't always enough. And lets be honest. We aren't Affinity. If we were going for all clock no inevitability we would be playing that instead.
18 lands is too few. I go between 22 and 24. Right now I'm at 22 but only because I've put Vial back in but I'm closer to 23 than to 21 if I were to change anything. Without Vial I think the correct number is between 23 and 24.
I think you need to determine how aggressive you wanna be. Signal Pest suggests a low aggressive curve, while Forgemaster suggests the opposite. I also don't think that Blightsteel is the best Forgemaster target. It has no immediate impact and it usually needs 2 hits to end the game. So it basically does nothing for 2 turns (that's 3 turns after you resolve Forgemaster) and it's weak to Path. I think that Sundering Titan or Myr Battlesphere are better targets since Titan has an immediate impact and is tough to deal with (if he kills it that probably means he has no lands left) and Battlesphere gives you chump blockers or a lot of mana if you have a Chief Engineer in play while put him on a just as fast clock as Blightsteel + is harder to deal with. You can also realistically hard cast both of them.
Trust me I've played approx 20 hours with this deck (am currently in a Daily Event) and Trading Post is bananas with Hangarback. Thoptor Foundry doesn't provide the powerful late game where you can loop things back and forth and overwhelm your opponent. It's more or less a one shot deal. I really urge you to try it (with no less than 4x Hangarbacks though).
The problem with Forgemaster isn't so much that you have to sac artifacts (since I run 4 Hangarbacks) the problem is that waiting a turn before you can fetch what you really want is often too slow. Summoner has the same problem. That's why I think that if you were to go the Forgemaster route then you'd have to go all in with Lightning Greaves. I don't like that direction though since Greaves are pretty bad alone when we don't have access to Metalworker. So I've actually cut them entirely and now only have 3 Wurmcoils in the high end since they are a decent back up plan with Trading Post if I don't draw into Hangarback.
Metamorphs are always decent and most of my lists start with 3 of them then I slowly trim them for other stuff, since they don't perform any particular role. They are never bad but they are never ground breaking either (except when you copy Golems, but that doesn't happen that often, at least not in time). I don't think it's incorrect to run them, but I think I've come to a point where I'd rather run other stuff.
Did a couple of hours more testing. So far I'll still claim that Hangarback + Trading Post is really really good and almost impossible for fair decks to fight through. On the other hand I'm starting to get the feeling that Forgemaster is meant to be played with Lightning Greaves or not meant to be played at all. Waiting two turns after you land it to attack with the fatty you search up is too slow and the artifacts that have an immediate impact like Sundering Titan and Possessed Portal are best when you're ahead to begin with. It's great as a tutor though and I've searched up all kinds of jazz with it even Shackles at one point. So it's not all bad, but it needs to fight for its spot in the deck. Or maybe I need to adjust what silver bullets I run. Ideally I have one for almost any situation and board state.
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I've been away from the scene for a while but after seeing the spoilers I'm quite excited for the future of this deck. Mainly Skysovereign, Consul Flagship, which I think could be a huge upgrade for this deck.
1) It has flying. At one point I played around with Wingcrafter to break stand offs which seemed to happen a lot with this deck with the lack of removal. It having evasion also makes Swords playable.
2) It costs 5. 5 is often what 7 is to Tron and there aren't any good 5-drops outside of Batterskull.
3) It affects the board. Not being able to affect the board dirrectly was what turned me off about this deck in the beginning since you gave problematic creatures like Bob, Young Pyro and Lord of Atlantis a free pass to spin out of control.
The gearhulks also seem kinda sweet. Mainly the black, green and white one. I'm mostly leaning towards the white one as a sideboard tech against elves and such, since I've always been a big fan of the UW version with Thalia. Toolcraft Exemplar also seems decent in that vein. It isn't blue but it still fuels Chief Engineer, it doesn't block well but it's a good pilot for the Flagship.
So yeah, I'm really looking forward for this expansion. It might be my casual MtG comeback
It just sucks to draw into unwanted cards after Sage because you played Sleight first and don't have a shuffle effect. It also sucks to have to use Sleight simply to bin cards you already know you don't want. But I prefer the latter scenario either way. Even though none of them are ideal.
I think we can do better than Lark though. If we have 5 lands on the field we probably don't care about recuring mana creatures. Especially since there's an abundance of great value cards at 5+ (Batterskull for instance).
I'm liking the aggressive Signal Pest/Master of Etherium lists though,
Sounds like Rusalka does a lot of work. Between Ruins and Rusalka it's almost like you had a Trading Post in play ;). Behold the power! Have you thought on adding more than 1 or is it that much weaker than Sage?
I'm completely in camp Evolutionary Leap now. It feels good going off with the Enchantment in play. Between Engineer/Architect and Hangarback/Wurmcoil/Master of Waves it basically says: "draw an arbitrary big amount of cards, put an arbitrary big amount of tokens into play and make an arbitrary big amount of mana"
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Chief Engineer
4 Myr Superion
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Evolutionary Leap
4 Grand Architect
3 Skaab Ruinator
4 Master of Waves
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Steam Vents
7 Island
Skaab Ruinator is quite sweet with both Vial and Leap.
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Chief Engineer
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Evolutionary Leap
4 Grand Architect
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Master of Waves
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
Don't think it's any good but it feels good when it works. Definitely a midrange slayer.
Ace: fair enough. I've found in hard to gold fish turn 4 consistently. It requires a lot of things to go right for me. But I'm not playing Signal Pest either.
It depends what you're up against. The reason I made the switch was because Jund and Grixis were tough matchups in my experience that I wanted to fix (because I've been up against them a lot). One of the reasons I wanted to test Master of Waves since they can't deal with it (pro red). But it wasn't enough. Now it's completely turned around from 40/60 to probably the opposite. They have a really tough time against the engine. They are trying to 2 for 1 you with stuff like Kolaghan's Command, Lilly, Electrolyze and Bob but you can beat them at their own game once you get the engine online . The same goes for Affinity. They simply can't beat infi fliers. Or CoCo decks. It's also not useless against Burn since you gain 4 each turn. It does get sided out against a lot of other decks like Merfolk, Tron, Amulet Bloom and Scapeshift. But we can't race them anyway so it's pretty much post-board board in all kinds of crap, close your eyes and pray, no matter what the build is (at least from my experience). So it depends on the meta. Right now I've been winning more with this build than any other I've tried so far though.
I'd also add that just because you run Trading Post doesn't mean that you pressure your opponent significantly less. It goes into what I'd call "flex slots". One notable difference I've made from the list I've posted is that I took out Thorn and replaced it with Myr Superion. So now my beaters are 4 Myr, 4 Hangarback, 4 Golem and 3 Wurmcoil which is close to what I've run in my other builds. Only difference is that I got the late game advantage which I've really been looking for. Vomiting out your hand isn't always enough. And lets be honest. We aren't Affinity. If we were going for all clock no inevitability we would be playing that instead.
I think you need to determine how aggressive you wanna be. Signal Pest suggests a low aggressive curve, while Forgemaster suggests the opposite. I also don't think that Blightsteel is the best Forgemaster target. It has no immediate impact and it usually needs 2 hits to end the game. So it basically does nothing for 2 turns (that's 3 turns after you resolve Forgemaster) and it's weak to Path. I think that Sundering Titan or Myr Battlesphere are better targets since Titan has an immediate impact and is tough to deal with (if he kills it that probably means he has no lands left) and Battlesphere gives you chump blockers or a lot of mana if you have a Chief Engineer in play while put him on a just as fast clock as Blightsteel + is harder to deal with. You can also realistically hard cast both of them.
Other than that I think the list looks great
Metamorphs are always decent and most of my lists start with 3 of them then I slowly trim them for other stuff, since they don't perform any particular role. They are never bad but they are never ground breaking either (except when you copy Golems, but that doesn't happen that often, at least not in time). I don't think it's incorrect to run them, but I think I've come to a point where I'd rather run other stuff.