MTG Salvation

Yesterday I realized that Hangarback Walker + Trading Post is a thing. So I ran a couple of matches with this build:


It's too soon to tell how good this is but at some point of the games I've been playing it kinda goes off. Just switching Hangarback Walkers back and forth is really powerful. That also enables Kuldotha Forgemaster. It's basically a deck filled with swizz army knives. Not sure what the correct silver bullets are yet. I've thought about stuff like Contagion Engine (fun with Hangarback too), Mindslaver, Possessed Portal (great with all the Thoptor fodder) and Spine of Ish Sah. Vedkalken Shackles also seems great with Post, you get to steal their dudes and sac them for value. It hasn't come up yet but it might be a reason to up the Shackles count.

I've also upped the land count to 24 because I hate mulliganning 0 or 1 landers with a passion. The reason I'm trying this is also because I really hate running out of gas. I want to be the one overwhelming my opponent, not the other way around.

EDIT: small changes. Trying out Possessed Portal. Have looked for it once and ended in a insta scoop from the opponent.

Molten-Tail is indeed interesting. I might try him out. The deck lacks reach sometimes and it has plenty of small dudes to discard in the mid/late game.

I'm all over the place. Trying out completely different stuff. Right now I've been testing this:



Vedalken Certarch has been surprisingly good this time around. Maybe because I play slightly more artifacts than the last time I tried him out. This is a more aggro/tempo-esque build with Superion and Ensoul Artifact to put maximum pressure on the opponent from the get go while you tap down his lands/creatures with Certarch and lock him out with sphere effects. I've only played around 6 matches with the deck but so far it seems decent.

Maybe I should say that the deck is tuned to beat what I'm facing right now online. Unless it's variance it's a seriously weird meta at the moment. Elves, Affinity, Merfolk, Abzan Midrange and CoCo decks, Jund, Grixis, UWR Control and Mono Blue Tron are the only decks I've been facing several weeks in a row now, though I did just finish a game vs. Twin which I only managed to win because he was mana screwed twice in a row. Though I agree with both of you that it needs some disruption main deck. I tested Weaponsmith again shortly and this time he felt underwhelming. I liked him more when I went for the 4/4x Lodestone/Batterskull kill (but never loved him)

This is what I'm running now:


Metamorph is the next card I'm looking at cutting a copy or two of. Master into Metamorph is absurd but doesn't happen often enough though copying Superions, Batterskulls and even Architects is still pretty solid. It just feels like a filler card more often than not and a "win more" card other times. I've been switching between 22 and 23 lands back and forth (and even tried 24 at one point). I still don't know what is correct. Splashing 2 colors only for the SB might be a bit greedy but on the other hand 3 colors are good with EE.

EDIT

Quote from streetMage »

Hangarback Walker. Master of Waves allows for some crazy mana with Chief or Grand Architect in play.

That is actually quite sweet. I think I'm gonna try this.

Quote from streetMage »

@Badagbing, not that its necessary, but it looks like you got a Wizard sub-theme going on there with Harbinger, Sage, Master and "Phyrexian Metamorph" (since Master is your usual target). Maybe shuffle some numbers and think about Voidmage Prodigy and Diviner's Wand.

Heh I actually did try Prodigy yesterday. He was a bit underwhelming (hard to keep up UU). Still unsure about Harbinger though. Thinking about switching them for a couple of Renowned Weaponsmiths + something else (Spellskite maybe). I also included a couple of Cliques who have been really good so far and a singleton Bident which has surprisingly over performed so far. I remember it for being meh back in the old builds but I guess I also didn't run as many fliers + Master. Diviner's Wand looks expensive. Have you tried it?

Quote from streetMage »

Quote from Badabingbadabum »

This deck is explosive. As in "goldfishes before Elves" explosive. One game I went T4 Master into 2x Metamorph off of Chief Engineer (by tapping the elemental tokens). By the end I had infinite 4/3's. The reason I'm trying this is because I get less and less excited by Lodestone as time goes by. The only thing I don't like about this deck is Harbinger who hasn't performed yet but at least he gives some devotion. I really wish that Chief Engineer was UU.

If I wasn't running Lodestone, my deck would be very similar to yours with Master of Waves an auto include. I think since you aren't running Lodestone, you should cut the Harbingers and run some combination of Dismember/Vapor Snag.

I still like Lodestone and want to go more into the taxing effect by possibly replacing the 2x Blinkmoths with 2x Tectonic Edge. The only reason I keep Ghost Quarter is soley for Tron. Thoughts?

GQ is also huge against Affinity. Tron and Affinity are 2 of the worst matchups in my experience, that's why I run 4 GQs in all my lists. I can't blame you for trying a split though since it's easier to keep your opponent off of Supreme Verdict mana for instance (or just generally makes it hard for him to play Magic). I would definitely rank both lands higher than any other colorless lands. I haven't tried the manlands, but I've tried stuff like Moorland Haunt and Academy Ruins and GQ/Tec Edge has been a lot more impactful and important for me so far.

I've thought about cutting Harbingers for Serum Visions actually though Dismembers could be a good choice too. I'm starting to like them more though. One game I got to play it instant speed off of Vial, bounce a Lord of Atlantis and trade with another lord, another game I forced my opponent to sac his own Ravager when I tried to bounce it with a bunch of counters on. I'm keeping them in right now but I might make the switch at some point.

Trying something completely different:



This deck is explosive. As in "goldfishes before Elves" explosive. One game I went T4 Master into 2x Metamorph off of Chief Engineer (by tapping the elemental tokens). By the end I had infinite 4/3's.
The reason I'm trying this is because I get less and less excited by Lodestone as time goes by. The only thing I don't like about this deck is Harbinger who hasn't performed yet but at least he gives some devotion. I really wish that Chief Engineer was UU.

I've been testing Serum Visions and so far I love it. It feels like the deck just got 10% better. It's a small price to pay to smooth out the draws and paying 1U for it in the mid/late game is perfectly acceptable. It feels like the deck kinda holds itself together now. Hangarback on the other hand I haven't been impressed with but I also haven't played a lot vs. Grixis or Jund lately. I imagine it shines vs. Kolaghan's Command. So until I get to test it vs. Jund/Grixis I'm keeping it in.

This is what I'm running right now



Fulminators and Drown are kinda awkward with Golem. But I tend to side him out a lot. Sometimes they overlap which is annoying but you can sequence yourself out of those spots in many cases.

Great minds. After posting I was actually looking at Transmuter. I think it require upping the Spellskite/Lightning Greaves count to something like 3/3. This is where I ended after some thought;



Don't forget that Disciple also works with Chief Engineer. Thirst might be good though I also like Siege (good at protecting Transmuter as well). I'm still in Lodestone/Thalia thought process mode. Wurmcoil would be good in a Treasure Mage build but with Disciple I'd rather run more fatties than the Mage since it starts the Whip chain faster. It might well be too cute and all though.

Quote from EggShen »

I like the interaction between Chief Engineer and Disciple of Deceit, but I'm not sure how much I like Kuldotha Forgemaster without some expendable artifacts that hit the board early. Seems like with all your artifact ramp, you can probably just hardcast the first big fat artifact monster that comes along. I realize that the Forgemaster can search it up, but so can disciple of deceit and sacrificing 3 artifacts (unless a Battleshphere has already resolved) seems like a pretty significant cost. Especially when the card you'll be searching up doesn't end the game immediately. He also has to survive a turn since you aren't running something like Lightning Greaves, which can be tricky in modern.

Yeah that's the thing I was going over myself. Getting a critical mass of cheap artifacts which is kinda rough. Greaves might not be good enough (though worth testing) but I could always run 4 Skites since it's rarely (if never) a dead card. There's also Relic or Nihil Spellbomb (draws you a card when you sac it), both seem decent in the current meta. There are plenty of cheap artifacts worth main decking and if not, I could always go for the super cute Ichor Wellspring (+ might even throw in a singleton Trading Post while I'm ad it). Question is what do I cut for them? The jump between 5 and 7 is bigger than it looks in my experience. Getting to 7 mana in time is rough with this deck.

EDIT
Might try something like this:

-3 Judge's Familiar
-1 Sundering Titan

+4 Lightning Greaves

Rough draft:



I'm thinking about trying this "go big or go broke" approach with Whip and Forgemaster and Cryptologist/Disciple to bin the fatties. What do you guys reckon? Going over the top is something I enjoy and something I sometimes feel that the deck is missing.

Quote from halikiu »

Hey im think about making this deck, would you guys say its viable? and might consider writing a primer for this deck, but will need some help if people are still interested

i really like the swords in this deck, and can difffenently see them being usefull

If by viable you mean taking it to a larger tournament and do well with it, I don't think it is. It's too inconsistent and loses to itself a lot. But I've won a bunch of 8-mans with it online and Ace1 and StreetMage have won some local tournaments with it. So it can definitely tangle with the big guns.

Writing a primer would be cool though. 10 pages in it has probably come to that point. Be careful with what you write though. What looks good on paper and in your mind is very different from how it typically plays out. This is of course always true, but especially with this deck. Ideally you've done some play testing yourself or Ace and StreetMage can make some bigger contributions (I'm too lazy myself )

Pyroclasm seems really good right now though. Outside of Affinity and Elves it's also good against Delver. I don't think that's narrow unless we go for Wrath effects but that's not really an option. EDIT: Hibernation and Recall seem waay more narrow. I have 3 Hibernations in my SB right now and I hate how I can't side them in against Affinity (since I'm mostly a huge favorite against green decks anyway). It's not about why I don't just play Snag + Dismember, I play Path in the side right now, it's just about how we can make the deck the best it can be.

Not sure I like Ghirapur (tapping down something like a Superion and a Lodestone to deal 1 doesn't seem that impactful). Would you play Bolt main, or just in the side? Who would you bring it in against?

I've been playing the deck a lot lately and managed to win a couple of 8-mans.

The more I play with the deck, the more I realize that red probably has the best sideboard options for us. It's got Pyroclasm and Grim Lavamancer against Elves and Affinity and it has Blood Moon against Tron. Ratchet Bomb and EE are just not good enough in my experience, they are too slow, they rarely clean up the mess (because of different CMC) and they hit us too. Pyroclasm (and I guess you could run Drown in Sorrow in black, though might be tough on the mana) cleans up everything (except against Merfolk) and it only really hits our 1-drops.

If I had the money for Scalding Tarns and Blood Moons right now, I'd probably try something like this:

Seems really good. Especially since we can cast it T1 and then slowly grow it. One of the problems I'm facing is having hands with expensive dudes and no dorks or the opposite. this kinda mend things together. Also good with Bident.

Quote from streetMage »

[quote from="Narvuntien »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/563145-grand-architect?comment=204"]


I thought about it, but I soon realized that I wanted to get value out of my 1-drop as soon as it came into play. You would be surprise how even if your opponent doesn't know what they are playing against they knee jerk Bolt, Decay, Terminate or Dismember any creature on the field. Sage of Epityr and Judge's Familiar offer immediate value. The Enclave Cryptologist would die before you got any value out of it besides being a blue creature for Grand Architect. Although its not a 1-drop, I wish they would reprint Baleful Strix, replacing itself as soon as it hits the field is priceless. Hapless Researcher wouldn't be too shabby either.

I tested a couple of them and came to the same conclusion. Or almost. The power of them is when you're in top deck mode drawing Familiars and friends is just really bad. I managed to win off of one I drew in the mid/late game because I could power it fully up within a turn and then just start drawing cards. But my problem lately hasn't been the late game but just bad variance and just really poor mulligans. I switched to a couple of Epityrs and so far I like them. This deck is so bi-polar, whenever I think I have it figured out it just keeps throwing stuff at me.

When Origins come out I'm gonna try a completely different weenie approach:



Just to keep it simple. Throw dorks out there, resolve Bident and draw a crap load of cards. Not very different from the various Sky Hussar brews that once was.

Anyway that's off topic.