I try to keep the list in my sig updated as I make changes, so when I put up a new post, the link is accurate at that time. I sometimes include the list in a post here, like I did on my first post after I ended my experimentwith colorless Stompy. I would like Damnation back, but I traded mine away, so right now I have Languish, which is better against Selfless Spirit but worse against Bant Eldrazi.
Deadrift do you feel Relic still has a Place in your current deck with only Strangler as a processor and having other Exile effects? It gives you a card when you crack it sure but which other reason do you have for keeping it in? Just curious to the why..
I still think Relic is a key part of this deck, especially in a meta with a lot of Dredge.
Strangler is amazing in an aggro meta because if it can process it is almost certainly going to be a 2-for-1, and value is what midrange decks are all about. All the potential exile effects have a downside: Path ramps the opponent, Sculler is mana-greedy and often returns its card when it dies (which it does to almost everything), Unmaking costs 3 CMC and 3 life, Declaration in Stone is sorcery speed and gives card(s) to the opponent, Oblivion Ring is 3 CMC and sorcery speed, and Relic needs graveyard fodder. Of these, Relic is the least painful option.
Just as important, Relic is great pre-boarding against any deck with Snapcaster or Goyf, or Eternal Witness or Kitchen Finks or Scavenging Ooze or Reveillark etc. Clearly it is good against graveyard decks like Dredge, Living End, and Storm. It can keep opponents off Delirium, Tasigur, or Become Immense when used proactively. When it is not useful it cantrips, and it is an easy side out in such matches, making room for more applicable cards.
I think Relic is a part of the reason the deck is so good, and in my opinion it is a mistake to see it simply as a Strangler enabler. Instead, I see it as one of the deck's many lines of attack. It's not useful in every matchup; but then no card is, like say creature removal vs. Lantern, or nonbasics vs. Blood Moon decks.
Thanks, that was the reply I was hoping for. I was also thinking later on, that Relic (besides Path/Sculler) is the only early enabler for Strangler's processing, as TKS and Anguished are on same/higher CMC, so that makes Relic a good choice. Cheers.
I try to keep the list in my sig updated as I make changes, so when I put up a new post, the link is accurate at that time. I sometimes include the list in a post here, like I did on my first post after I ended my experimentwith colorless Stompy. I would like Damnation back, but I traded mine away, so right now I have Languish, which is better against Selfless Spirit but worse against Bant Eldrazi.
Deadrift do you feel Relic still has a Place in your current deck with only Strangler as a processor and having other Exile effects? It gives you a card when you crack it sure but which other reason do you have for keeping it in? Just curious to the why..
I've been wanting to play this deck for a while now, and I have a few questions to help me get started:
1. What are the essentials to the deck? I.E. What should I be picking up first?
2. Are there any synergies I won't/don't see at first? What should I look for in an opening hand?
3. Can we run something like Rest in Peace over Relic? Or is Relic's card draw too invaluable?
As an aside, I'd also like to say that I think Distended Mindbender might be able to help this deck vs other decks that go big, like Tron, Ponza, or Titanshift. I might just be wrong though, so let me know what you think! Can't wait to get started and get off of my budget deck
For Distended Mindbender, I'm unsure yet. It could(!) potentially discard 2 cards, but it will also cost you 1 of your own creatures to reduce the casting cost of DM. Matter Reshaper though is a nice target as it will cycle itself but it will still set you back 1 creature. Taking away 2 cards your opponent needs to win the game is nice though. You will have to test it (try xmage, free magic application) and see if it works for you.
So, Martyr proc. Do we lose up front? How are you supposed to win from this matchup?
My build now includes 4 Concealed Courtyard instead of the 4 Caves of Koilos, I 100% like it. It gives us the early game colors without hurting ourselves of the Caves tapping.
I'm also thinking about cutting my 2 Shambling Vent and replacing it with an extra copy of Vault of the Archangel and a second Isolated Chapel. The manland doesn't really do that much in the mid and late game and can be easily bolted/pathed etc., while if you have a vault and a bunch of tokens you will scare your opponent more than just a 2/3 creature.
I'm also thinking of a second Sorin instead of the Smasher. I still feel like Smasher doesn't belong in Processors.
Also keeping Cataclysmic Gearhulk in the back of my head..
I also run the new Lost Legacy in the side, although it may be slow as a 3 cost Sorcery, the effect can almost completely shutdown your opponent. This week I exiled 4 Scapeshift and 4 Primeval Titan from my opponent's deck, we both had a laugh
How does Tomb of the Spirit Dragon shape up for Lifegain; are we missing the critical mass of colourless creatures needed for it to be considered an effective option?
I think you are right by saying we lack the number of creatures on board for this to be playable. With 3 creatures on the board you are in quite a good board state for BW Eldrazi (not counting Spirit tokens as they are white), it won't happen so often that there are more creatures on your side. Playing Blight Herder may give you 3 extra colorless creatures but I don't think that's good enough for Tomb to be played.
Went 1-3 last night with this list. I recently cut 4 Blight Herder for 4 Reality Smasher. Can't tell I like it yet and it also makes the Relic of Progenitus obsolete as there's so little processing going on. I will go back to my Blight Herders as I feel a lot more comfortable with them in the list. Reality Smasher ofcourse is a great card and a great finisher but to me it doesn't feel like it has a spot in this deck.
Isn't your curve just a tad high with 7 5-drops? From your reports it sounds like you have no real board presence up until t5 unless it's just not in your reports.
Nice results I must say for a person that's not feeling well
Do you find Declaration in Stone often hits just a single creature because there aren't multiple copies in play? Or is exiling that creature worth it nonetheless? And how often does your Wasteland Strangler actually kill something with its processing ability? I find the number of times a bit disappointing actually.
It's really important to take note of whether or not you have something in your opening hand to enable strangler's processing if your opener has a strangler. A path, sculler, or relic is very important in an opening hand with a strangler and/or Herder. Obviously we can't mulligan away otherwise decent hands to make this happen, but it is key to plan out your first several turns of the game with your opening hand, and determine the hands strength based on how you see the game playing out through those turns.
Those higher cost cards will certainly give you and advantage in the late game, but raising the CMC cost of the deck any higher than it already is will absolutely lead you to games where you have dead cards in hand because you don't have the lands to cast them, and also cause slow openers where you can't recover in a modern format that is fairly quick at the moment. I have firsthand experience playing a higher curve with this deck and I experienced much better consistency when I cut my fun-ofs. You've got to think about whether you want to play spicy, fun, high impact cards, or to perform at the highest level possible. It was sooo hard for me to finally take out my Batterskull, I had it in my list for 6 months. But I got to a point with the deck where I wanted to optimize my list and focus on piloting it as well as possible, and it seems to be going better since I've made that change.
Exactly, that was my experience as well last Wednesday so cutting the Sowers, Ulamog and Sorin again. It doesn't work in this deck and makes the curve way too high.
Last night could've been a lot better. Unfortunately a lot of the games my deck seemed to be against me, drawing a ton of land (even with Sorin, Grim Nemesis +1) and nothing really that I needed. E.g. in 3 games against Living End, which I should win, I have seen 1 single Relic, allowing him to fill his gy and casting Living End (twice in Suspend even). Will do some more testing today online and tomorrow at the LGS again. Sunday is a big open modern event where I would like to play this deck.
This is the list I'll play tonight, will let you know how it ends up. It's a lot of 1-2-3 off's but so far it has done its job. Any thoughts are welcome.
Nice results I must say for a person that's not feeling well
Do you find Declaration in Stone often hits just a single creature because there aren't multiple copies in play? Or is exiling that creature worth it nonetheless? And how often does your Wasteland Strangler actually kill something with its processing ability? I find the number of times a bit disappointing actually.
I can address a few of your comments. Vault of the Archangel is an insane card and needs to stay. Just having the threat of that ability to activate on your opponents turn can and will deny them from attacking into deathtouch 1/1 spirits or scions. There's situations where you've got a creature or other spell in your hand, but it's better to activate vault for the lifelink or deathtouch. It eats up land hate, protecting your Eldrazi Temples. The activation might not happen very often, but just the possibility or threat of it means its literally our best colorless producing utility land.
I have definitely had games where I've been praying for a T1 or T2 relic draw to enable my strangler's processor value. I'm sure the Sculler version alleviates this somewhat. The best way to avoid this is to pay close attention to opening hands and their synergy (or lack thereof), and to be content with a vanilla strangler or herder from time to time.
Most of the people posting of late have tried Eternal Scourge in their list, and I think the consensus is that at the end of the day, the recurring didn't really effect many games as they were decided too quickly, or it just was a boring vanilla 3/3 in a format filled with creatures that do more than have power and toughness.
Matter Reshaper is pretty solid and also fights for Scullers for slots in the main 60 in the Sculler + Herder version. If you go with no Scullers and Smashers, you could run 2-3 Reshapers.
Oblivion Sower is literally the card that got me to make this deck, but it was used because the lands were needed to ramp into Newlamog. There is just very little need for those lands when Sower is already at the top of your curve, and a 5/8 body nice but also a bit overkill for modern, smashers are already some of the biggest creatures played. And it's easily dealt with by removal, meaning you spent 6 mana to get extra lands you didn't need.
I would advise against trimming Dismember for a (6th?) discard. That slot is consistently used for instant-speed removal, either an Anguished Unmaking or Go for the Throat.
I went to the FNM at my LGS, went much better this time. 2-1 and felt a lot more comfortable with the deck. Even the Store Owner, who's an experienced player and Tournament judge, told me 'very well played'.
The changes I made for last Friday:
-1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
-1 Collective Brutality
-1 Dismember (moved to SB)
+1 Oblivion Sower
+2 Mind Stone
and the lands mentioned above.
I'm now trying some more changes online, cutting down to 1 Wasteland Strangler, cutting the 2 Mind Stone and playing 2 Oblivion Sower (not for the additional land although it may help a bit, but exile 4 and getting a 5/8 body is quite OK), 3 Matter Reshaper (replaces itself and brings more presence to the table and drawing a card for the same mana Mana Stone does eventually) and 2 Eternal Scourge (just keeps coming back, or when it dies in combat you can Relic > Exile it) just to see how it works.
DCteamup, I worry your mana is being hurt by cards like Cavern of Souls, which look enticing but actually don't help cast much. Flaying Tendrils is not worth the sideboard slot, as Deadrift pointed out it is only good against Abzan Coco (driven out of thge meta by Dredge hate), 8 Whack (Budget Deck), and Elves (which though it won the invitational, is not all that popular, and Wrath of God and Zealous are way better in the matchup anyway). Also I'd like to hear your reasoning on Hallowed Moonlight, what problem cards/archetypes does that answer?
Hi, thanks for your reply. Would you suggest swapping Caverns for Godless Shrine for example? I must say I didn't board in Flaying Tendrils as much as I would've expected so I will cut it and see how to proceed from there. Hallowed Moonlight I've put in as an anti Dredge/Abzan Evo/Chord/Coco/Nahiri/Aether Vial card. It fits the colors, is relatively cheap and draws us a card. Keeping 2 mana open isn't a rare sight with this deck, like for activating Shambling Vent, pathing, cracking relic etc.
Could you please also have a look at the questions/remarks I have posted and let me know your thoughts? I would very much appreciate your input.
What do you think of this list? I'm planning on playing this in my LGS. I think it might lack the pressure of Reality Smasher but I'm not sure. Coco/Evo/Jund/Dredge/Bant Eldrazi are popular decks in our meta.
So my post got lost somewhere in 'Preview', have to write everything all over again QQ
I played this deck yesterday at my LGS. It's my first time playing the deck in real life so potentionally made a ton of mistakes.
A couple of things I could use your thoughts on:
- I find myself having no cards in hand quite often, the deck doesn't really let you draw anything besides from cracking Relic. Do you guys have this too?
- Would Sea Gate Wreckage main board be an option to replace a Ghost Quarter/Vault of the Archangel to give some extra card draw?
- What you said Deadrift about more BW sources for successfull Sculler casts; I think you are right. I found myself having colorless mana quite some bit without access to both black and white. Would replacing a Ghost Quarter by a Godless Shrine be an option?
- Or, I haven't activated Vault of the Archangel a single game so I'm thinking of replacing this with a Godless Shrine. How are you guys experiencing Vault activations, do you do this occasionally or is it a rare sight for you as well?
- If you don't see a Relic the entire game I find the game is becoming quite hard since you will be lacking the Strangler/Herder activation most of the times. How do you go around with this?
- Really liking Collective Brutality! Discard + removal does its work really good
- Would Eternal Scourge have a place in this deck and if so what would you cut for it?
- Do you feel like more Matter Reshaper would be OK to play?
- Ghost Quartering your own land to fix colors, that sets you behind a land right? Is that really worth it as you are losing quite some tempo
- How do you feel about including 1-2 Oblivion Sower, extending the exile zone and potentially giving us some land in return, with a 5/8 body for 6? (Also I'm just in love with this card lol)
- Thinking of -1 Dismember and +1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Early game discard is most welcome
- Shambling Vent, nice!
PS: Deadrift please stay. From what I've read the last 2 weeks your input is valuable to all players playing the deck and using this forum to perfect it. I for one am really happy with your fundamented replies. Keep on the good work!
What do you think of this list? I'm planning on playing this in my LGS. I think it might lack the pressure of Reality Smasher but I'm not sure. Coco/Evo/Jund/Dredge/Bant Eldrazi are popular decks in our meta.
Hi, welcome!
For 1; You are going to build/buy this deck you mean? You will atleast need the core, so I would say, 4 Path to Exile, 4 Relic of Progenitus, 4 Lingering Souls, 2-4 Inquisition of Kozilek, 2 Thoughtseize, 1-4 Wasteland Strangler, 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 1-4 Blight Herder, 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor, 4 Eldrazi Temple, X Godless Shrine, 1 Vault of the Archangel.
For 2; Exiling a card with for example Tidehollow Sculler, or if your opponent casts a Rift Bolt/Ancestral Vision into exile, a Wasteland Strangler can process those cards away and kill 1 of their creatures (or 1 of your own spirits for that matter
Regarding 3; although the exile is nice (especially against Dredge) it will also exile your own Lingering Souls which takes away its flashback value. Relic of Progenitus gives you more control of what and when something is exiled and gives you a card draw when you crack it.
For Distended Mindbender, I'm unsure yet. It could(!) potentially discard 2 cards, but it will also cost you 1 of your own creatures to reduce the casting cost of DM. Matter Reshaper though is a nice target as it will cycle itself but it will still set you back 1 creature. Taking away 2 cards your opponent needs to win the game is nice though. You will have to test it (try xmage, free magic application) and see if it works for you.
Regards,
DCteamup
My build now includes 4 Concealed Courtyard instead of the 4 Caves of Koilos, I 100% like it. It gives us the early game colors without hurting ourselves of the Caves tapping.
I'm also thinking about cutting my 2 Shambling Vent and replacing it with an extra copy of Vault of the Archangel and a second Isolated Chapel. The manland doesn't really do that much in the mid and late game and can be easily bolted/pathed etc., while if you have a vault and a bunch of tokens you will scare your opponent more than just a 2/3 creature.
I'm also thinking of a second Sorin instead of the Smasher. I still feel like Smasher doesn't belong in Processors.
Also keeping Cataclysmic Gearhulk in the back of my head..
I also run the new Lost Legacy in the side, although it may be slow as a 3 cost Sorcery, the effect can almost completely shutdown your opponent. This week I exiled 4 Scapeshift and 4 Primeval Titan from my opponent's deck, we both had a laugh
Curious to your thoughts.
Current list is this:
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Blight Herder
1 Reality Smasher
Spells - 19
4 Path to Exile
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land - 24
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Marsh Flats
3 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Lost Legacy
2 Celestial Purge
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Spellskite
2 Disenchant
I think you are right by saying we lack the number of creatures on board for this to be playable. With 3 creatures on the board you are in quite a good board state for BW Eldrazi (not counting Spirit tokens as they are white), it won't happen so often that there are more creatures on your side. Playing Blight Herder may give you 3 extra colorless creatures but I don't think that's good enough for Tomb to be played.
Timely Reinforcements/Blessed Alliance/Rest for the Weary already provide us some lifegain. Those can be interrupted easier than the Tomb activation I will give you that.
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
Spells - 19
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land - 24
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Marsh Flats
3 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Celestial Purge
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Pithing Needle
2 Wrath of God
2 Spellskite
2 Disenchant
Isn't your curve just a tad high with 7 5-drops? From your reports it sounds like you have no real board presence up until t5 unless it's just not in your reports.
Exactly, that was my experience as well last Wednesday so cutting the Sowers, Ulamog and Sorin again. It doesn't work in this deck and makes the curve way too high.
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Wasteland Strangler
2 Eternal Scourge
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Blight Herder
3 Oblivion Sower
Spells - 16
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Land - 24
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Marsh Flats
3 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Celestial Purge
2 Stony Silence
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wrath of God
1 All is Dust
Do you find Declaration in Stone often hits just a single creature because there aren't multiple copies in play? Or is exiling that creature worth it nonetheless? And how often does your Wasteland Strangler actually kill something with its processing ability? I find the number of times a bit disappointing actually.
Currently testing with 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, 2 Oblivion Sower and 1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis. Curve goes up quite a bit, but not too shabby.
I went to the FNM at my LGS, went much better this time. 2-1 and felt a lot more comfortable with the deck. Even the Store Owner, who's an experienced player and Tournament judge, told me 'very well played'.
I have taken out 1 Caverns of Souls and 1 Ghost Quarter for 1 extra Godless Shrine and 1 Sea Gate Wreckage. Liking it!
I will also take back my comment of cutting Vault of the Archangel; that thing has won me games that night. So that's definitely staying in.
The changes I made for last Friday:
-1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
-1 Collective Brutality
-1 Dismember (moved to SB)
+1 Oblivion Sower
+2 Mind Stone
and the lands mentioned above.
I'm now trying some more changes online, cutting down to 1 Wasteland Strangler, cutting the 2 Mind Stone and playing 2 Oblivion Sower (not for the additional land although it may help a bit, but exile 4 and getting a 5/8 body is quite OK), 3 Matter Reshaper (replaces itself and brings more presence to the table and drawing a card for the same mana Mana Stone does eventually) and 2 Eternal Scourge (just keeps coming back, or when it dies in combat you can Relic > Exile it) just to see how it works.
Hi, thanks for your reply. Would you suggest swapping Caverns for Godless Shrine for example? I must say I didn't board in Flaying Tendrils as much as I would've expected so I will cut it and see how to proceed from there. Hallowed Moonlight I've put in as an anti Dredge/Abzan Evo/Chord/Coco/Nahiri/Aether Vial card. It fits the colors, is relatively cheap and draws us a card. Keeping 2 mana open isn't a rare sight with this deck, like for activating Shambling Vent, pathing, cracking relic etc.
Could you please also have a look at the questions/remarks I have posted and let me know your thoughts? I would very much appreciate your input.
Thanks
So my post got lost somewhere in 'Preview', have to write everything all over again QQ
I played this deck yesterday at my LGS. It's my first time playing the deck in real life so potentionally made a ton of mistakes.
A couple of things I could use your thoughts on:
- I find myself having no cards in hand quite often, the deck doesn't really let you draw anything besides from cracking Relic. Do you guys have this too?
- Would Sea Gate Wreckage main board be an option to replace a Ghost Quarter/Vault of the Archangel to give some extra card draw?
- What you said Deadrift about more BW sources for successfull Sculler casts; I think you are right. I found myself having colorless mana quite some bit without access to both black and white. Would replacing a Ghost Quarter by a Godless Shrine be an option?
- Or, I haven't activated Vault of the Archangel a single game so I'm thinking of replacing this with a Godless Shrine. How are you guys experiencing Vault activations, do you do this occasionally or is it a rare sight for you as well?
- If you don't see a Relic the entire game I find the game is becoming quite hard since you will be lacking the Strangler/Herder activation most of the times. How do you go around with this?
- Really liking Collective Brutality! Discard + removal does its work really good
- Would Eternal Scourge have a place in this deck and if so what would you cut for it?
- Do you feel like more Matter Reshaper would be OK to play?
- Ghost Quartering your own land to fix colors, that sets you behind a land right? Is that really worth it as you are losing quite some tempo
- How do you feel about including 1-2 Oblivion Sower, extending the exile zone and potentially giving us some land in return, with a 5/8 body for 6? (Also I'm just in love with this card lol)
- Thinking of -1 Dismember and +1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Early game discard is most welcome
- Shambling Vent, nice!
PS: Deadrift please stay. From what I've read the last 2 weeks your input is valuable to all players playing the deck and using this forum to perfect it. I for one am really happy with your fundamented replies. Keep on the good work!
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Wasteland Strangler
1 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Blight Herder
Spells - 19
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
1 Dismember
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land - 24
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Stony Silence
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wrath of God