Played 4 Siren instead of Owls today. They felt great in protecting Lodestone, Wurmcoil, and any attempts in equipping Swords on random dudes and trying to attack in spite of open mana and represented removal, were success.
Trashed UW Ctrl and Nahiri Ctrl with Lodestone-Thorn combo and Swords which enabled swift recovery from Verdict without overextending.
The only card I care from white decks is Stony Silence, Verdict is completely irrelevant.
Stony is the reason I side out Ballistas and Copters, leaving only Swords vulnerable.
Living End had no chance, something like my Merfolk vs Lantern. Spirit slows them down (maybe more if Architect is out), Copter can dump some dudes in the graveyard if needed, Lodestone protected by Siren is almost hard lock, Thorn is pain, Trinket for Chalice or Relic, it feels like pure nightmare.
Lost against Junk 1:2. Opponent was left at 2 life after I mulled and he cleaned my hand with discard. It is winnable matchup in general.
We had a series of 8-mans at Nats sideevents and I lent this deck to a friend.
He never saw it before.
Quick 6-0 in games later (Foil Nexus and 2 boosters) and he is in love
I collect Legendary cards (696 so far) so having random Oboro is nice (or at least I was collecting, gave up few days ago when Wizards decided to make Walkers into Legends, I will sell everything ). Oboro has some duties and does them well, I think it has a place in the deck.
Tried Cavern and it was dissapointing. Hands like Cavern, Nexus, Bird, 2-mana accelerator, Architect and bigger stuff (aka god hand if that was an Island) were common and it was annoying. Countermagic is bad when you start with a Bird. There are many Vedalkens but also Bird, Spirit and artifact creatures, too much to not make it awkward.
Usual replacements for Wurmcoil (in Path infested meta) are God-Pharaoh's Gift and Myr Battlesphere, maybe you can try that.
Lodestone is bad against cheap removal, but if opponent doesn't have it their gameplan comes to a halt. Wanderer into Architect into Golem means you are protected from a lot. Verdict might be uncounterable but they have to wait for fifth mana.
Living End probably has many problems with our deck: 8 "Cursecatchers" (Wanderer can be 2 power or more) that come back if it resolves, plus Lodestone is a complete beating. And this is all without Trinket for graveyard removal.
Kuldotha Forgemaster might be cool in Hangarback version but there are not that many useless artifacts in this deck, probably not worth it.
Anyway, Swords of "something and other" are nice in this deck, I was impressed everytime they resolved. They look nice as mana sink, give value to our dorks, make us not overcommit and they can be accelerated really fast. Anyone tried them?
Grats!
The main looks stock, more or less, so let me ask: what did you think of Superion, Orb and Fountain and would you increase the number of Rejections in the side, since Eldrazi is pain? Tnx.
Verdict is not that good against us. It has to resolve through Lodestones and Thorns and we still have Copters, Thrones, Manlands, Wurmcoil, Gift, maybe Sword, Hangarback or Batterskull; the point is we have stuff.
Stony Silence is the bigger problem.
I wouldn't waste time on Hope, it is one colorless mana for a reason.
Harvester probably isn't enough vs Merfolk since there is no blocking, most likely. As attacker it demands time and other creature just to be dealt with Snag/Dismember or Harbinger.
Quick Ratchet Bomb on 2 might be the answer, or well played Dismember inside of combat, but it is not a good matchup.
You can try your own Ensnaring Bridge since Fish has no answer to it (other than Ceremonious Rejection and Echoing Truth) or quick assembling of Collar and Ballista. Or ignore the matchup and focus on more played decks.
@ Master of Etherium
I dropped them since they annoy me (not enough power for this deck).
@ Birds
8 seems to me is the right number. We need to get going, they power up second turn Engineer, they protect our guys from counterspells and some removal and they are part of the best openings we could have. There is always Copter loot in their future if not needed.
@ Swords of x&y
As mentioned in the report, drew both against Lingering Souls while none is pro-white and then Stony resolved the next game. They did nothing against Tron and almost singlehandedly destroyed next 3 blue creature decks (just what happens when I play Merfolk in Legacy against D&T). Obviously bad against white decks, because Stony is coming to ruin Copter and Swords while making Ballista overcosted vanilla dude. Stony is the reason to have Master of Etherium, but mostly the only one.
Swords are really clunky with their 3 mana cost and 2 mana equip but that isn't the case in this deck. When they cost 2 mana and 0 equip, perspectives change. I did lived the dream of Bird into Sculptor into Architect for turn 3 cast/equip/attack with Bird protection, it was glorious.
@ Ensoul Artifact
That could be a "solution" to Stony problem but it would go against white deck, and Path to Exile is still there.
@ Copter
4 of SC, Ballista and Architect are the reason I like this deck, so there is no chance I would remove any.
Fourth Lodestone is missing since I couldn't find one on time. A friend forgot to bring me back Gift so that was out also.
"Creature enhancing package": Collar, Bident and 2 Swords, is here to use all of those doofuses (8 birds, 8 2-mana accelerators and 4 Nexus) and make them relevant in the later game. The rest is more or less standard.
R1 vs Junk
I had everything, random creatures + 2 Lodestones + Ballista for Confidant + both Swords. The problem was he drew all four Lingering Souls and he grinded me out after 30 min. If any sword was pro-white or second Ballista or Ruins came of the top...
Game 2 was turn 2 Stony Silence (expected them but not respected enough since they are mostly 2-ofs).
0:2
R2 vs Eldrazi Tron
Turn 3 Karn, Turn 4 Ulamog...
Well then.
Game 2 was mull into nonRejection hand and I died horribly to monsters.
0:2
Fun, Fun!
R3 vs Company Spirits
I threw too much stuff under 2 Geist of Saint Trafts, which slowed me down and she got me with flyers.
Game 2 was easy win with Lodestone equipped with Sword of Fire&Ice
Game 3 was explosion of random artifacts. She locked my Copter and Ballista but Lodestone and Wurmcoil don't care for Stony Silence.
2:1
R4 vs Monoblue Ninjas
8 Birds is great when opponent is trying to play 1-drop into Deep Hours, then Ballista showed up.
Game 2 was almost turn 2 win: opp Island flyer, me Island go, him Island attack switch with Ninja of the Deep Hours (got Dismembered), me turn 2 Chalice on 1
2:0
R5 vs UW Spirits
Both games I drew brutally, it felt like cheating (Lodestone + Ballista and Bident + Sword of Feast&Famine (draw a lot and untap to play everything)).
2:0
Good decks destroyed me while random decks without removal had no chance. That is not great resume for it.
In the end, I need pro-white sword, fourth Rejection for sure, "package" was great and I need to test more different matchups.
Concerning bad matchups, Merfolk is not the easiest if Ballista is not drawn, and Eldrazi Tron and Tron are usually problematic.
I haven't played against a lot of other decks.
Basilisk Collar and/or Hangarback are nice against Ravager, with or without Ballista.
Lodestone is useless but so is Etched Champion from their side
All in all, playing against Affinity with this deck is much nicer than using my other Islands.dec.
Oh wow, haven't noticed he skipped on Copters. This is so bad
Copter playset is probably THE reason to play this deck for me and wouldn't recommend going without it.
Throne is good as proactive threat in game 1 and fine as another dmg source vs decks with Verdict or Ensnaring Bridge, no need for overextending and a way to cross the finish line without attacking. I was sceptical at first too.
I tested against Affinity this whole week. That looks like great matchup for us. Anybody agrees or is my testing statistical anomaly?
Not an expert on Vengevine.dec but it's engine depends on finding and resolving looting spells (Looting and Reunion) to do the thing.
Have a Bird into Thorn and the deck is mostly stopped. Cage, Relic, Wurmcoil, Battlesphere, even Spellbomb, big Ballista, Hangarback if necessary, Thorn, Spellskite... we are not defenseless.
And the deck didn't took down an Open, not even top32.
Well this version can just go over the top of you too. It uses neonate to discard as well and taxing 1 drop creatures isn't going to stop it too much. Battle rage and BI are scary as well even if taxed for a couple mana. The g/r new version usually has a nice boardstate by t3 so if you get behind a turn it'll be hard to catch up. The meta is so go fast or go high on mana producers that that's why I'm trying cutting lodestone for more speed on starts and then relying in god-pharaoh's gift for the late game.
Neonate doesn't produce starts we are worried about, not even 2 copies. Noncreature loot spells are the important ones.
What is the point in cutting Lodestones for speed just to play Gift in the late game? If this deck loses midgame plays then it becomes disjointed, like playing Goblin Guide and Inferno Titan in the same deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Trashed UW Ctrl and Nahiri Ctrl with Lodestone-Thorn combo and Swords which enabled swift recovery from Verdict without overextending.
The only card I care from white decks is Stony Silence, Verdict is completely irrelevant.
Stony is the reason I side out Ballistas and Copters, leaving only Swords vulnerable.
Living End had no chance, something like my Merfolk vs Lantern. Spirit slows them down (maybe more if Architect is out), Copter can dump some dudes in the graveyard if needed, Lodestone protected by Siren is almost hard lock, Thorn is pain, Trinket for Chalice or Relic, it feels like pure nightmare.
Lost against Junk 1:2. Opponent was left at 2 life after I mulled and he cleaned my hand with discard. It is winnable matchup in general.
Love this deck.
He never saw it before.
Quick 6-0 in games later (Foil Nexus and 2 boosters) and he is in love
Tried Cavern and it was dissapointing. Hands like Cavern, Nexus, Bird, 2-mana accelerator, Architect and bigger stuff (aka god hand if that was an Island) were common and it was annoying. Countermagic is bad when you start with a Bird. There are many Vedalkens but also Bird, Spirit and artifact creatures, too much to not make it awkward.
Usual replacements for Wurmcoil (in Path infested meta) are God-Pharaoh's Gift and Myr Battlesphere, maybe you can try that.
Lodestone is bad against cheap removal, but if opponent doesn't have it their gameplan comes to a halt. Wanderer into Architect into Golem means you are protected from a lot. Verdict might be uncounterable but they have to wait for fifth mana.
Living End probably has many problems with our deck: 8 "Cursecatchers" (Wanderer can be 2 power or more) that come back if it resolves, plus Lodestone is a complete beating. And this is all without Trinket for graveyard removal.
Kuldotha Forgemaster might be cool in Hangarback version but there are not that many useless artifacts in this deck, probably not worth it.
Anyway, Swords of "something and other" are nice in this deck, I was impressed everytime they resolved. They look nice as mana sink, give value to our dorks, make us not overcommit and they can be accelerated really fast. Anyone tried them?
The main looks stock, more or less, so let me ask: what did you think of Superion, Orb and Fountain and would you increase the number of Rejections in the side, since Eldrazi is pain? Tnx.
Stony Silence is the bigger problem.
I wouldn't waste time on Hope, it is one colorless mana for a reason.
Quick Ratchet Bomb on 2 might be the answer, or well played Dismember inside of combat, but it is not a good matchup.
You can try your own Ensnaring Bridge since Fish has no answer to it (other than Ceremonious Rejection and Echoing Truth) or quick assembling of Collar and Ballista. Or ignore the matchup and focus on more played decks.
I dropped them since they annoy me (not enough power for this deck).
@ Birds
8 seems to me is the right number. We need to get going, they power up second turn Engineer, they protect our guys from counterspells and some removal and they are part of the best openings we could have. There is always Copter loot in their future if not needed.
@ Swords of x&y
As mentioned in the report, drew both against Lingering Souls while none is pro-white and then Stony resolved the next game. They did nothing against Tron and almost singlehandedly destroyed next 3 blue creature decks (just what happens when I play Merfolk in Legacy against D&T). Obviously bad against white decks, because Stony is coming to ruin Copter and Swords while making Ballista overcosted vanilla dude. Stony is the reason to have Master of Etherium, but mostly the only one.
Swords are really clunky with their 3 mana cost and 2 mana equip but that isn't the case in this deck. When they cost 2 mana and 0 equip, perspectives change. I did lived the dream of Bird into Sculptor into Architect for turn 3 cast/equip/attack with Bird protection, it was glorious.
@ Ensoul Artifact
That could be a "solution" to Stony problem but it would go against white deck, and Path to Exile is still there.
@ Copter
4 of SC, Ballista and Architect are the reason I like this deck, so there is no chance I would remove any.
I brought this:
15 Island
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Academy Ruins
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Walking Ballista
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Grand Architect
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
2 Trinket Mage
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Batterskull
3 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Dismember
Fourth Lodestone is missing since I couldn't find one on time. A friend forgot to bring me back Gift so that was out also.
"Creature enhancing package": Collar, Bident and 2 Swords, is here to use all of those doofuses (8 birds, 8 2-mana accelerators and 4 Nexus) and make them relevant in the later game. The rest is more or less standard.
R1 vs Junk
I had everything, random creatures + 2 Lodestones + Ballista for Confidant + both Swords. The problem was he drew all four Lingering Souls and he grinded me out after 30 min. If any sword was pro-white or second Ballista or Ruins came of the top...
Game 2 was turn 2 Stony Silence (expected them but not respected enough since they are mostly 2-ofs).
0:2
R2 vs Eldrazi Tron
Turn 3 Karn, Turn 4 Ulamog...
Well then.
Game 2 was mull into nonRejection hand and I died horribly to monsters.
0:2
Fun, Fun!
R3 vs Company Spirits
I threw too much stuff under 2 Geist of Saint Trafts, which slowed me down and she got me with flyers.
Game 2 was easy win with Lodestone equipped with Sword of Fire&Ice
Game 3 was explosion of random artifacts. She locked my Copter and Ballista but Lodestone and Wurmcoil don't care for Stony Silence.
2:1
R4 vs Monoblue Ninjas
8 Birds is great when opponent is trying to play 1-drop into Deep Hours, then Ballista showed up.
Game 2 was almost turn 2 win: opp Island flyer, me Island go, him Island attack switch with Ninja of the Deep Hours (got Dismembered), me turn 2 Chalice on 1
2:0
R5 vs UW Spirits
Both games I drew brutally, it felt like cheating (Lodestone + Ballista and Bident + Sword of Feast&Famine (draw a lot and untap to play everything)).
2:0
Good decks destroyed me while random decks without removal had no chance. That is not great resume for it.
In the end, I need pro-white sword, fourth Rejection for sure, "package" was great and I need to test more different matchups.
I haven't played against a lot of other decks.
Lodestone is useless but so is Etched Champion from their side
All in all, playing against Affinity with this deck is much nicer than using my other Islands.dec.
Copter playset is probably THE reason to play this deck for me and wouldn't recommend going without it.
Throne is good as proactive threat in game 1 and fine as another dmg source vs decks with Verdict or Ensnaring Bridge, no need for overextending and a way to cross the finish line without attacking. I was sceptical at first too.
I tested against Affinity this whole week. That looks like great matchup for us. Anybody agrees or is my testing statistical anomaly?
This looks close to my list since I am also on Collar-Trinket-Hangarback package in the main.
Neonate doesn't produce starts we are worried about, not even 2 copies. Noncreature loot spells are the important ones.
What is the point in cutting Lodestones for speed just to play Gift in the late game? If this deck loses midgame plays then it becomes disjointed, like playing Goblin Guide and Inferno Titan in the same deck.