Went 4-0 tonight, swapped the pests for familiar's mainboard, beat burn 2-1, skred 2-0, gb ds (white out of the board) 2-1, and grixis control 2-0. Deck was amazing once again with just slight changes. I did try one nykthos and it did allow me to cast an architect on 3 but if it were an island it would have been just the same. I'll likely go down to just 1 cavern now that I'm on 4 bird 4 spirit 3 human wizard as my 1 drops. I did add 2 skites to the board and they'll likely never not be in there now, they were very strong. I'm to the point where testing different lands has been fine but I'll probably drop the scrying sheets, 1 cavern, and nykthose just for islands so I'm sure to be able to hit my t1 U mana. I've felt 20 land is find I just need to be sure Island is one of my starters (even though I've won 3 matches with starting land drops of 3 blinkmoths).
Master of Etherium doesn't feel like a three-drop. Grand Architect does; it always costs three. But there are many ways to cheat master into play with convoke, or cost reduction, or architect mana. Master plays an important role in beefing up the copter and golem above bolt range. Overall, there are 26 total artifacts in the deck, so thats at least half your cards for master to grow by. It still felt fine as a 3 of, and offered room to side out in favor of trinket mages + one-drops.
The loadstone/copter point is very good and hasn't come up for me too often because people tend to go after my mana cheaters. I just don't like that many times early without pest it'll be like a 3 or 4. Maybe I'm just used to them as 8/8's. Edit: the more I think about it I see that a lot. I guess I wanted a fatty and didn't care about the lord effect with the loss of pests. I was on 2 but I'll try the three out and see how that goes with the lord in mind more than the fatty.
For the people playing the white splash why not run 4 fast land 4 strand and 1 plains 0 fountain? You still want as little damage to yourself as possible I think.
If I go away from pests I might drop the masters all together and go to Myr in it's spot.
I don't think the damage costs me too many games, but I'll try to pay closer attention. Seachrome Coast is cool, but the coming into play tapped is worse than losing life most of the time. It's all about balance. It's also worth mentioning thatSage of Epityr and Smuggler's Copter help a lot in sorting lands and mitigating their drawbacks.
EDIT: Myr Superion is bad IMO. I tried 4, then 2 and they still got stuck in my hand sometimes - and that was before Fatal Push was a thing. Sage helps with the turn 2 dream, but that's still not enough for me to play it.
Here's what I've played through 2 leagues so far today:
1-2 Mono Blue Scrying Sheets
2-0 Mono White Nykthos
2-1 Living End
1-2 Death's Shadow
1-2 Devoted Druid
2-0 Death's Shadow
2-0 u/r tempo Thing in the Ice.
2-1 Living End
0-2 Merfolk
1-2 Tron
Went 5 - 5 overall. Not great, but not nearly as bad as yesterday, lol. First league I actually didn't have the 3 Thrones, but I decided to go for it in the second league. I feel like Sage + Fetches gives me some extra outs to the legendary rule. So far so good, I'll keep you guys posted.
I don't particularly think Myr is great either but master with no pests seems meh as it won't be that big and it's a 3 drop so it's one of our slower creatures. Push tends to hit both just as easily so that doesn't matter too much. As for your list 3 throne seems deep.
For the people playing the white splash why not run 4 fast land 4 strand and 1 plains 0 fountain? You still want as little damage to yourself as possible I think.
If I go away from pests I might drop the masters all together and go to Myr in it's spot.
I don't really think that Sage of Epityr is a playable card, it just doesn't do anything that is worth a card slot (like Index that nobody plays). Glint-Nest Crane would be much better (or even Serum Visions).
I actually love sage. Often it makes it so I can line up my land drops and if I don't need them space it out so I can loot them away. I also am going lower on lands though with sage. Crane doesn't come down t1 can't get land and our 2 drop spot is just way too full. I really think you want a blue one drop t1 and it's either sage or familiar for me right now. As far as any non creature non artifict cards I just can't get behind any.
I ran the following at Modern Monday. Went 3-1, lost to Devoted Druid game 1 cause he had double druid back-to-back. game 2 cause i kept this: Island, Cage, Sculpter, Sculpter, Engineer, Walking Ballista, Grand Architect. I think it was worth the risk beacuse I only needed one more land to be able to take over with ballista. but i didnt get one til my turn 4 and died.
I dont think I missed the signal pests at all. the birds felt good as always. I didnt have chalice at the time, so i ran a 2nd harvester which was fine. I think chalice is good addition because it attacks living end which can be an issue, as well as an assortment of other decks.
Are 3 masters still as good with no pests? I really like the additional blue creatures even though I've been loving sages.
(Recent lurker waiting to get the remaining cards for the deck together)
Quicksilver Fountain I feel is only good on the play and Spreading Seas costs your pivotal turn 2 where we actually do our things so there's no real great handle for the lands themselves imo.
The one card I want to try is replacing one Throne with one Contested War Zone. Functionally the same in strict races (combo or before Tron/Control take over.) Mild liability against Goblin Guide decks but really it would just never untap again assuming we use it the turn we play it. Thoughts?
I'm not real sold on any particular sideboard yet but the main 60 seems about air tight other than that.
idont think you fully see the value in throne. When you tap your creatures for mana throne deals damage at the end of turn. So even when you can't attack you can make mana (even if for no reason) and deal damage.
Last Thursday the only match I won the die roll on was the match I lost in 2! I think ballista gives us plenty of opportunities to get back in the game.
Fountain can come down t2 even while you're advancing your aggro plan. Play the deck and see the lines in action. Seas takes time off and isn't really following the deck design imo.
I'm not trying to be rude or shoot people down but theory crafting without playing thedeck quite a bit doesn't help. I made land changes but other than that I ran aces list for 25ish matches before trying to decide what I did and didn't like the most and what cards I wanted to try.
Also, this isn't exactly a Zoo type aggro deck and more in line with tribal synergy-reliant decks like Elves or Merfolk.
Seas is againt the tax idea that's why I too run 2 fountain and if you have an oboro you can hold off tron a long time. This deck can be just as fast as a zoo deck.
Hey all, I've been lurking on this thread for a while and pretty excited to say I just ordered all the cards to start playing this deck. Thanks to everyone here to all their work refining this deck. I have a couple ideas for cards that seem like they'd do well in this deck (mostly sideboard), and I wanted to run them by you folks to see what you thought about them.
Bottled Cloister - Fishbowling this deck a bit, it seems like it's easy to get all your threats on the board, but that it doesn't have many options to come back from a board wipe - Supreme Verdict or Damnation or Anger of the Gods seem totally game ending. Drawing two cards per turn seems like a great insurance policy against cards like that, and it seems like this deck could land it on turn 3 easily.
Ghost Quarter - GQ seems like a great main deck disruption option. It seems more attractive than Cavern of Souls since I see a lot more Tron than counter spells in my meta. Curious if people have tried it and what the floor seems to be for a number of blue lands.
Fetches - Is it deliberate that you folks aren't running fetches? The thinning seems like a marginal but pretty standard decision.
Other cards that I have seen discussed in this forum but don't understand why they aren't included recently -
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - For this more aggressive, all-in build, this seems like a super-powerful effect. I know it's not an artifact, but it does attack with gusto. Why hasn't it been making the cut?
Chalice of the Void - It seems like most of our best cards are at the 0 and 3 cmc slots, and DS and Storm and Burn have their best cards at 1 and 2 slots. Throw in Trinket Mages and this seems like solid gold for the sideboard - why hasn't it made it?
Cheers all
I've tried 4 cmc sb cards and usually they're too late. Scrap trawler is kinda the go to there although vs anger that is an issue.
It's an aggro deck so tempo lost by using a gq or not having the U can hurt.
No damage from our mana base is really nice and fetches would be needed if you were to go the Thalia line but the key is that everything is blue or an artifact.
Chalice would hurt us more than help us and again we tend to be an aggro deck so taking turns off to land a chalice could be worse than killing one turn earlier.
No, rejection so far has been a great tempo play against must-answer cards like Wurmcoil and O-Stone - and it's one freaking mana. I can hold up one mana if it means I won't lose the game.
i mean I'd rather keep them off the tron rather than try to answer every threat once they have it. I don't think that's how you want to attack that matchup but I may be wrong.
I went 3-1 tonight. I personally think sage is very underrated. Setting up your first 4 draws of the game is very nice while also having another blue creature for architect/engineer. Often I'd find the missing land I needed or am able to set up favorable looting with copter to bin cards I didn't want so I could dig deeper to gas. I put in the harvesters to try but never had the opportunity to cast them. The only change I'll likely make is going down to 1 sheets and adding 1 more island. Deck played very well and for my only loss to storm I was 1 turn too slow both games.
2-0 vs affinity-
Lost the die roll so I was on the draw both games. Balista single handily wins this match up. G1 opponent starts fast per usual but t1 sage sets me up to do the same t2. Opponent had no ravager/overseer so balista on 3 with my board being bigger at that point was enough to swing things back in my favor. G2 I keep a hand with 2 blinkmoth, 1 copter, 1 sage, 2 sculptors, 1 chief while opponent mulls to 5 keeping t1 mountain Opal memnite x2 ravager. I take hits for a couple turn drawing yet a third blinkmoth so on opponents t4 i crew my copter with a blinkmoth to block and loot hitting my blue source and killing his ravager because he couldn't go too all in on sacking and keeping less threats. He had 2 imps at this point so he put the counter on one of them. I spit out my hand and take another hit the next turn down to 7. Next turn I cast my trinket mage getting ballista but being greedy decided not to cast it because I can take the hit 1 more turn and have it get bigger. Opponent top decks thoughtsieze and takes my balista then I top deck balista and there is no coming back for him.
Out
4 golem
2 pest
In
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 needle
1 collar
2-0 vs ds jund-
Lost the roll again so I'm on the play. Newer player so I had to explain a lot of interactions. G1 I basically get 2 coppters and a pest swinging every turn for massive damage after he took 5 t1 just from himself. G2 he has a bunch of removal including 1 k command and surgical on sculptors. T3 loadstone sets him too far back and traverse/ds costs him 4 but then I remind him he has to pay the tax and he scoops to lethal on the next turn.
Out
2 masters
4 pest
1 throne
1 sage
In
1 relic
2 trawler
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 collar
0-2 vs storm-
Won the roll so on the play I t1 wanderer t2 sculptor gets remanded t3 sculptor copter then he storms off t3 even through wanderer, while I have loadstone for next turn. G2 I have a great start with sage into sculptor then t3 trinket mage getting cage. Opponent has t3 ritual into shatterstorm so that sucked. I then start beating down with dudes but he has bolt for my copter and once I get him to 3 he combos the next turn. With 5 mana 3 cards in hand he gifts at my end step getting baral, goblin, past, and morphose I give him the creatures because even 2 blockers want enough to live and then he had double ritual and manamorphose in hand so he won. He did suggest I swap piles but idk if it would have mattered. I saw no tax cards g2 and he he his sb cards too but I think it's winnable.
Out
2 master
4 pest
1 walker
In
2 relic
1 cage
2 mage
2 thorn
2-0 vs bant company-
Won the die roll g1 was fairly easy with t1 sage setting up my draws/loots got reflector maged twice but it didn't matter I just straight beat down. G2 I was just on the beatdown plan and once I got out loadstone he couldn't keep up. Masters were nice in this matchup (only one I really got to see them be really good).
Out
4 pest
1 throne
In
2 mage
2 harvester
1 collar
All in all I liked the deck, this was my first chance to play it in paper so there are a lot more things to keep track of where as online p/t is easy to see for combat math. I feel I very likely made a lot of mistakes but the deck just didntcare and got me there.
Before the event I played my buddies boggles deck and I think it's just in winnable for me lol. I went like 1-5 vs it.
I don't think you want any none creature/artifact spells at all. The biggest value in this deck is the taxing on the opponent so the last thing you want to do is feel that yourself.
The loadstone/copter point is very good and hasn't come up for me too often because people tend to go after my mana cheaters. I just don't like that many times early without pest it'll be like a 3 or 4. Maybe I'm just used to them as 8/8's. Edit: the more I think about it I see that a lot. I guess I wanted a fatty and didn't care about the lord effect with the loss of pests. I was on 2 but I'll try the three out and see how that goes with the lord in mind more than the fatty.
Decks running white might want to run Ethersworn Canonist or even Norn's Annex in the board too.
Also with the judges, wanderers, sages, sculptor, architect, and chief I wonder if 1 nykthos isn't a bad idea for bigger balistas even.
I don't particularly think Myr is great either but master with no pests seems meh as it won't be that big and it's a 3 drop so it's one of our slower creatures. Push tends to hit both just as easily so that doesn't matter too much. As for your list 3 throne seems deep.
If I go away from pests I might drop the masters all together and go to Myr in it's spot.
I actually love sage. Often it makes it so I can line up my land drops and if I don't need them space it out so I can loot them away. I also am going lower on lands though with sage. Crane doesn't come down t1 can't get land and our 2 drop spot is just way too full. I really think you want a blue one drop t1 and it's either sage or familiar for me right now. As far as any non creature non artifict cards I just can't get behind any.
Are 3 masters still as good with no pests? I really like the additional blue creatures even though I've been loving sages.
Last Thursday the only match I won the die roll on was the match I lost in 2! I think ballista gives us plenty of opportunities to get back in the game.
Fountain can come down t2 even while you're advancing your aggro plan. Play the deck and see the lines in action. Seas takes time off and isn't really following the deck design imo.
I'm not trying to be rude or shoot people down but theory crafting without playing thedeck quite a bit doesn't help. I made land changes but other than that I ran aces list for 25ish matches before trying to decide what I did and didn't like the most and what cards I wanted to try.
Seas is againt the tax idea that's why I too run 2 fountain and if you have an oboro you can hold off tron a long time. This deck can be just as fast as a zoo deck.
I've tried 4 cmc sb cards and usually they're too late. Scrap trawler is kinda the go to there although vs anger that is an issue.
It's an aggro deck so tempo lost by using a gq or not having the U can hurt.
No damage from our mana base is really nice and fetches would be needed if you were to go the Thalia line but the key is that everything is blue or an artifact.
Chalice would hurt us more than help us and again we tend to be an aggro deck so taking turns off to land a chalice could be worse than killing one turn earlier.
4 Smuggler's Copter
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Artifact Creature (20)
4 Etherium Sculptor
2 Hangarback Walker
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Master of Etherium
4 Signal Pest
4 Walking Ballista
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
3 Sage of Epityr
Land (20)
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Scrying Sheets
11 Snow-Covered Island
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Quicksilver Fountain
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scrap Trawler
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Trinket Mage
2-0 vs affinity-
Lost the die roll so I was on the draw both games. Balista single handily wins this match up. G1 opponent starts fast per usual but t1 sage sets me up to do the same t2. Opponent had no ravager/overseer so balista on 3 with my board being bigger at that point was enough to swing things back in my favor. G2 I keep a hand with 2 blinkmoth, 1 copter, 1 sage, 2 sculptors, 1 chief while opponent mulls to 5 keeping t1 mountain Opal memnite x2 ravager. I take hits for a couple turn drawing yet a third blinkmoth so on opponents t4 i crew my copter with a blinkmoth to block and loot hitting my blue source and killing his ravager because he couldn't go too all in on sacking and keeping less threats. He had 2 imps at this point so he put the counter on one of them. I spit out my hand and take another hit the next turn down to 7. Next turn I cast my trinket mage getting ballista but being greedy decided not to cast it because I can take the hit 1 more turn and have it get bigger. Opponent top decks thoughtsieze and takes my balista then I top deck balista and there is no coming back for him.
Out
4 golem
2 pest
In
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 needle
1 collar
2-0 vs ds jund-
Lost the roll again so I'm on the play. Newer player so I had to explain a lot of interactions. G1 I basically get 2 coppters and a pest swinging every turn for massive damage after he took 5 t1 just from himself. G2 he has a bunch of removal including 1 k command and surgical on sculptors. T3 loadstone sets him too far back and traverse/ds costs him 4 but then I remind him he has to pay the tax and he scoops to lethal on the next turn.
Out
2 masters
4 pest
1 throne
1 sage
In
1 relic
2 trawler
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 collar
0-2 vs storm-
Won the roll so on the play I t1 wanderer t2 sculptor gets remanded t3 sculptor copter then he storms off t3 even through wanderer, while I have loadstone for next turn. G2 I have a great start with sage into sculptor then t3 trinket mage getting cage. Opponent has t3 ritual into shatterstorm so that sucked. I then start beating down with dudes but he has bolt for my copter and once I get him to 3 he combos the next turn. With 5 mana 3 cards in hand he gifts at my end step getting baral, goblin, past, and morphose I give him the creatures because even 2 blockers want enough to live and then he had double ritual and manamorphose in hand so he won. He did suggest I swap piles but idk if it would have mattered. I saw no tax cards g2 and he he his sb cards too but I think it's winnable.
Out
2 master
4 pest
1 walker
In
2 relic
1 cage
2 mage
2 thorn
2-0 vs bant company-
Won the die roll g1 was fairly easy with t1 sage setting up my draws/loots got reflector maged twice but it didn't matter I just straight beat down. G2 I was just on the beatdown plan and once I got out loadstone he couldn't keep up. Masters were nice in this matchup (only one I really got to see them be really good).
Out
4 pest
1 throne
In
2 mage
2 harvester
1 collar
All in all I liked the deck, this was my first chance to play it in paper so there are a lot more things to keep track of where as online p/t is easy to see for combat math. I feel I very likely made a lot of mistakes but the deck just didntcare and got me there.
Before the event I played my buddies boggles deck and I think it's just in winnable for me lol. I went like 1-5 vs it.