A friend helped me test against the UR version today since between us we had all the pieces to throw it together. It's definitely very fast and pretty rough but we actually are not dead against. We can match their go wide starts w/ souls and herder tokens and match their big guys w/ big guys of our own, and if we live long enough we go bigger. Who gets out TKS first seemed to be really important, and the games were always pretty swingy and luck/who drew what when dependent. Our discard is important as unlike the colorless version there aren't any chalices stopping us from doing it. If aggrodrazi becomes a bigger part of the metagame (seems likely) we will definitely have to alter our md/sb w/ more sweepers and other things as well. But the matchup is not an autolose.
I haven't had a chance to test against the fully colorless one but that one seems like it'll be harder for us than the UR version (which is not an easy match-up either)
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
In all honesty while losing eye or temple (or even both) would hurt us a lot I think we'd still be a decent modern deck. In place of temples/eyes we'd probably play more md GQ and caverns or something. So we'd lose speed but gain a little more interactivity. Our creatures and spells are powerful enough on their own that we are still a solid midrange deck even w/out cheating things out. Im hoping we don't get hit w/ a ban at all, and if we do I'm hoping we'll only lose one of our sol lands. but regardless of what happens I think we are probably still a viable, albeit weaker, deck. I will say however that losing eye/temple probably kills all variants of eldrazi that are not-BW processor, as we are probably the version least focused on dumping it's hand onto the field. (It's been a while since I played any of the other variations so if this is false/unfair I apologize).
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Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I think the BW processor version is still absolutely viable. We just saw how good Blight Herder is at allowing you to stabilize in the feature match, and it is certainly the case that the pt meta is very skewed. In a broader tournament I think bw would have a much better showing than any of the versions being played at the protour. This is not to say that it is definitively better, but I do feet BW eldrazi is one of the most resilient versions of the archetype that exists currently, and it has the most solid match ups against the widest range of decks.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I really like the Ulamog one-of, I also like the idea of going down to 1 O-Sower (though I agree they are exceptional in the mirror). I've actually been having a lot of success w/ a singleton displacer and have moved down to two mb stranglers, I have a third in the sb though.
My creature list currently:
-4 Herder
-2 Smasher
-3 TKS
-2 O-Sower
-1 Ulamog
-1 Displacer
-1 Spellskite
-2 Strangler
and souls
There aren't any other eldrazi decks in my meta so I may cut down an o-sower for either a third smasher, a third strangler, or another skite.
Oblivion Sower is great in the Mirror but my issues with him now is that between all the MB discard and TKS, he is usually stripped before he can be played. Also if he bricks on the exile (ie he doesn't hit lands) he only does so much against Vault of the Archangel. Reality Smasher on the other hand is very hard to remove profitably and can't be chumped which means they either trade their Reality Smasher for it or you can put them on the clock.
Yeah I agree w/ all of this, I think whoever gets off their discard first is also really important in the mirror (which is another strong point for Leyline for anyone who wants to try it). I am happy moving down to one sower but im not sure if i want to get rid of it entirely. Ability aside, having an enormous 5/8 body has been really good for me in in some games.
Separate aside, has anyone done any serious testing w/ Endbringer? He was a card I thought had promise before he was just thoroughly outclassed by Smasher and TKS. I tried him out for a bit and generally he didn't make the cut, but if I were to get rid of the last O-sower I might give it another try. Just to see if the flexibility is worth not doing anything when he etb's in place of O-sower's ramp. Alternatively I could just up my number of another creature but we will see.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I really like the Ulamog one-of, I also like the idea of going down to 1 O-Sower (though I agree they are exceptional in the mirror). I've actually been having a lot of success w/ a singleton displacer and have moved down to two mb stranglers, I have a third in the sb though.
My creature list currently:
-4 Herder
-2 Smasher
-3 TKS
-2 O-Sower
-1 Ulamog
-1 Displacer
-1 Spellskite
-2 Strangler
and souls
There aren't any other eldrazi decks in my meta so I may cut down an o-sower for either a third smasher, a third strangler, or another skite.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
2 Eyes is fine, I have been playing 2 without maps and I have never felt the need to up the number.
I'm actually really liking a 1-of md displacer. early game he's a slightly more powerful vanilla body than strangler and reshaper and late game he's a cheap to cast powerhouse.
Sorin Solemn Visitor is interesting, we definitely produce enough tokens in a given game that we can benefit from his ability, and getting BW by turn 4 seems very doable. As of right now I feel PW are kind of spice in the soup for this deck. I want to figure out what numbers of what eldrazi seem to work best, and then once I figure out what can be cut I would like to test w/ Lili and Sorin. (I feel like the spells are pretty on lock).
I've been testing w/ the new Kozilek and I'm really not sure what I think about him. I will say that I've never lost a game where I got to cast him, but I think in most cases a second Ulamog would have been just as good (and I didn't like playing 2 Ulamogs when I tested w/ it) That said, I will say Koz has been good in very specific games. I was able to counter a scapeshift w/ a discarded TKS to win, and in burn and infect matchups I've been able to counter their burn and pump spells w/ discards and relics that would otherwise kind of been dead draws. For now I'm going to leave him in.
Since I know other people are testing w/ Reality Smasher: how worth it has he been to you? He is certainly a powerful difficult to remove threat but he's always seemed a little win more to me. I've never really felt that Smasher helped me win a game I wasn't already more or less in control of. I'm tentatively thinking of taking out my 2 md smashers for 2 md Spellskites, or maybe doing a 1-1 split. Thoughts?
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
How essential do you feel map is? I'm playing a similar list to yours but with md surgical extractions instead of map. I'm happy w/ my results thus far but I'm curious if you have it in there because you feel it ups your chance of consistently casting eldrazi early or because you feel the deck needs it to function.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
So are you guys for or again Tidehollow Sculler? I think it might be a great addition for the early exile + wasteland, but maybe spellskite is just plain better.
I used to really like Sculler, but post OGW it is kind of obsolete. The necessity of playing so many colorless lands makes getting BW on turn 2 (when you want to be playing sculler) more difficult, and TKS provides a better version of the affect on a better body, admittedly at a higher mana-cost. Sculler is still a good card that meshes very well and synergistically w/ Wasteland Strangler in particular, but in what is already a fairly tight decklist we have better cards available.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Since the inclusion of TKS over sculler my early game has seemed a lot slower, and I've occasionally found myself without processing fuel for the early stranglers and herders. For other people running the new cards: how has your early game been? Part of it is just that I haven't been drawing my lingering souls and discard but the addition of cards like TKS and reality smasher has definitely raised the curve of the deck. I am currently running 3 seers and 2 smashers, I have not been doing badly with the new build but it feels much clunkier than the original, and I often find myself winning from behind rather than dominating out of the gate.
I had never been running scullers so I don't know how they felt before. I know people spoken against the main deck Surgical Extraction but it really has been an all-star in my deck. It can turn on herder at instant speed as well as muck with some decks. One of my favorite targets is fetch lands. Many fetches are 4x in decks, which immediately turns on herders, makes sowers better and reduces mana fixing for a lot of decks. However, Extraction does one other thing that people forget. It gives you a ton of information. I get to look through my opponents hand and their library. I get to figure out what type of deck they are playing, and I can also look at the number of key cards they are playing. This lets me play around their hand and gives me a significant advantage.
If you pair it with turn 1 discard, or off of TKS you can help target your extraction to pick apart their hand as well. A lot of players don't expect this card, and they especially don't expect it when you are tapped out.
Anyway, if you are having trouble turning on your processors, give it a shot.
I am already running a surgical and and extirpate md and I agree w/ you, they are awesome. I've had a game against burn where I pulled two bolts out of the opponent's hand on my first turn. How many eye of Ugins do you run? I am on 2 but I could see the argument for 3 now that we have so many more eldrazi
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Since the inclusion of TKS over sculler my early game has seemed a lot slower, and I've occasionally found myself without processing fuel for the early stranglers and herders. For other people running the new cards: how has your early game been? Part of it is just that I haven't been drawing my lingering souls and discard but the addition of cards like TKS and reality smasher has definitely raised the curve of the deck. I am currently running 3 seers and 2 smashers, I have not been doing badly with the new build but it feels much clunkier than the original, and I often find myself winning from behind rather than dominating out of the gate.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
1 Eldrazi Displacer over 1 Strangler. He seems good w/ Seer and Strangler, but I'm not sure if he is worth a spot, anyone been having success w/ him?
1 New Kozilek in place of either all is dust, a reality smasher, or a Blight herder. I really don't think this guy is needed tbh but I kind of want to try him just because I have 1, in the Bx thread someone was saying he is good against burn but idk. thoughts?
1-2 maps in place of...? I have been opposed to the map plan since I dont really feel we need it in the BW version but w/ seer and smasher our curve moves up and finding eldrazi lands early becomes much more important. I don't really know what I'd take out for them but I'm considering it.
All of these are pretty tentative as I've been liking my list so far. Appreciate any and all feedback you guys want to give.
Round 3 vs. Infect. We split prizes, but I give him the win since he has to go. 0-2.
What are your thoughts on Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher? It looks like people are including Thought-Knot Seer, so I plan on getting some on Friday. What about Reality Smasher?
Smasher is good against control, a clock against tron and combo, and another relatively cheap big body against aggro. I'm running 2 and want to test more but I may move down to 1. TKS is very good but I like running 3 more than 4.
@mweissm: I am running a single Newlamog and have been considering trying a single Newzilek since I pulled one at the prerelease. In what match-ups have you found Newzilek to be better than Newlamog?
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Has anyone had success with Newzilek in their build? I opened one at the prerelease and I kind of want to play it but I dont really know if it is really what BW wants.
On the Smasher/Seer note: I'm currently on 3 seers and 2 smashers md and liking that for the time being.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Awesome that this has been upped to tier 2. After further testing I really like TKS as a 3 of, I think 4 is too many but you always want to find 1. I like smasher as a 1-2 of depending on the matchup so I think he will end up being more a metagame call for the BW version. As for everything else I am unsure. I don't think BW wants reshaper or Endbringer, but Displacer is still seeming really good in some matchups, while bad in others. I don't think displacer is really a sb card, but maybe another metagame or personal preference call.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Congratulations on a strong showing Darth Bunny! After your success w/ your current list I'm curious, what kind of changes do you think you'll want to make, if any, post OGW?
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
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A friend helped me test against the UR version today since between us we had all the pieces to throw it together. It's definitely very fast and pretty rough but we actually are not dead against. We can match their go wide starts w/ souls and herder tokens and match their big guys w/ big guys of our own, and if we live long enough we go bigger. Who gets out TKS first seemed to be really important, and the games were always pretty swingy and luck/who drew what when dependent. Our discard is important as unlike the colorless version there aren't any chalices stopping us from doing it. If aggrodrazi becomes a bigger part of the metagame (seems likely) we will definitely have to alter our md/sb w/ more sweepers and other things as well. But the matchup is not an autolose.
I haven't had a chance to test against the fully colorless one but that one seems like it'll be harder for us than the UR version (which is not an easy match-up either)
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Yeah I agree w/ all of this, I think whoever gets off their discard first is also really important in the mirror (which is another strong point for Leyline for anyone who wants to try it). I am happy moving down to one sower but im not sure if i want to get rid of it entirely. Ability aside, having an enormous 5/8 body has been really good for me in in some games.
Separate aside, has anyone done any serious testing w/ Endbringer? He was a card I thought had promise before he was just thoroughly outclassed by Smasher and TKS. I tried him out for a bit and generally he didn't make the cut, but if I were to get rid of the last O-sower I might give it another try. Just to see if the flexibility is worth not doing anything when he etb's in place of O-sower's ramp. Alternatively I could just up my number of another creature but we will see.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
My creature list currently:
-4 Herder
-2 Smasher
-3 TKS
-2 O-Sower
-1 Ulamog
-1 Displacer
-1 Spellskite
-2 Strangler
and souls
There aren't any other eldrazi decks in my meta so I may cut down an o-sower for either a third smasher, a third strangler, or another skite.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
2 Eyes is fine, I have been playing 2 without maps and I have never felt the need to up the number.
I'm actually really liking a 1-of md displacer. early game he's a slightly more powerful vanilla body than strangler and reshaper and late game he's a cheap to cast powerhouse.
Sorin Solemn Visitor is interesting, we definitely produce enough tokens in a given game that we can benefit from his ability, and getting BW by turn 4 seems very doable. As of right now I feel PW are kind of spice in the soup for this deck. I want to figure out what numbers of what eldrazi seem to work best, and then once I figure out what can be cut I would like to test w/ Lili and Sorin. (I feel like the spells are pretty on lock).
I've been testing w/ the new Kozilek and I'm really not sure what I think about him. I will say that I've never lost a game where I got to cast him, but I think in most cases a second Ulamog would have been just as good (and I didn't like playing 2 Ulamogs when I tested w/ it) That said, I will say Koz has been good in very specific games. I was able to counter a scapeshift w/ a discarded TKS to win, and in burn and infect matchups I've been able to counter their burn and pump spells w/ discards and relics that would otherwise kind of been dead draws. For now I'm going to leave him in.
Since I know other people are testing w/ Reality Smasher: how worth it has he been to you? He is certainly a powerful difficult to remove threat but he's always seemed a little win more to me. I've never really felt that Smasher helped me win a game I wasn't already more or less in control of. I'm tentatively thinking of taking out my 2 md smashers for 2 md Spellskites, or maybe doing a 1-1 split. Thoughts?
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I used to really like Sculler, but post OGW it is kind of obsolete. The necessity of playing so many colorless lands makes getting BW on turn 2 (when you want to be playing sculler) more difficult, and TKS provides a better version of the affect on a better body, admittedly at a higher mana-cost. Sculler is still a good card that meshes very well and synergistically w/ Wasteland Strangler in particular, but in what is already a fairly tight decklist we have better cards available.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I am already running a surgical and and extirpate md and I agree w/ you, they are awesome. I've had a game against burn where I pulled two bolts out of the opponent's hand on my first turn. How many eye of Ugins do you run? I am on 2 but I could see the argument for 3 now that we have so many more eldrazi
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
3 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Reality Smasher
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Blight Herder
4 Wasteland Strangler
Spells
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
4 Path to Exile
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Lingering Souls
1 All is Dust
2 Urborg
2 Swamps
3 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Godless Shrine
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Caves of Koilos
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Marsh Flats
SB
Cards I'm thinking of adding:
1 Eldrazi Displacer over 1 Strangler. He seems good w/ Seer and Strangler, but I'm not sure if he is worth a spot, anyone been having success w/ him?
1 New Kozilek in place of either all is dust, a reality smasher, or a Blight herder. I really don't think this guy is needed tbh but I kind of want to try him just because I have 1, in the Bx thread someone was saying he is good against burn but idk. thoughts?
1-2 maps in place of...? I have been opposed to the map plan since I dont really feel we need it in the BW version but w/ seer and smasher our curve moves up and finding eldrazi lands early becomes much more important. I don't really know what I'd take out for them but I'm considering it.
All of these are pretty tentative as I've been liking my list so far. Appreciate any and all feedback you guys want to give.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Smasher is good against control, a clock against tron and combo, and another relatively cheap big body against aggro. I'm running 2 and want to test more but I may move down to 1. TKS is very good but I like running 3 more than 4.
@mweissm: I am running a single Newlamog and have been considering trying a single Newzilek since I pulled one at the prerelease. In what match-ups have you found Newzilek to be better than Newlamog?
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
On the Smasher/Seer note: I'm currently on 3 seers and 2 smashers md and liking that for the time being.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"