Flaying Tendrils appears to be a thing. I am running 2x Zealous Persecution in my board and the question is do I replace them? Persecution is amazing with souls tokens and is a decent sweeper, but the tendril's looks legit.
Im also really intrigued by tendrils, Persecution and Sorrow both have their own upsides but the combo of instant speed and exile is pretty tempting
It is a sorcery. If it was an instant it wouldn't be a question.
Haha my bad,I must have been looking at a bad/early translation, I probably could have figured it out myself if I'd taken the time to look at the word "Hexerei" that makes it a little less awesome, but still a viable alternative depending on what you want out of it.
@Exatraz: To me what makes sculler good is that you can usually snag the one piece of removal they have, and then process that card before they can remove sculler. This happens all the time against aggro, and to a lesser extent against control. Against linear combo like Bloom titan and infect they are understandably powerful as you can pluck out key combo pieces or the cards they need to protect their combo, those decks often don't pack as much removal, relying on their combo for the win, and making sculler less vulnerable. Against midrange and burn sculler is much less powerful, but we are already favored against midrange, can side out sculler for lifegain against burn, and in bothe matchups worst case scenario is sculler eats removal/combat damage so we or another important card dont have to. Even if all sculler does is act as a speed bump, we are a grindy deck that can benefit from that speed bump, and a lot of the time it can be a lot more then that.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Flaying Tendrils appears to be a thing. I am running 2x Zealous Persecution in my board and the question is do I replace them? Persecution is amazing with souls tokens and is a decent sweeper, but the tendril's looks legit.
Im also really intrigued by tendrils, Persecution and Sorrow both have their own upsides but the combo of instant speed and exile is pretty tempting
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
For BW Processors I've only been running 4 fetches, I don't think upping the number would really be that big a deal if you really want to splash a third color though, and as others have said if you run the map plan it's even easier.
I also really like the idea of only 1 godless shrine. We only really need 1 land that produces B and 1 land that produces W to function and if we can get that mana from basics all the better as far as I'm concerned. It also reduces the pain of our manabase a little, which I think is probably a good direction to go in.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Yes im sure it's just a preference call. I Still like scullers and extirpates md so I don't feel the need for bog, and i am also running more md GQ, upping my chances of drawing them w/out having to tutor. I personally would rather have other cards in the slot but it seems like all variants are doing well map or no map, so if it ain't broke don't fix it I suppose
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
So after doing more testing and playing against a wider variety of decks I've come to believe 2 things:
1) I really think this BW build is real, I know we all knew it was solid and fun but my testing has found it to be really good against a large portion of the modern field, and to have game against even its' more difficult match ups.
2) I really don't think we need expedition map. Dropping our fatties as soon as possible is nice, but it's not like it instantly wins us the game like for Tron. This makes the big draw for map its' ability to grab out the utility land we want when we want it. However, I really feel that the card slot and mana you spend on map can just as easily be used on more removal/disruption. Think of it this way, against Tron game 1 if you have 2 maps and 2 GQ in your deck you are just as likely to draw a GQ as a map, admittedly map can help you find a GQ, but you'll need to have 3 open mana and not have played your land for the turn if you want to use GQ that turn. I know decks running map have been doing very well, and I also only play paper so I cannot say I face as large and likely diverse a meta as MTGO, but I personally have found I would rather use card slots for more removal/hand disruption than on ramp cards like map.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
One question, against what should be our gameplan both before/after SB?
Not sure I understand the question, do you mean for one particular matchup or just in general?
@robbietaro: Radiant Purge is (I feel) too conditional, but your meta may have a lot more multicolored permanents running around then mine does.
Once again echoing the sentiment that there is a separate thread for BW processors, there is a lot of good discussion/innovation going on in the <>B thread but there are also just so many different versions being discussed that things kind of get lost in the shuffle.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Honestly I think splashing a Blood Crypt to add Slaughter Games to the sideboard is going to increase our games against Scapeshift and it along with Ghost Quarters can slow down the Tron matchup. Just a
small splash of red nothing to fancy.
I think this would be fine, but it's also probably something I'd only do if i knew/suspected there was going to be a lot of scapeshift around (since i think we have fine answers to the majority of linear combo decks) how many slaughter games would you play in the sb?
@Ronloony another option for burn/storm/discard decks is leyline of sanctity. It can slow them down until they find a way to remove it, by which time you may have stabilized
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Castigate might work depending on how controlling your build is, but iok/ts are probably better as discard since they are cheaper, and sculler/maggot are probably better as hand exile since they can potentially take a card and leave behind a body.
Beckon apparition and cremate are decent but we already have better gy exile options in relic/bog/extirpate
Reciprocate and titan's presence are pretty conditional, and you want your removal to be as universally available as possible. Reciprocate can't save you from twin and presence is only usable if you have another card in hand
Transgress is decent against tron, but even w/ exiling this is a 2 mana discard that cant hit a lot of important cards in modern. Ts and iok are probably better the majority of the time.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Well, sounds good, I'm convinced. Time to pick up a couple vents while they are still comparatively cheap. I agree that we can ignore Moon a lot more than the other Processor decks and Lili isn't awesome against us because of souls.
Also, meant to say this earlier, but if anyone else is testing main deck scullers please let me know how they are working for you. I am curious to know if they are as good as I think they are or if it is just a case of my meta being very favorable to them.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Really?! I'd kind of assumed it would just get bolted or otherwise scorched out in the burn match up. I guess I'll get a couple and try running them. It would be nice to have some main deck advantage against burn as that would free up a little sb space. After looking at everyone else's lists I still like 2 mb GQ but I can definitely see moving down to 6 basics and maybe less fetchs to accomadate some combination of Vents/Urborg/Eye. Purely out of curiosity has anyone else been running Ruin Processor over Rest for the Weary in the SB? I've found him to be really good at stabilizing and clinching the win against aggro, but the instant speed and cheap mana cost of Rest is super tempting.
Btw Tutti_Frutii your list looks solid. For the free slot I would personally say that in modern you can never go wrong w/ more spot removal. We have Pact and Go For the Throat if you want cheap one for one against creatures or you could try O-ring/utter end if you like the idea of a one-of catch all answer.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Of course the main draw for relic is that it cantrips but shrinking goyfs comes up occasionally and it's nice to have the ability to do so.
@Beautox: a few questions, how good/reliable have manlsnds and the third eye been? I'm leery about reducing my number of basics because of how much blood moon i see, but they seem like good utility. Also, i remember you were also testing w/ Utter End, would you say it is better than o-ring? Worse? A mix should be played? Lastly, I'm curious as to why you want to drop the extirpate package, do you just prefer the map angle and there's only so much space? Decklist and sb look good btw, i agree that the core list is really starting to take form
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
if you don't leave relic in, wouldn't it be detrimental to blight herder not having enough processing targets?
Between Path, Sculler, Extirpate, O-Ring, and O-Sower in the mid to late game you generally have more than enough things exiled to feed herder. A single extirpate or surgical extraction is enough to set up a herder on its' own.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Depends on the matchup. Against Tron, we don't need the gy hate and there aren't many strangler targets (e.g. we don't need early exile as much) so I tend to board out all the relics. Against affinity, where you have a lot of good strangler targets, I tend to leave in 1-2 relic as an additional exile source. Reducing the number means you can potentially draw it early, and play and pop before Stony comes down. This also makes it so that if you draw Stony first you've reduced your chances of drawing a dead card.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Haha my bad,I must have been looking at a bad/early translation, I probably could have figured it out myself if I'd taken the time to look at the word "Hexerei" that makes it a little less awesome, but still a viable alternative depending on what you want out of it.
@Exatraz: To me what makes sculler good is that you can usually snag the one piece of removal they have, and then process that card before they can remove sculler. This happens all the time against aggro, and to a lesser extent against control. Against linear combo like Bloom titan and infect they are understandably powerful as you can pluck out key combo pieces or the cards they need to protect their combo, those decks often don't pack as much removal, relying on their combo for the win, and making sculler less vulnerable. Against midrange and burn sculler is much less powerful, but we are already favored against midrange, can side out sculler for lifegain against burn, and in bothe matchups worst case scenario is sculler eats removal/combat damage so we or another important card dont have to. Even if all sculler does is act as a speed bump, we are a grindy deck that can benefit from that speed bump, and a lot of the time it can be a lot more then that.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Im also really intrigued by tendrils, Persecution and Sorrow both have their own upsides but the combo of instant speed and exile is pretty tempting
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I also really like the idea of only 1 godless shrine. We only really need 1 land that produces B and 1 land that produces W to function and if we can get that mana from basics all the better as far as I'm concerned. It also reduces the pain of our manabase a little, which I think is probably a good direction to go in.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
1) I really think this BW build is real, I know we all knew it was solid and fun but my testing has found it to be really good against a large portion of the modern field, and to have game against even its' more difficult match ups.
2) I really don't think we need expedition map. Dropping our fatties as soon as possible is nice, but it's not like it instantly wins us the game like for Tron. This makes the big draw for map its' ability to grab out the utility land we want when we want it. However, I really feel that the card slot and mana you spend on map can just as easily be used on more removal/disruption. Think of it this way, against Tron game 1 if you have 2 maps and 2 GQ in your deck you are just as likely to draw a GQ as a map, admittedly map can help you find a GQ, but you'll need to have 3 open mana and not have played your land for the turn if you want to use GQ that turn. I know decks running map have been doing very well, and I also only play paper so I cannot say I face as large and likely diverse a meta as MTGO, but I personally have found I would rather use card slots for more removal/hand disruption than on ramp cards like map.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Not sure I understand the question, do you mean for one particular matchup or just in general?
@robbietaro: Radiant Purge is (I feel) too conditional, but your meta may have a lot more multicolored permanents running around then mine does.
Once again echoing the sentiment that there is a separate thread for BW processors, there is a lot of good discussion/innovation going on in the <>B thread but there are also just so many different versions being discussed that things kind of get lost in the shuffle.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I think this would be fine, but it's also probably something I'd only do if i knew/suspected there was going to be a lot of scapeshift around (since i think we have fine answers to the majority of linear combo decks) how many slaughter games would you play in the sb?
@Ronloony another option for burn/storm/discard decks is leyline of sanctity. It can slow them down until they find a way to remove it, by which time you may have stabilized
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Beckon apparition and cremate are decent but we already have better gy exile options in relic/bog/extirpate
Reciprocate and titan's presence are pretty conditional, and you want your removal to be as universally available as possible. Reciprocate can't save you from twin and presence is only usable if you have another card in hand
Transgress is decent against tron, but even w/ exiling this is a 2 mana discard that cant hit a lot of important cards in modern. Ts and iok are probably better the majority of the time.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Also, meant to say this earlier, but if anyone else is testing main deck scullers please let me know how they are working for you. I am curious to know if they are as good as I think they are or if it is just a case of my meta being very favorable to them.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Btw Tutti_Frutii your list looks solid. For the free slot I would personally say that in modern you can never go wrong w/ more spot removal. We have Pact and Go For the Throat if you want cheap one for one against creatures or you could try O-ring/utter end if you like the idea of a one-of catch all answer.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
@Beautox: a few questions, how good/reliable have manlsnds and the third eye been? I'm leery about reducing my number of basics because of how much blood moon i see, but they seem like good utility. Also, i remember you were also testing w/ Utter End, would you say it is better than o-ring? Worse? A mix should be played? Lastly, I'm curious as to why you want to drop the extirpate package, do you just prefer the map angle and there's only so much space? Decklist and sb look good btw, i agree that the core list is really starting to take form
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Between Path, Sculler, Extirpate, O-Ring, and O-Sower in the mid to late game you generally have more than enough things exiled to feed herder. A single extirpate or surgical extraction is enough to set up a herder on its' own.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"