For Tron Pithing needle seems really good, as does Mindcensor. I've actually been having a lot of success w/ GQ and and Exteripate[/card/Surgical Extraction. It's not even really card disadvantage because you take out their 4 tron lands. Another option is stony silence out of the board, we probably want this for affinity anyway, and turning off our own relics isn't a huge deal since tron generally doesn't use it's gy as much (barring academy ruins recursion which we still have GQ/Extirpate for) I have only had the chance to play the monoU variant so far but I have found MD GQ to be enough.
Personal card preference: I don't think this variant needs mindstone or expedition map since we are slower and more controlling than monoB and BR. It may be a meta call but I think we can better use that spot for spot removal or discard.
@VrynsMindMage: Tormod's is probably ok, but the big benefit of relic is that it cantrips. Also exiling everyone's yard is a good way to shrink Goyfs.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Mana base is intentional, I wanted maindeck GQ for manlands and tron, single Godless shrine is to reduce shock-pain/bloodmoon impact, and three Caves of Koilos is partially in anticipation of OGW and maybe needing colorless sources, and partially to act as lands that can enter untapped and give mana, but still give B or W if absolutely necessary. I'll admit I haven't tested w/ them but I'm really not sure if Cavern of Souls is necessary. Strangler tends to come down before counters do, and if they remand herder or sower it kind of works in our favor since we get their effect all over again. I would rather have the GQ's overs Cavern.
Sculler has actually been surprisingly powerful, I have always been easily able to get BW to cast it and it has been working out. A typical play has been: turn 2 sculler takes their removal. Turn three Strangler processes the removal and kills their dude, sculler swings in for 2. It sounds like Christmas land but it's been happening a lot. Against decks that play a lot of cheap sweepers and spot removal they should definitely be sided out but the majority of the time they do a surprising amount of work. That said, I could definitely see moving down to 3 and switching to Brain Maggot for the affect. The difference between 2/2 and 1/1 in modern isn't really that big since the affect is the same.
Sideboard: I have a lot of Burn/Skred/Storm in my mata and no affinity so I don't need artifact hate. Going into a larger event I think you definitely want Stony Silence. Witchbane orb is there due to budget and me not owning Leyline of Sanctity (which I feel is all around better). Celestial Purge does work against a surprisingly large amount of decks, I think running less than 2 in the SB is a mistake. Dismember is for aggro but I could see switching out 1 or 2 for Drown in Sorrow
Card Choices: Extirpate and Surgical Extraction are really good, I will probably move up to 3 MD or keep 2 but put a third in the board. I have been switching back and forth between O-Ring and Utter End and can't decide if the lower mana-cost is worth sorcery speed and potentially not being permanent. Thoughts on this?
@Master_Hades
First, thanks for formatting the deck! is their a place on the forums that explains how to do it? I was the only eldrazi player that night but one of them said he is working on an esper list.
Second, 4 MD Stranglers is essential, I was skeptical at first too but he's worth it the majority of the time. Relic frequently keeps Goyfs small enough to be killed by it, and rhinos and delve dudes can be strangled post combat. (Additionally, from playing against Grixis and Abzan, my experience has been that by the time big delve dudes come out you have a herder or sower ready to rumble with them). Against token swarms he takes out one and presents a threat while your souls and scions match the others. I agree w/ you that Maggot should be switched for sculler.
Final thoughts, I think we're really onto something here. The ability of this deck to come back from behind w/ souls, herder or all is dust is incredible, and not as available to the other versions of processors. I also feel, since WB seems to be slower and grind more that the other variations, that we are less reliant on the eldrazi lands than BR and monoB, which is a strength in and of itself.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Easy match-up, early relic took game one and in game two iok/extirpate on Living End took out his combo, he conceded after an Oblivion Sower came out.
Game 2: 2-0 vs Mono Green infect
Moderate, Souls, Strangler, and having main deck Ghost Quarters for Ink Moth did work in these games. Game 1 I managed to run him out of creatures and killed him even though I was at 8 poison. Game 2 (Post Sideboard) I got an early skite and took the game because he couldn't play his pump spells
Game 3: 2-1 vs Burn
Game one he got me w/ a main deck Blood Moon and then burned me out before I could find a basic. Game too I sided in Celestial purge, ruin processor, Forge-tender, skite and witchbane orb and took the next two games with all the hate I had for red (there's burn, skred, and storm in my meta so I came prepared)
Game 4: 2-1 vs Temur Twin
Game one I kept his goyfs small and stalled w/ relic and souls and took out his combo w/ thoughtsieze/surgical extraction on splinter twin. After that my big creatures loomed over his and took the game. Game two he bolted the sculler that was hiding his deciever exarch before I could process it and I got twinned out. Game 3 I pathed his twin target and he never recovered.
Conclusion: I feel this deck is really quite powerful, and the BW version in particular can have a decent match-up against almost anything. Once the list is tuned I could easily see eldrazi moving up the tiers. In the mean time if anyone has any advice on how to improve my list I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks in advance!
Yeah even without lingering souls RIP is not what this deck wants. I only know because my first tests w/ processors were all built around RIP XD. Basically, unless you're playing a gy dependant deck that RIP would hose anyway, it's too much of a tempo loss. What makes relic good for us is it can cantrip, comes down for only 1 mana, and getting stuck w/ multiples doesn't necessarily suck. On all fronts the opposite is true with RIP. I really want to build a deck that revolves around RIP but i don't think this is that deck.
My lgs does a monday night modern thing so i'm going to test my build tonight, i'll post here w/ the matchups and results
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Spellskite out of the board has been really good for me as an ace against combo and an early wall against aggro, I would go up to 2. I'm personally not sold on Cavern of souls in this deck but I think it may be a meta decision for cavern vs ghost quarter. I would personally replace two copies of Ghostly Prison with Celestial Purge since it can stop twin while also hitting Blood Moon and big delve dudes. Still going to be looking at the <>B thread for ideas but good to have a thread dedicated to focusing on the BW version, thanks!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
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Personal card preference: I don't think this variant needs mindstone or expedition map since we are slower and more controlling than monoB and BR. It may be a meta call but I think we can better use that spot for spot removal or discard.
@VrynsMindMage: Tormod's is probably ok, but the big benefit of relic is that it cantrips. Also exiling everyone's yard is a good way to shrink Goyfs.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
@Beautox:
Mana base is intentional, I wanted maindeck GQ for manlands and tron, single Godless shrine is to reduce shock-pain/bloodmoon impact, and three Caves of Koilos is partially in anticipation of OGW and maybe needing colorless sources, and partially to act as lands that can enter untapped and give mana, but still give B or W if absolutely necessary. I'll admit I haven't tested w/ them but I'm really not sure if Cavern of Souls is necessary. Strangler tends to come down before counters do, and if they remand herder or sower it kind of works in our favor since we get their effect all over again. I would rather have the GQ's overs Cavern.
Sculler has actually been surprisingly powerful, I have always been easily able to get BW to cast it and it has been working out. A typical play has been: turn 2 sculler takes their removal. Turn three Strangler processes the removal and kills their dude, sculler swings in for 2. It sounds like Christmas land but it's been happening a lot. Against decks that play a lot of cheap sweepers and spot removal they should definitely be sided out but the majority of the time they do a surprising amount of work. That said, I could definitely see moving down to 3 and switching to Brain Maggot for the affect. The difference between 2/2 and 1/1 in modern isn't really that big since the affect is the same.
Sideboard: I have a lot of Burn/Skred/Storm in my mata and no affinity so I don't need artifact hate. Going into a larger event I think you definitely want Stony Silence. Witchbane orb is there due to budget and me not owning Leyline of Sanctity (which I feel is all around better). Celestial Purge does work against a surprisingly large amount of decks, I think running less than 2 in the SB is a mistake. Dismember is for aggro but I could see switching out 1 or 2 for Drown in Sorrow
Card Choices: Extirpate and Surgical Extraction are really good, I will probably move up to 3 MD or keep 2 but put a third in the board. I have been switching back and forth between O-Ring and Utter End and can't decide if the lower mana-cost is worth sorcery speed and potentially not being permanent. Thoughts on this?
@Master_Hades
First, thanks for formatting the deck! is their a place on the forums that explains how to do it? I was the only eldrazi player that night but one of them said he is working on an esper list.
Second, 4 MD Stranglers is essential, I was skeptical at first too but he's worth it the majority of the time. Relic frequently keeps Goyfs small enough to be killed by it, and rhinos and delve dudes can be strangled post combat. (Additionally, from playing against Grixis and Abzan, my experience has been that by the time big delve dudes come out you have a herder or sower ready to rumble with them). Against token swarms he takes out one and presents a threat while your souls and scions match the others. I agree w/ you that Maggot should be switched for sculler.
Final thoughts, I think we're really onto something here. The ability of this deck to come back from behind w/ souls, herder or all is dust is incredible, and not as available to the other versions of processors. I also feel, since WB seems to be slower and grind more that the other variations, that we are less reliant on the eldrazi lands than BR and monoB, which is a strength in and of itself.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
(I haven't ever tried to post a deck list to MTG Salvation before so my apologies if it comes out looking weird)
Kruphix7's BW Eldrazi
Sideboard
Match-ups
Game 1: 2-0 vs living end
Easy match-up, early relic took game one and in game two iok/extirpate on Living End took out his combo, he conceded after an Oblivion Sower came out.
Game 2: 2-0 vs Mono Green infect
Moderate, Souls, Strangler, and having main deck Ghost Quarters for Ink Moth did work in these games. Game 1 I managed to run him out of creatures and killed him even though I was at 8 poison. Game 2 (Post Sideboard) I got an early skite and took the game because he couldn't play his pump spells
Game 3: 2-1 vs Burn
Game one he got me w/ a main deck Blood Moon and then burned me out before I could find a basic. Game too I sided in Celestial purge, ruin processor, Forge-tender, skite and witchbane orb and took the next two games with all the hate I had for red (there's burn, skred, and storm in my meta so I came prepared)
Game 4: 2-1 vs Temur Twin
Game one I kept his goyfs small and stalled w/ relic and souls and took out his combo w/ thoughtsieze/surgical extraction on splinter twin. After that my big creatures loomed over his and took the game. Game two he bolted the sculler that was hiding his deciever exarch before I could process it and I got twinned out. Game 3 I pathed his twin target and he never recovered.
Conclusion: I feel this deck is really quite powerful, and the BW version in particular can have a decent match-up against almost anything. Once the list is tuned I could easily see eldrazi moving up the tiers. In the mean time if anyone has any advice on how to improve my list I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks in advance!
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
My lgs does a monday night modern thing so i'm going to test my build tonight, i'll post here w/ the matchups and results
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"