Kalitas, traitor of Ghet is a card that's been used as lifelink/4-drop in the past, I was running one up until a month or so ago. I took him out because I just wasn't seeing enough burn/aggro to justify the lifelink part of Kalitas as being necessary, and the exile + token effect just doesn't do a whole lot when we have paths and when we are already usually favored in grindy mid-range matchups. But I could definitely see using this card in a meta where you're facing lots of burn, delver, and other aggro decks.
I think the big thing in Damnation vs. Wrath isn't really a mana issue as it is there's just more creatures/spells that give protection to white.
I am definitely a fan of EE, I think it's such a sick card because so many problem creatures are CMC 2 or less, and as herfs said it can be a turn faster than ratchet bomb, and late game can blow up for 0-2 CMC on 1 turn. I actually run 1 ratchet and 2 EE total in my 75, I've been liking the versatility of ratchet bomb in the maindeck.
I'm not too sure about Fulminator, then again I haven't tested it as well. Sure it's land destruction for 3 mana but that's all it does and you will probably cut Reshaper or Strangler for it since it's in that slot and I'm not sure that is what you'd want. GQ does that same but will still give your opponent a land back IF they still have basics in their deck.
IF you would add Batterskull, what would you cut for it?
Well its a sideboard card, so all I need it for is land destruction against a few key matchups that will determine whether I get a top spot for the night. Not sure if you're wondering what I'd take out for it post-sideboard, or you thought I was talking about maindecking fulminator. For instance against tron and through the breach I'd have no issues taking out a strangler or two, there is literally nothing to use its -3/-3 on. For Batterskull, I'd probably move the ratchet in my main to the side and maybe go down to 1 EE in the side? Not sure.
Going to five is not great, but drawing each of two cards needed to make a hand live is really pretty unlikely. Mulligan decisions are one of the most skill-intensive parts of the game and require insight into the deck and the matchup, both. Last time I mulled to five--twice--against Suicide Zoo, I was able to win because I found the removal I needed to survive.
Both Relic and Mind Stone help make iffy land draws much better; Stone because of ramp and Relic because it is an added card for cheap on any turn after T1.
Any experience with Fulminator Mage yet? Let us know after you have enough matches to draw conclusions.
Yeah, you're probably right to pitch the 6 hand. As I said the few times I've gone down to 5 I've been displeased so I'm biased. Almost always I try to stick to the rule that I don't keep hands that have cards I don't have the lands/colors to play, and am depending on a certain top deck to make it work,
I haven't had near enough experience to make a decision on Fulminator, I only play once every two weeks typically so I've only had two FNMs since I picked them up. The first time, I had it in the opener against bant eldrazi, but it ended up being a super weird game where shutting down an early temple was irrelevant, we both went an absurdly long time without drawing gas. The next time, the players I brought the fulms in for weren't attending. I brought them in because the best players at my LGS play bant eldrazi, tron, and through the breach/Valakut. I feel it's a pretty good card against both tron and through the breach. I just haven't had the number of FNMs to show how well it performs. I'm also wary of only having one in the side, because it's a card you want to have ready to play t3 against tron and bant eldrazi, and asap when a Valakut hits the field, so running two seems a better idea than hoping to have a single copy in your opening hand.
How do you feel about Batterskull in the current state of modern? I was running it a while back but took it out with herders to add reshapers, but I've been thinking about adding it back in. If only we could more consistently ramp it out on T4 than just mind stones. Feels like T5 is a turn too slow against burn/aggro.
I reminded myself about the danger of keeping two-land openers that are full of big Eldrazi, which is a truly key insight into playing the deck. Hands like that are a trap and should be avoided; if the hand includes a Lingering Souls (AND you can scry and/or are on the draw) then it MAY pan out, but it is still a big risk, especially in a fast meta like the current one.
I don't know, that is such a tough one. I have been so let down by like every 5 card hand I've seen, it feels so bad going down to 5 because you know if it's a trash hand you've just thrown the game away before turn 1. With that 6 all you need is a temple in the first 3 draws or two lands in the first 3 draws, or a land and a mind stone. Or a land and a lingering souls in the first 3 draws. Oh I totally forgot about scrying, so factor in a scry in there to boost the probability. I see so many ways for that hand to pan out, and percentage wise it feels like the better option than going down to 5. When I goldfish with tron I go down to 4 all day err day and don't care in the slightest, but when I do it with processors it feels so painful to go below 6. Like i legit hate it. Maybe that's just a bias I've had based on my small sample size and string of luck with 5 card hands.
I haven't been playing modern in ages, but I regularly read Modern Reddit. It had a thread about budget Midrange decks, and this deck was mentioned by the person who is deaddrift here I believe. I've read posts from the last 20 pages and I've een playtesting this deck on cockatrice with surprisingly good results (although hardly ever against tier decks).
I'm considering purchasing it. I've been playing B/W tokens and this deck is basically a souped up version of it. That said; I'm wary of buying a deck that's not even classified as competitive by MTG Salvation. What is the honest opinion of you guys? Will this deck ever compete against the likes of Collected Company Combo, Merfolk or - dare I say it - Affinity, Delver and Jund? Because that's basically my FNM location. The one good thing about where I play FNMs is that it's mostly all tier decks (even visited by some pro tour players), but never seen ANY tron there! Lucky me, huh? \
tl;dr: Do you think this deck will ever become a tier deck again?
In order to become a 'tiered deck' it needs to get a huge influx of players, and in order for a bunch of players to start playing it it needs to have some dominant performance(s) on the pro/large-scale tournament scene. Did Dredge get any more powerful all of a sudden? No, it had a whole ***** load of decks in the top 32 of some SCG tournament, everyone thinks "hey the deck must be strong and must be able to win lots, I want to switch to it NOW", and within a week after that its 10% of the meta. Decks become tiered by becoming more popular, not stronger.
Processors right now, in my opinion, has legit game against a massive portion of the current modern meta, and honestly I'd say path, relic, and ramping reshaper/tks/smasher out 1-2 turns early are the largest reasons for that. Relic is seriously a house, many times I'll play 4 rounds at an FNM and realize every single opponent had something I could get value out of relic exiling. The deck has different approaches against decks trying to win different ways, and feels incredibly flexible in that regard. As jwf239 said, it feels like it rewards practice, tight play, and knowledge of the opponent's deck and strategy and overall modern format, very much. I had been away from MTG for like 12 years and started playing again in January of this year. I picked modern for my format and jumped right in, choosing processors because I loved eldrazi right away. Starting from getting absolutely destroyed my first couple months because I didn't know the format AT ALL, or any cards AT ALL, or even the more complex rules of the game like the stack, to now almost a year later and I'm one of the few people at FNM consistently playing for/tying for first after starting 3-0. I feel like with each game or match loss, I can pinpoint why that loss happened; a mistake or two or more, drawing/mulliganing extremely unlucky/poorly with lands, or getting unlucky in not drawing your key sideboard/removal/discard/etc. when you have plenty of copies in the deck. Reflecting on why you lost the game, and what you could have done to as little as increase your percentage of winning had you had a chance for a do-over, is how you improve as a player IMO. This deck is absolutely capable of crushing at an FNM level, and from what I've seen from others even at a PPTQ level. So unless you're planning on traveling the country and attending larger than PPTQ tournaments and doing well enough to net a profit, this deck is every bit as competitive as jund/abzan/infect/affinity/whatever else.
I will close with saying the one thing I am worried about is processors getting some collateral damage from bant eldrazi and getting Eldrazi Temple banned. Hopefully dredge's rise has taken the heat off bant eldrazi, but you never know what wizards is thinking. When I first picked up the deck I was on the Eye of Ugin, Oblivion sower and blight herder ramping into Ulamog version. God that version was fun. Then Oath hits and it brings TKS, smasher, and Eldrazi Mimic. The eldrazi winter begins and it had something like well over 20% of the format I believe. Eye of Ugin gets banned and our little processors project gets the shaft. If we get hit again due to the bant eldrazi salt I would be so crushed. I really believe that wizards wants eldrazi in the format, so I would lean toward a non-ban of Temple, but I worry about this deck getting yet another setback after it's what I've invested into. I do have R/G tron built as well (I guess I like ramp and big beats, big whoop, wanna fight about it?) and I'd have no problem going to that, its super fun for me to play, but I just love playing a non-linear deck that plays both reactive and proactive, that plays like Jund but has way more gas with temple and smasher, and is like less than 1/4 the price.
Have you considered running fulminator in the side at all? It's good against tron and valakut decks, bringing in one to slow down an early temple by bant eldrazi can help a matchup that is definitely in their favor due to ancient stirrings and nobles, and if you've got the room to board them in its good against infect as well. Except infect I'd say all those matchups are slightly favored to favored for the opponent, so it might be good to shore them up. I run into titanbreach, bant eldrazi, and infect quite a bit in 2-0 and 3-0 rounds at FNM (best and most consistent players are piloting those decks), so I'm trying two fulms in the side. Ive been trying to hone in my sideboard/flex slots in the main board for my local meta and I always find it hard because there's usually one or two cards that I'd like in the 75 but can't quite fit them in (right now I can't get a 2nd Co. Brut. Or 2nd anguished in the 75).
I like your take on 3 Thoughtseize and 1 co. brut. in the main, that definitely helped me trim a slot. I'm also thinking of running 4 reshaper and 3 strangler, because it feels really good to drop a T2 reshaper and I love how people seem to path it all the time. I am wary about the change as strangler is the only processor so trimming it might make relics less important.
The two matchups Processors most often brings Stony Silence in are Tron and Affinity. In both cases you're going to be siding out most or all 4 relics, and in affinity I side out the mind stones as well as they slow you down too much if you don't accelerate a TKS or Smasher. Also it is good against Ad Nauseum, which can be tough as well. Basically its a powerful enough hate card in what can be some bad matchups, I'm currently debating whether I should run one or two in my sideboard.
I've seen some people do it, but I don't think blood moon is prevalent enough in a given 4 round tournament to warrant a slot. There's a good chance you won't face it, and then that waste is possibly costing you a B/W source you really needed but did not have. Also with 2x mind stone and 4 caves of koilos, outside of a blood moon on the board I have very rarely ran into issues producing a colorless for reshaper, TKS, or smasher. If blood moon is costing you games and matches more often than me, it might be a good thing to do. But I like to have my manabase, as much as I can, guarantee that I will not be short on B/W for a critical spell on a critical turn. For me having a waste in my 24 lands hurts that too much.
The reason I want to bring Anguished or Ratchet in as an answer to moon and other things is because I don't want to basically concede game 1 if it hits the board. I also have more success trying to remove blood moon than play around it with getting basics after it hits the field. I don't like the odds of needing to either have one of your 3 marsh flats on the field to fetch in response to blood moon being cast, or path your own creature, best case scenario a spirit token, once a blood moon has been cast. Oh by the way where did the white source come for that souls and that path because you have 3 basics in the deck and that blood moon just hit the board on T2 or T3. Personally I think the best way to beat an early blood moon is to drop a T2 or T3 reshaper or strangler for some board presence before moon is played, and then cantrip and dig for the moon removal because your board presence probably saved you some turns. Also Mind stones help cast TKS and smasher with a blood moon on the field.
Right now I'm thinking Ratchet Bomb because the versatility and board presence fit the style of the deck, and if there's a blood moon on the field, Anguished costing B/W has a pretty high chance of being uncastable with 3 total plains and swamps in the deck. And I'm leaning toward trimming a relic from the main for it, because the need to process has lessened with cutting herders, but there is generally a lot of graveyard play going on and I'm not sure if that's a good call.
Sorry for the rant, I just see many people taking that angle against blood moon and I don't think it's the way to go.
Hey guys I've been very busy so I haven't been posting here much the past couple weeks. I've still been playing the deck at FNM whenever I can and it's been crushing the local meta there, in the past three FNMS I've attended I've gone 3-0-1 twice (both draws intentional in the 4th round to tie for first), and 2-0-1 where the tie was in round two to a U/W control deck. I've been really enjoying the decks versatility against the field and I'll continue playing my list over a sculler list as long as I'm doing this well with it.
My current list is hereand I've got a question about a change I'd like to make for FNM tomorrow. I'd like to move an anguished or ratchet bomb from the side and into the main (probably put in a grafidggers in the open SB slot) in order to have a game 1 answer to things like ensnaring bridge and blood moon. First, which of the two should I move to the main? Secondly, what should be cut to make room? Sorin, a relic, a strangler, mind stone, something else? Any discussion or input is appreciated.
Also blessed alliance is good against bant eldrazi, because it would let us draw off an opposing TKS leaving the battlefield, and also remove a smasher without having to discard. It is great on T2-T4 when the bant player had a noble hierarch and a solo smasher/tks attacking.
Edit: and I feel we need all the help we can get against bant eldrazi because it has more consistent volatile openings.
Went 3-0-1 at FNM tonight, tying for first out of 14 players. I was 3-0 going into the last round and drew with my opponent. He was on through the breach and we played the games out and I won 2-0, which I was surprised by as usually when I face it is faster than me in the race. Both games had both him getting a slow opener and me getting T2 and/or T3 3-drop eldrazi to start an early clock. I am really digging going from 3 Stranglers to now having 7 total 3 drops in 4 Stranglers and 3 Reshapers. I am seeing T2 plays of these drops surprisingly often. I'm also liking having 4 Stranglers and no more Herders to compete for cards to process. The cantrip angle is helping in grindy and top-deck games, and I feel like I'm getting even more consistency with my creatures now that they are almost all 4-ofs, and just general seeing the deck perform really consistently against the whole field as long as I have the lands (and am not flooding). I feel like many games I have the tools or a strategy to get a win.
I've added a Fetid Heath, I picked one up recently because if the Sculler version continues to put up results I would try that out, and wanted to have the Fetid Heath ready for that. But I put some thought into my current list, and decided that it's a card that can definitely be useful with my particular 75. I was able to add a Kalitas in with the Heath, which I think is just a strong card in the current modern meta as it helps greatly against burn and zoo and general aggro decks, and also is an all-star in the midrange grindy mirrors. And like Matter Reshaper, if it eats removal I am more than happy with that, because that means that removal is not being used on a TKS or a Smasher. The only creatures I care about staying alive/sticking on the board are TKS and Smasher, because TKS gives them a draw and I want smasher to be beating down their face and getting 2 or 3-for-1'd with blockers because it's so big to most all other creatures. If Reshaper gets pathed so I don't get the on death trigger, I am so pleased with that because that Path is no longer in their hand and I get ramped. Yes please! This happens fairly often as well.
Back to the Fetid Heath. With Kalitas, 2x Shambling Vents, Sorin, Vault of the Archangel, Anguished Unmaking, and (something that I personally didn't figure was too important as it happens to be not an issue very often) turn 5 casting a Lingering Souls and flashing it back in the same main phase. The last one actually happened tonight, where it was T5 and my play was exactly a cast+flashback Souls, and the Heath gave me my colors. That's 6 cards not including Souls that benefit from Heath. But what made me go with it for this weekend was the sideboard, which adds an additional 2x Damnations and 2x EE (for CMC = 2). That's 10 cards, so I think it might be worth a land slot. It could potentially help quite a bit in a land base that I wouldn't call shaky, but maybe stretched thin.
Round 1: Against Death's Shadow Zoo. Both games 1 and 2 were basically him paining himself down to 5-10 life, and not having Death's Shadow for the payoff. He literally played one both games combined, and I had so much removal between paths and Strangler's for his Nacatls. Game two Shambling Vent brought it home in 3 turns after he pained himself to 6 and I had removal in hand as soon as the one Death's Shadow hit the board.
Round 2: Against some form of Abzan Company, to be honest I have a really hard time telling what the hell version of this creature toolbox deck I'm up against as they are all so damn similar. This one had something I'd never seen before, which involved Using some blue enchantment, a utility land, and a creature that basically had him pump the creature up to 19/19 and make it unblockable. I had never seen this before and maybe someone else can clear up the cards/combo I'm talking about. The match went to 3 games and he won game 2 with this combo, I could have 100% prevented it the turn prior by ripping the enchantment from his land with TKS but since I had no clue about what was about to happen I chose something else. Otherwise in G1 and 3, i outgrinded and out-board presenced. Strangler is an absolute beast in the current meta, and the value of a 2 land (assuming a temple), 3/2 creature that is also -3/-3 removal is so good. When I get a value play (or two) like that off in a grindy matchup it swings the game heavily and instantly in my favor.
Round 3: Infect. I thought this guy was on Bant Eldrazi and kept an opening 7 in G1 that was fairly week as it had a temple, a couple B/W lands, and Souls and 2x removal but zero eldrazi. Turns out he was infect and that hand is really good. In both of the games I won, (g1 and 3), I removed his Blighted Agent (the creature that is our hardest problem to answer) with a Strangler in one game and a discard T1 on the other. Also in game 3 on the play I topdecked a ghost quarter to shut down what would have been a lethal attack with inkmoth + pumps on his T4, and I just generally got lucky draws and hands to have the perfect answers to hit combat tricks. Game two he had an insane hand and draws and I think got to 10 infect on turn 3 with a 12/12 inknmoth. Also in game 3 I double pithing needled, one on inkmoth and one on Pendelhaven (he had 1 of each on the board), and that really really helped. With how bad infect can be for us, and how bad tron is, I definitely like having two pithing needles rather than 1 to both ensure I get one early and because having two isn't bad in either of those matchups. Just mentioning this because I see lots of list with only 1 in the side.
Round 4: Through the Breach. Just generally lucky on my part that he was 1-2 turns from killing me when I killed him due to me getting fast hands with a decent clock. Don't have many details as we were more playing openly about our hands and choices as the games were for fun. I will say that when it's T6 and they cast/cheat in a Primeval Titan, and you have a path, cast it in response to it's ETB trigger, that way if they are getting their Valakut/5th mountain with the Titan trigger, it won't let them do damage off the land you just gave them with the path. I also only brought in Spellskite from the side, maybe adding a fulminator mage to the side could be good. What are the matchups you guys would use the following cards against, from your side? Anguished, Mindcensor, and fulminator. (side note fulminator is another reason to run Fetid Heath).
I am really digging this current list. I'm seeing faster opens and faster, more consistent board presence with the 7 3-drop eldrazi and Souls. I'm curving out much much better and getting hands with 5-cost eldrazi and only 4 mana a lot less (now that Herders are gone and 6-7 5-drops is no more).
One last thing, I think if I owned an Aven Mindcensor I'd try it out in the sideboard, there's a lot of decks that utilize searching and many of them give me issues. I might try to pick one up.
This list or something very similar has tied me for first after 3-0ing the first three rounds two of the last 3 FNM's I've played. The draws and hands felt lucky, but the deck also feels to be coming in from the right angles between the cantrips and the board presence/value from processing/seemingly just the right amount of removal.
I was literally thinking about Mindbender earlier today. I was considering trimming a smasher or something for a single mindbender. Getting a T4 5/5 body and possible double discard is pretty sweet, and that's with the assumption we sacced reshaper for the emerge and also got a draw or free permanent. That is definitely strong. However, you also have to consider how that double discard will drop off in value incredibly fast the later in the game you cast it. If you aren't casting it for emerge T3 or T4, are you really expecting to get even a single discard consistently if you were on the draw T5 or later? Because a vanilla 5/5 body for (8) is not good at all and very much a dead card if you aren't getting some form of value out of it. There is also that if you were to run this, you'd need to probably run 4 reshapers and 2-3 mindbenders to ensure casting it as early as possible as consistently as possible, which means pretty much moving on from processors altogether as something has to get trimmed. Lastly, TKS and Smasher are horrible targets to sac for emerge and have big anti-synergy with the card. I think there's better choices for any flex spots.
Big question is, with Vault, Sorin, 3 Shambling Vents, Kalitas, and CB, do I need to run timely? I get that it's great against aggro and burn, but I already have a significant amount of lifegain MB, and even more via CB and Kalitas in the side, plus I would like to fit in Aven Mindcensor, which would have done some work against both amulet and Titanshift.
I find that against burn I want as much hate in the side as possible, it is a very rough matchup if either your opening hand is atrocious or theirs is insane. You really need a T2 or T3 heal if they are having anything other than a soft opener, and timely is much better than rest for the weary if you can guarentee you get both the chump blockers and the heal. I find that shambling vent is a bit unreliable for lifegain against burn, as you won't be activating until T4 and that's assuming you have two B/W lands outside of the vent itself. Sorin with souls or timely tokens on T4 all but seals the deal against burn unless you're already a topdeck from dead. You do have Kalitas so that's an additional card from the side, but he also won't help you against burn to the face spells. Maybe I just face burn players that get really good hands and draws, but I rarely last past T4 if I'm not casting a direct heal on myself, so I run 1 timely and 2 blessed (or rest for the weary, currently blessed because of bogles which I keep running into and because it can wreck bant eldrazi while they try to swing with a smasher or TKS with an exalted trigger). I've also been liking timely in the merfolk matchup as I feel unless I'm topdecking really badly I want the game to get grindy and go late as my creatures are larger and I save all removal for their +1/+1 islandwalk buffers. Obviously timely is amazing against naya zoo, and I also like it against Jund because to beat jund we out-grind them and out-value them and timely is an amazing value card. Have you considered moving Collective Brutality into the main in favor of 1 inquisition? It'll open up the S.B. spot you want and Coll. Brut. is pretty solid against a lot of decks. It somewhat alleviates those situations where you draw a discard and it's a dead card, brutality has utility which is really good.
Exactly, that was my experience as well last Wednesday so cutting the Sowers, Ulamog and Sorin again. It doesn't work in this deck and makes the curve way too high.
You may be able to play with higher CMC cards when/if the meta shifts to where there's less linear aggro and more midrange and tron (we beat up on other midrange usually and tron keeps midrange decks in check), but right now the format is the fastest it's been in the 9 short months I've been playing it. There's always going to be fluctuating lists to keep up with the format changing.
Nice results I must say for a person that's not feeling well
Do you find Declaration in Stone often hits just a single creature because there aren't multiple copies in play? Or is exiling that creature worth it nonetheless? And how often does your Wasteland Strangler actually kill something with its processing ability? I find the number of times a bit disappointing actually.
It's really important to take note of whether or not you have something in your opening hand to enable strangler's processing if your opener has a strangler. A path, sculler, or relic is very important in an opening hand with a strangler and/or Herder. Obviously we can't mulligan away otherwise decent hands to make this happen, but it is key to plan out your first several turns of the game with your opening hand, and determine the hands strength based on how you see the game playing out through those turns.
Those higher cost cards will certainly give you and advantage in the late game, but raising the CMC cost of the deck any higher than it already is will absolutely lead you to games where you have dead cards in hand because you don't have the lands to cast them, and also cause slow openers where you can't recover in a modern format that is fairly quick at the moment. I have firsthand experience playing a higher curve with this deck and I experienced much better consistency when I cut my fun-ofs. You've got to think about whether you want to play spicy, fun, high impact cards, or to perform at the highest level possible. It was sooo hard for me to finally take out my Batterskull, I had it in my list for 6 months. But I got to a point with the deck where I wanted to optimize my list and focus on piloting it as well as possible, and it seems to be going better since I've made that change.
So I've been lurking around this thread. I think this deck is really cool and I want to build it. I wonder: What is the reasoning behind the consensus to favor Blight Herder over Reality Smasher? Is it because it's essentially an Eldrazi version of LS, and complements LS's stall/board control groove? Smasher just seems so powerful to me, I would want to run 4 all day.
How often do you find yourself dropping a t1 relic?
Thanks for your collective wisdom.
There are those of us that prefer 4 smashers and 2-3 herders, because smasher puts so much pressure on the oopponent and a 5/5 with trample is among the biggest creatures played in Modern. From my personal experience without gas like a smasher, the deck can run out of steam and fall short of winning the game. This version with no smashers is actually very new and just getting discussed since a recent list has done well at a large tournament. The other big difference with this list is tide hollow scullers, which I am not a fan of. The low curve is nice, and enabling processing on t2 while also getting a creature on board is also nice. However I am not a fan of a BW spell on T2, meaning you have to cut colorless producing lands for more B/W lands and also cutting the colorless requiring smasher. The biggest downside to me in tide hollow is giving their card back if it dies before you get to process it. If you want to win games by locking the opponent down more and maximizing the value of processors and displacer, then go with scullers and herders. If you don't mind a slightly higher curve in favor of smashers as well as more Utility lands, and want to win by going big with creatures, go with that version. Just my personal opinion, but I think BW eldrazi and taxes does a much better job of the lock down strategy. I prefer to play defensive/disruptive in the first turns and then turning the corner and applying heavy pressure to close the game out.
Relic on T1 is pretty common and also a damn good play against a lot of decks. This deck has a natural slow opener so relic is really only competing with discard for T1 plays.
I think the big thing in Damnation vs. Wrath isn't really a mana issue as it is there's just more creatures/spells that give protection to white.
I am definitely a fan of EE, I think it's such a sick card because so many problem creatures are CMC 2 or less, and as herfs said it can be a turn faster than ratchet bomb, and late game can blow up for 0-2 CMC on 1 turn. I actually run 1 ratchet and 2 EE total in my 75, I've been liking the versatility of ratchet bomb in the maindeck.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Well its a sideboard card, so all I need it for is land destruction against a few key matchups that will determine whether I get a top spot for the night. Not sure if you're wondering what I'd take out for it post-sideboard, or you thought I was talking about maindecking fulminator. For instance against tron and through the breach I'd have no issues taking out a strangler or two, there is literally nothing to use its -3/-3 on. For Batterskull, I'd probably move the ratchet in my main to the side and maybe go down to 1 EE in the side? Not sure.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Yeah, you're probably right to pitch the 6 hand. As I said the few times I've gone down to 5 I've been displeased so I'm biased. Almost always I try to stick to the rule that I don't keep hands that have cards I don't have the lands/colors to play, and am depending on a certain top deck to make it work,
I haven't had near enough experience to make a decision on Fulminator, I only play once every two weeks typically so I've only had two FNMs since I picked them up. The first time, I had it in the opener against bant eldrazi, but it ended up being a super weird game where shutting down an early temple was irrelevant, we both went an absurdly long time without drawing gas. The next time, the players I brought the fulms in for weren't attending. I brought them in because the best players at my LGS play bant eldrazi, tron, and through the breach/Valakut. I feel it's a pretty good card against both tron and through the breach. I just haven't had the number of FNMs to show how well it performs. I'm also wary of only having one in the side, because it's a card you want to have ready to play t3 against tron and bant eldrazi, and asap when a Valakut hits the field, so running two seems a better idea than hoping to have a single copy in your opening hand.
How do you feel about Batterskull in the current state of modern? I was running it a while back but took it out with herders to add reshapers, but I've been thinking about adding it back in. If only we could more consistently ramp it out on T4 than just mind stones. Feels like T5 is a turn too slow against burn/aggro.
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I don't know, that is such a tough one. I have been so let down by like every 5 card hand I've seen, it feels so bad going down to 5 because you know if it's a trash hand you've just thrown the game away before turn 1. With that 6 all you need is a temple in the first 3 draws or two lands in the first 3 draws, or a land and a mind stone. Or a land and a lingering souls in the first 3 draws. Oh I totally forgot about scrying, so factor in a scry in there to boost the probability. I see so many ways for that hand to pan out, and percentage wise it feels like the better option than going down to 5. When I goldfish with tron I go down to 4 all day err day and don't care in the slightest, but when I do it with processors it feels so painful to go below 6. Like i legit hate it. Maybe that's just a bias I've had based on my small sample size and string of luck with 5 card hands.
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In order to become a 'tiered deck' it needs to get a huge influx of players, and in order for a bunch of players to start playing it it needs to have some dominant performance(s) on the pro/large-scale tournament scene. Did Dredge get any more powerful all of a sudden? No, it had a whole ***** load of decks in the top 32 of some SCG tournament, everyone thinks "hey the deck must be strong and must be able to win lots, I want to switch to it NOW", and within a week after that its 10% of the meta. Decks become tiered by becoming more popular, not stronger.
Processors right now, in my opinion, has legit game against a massive portion of the current modern meta, and honestly I'd say path, relic, and ramping reshaper/tks/smasher out 1-2 turns early are the largest reasons for that. Relic is seriously a house, many times I'll play 4 rounds at an FNM and realize every single opponent had something I could get value out of relic exiling. The deck has different approaches against decks trying to win different ways, and feels incredibly flexible in that regard. As jwf239 said, it feels like it rewards practice, tight play, and knowledge of the opponent's deck and strategy and overall modern format, very much. I had been away from MTG for like 12 years and started playing again in January of this year. I picked modern for my format and jumped right in, choosing processors because I loved eldrazi right away. Starting from getting absolutely destroyed my first couple months because I didn't know the format AT ALL, or any cards AT ALL, or even the more complex rules of the game like the stack, to now almost a year later and I'm one of the few people at FNM consistently playing for/tying for first after starting 3-0. I feel like with each game or match loss, I can pinpoint why that loss happened; a mistake or two or more, drawing/mulliganing extremely unlucky/poorly with lands, or getting unlucky in not drawing your key sideboard/removal/discard/etc. when you have plenty of copies in the deck. Reflecting on why you lost the game, and what you could have done to as little as increase your percentage of winning had you had a chance for a do-over, is how you improve as a player IMO. This deck is absolutely capable of crushing at an FNM level, and from what I've seen from others even at a PPTQ level. So unless you're planning on traveling the country and attending larger than PPTQ tournaments and doing well enough to net a profit, this deck is every bit as competitive as jund/abzan/infect/affinity/whatever else.
I will close with saying the one thing I am worried about is processors getting some collateral damage from bant eldrazi and getting Eldrazi Temple banned. Hopefully dredge's rise has taken the heat off bant eldrazi, but you never know what wizards is thinking. When I first picked up the deck I was on the Eye of Ugin, Oblivion sower and blight herder ramping into Ulamog version. God that version was fun. Then Oath hits and it brings TKS, smasher, and Eldrazi Mimic. The eldrazi winter begins and it had something like well over 20% of the format I believe. Eye of Ugin gets banned and our little processors project gets the shaft. If we get hit again due to the bant eldrazi salt I would be so crushed. I really believe that wizards wants eldrazi in the format, so I would lean toward a non-ban of Temple, but I worry about this deck getting yet another setback after it's what I've invested into. I do have R/G tron built as well (I guess I like ramp and big beats, big whoop, wanna fight about it?) and I'd have no problem going to that, its super fun for me to play, but I just love playing a non-linear deck that plays both reactive and proactive, that plays like Jund but has way more gas with temple and smasher, and is like less than 1/4 the price.
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I like your take on 3 Thoughtseize and 1 co. brut. in the main, that definitely helped me trim a slot. I'm also thinking of running 4 reshaper and 3 strangler, because it feels really good to drop a T2 reshaper and I love how people seem to path it all the time. I am wary about the change as strangler is the only processor so trimming it might make relics less important.
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The two matchups Processors most often brings Stony Silence in are Tron and Affinity. In both cases you're going to be siding out most or all 4 relics, and in affinity I side out the mind stones as well as they slow you down too much if you don't accelerate a TKS or Smasher. Also it is good against Ad Nauseum, which can be tough as well. Basically its a powerful enough hate card in what can be some bad matchups, I'm currently debating whether I should run one or two in my sideboard.
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The reason I want to bring Anguished or Ratchet in as an answer to moon and other things is because I don't want to basically concede game 1 if it hits the board. I also have more success trying to remove blood moon than play around it with getting basics after it hits the field. I don't like the odds of needing to either have one of your 3 marsh flats on the field to fetch in response to blood moon being cast, or path your own creature, best case scenario a spirit token, once a blood moon has been cast. Oh by the way where did the white source come for that souls and that path because you have 3 basics in the deck and that blood moon just hit the board on T2 or T3. Personally I think the best way to beat an early blood moon is to drop a T2 or T3 reshaper or strangler for some board presence before moon is played, and then cantrip and dig for the moon removal because your board presence probably saved you some turns. Also Mind stones help cast TKS and smasher with a blood moon on the field.
Right now I'm thinking Ratchet Bomb because the versatility and board presence fit the style of the deck, and if there's a blood moon on the field, Anguished costing B/W has a pretty high chance of being uncastable with 3 total plains and swamps in the deck. And I'm leaning toward trimming a relic from the main for it, because the need to process has lessened with cutting herders, but there is generally a lot of graveyard play going on and I'm not sure if that's a good call.
Sorry for the rant, I just see many people taking that angle against blood moon and I don't think it's the way to go.
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My current list is hereand I've got a question about a change I'd like to make for FNM tomorrow. I'd like to move an anguished or ratchet bomb from the side and into the main (probably put in a grafidggers in the open SB slot) in order to have a game 1 answer to things like ensnaring bridge and blood moon. First, which of the two should I move to the main? Secondly, what should be cut to make room? Sorin, a relic, a strangler, mind stone, something else? Any discussion or input is appreciated.
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Edit: and I feel we need all the help we can get against bant eldrazi because it has more consistent volatile openings.
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I've added a Fetid Heath, I picked one up recently because if the Sculler version continues to put up results I would try that out, and wanted to have the Fetid Heath ready for that. But I put some thought into my current list, and decided that it's a card that can definitely be useful with my particular 75. I was able to add a Kalitas in with the Heath, which I think is just a strong card in the current modern meta as it helps greatly against burn and zoo and general aggro decks, and also is an all-star in the midrange grindy mirrors. And like Matter Reshaper, if it eats removal I am more than happy with that, because that means that removal is not being used on a TKS or a Smasher. The only creatures I care about staying alive/sticking on the board are TKS and Smasher, because TKS gives them a draw and I want smasher to be beating down their face and getting 2 or 3-for-1'd with blockers because it's so big to most all other creatures. If Reshaper gets pathed so I don't get the on death trigger, I am so pleased with that because that Path is no longer in their hand and I get ramped. Yes please! This happens fairly often as well.
Back to the Fetid Heath. With Kalitas, 2x Shambling Vents, Sorin, Vault of the Archangel, Anguished Unmaking, and (something that I personally didn't figure was too important as it happens to be not an issue very often) turn 5 casting a Lingering Souls and flashing it back in the same main phase. The last one actually happened tonight, where it was T5 and my play was exactly a cast+flashback Souls, and the Heath gave me my colors. That's 6 cards not including Souls that benefit from Heath. But what made me go with it for this weekend was the sideboard, which adds an additional 2x Damnations and 2x EE (for CMC = 2). That's 10 cards, so I think it might be worth a land slot. It could potentially help quite a bit in a land base that I wouldn't call shaky, but maybe stretched thin.
Round 1: Against Death's Shadow Zoo. Both games 1 and 2 were basically him paining himself down to 5-10 life, and not having Death's Shadow for the payoff. He literally played one both games combined, and I had so much removal between paths and Strangler's for his Nacatls. Game two Shambling Vent brought it home in 3 turns after he pained himself to 6 and I had removal in hand as soon as the one Death's Shadow hit the board.
Round 2: Against some form of Abzan Company, to be honest I have a really hard time telling what the hell version of this creature toolbox deck I'm up against as they are all so damn similar. This one had something I'd never seen before, which involved Using some blue enchantment, a utility land, and a creature that basically had him pump the creature up to 19/19 and make it unblockable. I had never seen this before and maybe someone else can clear up the cards/combo I'm talking about. The match went to 3 games and he won game 2 with this combo, I could have 100% prevented it the turn prior by ripping the enchantment from his land with TKS but since I had no clue about what was about to happen I chose something else. Otherwise in G1 and 3, i outgrinded and out-board presenced. Strangler is an absolute beast in the current meta, and the value of a 2 land (assuming a temple), 3/2 creature that is also -3/-3 removal is so good. When I get a value play (or two) like that off in a grindy matchup it swings the game heavily and instantly in my favor.
Round 3: Infect. I thought this guy was on Bant Eldrazi and kept an opening 7 in G1 that was fairly week as it had a temple, a couple B/W lands, and Souls and 2x removal but zero eldrazi. Turns out he was infect and that hand is really good. In both of the games I won, (g1 and 3), I removed his Blighted Agent (the creature that is our hardest problem to answer) with a Strangler in one game and a discard T1 on the other. Also in game 3 on the play I topdecked a ghost quarter to shut down what would have been a lethal attack with inkmoth + pumps on his T4, and I just generally got lucky draws and hands to have the perfect answers to hit combat tricks. Game two he had an insane hand and draws and I think got to 10 infect on turn 3 with a 12/12 inknmoth. Also in game 3 I double pithing needled, one on inkmoth and one on Pendelhaven (he had 1 of each on the board), and that really really helped. With how bad infect can be for us, and how bad tron is, I definitely like having two pithing needles rather than 1 to both ensure I get one early and because having two isn't bad in either of those matchups. Just mentioning this because I see lots of list with only 1 in the side.
Round 4: Through the Breach. Just generally lucky on my part that he was 1-2 turns from killing me when I killed him due to me getting fast hands with a decent clock. Don't have many details as we were more playing openly about our hands and choices as the games were for fun. I will say that when it's T6 and they cast/cheat in a Primeval Titan, and you have a path, cast it in response to it's ETB trigger, that way if they are getting their Valakut/5th mountain with the Titan trigger, it won't let them do damage off the land you just gave them with the path. I also only brought in Spellskite from the side, maybe adding a fulminator mage to the side could be good. What are the matchups you guys would use the following cards against, from your side? Anguished, Mindcensor, and fulminator. (side note fulminator is another reason to run Fetid Heath).
I am really digging this current list. I'm seeing faster opens and faster, more consistent board presence with the 7 3-drop eldrazi and Souls. I'm curving out much much better and getting hands with 5-cost eldrazi and only 4 mana a lot less (now that Herders are gone and 6-7 5-drops is no more).
One last thing, I think if I owned an Aven Mindcensor I'd try it out in the sideboard, there's a lot of decks that utilize searching and many of them give me issues. I might try to pick one up.
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Reality Smasher
Spells
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Mind Stone
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Go for the Throat
3 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Shambling Vents
1 Fetid Heath
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Spellskite
2 Damnation
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Ratchet bomb
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Stony Silence
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Engineered Explosives
This list or something very similar has tied me for first after 3-0ing the first three rounds two of the last 3 FNM's I've played. The draws and hands felt lucky, but the deck also feels to be coming in from the right angles between the cantrips and the board presence/value from processing/seemingly just the right amount of removal.
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I was literally thinking about Mindbender earlier today. I was considering trimming a smasher or something for a single mindbender. Getting a T4 5/5 body and possible double discard is pretty sweet, and that's with the assumption we sacced reshaper for the emerge and also got a draw or free permanent. That is definitely strong. However, you also have to consider how that double discard will drop off in value incredibly fast the later in the game you cast it. If you aren't casting it for emerge T3 or T4, are you really expecting to get even a single discard consistently if you were on the draw T5 or later? Because a vanilla 5/5 body for (8) is not good at all and very much a dead card if you aren't getting some form of value out of it. There is also that if you were to run this, you'd need to probably run 4 reshapers and 2-3 mindbenders to ensure casting it as early as possible as consistently as possible, which means pretty much moving on from processors altogether as something has to get trimmed. Lastly, TKS and Smasher are horrible targets to sac for emerge and have big anti-synergy with the card. I think there's better choices for any flex spots.
I find that against burn I want as much hate in the side as possible, it is a very rough matchup if either your opening hand is atrocious or theirs is insane. You really need a T2 or T3 heal if they are having anything other than a soft opener, and timely is much better than rest for the weary if you can guarentee you get both the chump blockers and the heal. I find that shambling vent is a bit unreliable for lifegain against burn, as you won't be activating until T4 and that's assuming you have two B/W lands outside of the vent itself. Sorin with souls or timely tokens on T4 all but seals the deal against burn unless you're already a topdeck from dead. You do have Kalitas so that's an additional card from the side, but he also won't help you against burn to the face spells. Maybe I just face burn players that get really good hands and draws, but I rarely last past T4 if I'm not casting a direct heal on myself, so I run 1 timely and 2 blessed (or rest for the weary, currently blessed because of bogles which I keep running into and because it can wreck bant eldrazi while they try to swing with a smasher or TKS with an exalted trigger). I've also been liking timely in the merfolk matchup as I feel unless I'm topdecking really badly I want the game to get grindy and go late as my creatures are larger and I save all removal for their +1/+1 islandwalk buffers. Obviously timely is amazing against naya zoo, and I also like it against Jund because to beat jund we out-grind them and out-value them and timely is an amazing value card. Have you considered moving Collective Brutality into the main in favor of 1 inquisition? It'll open up the S.B. spot you want and Coll. Brut. is pretty solid against a lot of decks. It somewhat alleviates those situations where you draw a discard and it's a dead card, brutality has utility which is really good.
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You may be able to play with higher CMC cards when/if the meta shifts to where there's less linear aggro and more midrange and tron (we beat up on other midrange usually and tron keeps midrange decks in check), but right now the format is the fastest it's been in the 9 short months I've been playing it. There's always going to be fluctuating lists to keep up with the format changing.
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It's really important to take note of whether or not you have something in your opening hand to enable strangler's processing if your opener has a strangler. A path, sculler, or relic is very important in an opening hand with a strangler and/or Herder. Obviously we can't mulligan away otherwise decent hands to make this happen, but it is key to plan out your first several turns of the game with your opening hand, and determine the hands strength based on how you see the game playing out through those turns.
Those higher cost cards will certainly give you and advantage in the late game, but raising the CMC cost of the deck any higher than it already is will absolutely lead you to games where you have dead cards in hand because you don't have the lands to cast them, and also cause slow openers where you can't recover in a modern format that is fairly quick at the moment. I have firsthand experience playing a higher curve with this deck and I experienced much better consistency when I cut my fun-ofs. You've got to think about whether you want to play spicy, fun, high impact cards, or to perform at the highest level possible. It was sooo hard for me to finally take out my Batterskull, I had it in my list for 6 months. But I got to a point with the deck where I wanted to optimize my list and focus on piloting it as well as possible, and it seems to be going better since I've made that change.
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There are those of us that prefer 4 smashers and 2-3 herders, because smasher puts so much pressure on the oopponent and a 5/5 with trample is among the biggest creatures played in Modern. From my personal experience without gas like a smasher, the deck can run out of steam and fall short of winning the game. This version with no smashers is actually very new and just getting discussed since a recent list has done well at a large tournament. The other big difference with this list is tide hollow scullers, which I am not a fan of. The low curve is nice, and enabling processing on t2 while also getting a creature on board is also nice. However I am not a fan of a BW spell on T2, meaning you have to cut colorless producing lands for more B/W lands and also cutting the colorless requiring smasher. The biggest downside to me in tide hollow is giving their card back if it dies before you get to process it. If you want to win games by locking the opponent down more and maximizing the value of processors and displacer, then go with scullers and herders. If you don't mind a slightly higher curve in favor of smashers as well as more Utility lands, and want to win by going big with creatures, go with that version. Just my personal opinion, but I think BW eldrazi and taxes does a much better job of the lock down strategy. I prefer to play defensive/disruptive in the first turns and then turning the corner and applying heavy pressure to close the game out.
Relic on T1 is pretty common and also a damn good play against a lot of decks. This deck has a natural slow opener so relic is really only competing with discard for T1 plays.
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