Tituba9, you have to be careful with antisynergy in your sideboard. You can't play Stony Silence and
Engineered Explosives and Ratchet bombs without having issues of them stepping on eachother's toes. They all come in in the same matchup, Affinity. You also have Mind Stone.
As for Smasher sticking to the board way better, I've found that not to be the case. Against counterspells Herder obviously is better. And against a Path to Exile I'd rather have 3 1/1s stick around than have my opponent discard a card.
I think it is very much worth it to bring in both stony and E.E against affinity. I side out all relics and mind stones, and if having an opening hand with both a stony and EE means I get to jam a T2 stony and have a dead EE in my hand, I'll gladly take that. Stony shuts down basically everything they can do besides activate their moth lands. Shutting down cranial plating alone can swing the matchup greatly in our favor because of souls, herders, and our big bodied creatures. And if they get removal for the stony, by that time I've got the open mana to EE up to CMC=2 on the same turn I play it as a followup, continuing to shut them down. Each time recently that I have played affinity I have crushed post-boarding with this strategy.
Well I run two caverns in my paper version because there are quite a few blue control decks, I have trimmed a ghost quarter for it and have found two ghost quarters to be enough for me. Also, if you get a look at the blue player's hand and find out which counterspells they have, you can play around it and bait them out earlier on the game to make Smasher stick. Once smasher is on the field, you cannot deny he has way more staying power than Blight Herder. The only time I'd prefer a Herder is if they are getting countered and I get the cast trigger scions anyway. Against Path I would much rather have them discard and take a 2-for-1 in my favor to remove it, meaning I just spent 5 mana to have them discard two cards. If they path a Herder after it resolves, I just paid 5 mana for them to discard one and to get 3 1/1s. I prefer to have them discard two, but that just comes down to preference and how you play the deck.
Edit: Forgot to mention that affinity is the only matchup where stony comes in outside of R/G tron, and in both cases the power of the stony is enough to warrant some anti-synergy.
This is my latest sideboard, I have swapped my 2x rest for the weary for Blessed Alliance, because Blessed is solid against bogles, bant eldrazi (opposing smashers and removing a 4/4 TKS and getting a draw), and against burn if they prevent your healing, you still get to make them sacrifice a creature. Many people seem to be making that change and after facing bogles both in paper and online within the past week I'm doing it as well.
Sometimes relics are just not enough against graveyard decks, so a 1-of of each grafdiggers and rest in peace are needed in the current meta.
Spellskite is an amazing sideboard card and until the SCG list, my list was the only one I had seen running one. Theres many matches where this card just ruins their day, and it's going to be sticking around for a while in the sideboard.
I've dropped anguished unmaking in the side for a ratchet bomb for a couple reasons. First, my local meta has a U/B mill player and ratchet bomb can take out multiple Ensnaring Bridges, and I both feel the need to keep E.Es for all the aggro decks we currently see, and keep a ratchet bomb to be able to hit CMC = 3 permanents. Ratchet Bomb is also our best out to Blood moon which is popping up more and more. You can count anguished unmaking out as an answer to Blood moon because the likelihood of you getting a swamp, plains, and anguished to remove it is extremely low.
This past weekend I wanted to try to get some results, so I cut the fun-ofs from my list (Gemstone Caverns + Eternal Scourge wombo combo and Batterskull). I went with a main 60 with the same non-lands as Deaddrift's latest build (swapping in two inquisitions). I ended up gaining one more reshaper, now up to two, and gaining back Go for the Throat from the other trimmed non-land. The Go for the Throat literally won me game two and three in an infect matchup (Path to Exile + GftT on both his attacking creatures on turn 3 both of game two and three sealed the deal both times) solidifed that this card should have stayed in my list in the first place.
At a 17 person FNM with the list, I ended up going 3-0-1 (drew going into round 4 to both tie for first), having my best results with the deck yet. The lower curve and added removal really were key in some games. I also had one of those nights where my opening hands and draws were on-point, such as game two and three against bogles having E.E in the opening hand, and facing a ponza deck that misplayed turn 1 and 2 and delayed a possible T3 blood moon allowing me to drop a smasher in before he got a T4 blood moon. The lone smasher eventually swung for the win. But I don't think it was just luck, I think the main 60 Deaddrift has put together is about as optimized as a smasher version can be. The following day I was in a small 8 person 3-rounder, and went 2-1 for second place. The last match was against Jund, and we had a very close game 3 where he won the topdeck war, I'd say both events were a big success and I've shifted my mtgo list to be very similar to my paper list and will hopefully be seeing a bump up from my usual 3-2 finish in league play online.
Everyone's been raving about Collective Brutality, and I had some success with it when I tested it in the sideboard one night at FNM, So I've decided to try and add one in the main 60 for a few tournies and see how it goes. The card I trimmed was one copy of Mind Stone. I chose mind stone because of times where I've had both mind stones in hand early in the game. This change should speed the deck up a tiny bit, and make those situations where the deck opens very slowly less common. Also having added a reshaper recently, it sort of alleviates the loss of a cantrip. I've also wanted to get back to 5 discard for a while, and I like that the 5th discard comes with so much extra utility. Utility cards are great in this deck.
Here is my current 75, for the past week or so I've been working on some sideboard notes, trying to get a more solid idea of what goes in and out for each matchup. If anyone has a list similar to mine and wants tips/discussion/to critique my In/Out choices, let me know and Ill throw the notes up here. Although I will have to go through and update them with the change to Collective Brutality as that's something I've decided to to today.
The sculler + Herder list makes total sense, you use scullers to exile and allow your processing to go off more consistently. I can see why the list runs no smashers and instead focuses on going all-in on processor value. Personally I don't see myself playing in that style, because I prefer to turn the corner with smasher as well as have the option of playing as the aggressor when needed. I'm not particularly a fan of Sculler because it can die so easily and give their card right back (unless you quickly process), and I'm not a fan of Blight Herder because it is easily removed and paying (5) to have 3 1/1s is really underwhelming, whether the herder gets countered or removed. Smasher sticks on the board way better, and the fact that they have similar clocks (with 3 1/1s along with the Herder) isn't really giving smasher credit for having haste. Being able to attack with it the turn you play it is really good, and has saved me so many times against Nahiri. I don't think everyone should necessarily move over to this Herder version because of the results, I believe that since this deck is played very little at large tournament levels, it has very few chances to make a good run. Basically the small representation is surely to lead to less results. Having a solid outting takes a combination of a good decklist, a very good pilot, a bit of the heart of the cards, and a field that is favorable to the deck you brought. Just because the Herder version was the first one to put up results since the creation of the deck (Sowers, Newlamog, and Eye of Ugin), doesn't mean a smasher deck couldn't do just as well. I'll be sticking with smashers unless I see this Herder + Sculler version blowing up and having more impressive results in the coming months.
So my post got lost somewhere in 'Preview', have to write everything all over again QQ
I played this deck yesterday at my LGS. It's my first time playing the deck in real life so potentionally made a ton of mistakes.
A couple of things I could use your thoughts on:
- Or, I haven't activated Vault of the Archangel a single game so I'm thinking of replacing this with a Godless Shrine. How are you guys experiencing Vault activations, do you do this occasionally or is it a rare sight for you as well?
- If you don't see a Relic the entire game I find the game is becoming quite hard since you will be lacking the Strangler/Herder activation most of the times. How do you go around with this?
- Would Eternal Scourge have a place in this deck and if so what would you cut for it?
- Do you feel like more Matter Reshaper would be OK to play?
- How do you feel about including 1-2 Oblivion Sower, extending the exile zone and potentially giving us some land in return, with a 5/8 body for 6? (Also I'm just in love with this card lol)
- Thinking of -1 Dismember and +1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Early game discard is most welcome
I can address a few of your comments. Vault of the Archangel is an insane card and needs to stay. Just having the threat of that ability to activate on your opponents turn can and will deny them from attacking into deathtouch 1/1 spirits or scions. There's situations where you've got a creature or other spell in your hand, but it's better to activate vault for the lifelink or deathtouch. It eats up land hate, protecting your Eldrazi Temples. The activation might not happen very often, but just the possibility or threat of it means its literally our best colorless producing utility land.
I have definitely had games where I've been praying for a T1 or T2 relic draw to enable my strangler's processor value. I'm sure the Sculler version alleviates this somewhat. The best way to avoid this is to pay close attention to opening hands and their synergy (or lack thereof), and to be content with a vanilla strangler or herder from time to time.
Most of the people posting of late have tried Eternal Scourge in their list, and I think the consensus is that at the end of the day, the recurring didn't really effect many games as they were decided too quickly, or it just was a boring vanilla 3/3 in a format filled with creatures that do more than have power and toughness.
Matter Reshaper is pretty solid and also fights for Scullers for slots in the main 60 in the Sculler + Herder version. If you go with no Scullers and Smashers, you could run 2-3 Reshapers.
Oblivion Sower is literally the card that got me to make this deck, but it was used because the lands were needed to ramp into Newlamog. There is just very little need for those lands when Sower is already at the top of your curve, and a 5/8 body nice but also a bit overkill for modern, smashers are already some of the biggest creatures played. And it's easily dealt with by removal, meaning you spent 6 mana to get extra lands you didn't need.
I would advise against trimming Dismember for a (6th?) discard. That slot is consistently used for instant-speed removal, either an Anguished Unmaking or Go for the Throat.
I have a sideboard question. If I need some artifact destruction, is it worth it to run the slower (sorcery) speed Revoke Existence to get things directly into exile, or is it better to run the instant speed Disenchant?
Thanks.
IMO the fact that Disenchant is an instant is way more important than having another tool to exile things for processing. The ability to disenchant an affinity robot post combat tricks, or to cast on a tidehollow sculler the same turn it steals your card in Eldrazi and Taxes. Those are just a couple examples off the top, but the ability to use it more flexibly around your lands (you may have the mana open on your opponents turn as he casts a Blood Moon or Wurmcoil Engine, but wouldn't have that two mana open the following turn as a sorcery). That far outweighs another exiling source. You just have to depend on Relics/etc. and blame the heart of the cards if you aren't able to process every time.
Hi all! I'm a Standard player that's been looking over several modern decks the past weeks or so as I plan on making the jump between formats. While I've been primarily looking at Dredge, Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Zooicide and Burn, seeing this thread has really intrigued me and I've been reading through the most recent 15 pages or so over the past few hours. I made a Reddit thread over on /r/spikes (where I originally saw this deck's creator link to this thread) looking for suggestions on a deck to buy into and the replies varied mostly from either playing Affinity/Zooicide or not buying into a deck at all, and just going for staples to begin with.
After reading through the majority of this thread, I have to saw I really really like the look of this deck! I played a BW midrangey standard deck for a while, that TKS and Smasher, along with Gideons, Ayli and Sorin. I'm a huge fan of Eldrazi so this deck seems like something I'd really enjoy playing. Bonus points for being something that from what people in this thread have said, is also competitive with established t1 decks.
Is this a deck that you all would recommend to a new Modern player? I like that it does contain 4x Path and a split of Thoughtseize and IoK (Which I may just buy the full playset of each anyway) which I could run in other in-color decks in the future.
My obviously biased opinion is going to come off as trying to sell you on the deck, because I really like it if I'm here and posting in the first place. I just got into modern in January 2016, and hadn't played any MtG at all for over a decade since my early teens. I chose the modern format because I prefer to make a one time investment instead of continually spending on standard, but more-so I chose it because I like the idea of picking a deck/color(s)/w.e. and grinding with it, learning the ins-and-outs, and mastering it (as well as the modern format) over time. When you play for those reasons it's important to never get too focused on winning, short-term success or losses, but improving as a player of the game over time, investing your time in the game to be better than you were yesterday.
There is a steep learning curve to the powerful decks in modern, and to piloting a deck that is reactive and control, not aggro or linear. It's like you're playing a combo deck except rather than piecing the same combo you're solving the puzzle of how to win the game, and it's going to be differently every game you aren't T2 Thought-Knotting into T3 Reality Smashing. Jumping into modern with any deck you're going to get stomped many many times. When you don't know what you're up against it's hard to plan lines to win/not lose around it. But searching opposing decklists or primers, or reading through forums such as these, combined with practicing the deck will over time reward you with a flexible deck that has a chance against much of the modern meta. This deck is super fun to play and Deaddrift has shown with remarkable consistency that it's capable of going 3-1, 3-0-1, or 4-0 at large FNM/local tournaments.
As for the cards in B/W Processors being used in other modern decks, there are a few that you could transition to. The discard package is used in both Jund and B/W tokens, the Marsh Flats and Godless Shrines, and Lingering Souls, are used in B/W Tokens, and all the Eldrazi are/can be used in Bant Eldrazi and Eldrazi and taxes. With this deck you basically have a large portion of the mana-base for all of B/W Tokens and Eldrazi and Taxes. A big price difference in B/W Processors and all the aforementioned is the price of the decks. Jund is obviously the most expensive modern deck, so I won't explain that one too much. B/W tokens has the $30+ each Bitterblossoms, as well as both Fetid Heaths and Marsh Flats for lands which are each very expensive. Bant Eldrazi has Noble Heirarchs and some additional expensive lands (and sometimes even Tarmogoyfs), and Eldrazi and Taxes Runs Aether Vials. B/W Processors does not have any of these big cost items outside of the unnecessary Cavern of Souls and unnecessary Batterskull and sideboard tech. You can build a pretty budget but effective shell of processors, I made one for MTGO just this weekend and I'll mention it more later in this post.
Current list. Should I cut anything MB for Collective Brutality or just make it a SB slot instead?
I'm a huge fan of Smasher in the deck, a 5/5 for 5 with trample, haste, and removal protection that can be out as early as turn 3 is so huge and I'm going to suggest going back up to at least 3, and siding them out as needed. From that list if you're wanting to bring in two Coll. Brut., I'd do -2 Inquisition, -1 Dismember, +2 C.B., +1 Smasher.
I have just joined mtgo this weekend, playing processors and running 1 scourge in my list, and it has been underwhelming. Maybe because I'm only running one, but I'd say half the time it dies in combat and sits in the yard while the game is decided before his recur even comes into play. There are games where I draw him and play him early, and his recur comes into play just a turn or two later, but those are few and far between. Also, it is just a vanilla 3/3 for 3, and doesn't do much other than provide board presence. We have board presence with beefy eldrazi and Herder Processing and Lingering Souls, not sure Scourge is the direction to take the deck. I just realized this is more of a reply to herf's post, I got them mixed up with the quoting.
So as I said, I decided to invest into getting the processor deck on mtgo so I could both get more practice/playtime with the deck (I only average 1 event a week on paper most often, sometimes less). I also wanted to play on mtgo because it forces proper mechanics/usage of the stack.etc. I built processors for about $150, obviously missing big cards like 1 copy of Cavern of Souls and any wrath effects in the sideboard, but it is mostly the standard build we see around here otherwise. Here is the link. I have played in a couple friendly modern leagues so far, going 2-3 the first time and 3-2 the second. Ill try to do a report on the 3-2 league.
Before I get into the matches, I have to say the online meta is very Wasteland Strangler friendly, there is almost always something on the board to kill with the -3/-3 and I am so often wishing to topdeck either a strangler or an exile effect for some value. I have also found Scoruge to be underwhelming so far, and Sorin to be an all-star. On paper Sorin has been above decent, but online so far he has been crushing it, even his (-) has seen at least a couple uses. I have dropped the 1 scourge from that list for a second Sorin because of this, and look forward to trying that out in more leagues.
Match 1: vs. Elves - 1-2 [0-1]
SIDE IN: Ratchet x2, Flaying Tendrils x2, Timely x2 / SIDE OUT: Anguished x 1, Thoughtseize x2, Mind Stone x2, Smasher x1.
Should have included Surgicals here as I could have used more cards in exile since he is not filling the yard with fetches/spells, and the key legendary elves needing extracted and caused me trouble). I had never played against elves before, so any tips on these or any other side board decisions are very welcomed.
Game 1: I got T2 TKS into T3 smasher, into T3 Herder +process, he conceded.
Game 2: Kept a hand with 2x souls, 2x relic, and a shambling vent and Vault. I was afraid the 5 would be worse. Drew a TKS turn 1, and a temple to play it the next turn, however the opponent had 7 elves on the board turn 3 and on my turn 4 I drew the Flaying Tendrils I needed to live but did not have the double black to cast it and lost the next turn to a board full of 8/8 tramples from 17 life.
Game 3: Kept a hand with 2 relics, a sorin, and 3 lands, drew a souls early but he had 9 elves out on turn 3 thanks to a CoCo and I got ran over very quickly.
OP: His board presence, Flaying Tendrils (had I been able to cast it), Herder + Processing for our own presence
UP: Lack of exiling ability since they run mostly basic lands and mostly creatures with little noncreature spells.
Notes: Elves come out fast and wide, and if you aren't getting Strangler or Herder Processing off for board presence, you better have ratchet bombs and/or Flaying Tendrils to wipe them before they beef up and swing for the kill.
Match 2: vs. B/U/R Delver (not really sure) - 0-2 [0-2]
SIDE IN: surgical x2 / SIDE OUT: Anguished x 1, Eternal Scourge x1
Game 1: He got T1 delver into T2 flip, I tried to Path it early but he Mana Leaked the Path and then swing a few times in the air and cast two Lightning Bolts for a quick win.
Game 2: I inquisitioned his delver T1, he delved for a Tasigur on T3, and mana leaked my lingering souls shortly after. I extracted his mana leak asap and managed to steal one from his hand. We both build a bunch of ground board presence, meanwhile I'm just under 10 life, he gets out a Vendilion Clique and swings over the top a few turns for the win.
OP: Delver, delve mechanic, counterspells.
UP: Eldrazi being countered due to no Cavern of Souls.
Notes: Haven't seen much of this deck, but I think some lingering souls and knowing ahead of time I was up against delve would have helped last longer.
Match 3: vs. Jeskai Nahiri - 2-0 [1-2]
SIDE IN: Ratchet x2, Pithing x2, Anguished x1, Surgical x2 / SIDE OUT: strangler x2. path x2, not sure what else maybe mind stones and a Herder.
Game 1: I got there with scourge and souls tokens (went through 3 Lingering Souls cards in one game). On turn 5 I cast a smasher for him to insta-Path it.
Game 2: Turn 1 inquisition a Path into T2 thoughtseize a cryptic command. Game went super long with both players drawing lots of lands, I got lucky by topdecking a smasher the turn after he played a Nahiri, and had enough mana to double cast it through remand thanks to having 3 temples on the field. Beat down Nahiri with Smasher, scourge, and spirit tokens and immediately tried to extract Nahiri only for the extraction to get countered. Won the game a couple turns later.
OP: Lingering Souls was huge in both games, smasher puts on a very quick clock.
UP: Nahiri with no board presence to protect it, strangler with not much to target with -3/-3.
Notes: I've played against this several times on paper, and I think we have quite the favorable matchup unless the card draws are heavily in their favor.
Match 4: vs. R/W allies - 2-1 [2-2]
SIDE IN:Rest x2, Timely x2, ratchet x2, tendrils x2 / SIDE OUT: thoughtseize x2, anguished x1, mind stone x2, relic x1, smasher x2
Game 1: Kept a hand with 4 lands, a path, relic, and anguished. As it was game1 I felt this was safe against the field and I got overrun quickly thanks to no board presence. I drew two herders eventually but could process neither and he went wide very fast. One large mistake made by me was not realizing all 4 of my lands were colorless, leaving the path and inquisition I drew into useless.
Game 2: I dominated the board early to late through an early TKS, into casting two blight herders with processing one turn after the other, and finally a strangler to process and kill an ally.
Game 3: T2 cast rest for the weary, T3 he had zero creatures out and I played a ratchet bomb, T4 he played a creature and the following turn I played Sorin and (-) for a 2/2 flyer and a creature of my own. He bolts my 2/2 in response and the next turn I draw into a smasher and proceed to beatdown with that and sorin's (+) for the win. I had a flaying tendrils ready to cast since turn 3 but it was never needed.
OP: Eldrazi Processing for board presence.
UP: Game 1 without sideboard cards or enough board presence to trade favorably.
Notes: Seems to be a pretty decent matchup post sideboard.
Match 5: vs. Naya burn? - 2-0 [3-2]
SIDE IN:Rest x2, Timely x2, ratchet x2, tendrils x2 / SIDE OUT: thoughtseize x2, anguished x1, mind stone x2, relic x1, smasher x2
Game 1: I process a rift bolt to -3/-3 a swiftspear on T3,play a Sorin and (+) on an empty board, then next turn play a smasher for lifelink from sorin and to begin the beatdown. I was at one life before I got the heal from that turn back up to 7. He conceded after that heal.
Game 2: He opens strong with a T1 Wild Nacatl T2 goblin guide, I t2 rest for the weary, followed by him casting Eidolon of the Great Revel. On my T3 I cast flaying tendrils, taking two from Eidolon but killing his eidolon and guide, leaving the nacatl behind. Next turn I get a herder out with processing, he boros charms me down to 4, I inquisition, he responds by atarka's commanding me down to 1. By turn 4 through a rest heal he had me down to 1, just insane. I swing with smasher + scions to get him down to 10, leaving herder back to block. His draw card didn't get him there and I played another smasher and swung out. What a last game to seal the last match and get my first 3-2 online!
OP: Strangler processing rift bolt to -3/-3 a Monastery Swiftspear on T3. Rest for the Weary literally saves a game.
UP: Wish I could start with 30 life against burn so I wouldn't always think I'm almost dead.
Notes: Find a way to heal or you lose. G1 it may be sorin, or it may be getting lucky with T2 or T3 eldrazi ramping for smashing them down, but post sideboard you'd better buffer your life total asap. Watch out for them to respond to heal spells like Rest or Timely with an instant that prevents you from healing, this negating your heal. Always be paying attention to their open mana and cards in hand and try to guarantee that heal.
Holy hell this thing took a couple hours to type. And that was with the ease of being able to sit there and re-watch all my games at lightning speed on the mtgo client, props to you deaddrift for doing your writeups from paper matches. I will try to keep putting out reports like this from my mtgo leagues, just keep in mind that this is a budget version and not my ideal card setup at all for the 75. And once again please give any advice or criticisms on my sideboarding/plays/etc.
I would like to make a case for trying an alternative direction for a processor deck I think is under-tested and should be explored. I am not claiming it is better than B/W processors, but my testing indicates it is at least viable and worth a shot.
The biggest problem I see with that version is lack of ability to turn the corner and win the game. The B/W processor build counts on turning the corner against the aggro decks with smashers/going wide with tokens, and uses those same things to beat down other mid-range decks. With TKS and Smashers, there is still some occasions where matches go to time (usually against other control decks), and I wouldn't want to play an even slower version of processors. I feel like the value alone of processing isn't enough to get you there. I'm certainly no more experienced than anyone else here, but that is what my initial impression of that list.
In G1 on the draw he dropped a T1 Blood Moon using two SSGs. Dammit!
I think I just died a little bit inside when I read T1 Blood Moon. I fully experienced this over the weekend at the no-banlist tournie, where many of the U/R Delver decks had Blood Moon in the side. That topped with the clunky Eye of Ugin mana-base made for really inconsistent games, either I got a turn 2 TKS/Turn 3 Smasher and ran them over, or my deck played too fair for a no-ban tournie. I would definitely recommend playing the aggro version of eldrazi that caused the Eye ban rather than trying processors for any no-bans in the future, someone was playing it and made it to the finals I believe.
There was definitely silver lining in that tournament, I was looking for a Gemstone Caverns to try out in the deck, and traded for a foil one early in the day from another player. Later in the day I traded for the second Damnation for the sideboard, which I was super happy about. I've been wanting to pick up the second but didn't want to shell out the cash for it, just wanted to trade cards, and was not expecting it to happen so soon.
Experiencing the older version of processors over the weekend got me thinking about the list I've been running, and I think I had been over-critical of a non-processable Strangler or Herder. I was thinking it was really bad to make that play, when in reality it's not a bad play if having more copies of the cards in your list opens you up for more opportunities to cast for full value. So I bumped each back up to 3, and I also tried to get more 2-ofs in the sideboard rather than singles, just to try and get the deck performing more consistently overall.
I'm still stuck between Stony Silences and Disenchants, I'm not seeing affinity or tron right now but I don't want to be missing Stony when I do see them. I'm starting to like the idea of Ratchet Bomb more since the need for disenchant would be less, and Ratchet Bomb can be an out for Blood Moon whereas EE cannot. My current sideboard with EE and Stony does not look set-up for a Blood Moon to make an appearance, I'd be relying heavily on Herders and Anguished, and Anguished is basically not going to be cast for B and W while there's a Blood Moon on the field. My big turn off of Ratchet Bomb has always been how slow it is, especially against stuff like zoo, but maybe in those situations it's not too bad if it's played T1 for 0 or to cast for 1 on T2. Deaddrift, how effective has Ratchet Bomb been at stopping aggro for you? I'm assuming probably well enough that you aren't missing EE and favor Ratchet Bomb being more useful against more things, especially given you said EE did not perform well for you.
I've updated my list for what I'll (hopefully) be playing in two events over the next weekend, it's here and in my sig. I'm pretty sold on every card except the aforementioned sideboard cards, and I'm not sure if trimming GftT was the right call in order to keep Batterskull, or if a Mind Stone would be better. I like having two Mind Stones to increase the odds of an opening hand with ramp, but having an opening hand with two Mind Stones can be pretty awful if it's got not much else. I guess Anguished could be taken out over GftT, but I don't like that thought really. Oh and I pulled out Westvale Abbey in favor of that Gemstone Caverns, after I made those changes to my deck I did some goldfishing and the very first opening hand had my singleton Gemstone Caverns and singleton Scourge (and an eldrazi temple allowing for a T1 Scourge!). I felt the results warranted at least trying it out for some fun this weekend.
I have a sea gate wreckage that I have tested in my standard eldrazi version, but I was under the impression that the modern processors mana curve was to high or I was holding removal to often to make it that useful.
That is the exact same reason I haven't even tried Sea Gate yet for that slot. I prefer Abbey because there's no restrictions to the ability. For how rarely a 1-of land sees the battlefield without maps to fetch it, I don't want to not even be able to use it because I have cards in my hand.
Nice to see it got a top 8. It does seem unfocused running Abbey while also running no Herders. It seems to be focusing heavily on flickering for control and ETB triggers, and Wall of Omens is something I've considered trying out for a 2-drop, having two more cards that give us draw and also blocks to buy time for us to ramp out the fatties. Not sure if it's better than the new eldrazi or Herder which it would replace, but it is something to think about if this meta keeps getting heavier on aggro.
So I've got the no-banlist tournie tomorrow, and I'm hoping for some last minute advice from you guys on some card choices. Here is my current build, similar to the old Eye of Ugin builds while squeezing in some of the banned cards. The sideboad has lot's of 1-ofs because I can dig with Sensei's Divining Top. Where I'm stuck is I would really like to add a 3rd Blight Herder and 3rd Strangler. Herder because with Eye of Ugin there's the possibility of chaining them with multiples in hand (however having 4 cards in exile is not even close to guaranteed), and Strangler to take out The inevitable Delver of Secrets popping up. In order to fit 2 (or even 3) more of these cards I've considered two things. I could cut the two Sowers and Ulamong in favor of these cheaper eldrazi, changing the search function of Eye of Ugin from targeting Ulamog to targeting Herder/Smasher, or cutting the Stoneforge Mystics entirely because with all these sol lands it could be competing with ramped eldrazi both turn 2 and turn 3 (obviously I'd want to use its ability to cheat out a turn 3 Batterskull if I play it on turn 2). Another thing to consider is generating a white by turn 2 to play the Mystic. Lastly, I trimmed a copy of Lingering Souls and I'm really not confident that is the right choice. If you guys see this post I'd love some input to help me finally decide on what to do!
The situations you're describing though are kind of part of my point. You've held back on using a cantrip to get some sort of interaction sure, but it's something you're playing from the battlefield so its not a surprise on your end, and the opponent can play around it. Just being able to use it more flexible as a cantrip allows you greater flexibility.
Rest in Peace plays in the exact same way, but removes the games because you don't have to play them, you've already won on that axis and it is harder to remove but enchantment hate is less common than artifact hate. Jund will maybe use an Abrupt Decay on it, but that puts the Abrupt Decay into exile and basically wastes it.
I also wouldn't remove Processors for the Scourges, the exile effects we have for both play off each other. I was definitely talking about using Lingering Souls slots. Sorry, I'm not trying to be awkward in saying that, I just want to be clear I'm talking about making a version of the deck that works with the synergies between the Processors and the Scourges, plus if you take into account Scourges going into the graveyard rather than just exiling itself under removal it makes cards like Collective Brutality better because you can discard Scourges to fund escalate etc. I mean Black has a ton of method to use something like Scourge, so I'm basically asking people for ideas that would work within the Processor deck that exists.
I meant that in certain matchups I use it for cantrip minimally. I always try to assess how relevant Relic is against an opponent, and against something like burn with zero graveyard play, you bet I'm cantripping ASAP to draw more answers. I think if Rest in Peace didn't non-bo with Lingering Souls so hard it would be incredible in the deck. But Souls is just too good to even consider Rest in Peace, unless like Deaddrift said, you had a local meta that warranted 1-2 in the Sideboard. Souls also pairs with Collective Brutality nicely along with Scourge. I really like Brutality, but I'm just finding it difficult to find room for it even in the sideboard. I don't know if the flexibility alone is enough to justify it, are there matchups where casting Brutality would almost certainly seal a game/match win? I'm not trying to say there aren't, it's just a new card and hard to pinpoint where it shines.
I think Abzan CoCo and Kiki Chord are pretty decent matches for us; I would say about even. But you have to know your outs. Against both decks:
Sandbag a Path, if possible, to remove a combo piece. This can be hard since they have a lot of threats. Careful with your timing. Throat and Unmaking can work but slow us waaaay down compared to the 1 CMC Path.
Keep mana up for a Relic crack (I like to use Ghost Quarter for this if possible because it can hit Gavony Township as well, if needed) in response to the Finks persist trigger--i.e., before it leaves the graveyard, or in response to Eternal Witness naming a target in the yard.
Side in sweepers like Damnation for their beatdown plan. Flaying Tendrils is very good against Abzan CoCo, but much weaker against Kiki Chord. EE and Bomb are decent but not great against both, mostly for their dorks.
Pithing Needle naming Kiki or Viscera Seer (or Gavony Township) is very strong, but both can Chord for Qasali Pridemage so watch out for that.
Consider holding your Thoughtseize/IoK until they have seen a few extra cards rather than casting it T1.
Extract a combo piece if possible. The timing should be the same as you would crack Relic. Since Extraction is "free" to cast they will often not see this coming.
It's easy to lose track of how much mana the decks have available because of all the dorks and Convoke. Both decks can also Chord for lots of toolbox answers, so familiarity with the builds helps with sequencing correctly. Ulamog is too slow for this deck anymore and I feel certain that there is no room in the 75 for him, despite his ability to mill out infinite life opponents.
This is all really good stuff. I did not catch Pithing Needle shutting down Viscera Seer, and I totally agree that holding back discards, especially when it means not taking a shock T1 to play them, is smart. It's nice to fetch or play a shrine T1 and bring it in tapped, then T2 cast a discard spell and relic their card to exile as well. With all our shocks, Anguished, and Thoughtseize it's important to manage life totals.
@Tituba9 At what point are we placing too much strain on an effect that we have as a 4 of in the deck that we also use as a cantrip?
Also I understand the power of Surgical being able to pull out all 4 from your deck, but who is playing 4? And would it even be needed? It would cost 12 mana a turn to play them all, unless you're doing it for the purposes of very psuedo-card draw and deck thinning? Being able to recur 1 or 2 should generally be enough.
I try to use Relic as a cantrip minimally unless it's really late game or I have a backup Relic in hand. Saving Relic to crack in response to something your opponent does is added value and something I've been trying to do more of. I play against lots of Snapcaster, a mill that makes use of Crypt Incursion, Jund,etc. where I need to hold that relic back. That means its on the board longer and for the 1-2 Eternal Scourge in the deck it should always be there for the times when Scourge is in the yard. I think Scourge might see the yard less go straight to exile because any spell/ability the opponent does to it takes it to exile. I was responding to your last question about cards that would be useful with Scourge and I assumed you were talking about a deck that removed processors for a playset of Scourge. In processors I think there's room for 2 Scourge at max and the only support card I would bring in is maybe a Gemstone Caverns over my Abbey for an OP turn 1 on rare occasions.
Thanks for the awesome replay Tituba9. I definitely will make getting marsh flats a priority, I wasn't sure if the extra pain was worth it as I was already having a lot of trouble with all the self inflicted damage against a heavy aggro meta. I have been trying to get them on pucatrade but without much success. I really did enjoy using maps and a bunch of utility lands, but I agree that cutting them for the additional ramp and draw from stones will work much better. I wan under the impression that Urborg was used in order to make eye a tappable land (which we dont need now) and that it was needed for the manabase due to all the colorless lands we use.
Kalitas has been easy enough for me to cast, but that might be due to maps/urborg. He definitely helps a lot for grindy match ups. But I definitely agree that displacer has been a bit underwhelming, especially when it dies to bolt. It does work filtering my opponents hand with TKS and the added strangler value though, provided I can keep it alive long enough. I havent had a chance to try out Eternal Scourge, but it looks very promising. Do you feel that it is just a flex spot or should it be more than that? I also haven't tried reshaper yet, but it does sound better than displacer from your description.
How do you deal with decks that go infinite? I have come across several situations where I was unable to prevent my opponent from gaining infinite life so having an alternate win con like Ulamogs mill proved very useful.
You are right, I forgot about how Urborg made Eye tappable, that was very good. My local meta has shifted to more blue and more aggro lately, which is probably why Kalitas wasn't as effective. I do really like the card and against lots of grindy matchups I can see it doing well. Batterskull is really good in grindy matchups as well, and it's worked out often enough for me where I like it in that flex spot.
I like Eternal Scourge because once you get it in your hand it's all but guaranteed to stick around in the game. But it doesn't effect the game like any of our other eldrazi, so I think it is just a utility card.
Some of my worst matchups are against infinite combo decks (Kiki and Abzan CoCo), due to me just getting into the format and having to learn both what cards these decks run, how they interact, how I stop it, and how the stack works. So hopefully someone else comes along with a better answer, but against Kiki you bascially need to have a Path to Exile/Go for the Throat in hand and the open mana to cast it from turn 4 on. They can turn 4 (maybe 3?) flash in Resto Angel on your end step, then on their turn cast Kiki for the combo. You either peel Kiki or Resto from their hands and extract it, or hold back an instant speed removal. Cracking Relic in response to them casting Chord of Calling and Eternal Witness. I think CoCo is one of the worst matchups for processors, to stop their combo you can crack Relic in response to one of their creature's persist trigger being on the stack, or extract it as well. You can use a Path on a combo piece in response to them casting Melira, Sylvok Outcast, if they are Chording for the last combo piece then before it resolves instant removal a creature on the board. Basically, hold relic/removal to stop the combo rather than casting it as soon as a piece hits the board. But from my experience this matchup is bad for us and often a game is won from a fast opening hand thanks to Temples rather than winning the long game through control. The Ulamog and Conduits in your sideboard would be better as EE/Ratchet Bomb/Pithing Needle/ A second Stony Silence because all those cards will impact more matchups, and will impact the game more often than Ulamog as that is a slow gameplan. Pithing Needle naming Karn, or Lilly against Jund, or Nahiri agianst Jeskai (and now apparantly Kiki Chord decks as well), costs you 1 mana and impacts the game heavily in your favor against a lot of the field.
I think my biggest issues stem from the manabase, but I currently lack the funds for marsh flats and cavern of souls. I do really enjoy having 2x maps and several utility lands, but it does get inconsistent. What is the consensus on Urborg, Thespian's stage, and Westvale? I find I often need more black mana so I like urborg, and we seem to generate a lot of tokens so I like westvale. Thespian's stage, however, seems slow and im not sure of its worth. I have been thinking of trying Vesuva out.
As for creatures, I do like Kalitas, but it looks like deaddrift dropped him/the lifegain flex spot from his list. I really like the lifegain/exile/tokens that he provides. I'm also curious about why you would choose Matter Reshaper over displacer.
Finally, for the sideboard, what do recommend for an unknown meta? I'm currently in the process of moving, so I'm not sure what to expect at a new shop. I used to play against a lot of goblins, elves, kitchen finks, tron, and affinity.
Let me know your thoughts. Again, sorry if most of this was discussed previously in the thread.
For the mana base, Marsh Flats is definitely ideal as it does a few things. It fetches your B/W lands and basics, which will help a lot with your consistency (assuming your issues are generating B/W early in the game). The ability to fetch your basics is pretty key in the modern format as well. I understand it is out of reach for you right now and to compensate I suggest going up to 3 or even 4 Godless Shrine and a third Shambling Vent. Purchasing/trading for those Flats should be your biggest priority for upgrading the deck, you can get away with two Flats and 3 Shrines but most run three Flats and two Shrines. Cut the Isolated Chapel entirely. Cut Urborg as well, we only ran it so we could use Oblivion Sower generated lands and Sower won't be played without Eye of Ugin. You want that slot for the additional B/W lands mentioned above. Same with Thespian's Stage, it is just too slow and most games will just be a non-basic Wastes. Cavern of Souls is not really 100% necessary if you're working with a budget, and most often you only run one so if you get it you don't have to worry much when playing against blue. I run two because I see lots of blue in my local meta and I want to get it more consistently, but you can get away without any, you just play around their open mana for counter-spells. Getting one is much lower priority than Flats. By bumping up your B/W land count and trimming 2-3 utility lands, the need for Expedition Map is gone and you can replace them with Mind Stones. These are a much better fit in the deck as they give us 6 ramps cards for TKS and Smasher rather than just the 4 Temples. They provide cantrip late as well. It is faster than map and provides several things rather than just a fetch. With these Mind Stones you can pretty safely drop the Wastes basic from your list unless you see heavy Blood Moon play. Personally I love Westvale Abbey in the deck as it does quite a lot between going over the top with a flyer, potentially albeit rarely getting value in response to your opponent playing a board-wipe, and generating a token/chump block late game. Many don't play it in favor of, I'd say, a third Ghost Quarter but as our local Tron player has moved onto something else for now, I've been pretty content with just two Ghost Quarters and have had one when I needed it. Actually if you end up with open land slots after cutting Thespian/Wastes/Isolated Chapel, keep the Urborg in for now since you're using Flaying Tendrils in the side. Ideally no Urborg, but since you have no Flats it is probably better than a basic Swamp or something.
I have playtested with both Kalitas and Displacer, but found them both underwhelming in this deck. I think Kalitas shines in Jund because the Jund player can dismantle their opponent's hand/removal and make Kalitas stick, but in my playtesting he was usually quickly removed. He isn't ramped by Temple and BB can be hard to cast, small negative but you do not want to have a hand where kalitas is your only turn 4 play, it's turn 4, and you can't play it. The Kalitas slot basically competes with the smaller Eldrazi, and with the addition of Eternal Scourge there is no room for Kalitas as Scourge with almost definitely impact the game more. Lastly, saccing a 2/2 token for Abbey isn't as good as saccing the 1/1 scions or spirits. Kalitas is a really really good value card, but just not quite the perfect fit for this deck. Maybe deaddrift can give a more in-depth explanation as I did not play Kalitas for very long.
Displacer is really good in Eldrazi and Taxes because it is a more control and lock-down oriented deck. Because it too competes with the small Eldrazi for the slot it needs to consistently give value beyond being a 3/3 to be worth it over Scourge or Reshaper, and in my experience it did not work out. Once again with Eternal Scourge now here, Displacer is more than likely no longer an option in a format where Lightning Bolt reigns supreme. The abundance of removal is actually a good thing for Reshaper, as regardless of the card draw's converted mana cost, it is still a draw and that is good. Also Wasteland Strangler's ETB trigger works off of revealing it to a Reshaper's death trigger, that is some sexy value. Reshaper only does not give value if it is exiled rather than killed/destroyed, and for that reason I am considering dropping it in favor of a second Eternal Scourge. But either of those two cards are more than likely better than Kalitas and Displacer right now.
Going into an unknown meta, I'd start with something like this;
2x Damntation (Flaying Tendrils)Note: I only own 1 damnation and would trim a Pithing Needle/Warping Wail from my S.B. for a second copy if I could.
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Disenchant
2x Stony Silence
3x total between Timely Reinforcements + Rest for the Weary
1x Surgical Extraction
1-2x Pithing Needle
2x Engineering Explosives/Ratchet Bomb
I'm aware previously Rest in Peace hasn't been too impactful in the deck, but if we're playing with Eternal Scourge is it possible we might need to reconsider it as a one of? It does make some fairly big impacts to the deck's make up as it conflicts with Lingering Souls, so I was wondering what people thought of taking the deck in a less token based direction?
I completely understand the value of Lingering Souls btw and I'm not saying it's a better build to go more all in on Eternal Scourge, but we're a deck that can take advantage of a recurring threat like that and I think we may have to be a bit more open about where it could take us and it also lets us lean less heavily on our colours. The problem with Rest in Peace mainboard before was that it didn't do enough, though in some match ups it completely destroyed some decks and did a lot of incidental damage to others (Storm, Dredge, against Snappy and Goyf, Delve card) so I'd probably be testing it as a one of, to basically allow us to use the cantrip side of relics a bit more freely and basically to allow more long game with the Scourges. I'm currently thinking of adding Mind Stone's for card draw/ ramp and maybe some more removal? If anyone can think of any direction or card suggestions that might work in a more midrange/controlish version of the deck or cards in white, black or colourless that would take advantage of either Eternal Scourge, less token or a permentant effect like Rest then let me know?
I think that us being able to target ourselves with Relic's first ability to get Scourge from the yard to exile is enough reason to stick with the god card that is Lingering Souls rather than put RiP in the main or side. If you're all-in on a Scourge deck you need Surgical Extractions to get all 4 copes in exile from 1 in the yard.
What did you take out for the Scourges? Mind posting your list?
I'm not who you were replying to but I'd say trim either a Herder or Strangler to start with a 1-of for testing. I'm not sure the card is a 3 or 4-of in this deck, mostly because we want the value out of the cards we play faster than Eternal Scourge would give us through re-casting it. I can't imagine wanting more than 1 to play with in total between my hand/battlefield/yard/exile, and I can't see trimming anything for more than one or two copies unless you abandon the processor creatures completely. Which I would not consider doing, I think if you're ditching Blight Herders entirely you may as well go to Eldrazi and Taxes to make use of Aether Vials and new Thalia.
I totally agree that cards need to be flexible and give value, the value in our processor creatures is really fun and a big part of why I enjoy the deck. I threw out the idea of cutting mind stones as an attempt to keep up with the meta which has been getting faster (I played against two different goblin aggro decks this week). But back to my previous point on value, the reason I've dropped down to two copies of each processor is I was having 1 or more times a night where I had a processor ready to play, but I'd have had to cast it as a vanilla rather than process and that feels really really bad. You do not want dead cards in your hand, and that's what that situation becomes because you have to decide to drop it vanilla or wait to topdeck an exile effect. Right now I run 1 Reshaper and 1 Eternal Scourge, the logic behind that being that Reshaper is good enough to run one of for the card draw/potential permanent, but I don't want to play more than that as getting it exiled rather than sent to the yard for a draw is losing out on the value (looking at you, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet). Same thing with Eternal Scourge, I want to have something that is recurring and also on the board early to block/interrupt aggro. Obviously the card needs to be killed/exiled to get the value so you want it out there early.
This week I went 2-1-1 running the list in my sig with one change being -1 Pithing Needle, +1 Collective Brutality in the side. Even though against U/B Mill I was able to cast Collective Brutality turn two for a discard, and escalate it discarding Lingering Souls to -2/-2 his Hedron Crab, I feel like the card competes with Warping Wail for spot(s) in the side and I'm leaning toward Warping Wail simply for the facts that I'm not having to discard to escalate with W.W. and I know I'm getting the value out of a counterspell/creature exile whereas the Instant/Sorcery discard on Brutality might whiff (unless you've already had a look at their hand thanks to T1 discard). It just feels like too much setup needs to happen just right to get full value out of brutality.
Another positive on W.W. is it can counter Scapeshift. I have only played this matchup one time, just a couple weeks ago, and the Cryptic Commands kept me at bay long enough for the combo to go off both games. The match up definitely felt bad, and getting a surgical on Snapcaster or Cryptic is probably the best way to stop them from slowing you down. W.W. could definitely be used in the match up, it would be easy to leave two colorless mana open to counter a Scapeshift if you can't make them discard it. And after countering it, it leaves the card in the yard for possible Surgical as well. Am I correct that if we manage to extract Scapeshift we win? I have no knowledge of the deck or match up, so I'm not sure.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the Eternal Scourge I added for this week did see play against an aggro deck. They had to bolt it so they could attack one turn, and the next turn or turn after I brought it back into play. That is exactly what the card should be doing in this deck IMO.
Here is my attempt at a list w/ EMN cards. I am currently considering dropping the two Mind Stones for +1 Matter Reshaper and +1 Wasteland Strangler. The idea behind this is it would decrease the consistency that TKS and Smasher are ramped out, but increase the overall consistency of having Eldrazi on the board earlier in the game. Another pro is adding more CMC 3 creatures benefits the Matter Reshaper(s) in the deck, but maybe I am overlooking the cantrip late game with Mind Stone. Alternatively, maybe the Mind Stones stay and I cut Go for the Throat for either a Reshaper or Strangler. Anyone have thoughts on either of those?
I am also going to be trying out the double Sorin because that +1 is just soooo good
I do love Sorin's +1 a lot, and maybe if I did add more CMC 3 creatures a second one would be decent. More CMC 3 cratures means more creatures on the board when you cast Sorin on T4. Imagine an opening with a ramped CMC 3 Eldrazi on T2, lingering souls on T3, and Sorin +1 on T4. That's pretty sick. However if I stay with Mind Stones and the plan to get TKS/Smasher out asap, I would not get a second Sorin because it would not have as many creatures out to make use of it and Sorin would compete with the big eldrazi for being played in T4.
I see some of your lists trimming down from 4 Path to Exile and/or Lingering Souls and I strongly recommend against that. These are two of the best cards white has in modern and pretty much the reason this deck runs white as one of its colors. I think 4-ofs of these cards are necessary for consistency, and it is better to trim them during sideboarding rather than trimming them from the main entirely.
It's not a huge force in the meta, but beware of decks running Ensnaring Bridge. (Lantern Control and 8 Rack for the most part)
If it resolves you pretty much have no way to win.
Be sure you try and run at least 1 maindeck answer, in my deck I run 2x Oblivion Ring with 2x Sea Gate Wreckage to try and draw into them.
Early testing today, but I drew 4 cards with Wreckage during the course of a long game. The card is really an all star.
Deaddrift had tried using Oblivion Ring rather than Anguished Unmaking because of AU's lifeloss, and after playtesting found that Oblivion Ring was answered too often and the loss from AU is worth the permanent exile. I totally agree with that conclusion and I think that even with your budget verison of the deck, AU's are less than $2 each and deserve a slot, probably two in the 75 as you often see.
Here is a no-banlist version I threw together, afterwards I realized that I overlooked Anguished Unmaking since the lists I was looking at were all from before the SOI release because of the Eye ban. Should I try to make room for a copy or two in the 75?
I'm sorry to say that I feel like I have no real insight into what a no-ban meta would demand from a deck. I kinda feel like this build probably isn't the deck for such a meta, but I agree that SFM and Batterskull seem good. Cloudpost and a Mono-C build seem like they might be better, though.
I agree that it isn't the strongest, but since I've just come back to the game starting with no collection/cards in Dec/Jan, this is my only complete modern deck (R/G tron is getting there). I'm just trying to take the deck I use and optimize it with banlist cards even if it's not the best deck there. And I did manage to get 4th out of 25 the last time they ran the no banlist (in March/April) with the processors deck (Eye wasn't banned yet) and adding in two Sensei's. I think the fact that many people are just going to the no banlist to mess around with OP decks/cards and have fun, while I'm piloting the deck I've played for months, gives me a slight edge and might be enough to top 8 again. I am really looking forward to cheating out Batterskull though, it's gonna be sweet. The list I linked is basically going all-in on getting those OP sol lands out and spamming the board with Eldrazi, I may even aggressively mulligan to get a strong ramp opening.
Seeing as you and I have pretty similar creature/spells in our main 60, where would you suggest I trim a card to make room for a single Eternal Scourge. I managed to trade for a foil one pre-release weekend and I definitely want to give it a shot this Saturday at the weekly modern tournie. I really cannot decide what would go, obviously I love Batterskull too much even though it's a high cost card that might be the best to get taken out for scourge, and the other 3-drop creatures I am hesitant to trim (Reshaper has been kicking some ass, really like it). Also, I definitely agree that Surgical's have maybe been overvalued by us for the S.B, and I'm strongly considering just going with a 1-of from here on out. I really think the comboing GQ or discard with S.E. is a tempo loss we have been overlooking. Cards that I'm considering replacing the open S.B. slot with are: Collective Brutality and/or Blessed Alliance. I'm a big fan of Brutality and I can see it doing serious work against blue decks (instants/sorc and snapcaster), burn/zoo, maybe even jund for scooze/bob/kolgan's command/etc. I think Brutality might deserve up to two spots in the 75, maybe 1 main and 1 side? I've been seriously considering going back up to 5 discards in the main 60 for a while and maybe this fits that role.
I'm not necessarily big on Blessed Alliance, my initial thoughts are Rest for the Weary is muuuuch better against both burn and aggro because a turn 2 heal for 8 is big. But the flexibility for Alliance has some value, and drawing alliance on turn 4+ might be a lot better than Rest on turn 4+.
I think the debate between Ratchet bomb/Engineer Exp. in the sideboard comes down to personal preference. For me, I see two anguished as enough of an answer for planeswalkers and Blood moon that I don't think Ratchet bomb is necessary (I also have seen a blood moon played against me once in the past 6 months). I think that the fact that R.B. can tick up to 3 whereas E.E. cannot with this deck (perhaps gemstone caverns to remedy that along with Eternal Scourge, not necessarily planning on that OP turn 1 combo but when it happens it would be sick) isn't too important because unless you have R.B. turn 1 or 2 to play, you will likely not be able to answer CC=3 perms before you are way behind. I like E.E for the obvious reason that you can have 1 or 2 charges AND blow it up on the same turn you play it, and I would side it in against decks where I'm trying to slow down their aggro asap. Basically I see E.E as a better answer to decks that give us issues more often (read: aggro).
Edit: Forgot to mention something on Brutality. The synergy with Lingering Souls is really good and a big reason I think it may deserve a spot in three main and/or side.
Here is a no-banlist version I threw together, afterwards I realized that I overlooked Anguished Unmaking since the lists I was looking at were all from before the SOI release because of the Eye ban. Should I try to make room for a copy or two in the 75?
Hey guys, I've been on this deck since coming back to MtG after a 12+ year hiatus in December. I've followed the builds and discussion on this thread very closely, and figured now that I've learned a bit about the modern format, and piloting the deck, that I can add to the discussion. Firstly, I feel like the deck is extremely rewarding when you know what cards are in your opponents' deck and their game-plan. Since the deck is so controlly and reactive until you turn the corner, knowing what you're up against is more advantageous to this deck than many others in the format. I have done well at my LGS with this deck, quite often going 2 or 3 wins, and way more often than not my losses come from my lack of experience or knowledge when I play am opponent with a new deck. I agree with deaddrift that this is a strong control deck in modern right now, mainly because it beats other control decks like Jund and Nahiri, and thanks to main and sideboard life-gain can do pretty well against aggro as well. Tron is a nightmare, dear god.
Before I forget I want to mention that I've read a lot of talk about ditching Blight Herder for Eternal Scourge, while I think Scourge could deserve a spot in the list, I don't see running more than a 1-of, maybe two. There is a downside in that it can easily be removed by the opponent, and while lowering the curve would benefit the deck, Blight Herders are awesome and as long as I keep seeing as many as 2 people out of 8-10 running Ancestral Visions at my weekly tournaments I can't see myself removing them entirely. Trimming, sure, but they definitely belong in the deck. I'm also a much bigger fan of Westvale Abbey than most on the deck, which Herder Helps. 1 Eternal Scourge as a recurring presence on the board seems like it would be fine, but I think there's much more value to be had in Stranglers and Reshapers for that 3 drop spot. Speaking of Reshaper, I started playing with it a bit, trying a 3 Strangler/ 1 Reshaper split and now moving to an even 2/2 split, and that card has outperformed my expectations. Two games in a row the revealed card on Reshaper's death was a Strangler and I was able to process and kill a creature of the opponent's with its ETB trigger, talk about value. What I like about Strangler and Reshaper is in a bolt-heavy modern meta, these drops will get you value quickly, whereas Scourge would most likely come into play later (scourge T3, they kill before your T4, hopefully you've got TKS/Smasher/Herder in hand ready for T4).
I love Westvale Abbey in the deck. In my mana base I am either trading off a Shambling Vent or Ghost Quarter for Abbey and I think it's worth it in the relatively slow local meta I play in. This deck performs leaps better when you're getting TKS and Smasher out asap, so losing a tap-land and an self-destruct land for a late-game threat land is something I'm definitely alright with. Abbey's first ability is probably underrated, sure it's worse than Sea-Gate Wreckage if you're just looking at the first ability, but you can use Abbey when you have cards in your hand and that 1/1 can be a damn good chump blocker to buy turns while you topdeck as well. And getting to flip it is basically game-ending, and not necessarily in a win-more way. In a Jund matchup two weeks ago we each had 4-6 creatures on board and empty hands, he's got a 5+ something goyf and a beefed scooze to where I can't even swing with a Herder I've got out, I topdeck either another Herder or a Lingering Souls, flip Abbey, and they scoop when I do. I feel like I'm lucky in that usually we see 0-1 decks running some form of aggro, so I've got a few card decisions based on that. Other than the Abbey I've got a second Cavern of Souls (lots of blue players) and just this week I've decided to go from 3 to 2 Herders in favor of putting Batterskull back in. I ******* love Batterskull and I want it in the deck so much. It's an instant lifelink, 4/4 with vigilance creature at worst, it's an artifact that begs to be removed by your opponent that can also be saved by returning it to your hand, and moving it to a Smasher or Souls token is pretty OP. When I look at Herder and Batterskull as 5-drops, I would so much rather drop the Bskull much of the time, and while ramping a Herder is obviously good, getting the value of processing while ramping can be pretty tricky. I like Abbey and Batterskull both because of the ability to use mana late game on them if/when the draws aren't working in your favor.
Going back to the deck performing leaps better when ramping, I too am pretty sold on Mind Stone as a 2-of. Deaddrifts post just above mine discusses all the reasons to use it, getting a 1-2 turn ramp on Smasher being the strongest reason to play it. Often times I get to play a relic off the 1 mana on T2 when I Mind Stone, and that is a pretty decent set-up turn for this deck. Honestly I would love a second Sorin, but I don't see what else can be taken out for it other than Mind Stone and I don't think that's worth it. Increasing the consistency of ramping TKS and Smasher will get you wins, and the cantrip and colorless source seal the deal that this card deserves a spot.
This list seems very tight right now, and I really struggle with deciding how I can trim even 1 card to get something in for play-testing. It's great to see others having success with the deck locally, it is super fun to play and my favorite line to hear from an opponent is "I hate reality Smasher". I am baffled that there hasn't been any results posted by the deck at a large-scale tournament because I don't see where this deck is weak where other control decks aren't. Maybe it's because there's no pro level players grinding with the deck to perform better with it? Maybe no one's playing it online to have modern league representation?
Now that I've finally made an account, I'll try to make some posts on play reports and such. I think personally I could use lots of info on siding IN/OUT and strategies/game-plans against certain decks, and I'll contribute what I can. It would also be sweet if we could get some discussion on higher level plays that might not come up often, but are useful to know. An example would be "when facing U/B mill, always wait to use Relic's exile all ability and keep it untapped while your opponent has the open mana for Cryptic Incursion to crack it in response and stop their potentially huge lifegain". I mean relic alone has soooo many ways to get more value than just "exile card(s)" and as someone who's trying to play catch-up having recently jumped into modern I am looking for any and all ways to improve my piloting of the deck.
So we've got a modern no-ban tournament coming up in 2 weeks, having done it once before back in February. The first time I took my modern B/W Processors list and simply put in 2 Sensei's Divining Tops and managed to get 4th out of 25 or so. Would you think it would be better to stick with the current creature base for the one in two weeks, or should I bring in the Oblivion Sower and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger package since I'll have Eye of Ugin available to me? I love Sower and was one of the last to take it out of my deck-list one Eye got banned, but the current creature build is much faster and I'm pretty content with Smashers being the main end-game threat. Right now my plan is to go with my current list, -2 Mind Stone/+2 Sensei's, and trimming two other cards for 2 Stoneforge Mystic to tutor and play Batterskull early. Any advice on a no-ban version of the deck would be appreciated.
Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks for all the discussion.
EDIT: I knew I forgot about something. I think Warping Wail deserves some testing in the sideboard and I've been playing with it for a couple weeks. The card is so versatile and that fits the deck pretty well, there are so many creatures in modern that can be exiled with it (and on turn two for 2 mana, 1 being colorless, it enables processors), and it seriously catches people off-guard when you are countering sorceries as a B/W deck. They will not play around Warping Wail and that is to our advantage.
I think it is very much worth it to bring in both stony and E.E against affinity. I side out all relics and mind stones, and if having an opening hand with both a stony and EE means I get to jam a T2 stony and have a dead EE in my hand, I'll gladly take that. Stony shuts down basically everything they can do besides activate their moth lands. Shutting down cranial plating alone can swing the matchup greatly in our favor because of souls, herders, and our big bodied creatures. And if they get removal for the stony, by that time I've got the open mana to EE up to CMC=2 on the same turn I play it as a followup, continuing to shut them down. Each time recently that I have played affinity I have crushed post-boarding with this strategy.
Well I run two caverns in my paper version because there are quite a few blue control decks, I have trimmed a ghost quarter for it and have found two ghost quarters to be enough for me. Also, if you get a look at the blue player's hand and find out which counterspells they have, you can play around it and bait them out earlier on the game to make Smasher stick. Once smasher is on the field, you cannot deny he has way more staying power than Blight Herder. The only time I'd prefer a Herder is if they are getting countered and I get the cast trigger scions anyway. Against Path I would much rather have them discard and take a 2-for-1 in my favor to remove it, meaning I just spent 5 mana to have them discard two cards. If they path a Herder after it resolves, I just paid 5 mana for them to discard one and to get 3 1/1s. I prefer to have them discard two, but that just comes down to preference and how you play the deck.
Edit: Forgot to mention that affinity is the only matchup where stony comes in outside of R/G tron, and in both cases the power of the stony is enough to warrant some anti-synergy.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Damnation
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
This is my latest sideboard, I have swapped my 2x rest for the weary for Blessed Alliance, because Blessed is solid against bogles, bant eldrazi (opposing smashers and removing a 4/4 TKS and getting a draw), and against burn if they prevent your healing, you still get to make them sacrifice a creature. Many people seem to be making that change and after facing bogles both in paper and online within the past week I'm doing it as well.
Sometimes relics are just not enough against graveyard decks, so a 1-of of each grafdiggers and rest in peace are needed in the current meta.
Spellskite is an amazing sideboard card and until the SCG list, my list was the only one I had seen running one. Theres many matches where this card just ruins their day, and it's going to be sticking around for a while in the sideboard.
I've dropped anguished unmaking in the side for a ratchet bomb for a couple reasons. First, my local meta has a U/B mill player and ratchet bomb can take out multiple Ensnaring Bridges, and I both feel the need to keep E.Es for all the aggro decks we currently see, and keep a ratchet bomb to be able to hit CMC = 3 permanents. Ratchet Bomb is also our best out to Blood moon which is popping up more and more. You can count anguished unmaking out as an answer to Blood moon because the likelihood of you getting a swamp, plains, and anguished to remove it is extremely low.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
At a 17 person FNM with the list, I ended up going 3-0-1 (drew going into round 4 to both tie for first), having my best results with the deck yet. The lower curve and added removal really were key in some games. I also had one of those nights where my opening hands and draws were on-point, such as game two and three against bogles having E.E in the opening hand, and facing a ponza deck that misplayed turn 1 and 2 and delayed a possible T3 blood moon allowing me to drop a smasher in before he got a T4 blood moon. The lone smasher eventually swung for the win. But I don't think it was just luck, I think the main 60 Deaddrift has put together is about as optimized as a smasher version can be. The following day I was in a small 8 person 3-rounder, and went 2-1 for second place. The last match was against Jund, and we had a very close game 3 where he won the topdeck war, I'd say both events were a big success and I've shifted my mtgo list to be very similar to my paper list and will hopefully be seeing a bump up from my usual 3-2 finish in league play online.
Everyone's been raving about Collective Brutality, and I had some success with it when I tested it in the sideboard one night at FNM, So I've decided to try and add one in the main 60 for a few tournies and see how it goes. The card I trimmed was one copy of Mind Stone. I chose mind stone because of times where I've had both mind stones in hand early in the game. This change should speed the deck up a tiny bit, and make those situations where the deck opens very slowly less common. Also having added a reshaper recently, it sort of alleviates the loss of a cantrip. I've also wanted to get back to 5 discard for a while, and I like that the 5th discard comes with so much extra utility. Utility cards are great in this deck.
Here is my current 75, for the past week or so I've been working on some sideboard notes, trying to get a more solid idea of what goes in and out for each matchup. If anyone has a list similar to mine and wants tips/discussion/to critique my In/Out choices, let me know and Ill throw the notes up here. Although I will have to go through and update them with the change to Collective Brutality as that's something I've decided to to today.
The sculler + Herder list makes total sense, you use scullers to exile and allow your processing to go off more consistently. I can see why the list runs no smashers and instead focuses on going all-in on processor value. Personally I don't see myself playing in that style, because I prefer to turn the corner with smasher as well as have the option of playing as the aggressor when needed. I'm not particularly a fan of Sculler because it can die so easily and give their card right back (unless you quickly process), and I'm not a fan of Blight Herder because it is easily removed and paying (5) to have 3 1/1s is really underwhelming, whether the herder gets countered or removed. Smasher sticks on the board way better, and the fact that they have similar clocks (with 3 1/1s along with the Herder) isn't really giving smasher credit for having haste. Being able to attack with it the turn you play it is really good, and has saved me so many times against Nahiri. I don't think everyone should necessarily move over to this Herder version because of the results, I believe that since this deck is played very little at large tournament levels, it has very few chances to make a good run. Basically the small representation is surely to lead to less results. Having a solid outting takes a combination of a good decklist, a very good pilot, a bit of the heart of the cards, and a field that is favorable to the deck you brought. Just because the Herder version was the first one to put up results since the creation of the deck (Sowers, Newlamog, and Eye of Ugin), doesn't mean a smasher deck couldn't do just as well. I'll be sticking with smashers unless I see this Herder + Sculler version blowing up and having more impressive results in the coming months.
I can address a few of your comments. Vault of the Archangel is an insane card and needs to stay. Just having the threat of that ability to activate on your opponents turn can and will deny them from attacking into deathtouch 1/1 spirits or scions. There's situations where you've got a creature or other spell in your hand, but it's better to activate vault for the lifelink or deathtouch. It eats up land hate, protecting your Eldrazi Temples. The activation might not happen very often, but just the possibility or threat of it means its literally our best colorless producing utility land.
I have definitely had games where I've been praying for a T1 or T2 relic draw to enable my strangler's processor value. I'm sure the Sculler version alleviates this somewhat. The best way to avoid this is to pay close attention to opening hands and their synergy (or lack thereof), and to be content with a vanilla strangler or herder from time to time.
Most of the people posting of late have tried Eternal Scourge in their list, and I think the consensus is that at the end of the day, the recurring didn't really effect many games as they were decided too quickly, or it just was a boring vanilla 3/3 in a format filled with creatures that do more than have power and toughness.
Matter Reshaper is pretty solid and also fights for Scullers for slots in the main 60 in the Sculler + Herder version. If you go with no Scullers and Smashers, you could run 2-3 Reshapers.
Oblivion Sower is literally the card that got me to make this deck, but it was used because the lands were needed to ramp into Newlamog. There is just very little need for those lands when Sower is already at the top of your curve, and a 5/8 body nice but also a bit overkill for modern, smashers are already some of the biggest creatures played. And it's easily dealt with by removal, meaning you spent 6 mana to get extra lands you didn't need.
I would advise against trimming Dismember for a (6th?) discard. That slot is consistently used for instant-speed removal, either an Anguished Unmaking or Go for the Throat.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
IMO the fact that Disenchant is an instant is way more important than having another tool to exile things for processing. The ability to disenchant an affinity robot post combat tricks, or to cast on a tidehollow sculler the same turn it steals your card in Eldrazi and Taxes. Those are just a couple examples off the top, but the ability to use it more flexibly around your lands (you may have the mana open on your opponents turn as he casts a Blood Moon or Wurmcoil Engine, but wouldn't have that two mana open the following turn as a sorcery). That far outweighs another exiling source. You just have to depend on Relics/etc. and blame the heart of the cards if you aren't able to process every time.
My obviously biased opinion is going to come off as trying to sell you on the deck, because I really like it if I'm here and posting in the first place. I just got into modern in January 2016, and hadn't played any MtG at all for over a decade since my early teens. I chose the modern format because I prefer to make a one time investment instead of continually spending on standard, but more-so I chose it because I like the idea of picking a deck/color(s)/w.e. and grinding with it, learning the ins-and-outs, and mastering it (as well as the modern format) over time. When you play for those reasons it's important to never get too focused on winning, short-term success or losses, but improving as a player of the game over time, investing your time in the game to be better than you were yesterday.
There is a steep learning curve to the powerful decks in modern, and to piloting a deck that is reactive and control, not aggro or linear. It's like you're playing a combo deck except rather than piecing the same combo you're solving the puzzle of how to win the game, and it's going to be differently every game you aren't T2 Thought-Knotting into T3 Reality Smashing. Jumping into modern with any deck you're going to get stomped many many times. When you don't know what you're up against it's hard to plan lines to win/not lose around it. But searching opposing decklists or primers, or reading through forums such as these, combined with practicing the deck will over time reward you with a flexible deck that has a chance against much of the modern meta. This deck is super fun to play and Deaddrift has shown with remarkable consistency that it's capable of going 3-1, 3-0-1, or 4-0 at large FNM/local tournaments.
As for the cards in B/W Processors being used in other modern decks, there are a few that you could transition to. The discard package is used in both Jund and B/W tokens, the Marsh Flats and Godless Shrines, and Lingering Souls, are used in B/W Tokens, and all the Eldrazi are/can be used in Bant Eldrazi and Eldrazi and taxes. With this deck you basically have a large portion of the mana-base for all of B/W Tokens and Eldrazi and Taxes. A big price difference in B/W Processors and all the aforementioned is the price of the decks. Jund is obviously the most expensive modern deck, so I won't explain that one too much. B/W tokens has the $30+ each Bitterblossoms, as well as both Fetid Heaths and Marsh Flats for lands which are each very expensive. Bant Eldrazi has Noble Heirarchs and some additional expensive lands (and sometimes even Tarmogoyfs), and Eldrazi and Taxes Runs Aether Vials. B/W Processors does not have any of these big cost items outside of the unnecessary Cavern of Souls and unnecessary Batterskull and sideboard tech. You can build a pretty budget but effective shell of processors, I made one for MTGO just this weekend and I'll mention it more later in this post.
I'm a huge fan of Smasher in the deck, a 5/5 for 5 with trample, haste, and removal protection that can be out as early as turn 3 is so huge and I'm going to suggest going back up to at least 3, and siding them out as needed. From that list if you're wanting to bring in two Coll. Brut., I'd do -2 Inquisition, -1 Dismember, +2 C.B., +1 Smasher.
I have just joined mtgo this weekend, playing processors and running 1 scourge in my list, and it has been underwhelming. Maybe because I'm only running one, but I'd say half the time it dies in combat and sits in the yard while the game is decided before his recur even comes into play. There are games where I draw him and play him early, and his recur comes into play just a turn or two later, but those are few and far between. Also, it is just a vanilla 3/3 for 3, and doesn't do much other than provide board presence. We have board presence with beefy eldrazi and Herder Processing and Lingering Souls, not sure Scourge is the direction to take the deck. I just realized this is more of a reply to herf's post, I got them mixed up with the quoting.
So as I said, I decided to invest into getting the processor deck on mtgo so I could both get more practice/playtime with the deck (I only average 1 event a week on paper most often, sometimes less). I also wanted to play on mtgo because it forces proper mechanics/usage of the stack.etc. I built processors for about $150, obviously missing big cards like 1 copy of Cavern of Souls and any wrath effects in the sideboard, but it is mostly the standard build we see around here otherwise. Here is the link. I have played in a couple friendly modern leagues so far, going 2-3 the first time and 3-2 the second. Ill try to do a report on the 3-2 league.
Before I get into the matches, I have to say the online meta is very Wasteland Strangler friendly, there is almost always something on the board to kill with the -3/-3 and I am so often wishing to topdeck either a strangler or an exile effect for some value. I have also found Scoruge to be underwhelming so far, and Sorin to be an all-star. On paper Sorin has been above decent, but online so far he has been crushing it, even his (-) has seen at least a couple uses. I have dropped the 1 scourge from that list for a second Sorin because of this, and look forward to trying that out in more leagues.
Match 1: vs. Elves - 1-2 [0-1]
SIDE IN: Ratchet x2, Flaying Tendrils x2, Timely x2 / SIDE OUT: Anguished x 1, Thoughtseize x2, Mind Stone x2, Smasher x1.
Should have included Surgicals here as I could have used more cards in exile since he is not filling the yard with fetches/spells, and the key legendary elves needing extracted and caused me trouble). I had never played against elves before, so any tips on these or any other side board decisions are very welcomed.
Game 1: I got T2 TKS into T3 smasher, into T3 Herder +process, he conceded.
Game 2: Kept a hand with 2x souls, 2x relic, and a shambling vent and Vault. I was afraid the 5 would be worse. Drew a TKS turn 1, and a temple to play it the next turn, however the opponent had 7 elves on the board turn 3 and on my turn 4 I drew the Flaying Tendrils I needed to live but did not have the double black to cast it and lost the next turn to a board full of 8/8 tramples from 17 life.
Game 3: Kept a hand with 2 relics, a sorin, and 3 lands, drew a souls early but he had 9 elves out on turn 3 thanks to a CoCo and I got ran over very quickly.
OP: His board presence, Flaying Tendrils (had I been able to cast it), Herder + Processing for our own presence
UP: Lack of exiling ability since they run mostly basic lands and mostly creatures with little noncreature spells.
Notes: Elves come out fast and wide, and if you aren't getting Strangler or Herder Processing off for board presence, you better have ratchet bombs and/or Flaying Tendrils to wipe them before they beef up and swing for the kill.
Match 2: vs. B/U/R Delver (not really sure) - 0-2 [0-2]
SIDE IN: surgical x2 / SIDE OUT: Anguished x 1, Eternal Scourge x1
Game 1: He got T1 delver into T2 flip, I tried to Path it early but he Mana Leaked the Path and then swing a few times in the air and cast two Lightning Bolts for a quick win.
Game 2: I inquisitioned his delver T1, he delved for a Tasigur on T3, and mana leaked my lingering souls shortly after. I extracted his mana leak asap and managed to steal one from his hand. We both build a bunch of ground board presence, meanwhile I'm just under 10 life, he gets out a Vendilion Clique and swings over the top a few turns for the win.
OP: Delver, delve mechanic, counterspells.
UP: Eldrazi being countered due to no Cavern of Souls.
Notes: Haven't seen much of this deck, but I think some lingering souls and knowing ahead of time I was up against delve would have helped last longer.
Match 3: vs. Jeskai Nahiri - 2-0 [1-2]
SIDE IN: Ratchet x2, Pithing x2, Anguished x1, Surgical x2 / SIDE OUT: strangler x2. path x2, not sure what else maybe mind stones and a Herder.
Game 1: I got there with scourge and souls tokens (went through 3 Lingering Souls cards in one game). On turn 5 I cast a smasher for him to insta-Path it.
Game 2: Turn 1 inquisition a Path into T2 thoughtseize a cryptic command. Game went super long with both players drawing lots of lands, I got lucky by topdecking a smasher the turn after he played a Nahiri, and had enough mana to double cast it through remand thanks to having 3 temples on the field. Beat down Nahiri with Smasher, scourge, and spirit tokens and immediately tried to extract Nahiri only for the extraction to get countered. Won the game a couple turns later.
OP: Lingering Souls was huge in both games, smasher puts on a very quick clock.
UP: Nahiri with no board presence to protect it, strangler with not much to target with -3/-3.
Notes: I've played against this several times on paper, and I think we have quite the favorable matchup unless the card draws are heavily in their favor.
Match 4: vs. R/W allies - 2-1 [2-2]
SIDE IN:Rest x2, Timely x2, ratchet x2, tendrils x2 / SIDE OUT: thoughtseize x2, anguished x1, mind stone x2, relic x1, smasher x2
Game 1: Kept a hand with 4 lands, a path, relic, and anguished. As it was game1 I felt this was safe against the field and I got overrun quickly thanks to no board presence. I drew two herders eventually but could process neither and he went wide very fast. One large mistake made by me was not realizing all 4 of my lands were colorless, leaving the path and inquisition I drew into useless.
Game 2: I dominated the board early to late through an early TKS, into casting two blight herders with processing one turn after the other, and finally a strangler to process and kill an ally.
Game 3: T2 cast rest for the weary, T3 he had zero creatures out and I played a ratchet bomb, T4 he played a creature and the following turn I played Sorin and (-) for a 2/2 flyer and a creature of my own. He bolts my 2/2 in response and the next turn I draw into a smasher and proceed to beatdown with that and sorin's (+) for the win. I had a flaying tendrils ready to cast since turn 3 but it was never needed.
OP: Eldrazi Processing for board presence.
UP: Game 1 without sideboard cards or enough board presence to trade favorably.
Notes: Seems to be a pretty decent matchup post sideboard.
Match 5: vs. Naya burn? - 2-0 [3-2]
SIDE IN:Rest x2, Timely x2, ratchet x2, tendrils x2 / SIDE OUT: thoughtseize x2, anguished x1, mind stone x2, relic x1, smasher x2
Game 1: I process a rift bolt to -3/-3 a swiftspear on T3,play a Sorin and (+) on an empty board, then next turn play a smasher for lifelink from sorin and to begin the beatdown. I was at one life before I got the heal from that turn back up to 7. He conceded after that heal.
Game 2: He opens strong with a T1 Wild Nacatl T2 goblin guide, I t2 rest for the weary, followed by him casting Eidolon of the Great Revel. On my T3 I cast flaying tendrils, taking two from Eidolon but killing his eidolon and guide, leaving the nacatl behind. Next turn I get a herder out with processing, he boros charms me down to 4, I inquisition, he responds by atarka's commanding me down to 1. By turn 4 through a rest heal he had me down to 1, just insane. I swing with smasher + scions to get him down to 10, leaving herder back to block. His draw card didn't get him there and I played another smasher and swung out. What a last game to seal the last match and get my first 3-2 online!
OP: Strangler processing rift bolt to -3/-3 a Monastery Swiftspear on T3. Rest for the Weary literally saves a game.
UP: Wish I could start with 30 life against burn so I wouldn't always think I'm almost dead.
Notes: Find a way to heal or you lose. G1 it may be sorin, or it may be getting lucky with T2 or T3 eldrazi ramping for smashing them down, but post sideboard you'd better buffer your life total asap. Watch out for them to respond to heal spells like Rest or Timely with an instant that prevents you from healing, this negating your heal. Always be paying attention to their open mana and cards in hand and try to guarantee that heal.
Holy hell this thing took a couple hours to type. And that was with the ease of being able to sit there and re-watch all my games at lightning speed on the mtgo client, props to you deaddrift for doing your writeups from paper matches. I will try to keep putting out reports like this from my mtgo leagues, just keep in mind that this is a budget version and not my ideal card setup at all for the 75. And once again please give any advice or criticisms on my sideboarding/plays/etc.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
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The biggest problem I see with that version is lack of ability to turn the corner and win the game. The B/W processor build counts on turning the corner against the aggro decks with smashers/going wide with tokens, and uses those same things to beat down other mid-range decks. With TKS and Smashers, there is still some occasions where matches go to time (usually against other control decks), and I wouldn't want to play an even slower version of processors. I feel like the value alone of processing isn't enough to get you there. I'm certainly no more experienced than anyone else here, but that is what my initial impression of that list.
I think I just died a little bit inside when I read T1 Blood Moon. I fully experienced this over the weekend at the no-banlist tournie, where many of the U/R Delver decks had Blood Moon in the side. That topped with the clunky Eye of Ugin mana-base made for really inconsistent games, either I got a turn 2 TKS/Turn 3 Smasher and ran them over, or my deck played too fair for a no-ban tournie. I would definitely recommend playing the aggro version of eldrazi that caused the Eye ban rather than trying processors for any no-bans in the future, someone was playing it and made it to the finals I believe.
There was definitely silver lining in that tournament, I was looking for a Gemstone Caverns to try out in the deck, and traded for a foil one early in the day from another player. Later in the day I traded for the second Damnation for the sideboard, which I was super happy about. I've been wanting to pick up the second but didn't want to shell out the cash for it, just wanted to trade cards, and was not expecting it to happen so soon.
Experiencing the older version of processors over the weekend got me thinking about the list I've been running, and I think I had been over-critical of a non-processable Strangler or Herder. I was thinking it was really bad to make that play, when in reality it's not a bad play if having more copies of the cards in your list opens you up for more opportunities to cast for full value. So I bumped each back up to 3, and I also tried to get more 2-ofs in the sideboard rather than singles, just to try and get the deck performing more consistently overall.
I'm still stuck between Stony Silences and Disenchants, I'm not seeing affinity or tron right now but I don't want to be missing Stony when I do see them. I'm starting to like the idea of Ratchet Bomb more since the need for disenchant would be less, and Ratchet Bomb can be an out for Blood Moon whereas EE cannot. My current sideboard with EE and Stony does not look set-up for a Blood Moon to make an appearance, I'd be relying heavily on Herders and Anguished, and Anguished is basically not going to be cast for B and W while there's a Blood Moon on the field. My big turn off of Ratchet Bomb has always been how slow it is, especially against stuff like zoo, but maybe in those situations it's not too bad if it's played T1 for 0 or to cast for 1 on T2. Deaddrift, how effective has Ratchet Bomb been at stopping aggro for you? I'm assuming probably well enough that you aren't missing EE and favor Ratchet Bomb being more useful against more things, especially given you said EE did not perform well for you.
I've updated my list for what I'll (hopefully) be playing in two events over the next weekend, it's here and in my sig. I'm pretty sold on every card except the aforementioned sideboard cards, and I'm not sure if trimming GftT was the right call in order to keep Batterskull, or if a Mind Stone would be better. I like having two Mind Stones to increase the odds of an opening hand with ramp, but having an opening hand with two Mind Stones can be pretty awful if it's got not much else. I guess Anguished could be taken out over GftT, but I don't like that thought really. Oh and I pulled out Westvale Abbey in favor of that Gemstone Caverns, after I made those changes to my deck I did some goldfishing and the very first opening hand had my singleton Gemstone Caverns and singleton Scourge (and an eldrazi temple allowing for a T1 Scourge!). I felt the results warranted at least trying it out for some fun this weekend.
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That is the exact same reason I haven't even tried Sea Gate yet for that slot. I prefer Abbey because there's no restrictions to the ability. For how rarely a 1-of land sees the battlefield without maps to fetch it, I don't want to not even be able to use it because I have cards in my hand.
Nice to see it got a top 8. It does seem unfocused running Abbey while also running no Herders. It seems to be focusing heavily on flickering for control and ETB triggers, and Wall of Omens is something I've considered trying out for a 2-drop, having two more cards that give us draw and also blocks to buy time for us to ramp out the fatties. Not sure if it's better than the new eldrazi or Herder which it would replace, but it is something to think about if this meta keeps getting heavier on aggro.
So I've got the no-banlist tournie tomorrow, and I'm hoping for some last minute advice from you guys on some card choices. Here is my current build, similar to the old Eye of Ugin builds while squeezing in some of the banned cards. The sideboad has lot's of 1-ofs because I can dig with Sensei's Divining Top. Where I'm stuck is I would really like to add a 3rd Blight Herder and 3rd Strangler. Herder because with Eye of Ugin there's the possibility of chaining them with multiples in hand (however having 4 cards in exile is not even close to guaranteed), and Strangler to take out The inevitable Delver of Secrets popping up. In order to fit 2 (or even 3) more of these cards I've considered two things. I could cut the two Sowers and Ulamong in favor of these cheaper eldrazi, changing the search function of Eye of Ugin from targeting Ulamog to targeting Herder/Smasher, or cutting the Stoneforge Mystics entirely because with all these sol lands it could be competing with ramped eldrazi both turn 2 and turn 3 (obviously I'd want to use its ability to cheat out a turn 3 Batterskull if I play it on turn 2). Another thing to consider is generating a white by turn 2 to play the Mystic. Lastly, I trimmed a copy of Lingering Souls and I'm really not confident that is the right choice. If you guys see this post I'd love some input to help me finally decide on what to do!
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I meant that in certain matchups I use it for cantrip minimally. I always try to assess how relevant Relic is against an opponent, and against something like burn with zero graveyard play, you bet I'm cantripping ASAP to draw more answers. I think if Rest in Peace didn't non-bo with Lingering Souls so hard it would be incredible in the deck. But Souls is just too good to even consider Rest in Peace, unless like Deaddrift said, you had a local meta that warranted 1-2 in the Sideboard. Souls also pairs with Collective Brutality nicely along with Scourge. I really like Brutality, but I'm just finding it difficult to find room for it even in the sideboard. I don't know if the flexibility alone is enough to justify it, are there matchups where casting Brutality would almost certainly seal a game/match win? I'm not trying to say there aren't, it's just a new card and hard to pinpoint where it shines.
This is all really good stuff. I did not catch Pithing Needle shutting down Viscera Seer, and I totally agree that holding back discards, especially when it means not taking a shock T1 to play them, is smart. It's nice to fetch or play a shrine T1 and bring it in tapped, then T2 cast a discard spell and relic their card to exile as well. With all our shocks, Anguished, and Thoughtseize it's important to manage life totals.
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I try to use Relic as a cantrip minimally unless it's really late game or I have a backup Relic in hand. Saving Relic to crack in response to something your opponent does is added value and something I've been trying to do more of. I play against lots of Snapcaster, a mill that makes use of Crypt Incursion, Jund,etc. where I need to hold that relic back. That means its on the board longer and for the 1-2 Eternal Scourge in the deck it should always be there for the times when Scourge is in the yard. I think Scourge might see the yard less go straight to exile because any spell/ability the opponent does to it takes it to exile. I was responding to your last question about cards that would be useful with Scourge and I assumed you were talking about a deck that removed processors for a playset of Scourge. In processors I think there's room for 2 Scourge at max and the only support card I would bring in is maybe a Gemstone Caverns over my Abbey for an OP turn 1 on rare occasions.
You are right, I forgot about how Urborg made Eye tappable, that was very good. My local meta has shifted to more blue and more aggro lately, which is probably why Kalitas wasn't as effective. I do really like the card and against lots of grindy matchups I can see it doing well. Batterskull is really good in grindy matchups as well, and it's worked out often enough for me where I like it in that flex spot.
I like Eternal Scourge because once you get it in your hand it's all but guaranteed to stick around in the game. But it doesn't effect the game like any of our other eldrazi, so I think it is just a utility card.
Some of my worst matchups are against infinite combo decks (Kiki and Abzan CoCo), due to me just getting into the format and having to learn both what cards these decks run, how they interact, how I stop it, and how the stack works. So hopefully someone else comes along with a better answer, but against Kiki you bascially need to have a Path to Exile/Go for the Throat in hand and the open mana to cast it from turn 4 on. They can turn 4 (maybe 3?) flash in Resto Angel on your end step, then on their turn cast Kiki for the combo. You either peel Kiki or Resto from their hands and extract it, or hold back an instant speed removal. Cracking Relic in response to them casting Chord of Calling and Eternal Witness. I think CoCo is one of the worst matchups for processors, to stop their combo you can crack Relic in response to one of their creature's persist trigger being on the stack, or extract it as well. You can use a Path on a combo piece in response to them casting Melira, Sylvok Outcast, if they are Chording for the last combo piece then before it resolves instant removal a creature on the board. Basically, hold relic/removal to stop the combo rather than casting it as soon as a piece hits the board. But from my experience this matchup is bad for us and often a game is won from a fast opening hand thanks to Temples rather than winning the long game through control. The Ulamog and Conduits in your sideboard would be better as EE/Ratchet Bomb/Pithing Needle/ A second Stony Silence because all those cards will impact more matchups, and will impact the game more often than Ulamog as that is a slow gameplan. Pithing Needle naming Karn, or Lilly against Jund, or Nahiri agianst Jeskai (and now apparantly Kiki Chord decks as well), costs you 1 mana and impacts the game heavily in your favor against a lot of the field.
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For the mana base, Marsh Flats is definitely ideal as it does a few things. It fetches your B/W lands and basics, which will help a lot with your consistency (assuming your issues are generating B/W early in the game). The ability to fetch your basics is pretty key in the modern format as well. I understand it is out of reach for you right now and to compensate I suggest going up to 3 or even 4 Godless Shrine and a third Shambling Vent. Purchasing/trading for those Flats should be your biggest priority for upgrading the deck, you can get away with two Flats and 3 Shrines but most run three Flats and two Shrines. Cut the Isolated Chapel entirely. Cut Urborg as well, we only ran it so we could use Oblivion Sower generated lands and Sower won't be played without Eye of Ugin. You want that slot for the additional B/W lands mentioned above. Same with Thespian's Stage, it is just too slow and most games will just be a non-basic Wastes. Cavern of Souls is not really 100% necessary if you're working with a budget, and most often you only run one so if you get it you don't have to worry much when playing against blue. I run two because I see lots of blue in my local meta and I want to get it more consistently, but you can get away without any, you just play around their open mana for counter-spells. Getting one is much lower priority than Flats. By bumping up your B/W land count and trimming 2-3 utility lands, the need for Expedition Map is gone and you can replace them with Mind Stones. These are a much better fit in the deck as they give us 6 ramps cards for TKS and Smasher rather than just the 4 Temples. They provide cantrip late as well. It is faster than map and provides several things rather than just a fetch. With these Mind Stones you can pretty safely drop the Wastes basic from your list unless you see heavy Blood Moon play. Personally I love Westvale Abbey in the deck as it does quite a lot between going over the top with a flyer, potentially albeit rarely getting value in response to your opponent playing a board-wipe, and generating a token/chump block late game. Many don't play it in favor of, I'd say, a third Ghost Quarter but as our local Tron player has moved onto something else for now, I've been pretty content with just two Ghost Quarters and have had one when I needed it. Actually if you end up with open land slots after cutting Thespian/Wastes/Isolated Chapel, keep the Urborg in for now since you're using Flaying Tendrils in the side. Ideally no Urborg, but since you have no Flats it is probably better than a basic Swamp or something.
I have playtested with both Kalitas and Displacer, but found them both underwhelming in this deck. I think Kalitas shines in Jund because the Jund player can dismantle their opponent's hand/removal and make Kalitas stick, but in my playtesting he was usually quickly removed. He isn't ramped by Temple and BB can be hard to cast, small negative but you do not want to have a hand where kalitas is your only turn 4 play, it's turn 4, and you can't play it. The Kalitas slot basically competes with the smaller Eldrazi, and with the addition of Eternal Scourge there is no room for Kalitas as Scourge with almost definitely impact the game more. Lastly, saccing a 2/2 token for Abbey isn't as good as saccing the 1/1 scions or spirits. Kalitas is a really really good value card, but just not quite the perfect fit for this deck. Maybe deaddrift can give a more in-depth explanation as I did not play Kalitas for very long.
Displacer is really good in Eldrazi and Taxes because it is a more control and lock-down oriented deck. Because it too competes with the small Eldrazi for the slot it needs to consistently give value beyond being a 3/3 to be worth it over Scourge or Reshaper, and in my experience it did not work out. Once again with Eternal Scourge now here, Displacer is more than likely no longer an option in a format where Lightning Bolt reigns supreme. The abundance of removal is actually a good thing for Reshaper, as regardless of the card draw's converted mana cost, it is still a draw and that is good. Also Wasteland Strangler's ETB trigger works off of revealing it to a Reshaper's death trigger, that is some sexy value. Reshaper only does not give value if it is exiled rather than killed/destroyed, and for that reason I am considering dropping it in favor of a second Eternal Scourge. But either of those two cards are more than likely better than Kalitas and Displacer right now.
Going into an unknown meta, I'd start with something like this;
2x Damntation (Flaying Tendrils)Note: I only own 1 damnation and would trim a Pithing Needle/Warping Wail from my S.B. for a second copy if I could.
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Disenchant
2x Stony Silence
3x total between Timely Reinforcements + Rest for the Weary
1x Surgical Extraction
1-2x Pithing Needle
2x Engineering Explosives/Ratchet Bomb
I think that us being able to target ourselves with Relic's first ability to get Scourge from the yard to exile is enough reason to stick with the god card that is Lingering Souls rather than put RiP in the main or side. If you're all-in on a Scourge deck you need Surgical Extractions to get all 4 copes in exile from 1 in the yard.
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I'm not who you were replying to but I'd say trim either a Herder or Strangler to start with a 1-of for testing. I'm not sure the card is a 3 or 4-of in this deck, mostly because we want the value out of the cards we play faster than Eternal Scourge would give us through re-casting it. I can't imagine wanting more than 1 to play with in total between my hand/battlefield/yard/exile, and I can't see trimming anything for more than one or two copies unless you abandon the processor creatures completely. Which I would not consider doing, I think if you're ditching Blight Herders entirely you may as well go to Eldrazi and Taxes to make use of Aether Vials and new Thalia.
I totally agree that cards need to be flexible and give value, the value in our processor creatures is really fun and a big part of why I enjoy the deck. I threw out the idea of cutting mind stones as an attempt to keep up with the meta which has been getting faster (I played against two different goblin aggro decks this week). But back to my previous point on value, the reason I've dropped down to two copies of each processor is I was having 1 or more times a night where I had a processor ready to play, but I'd have had to cast it as a vanilla rather than process and that feels really really bad. You do not want dead cards in your hand, and that's what that situation becomes because you have to decide to drop it vanilla or wait to topdeck an exile effect. Right now I run 1 Reshaper and 1 Eternal Scourge, the logic behind that being that Reshaper is good enough to run one of for the card draw/potential permanent, but I don't want to play more than that as getting it exiled rather than sent to the yard for a draw is losing out on the value (looking at you, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet). Same thing with Eternal Scourge, I want to have something that is recurring and also on the board early to block/interrupt aggro. Obviously the card needs to be killed/exiled to get the value so you want it out there early.
This week I went 2-1-1 running the list in my sig with one change being -1 Pithing Needle, +1 Collective Brutality in the side. Even though against U/B Mill I was able to cast Collective Brutality turn two for a discard, and escalate it discarding Lingering Souls to -2/-2 his Hedron Crab, I feel like the card competes with Warping Wail for spot(s) in the side and I'm leaning toward Warping Wail simply for the facts that I'm not having to discard to escalate with W.W. and I know I'm getting the value out of a counterspell/creature exile whereas the Instant/Sorcery discard on Brutality might whiff (unless you've already had a look at their hand thanks to T1 discard). It just feels like too much setup needs to happen just right to get full value out of brutality.
Another positive on W.W. is it can counter Scapeshift. I have only played this matchup one time, just a couple weeks ago, and the Cryptic Commands kept me at bay long enough for the combo to go off both games. The match up definitely felt bad, and getting a surgical on Snapcaster or Cryptic is probably the best way to stop them from slowing you down. W.W. could definitely be used in the match up, it would be easy to leave two colorless mana open to counter a Scapeshift if you can't make them discard it. And after countering it, it leaves the card in the yard for possible Surgical as well. Am I correct that if we manage to extract Scapeshift we win? I have no knowledge of the deck or match up, so I'm not sure.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the Eternal Scourge I added for this week did see play against an aggro deck. They had to bolt it so they could attack one turn, and the next turn or turn after I brought it back into play. That is exactly what the card should be doing in this deck IMO.
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I do love Sorin's +1 a lot, and maybe if I did add more CMC 3 creatures a second one would be decent. More CMC 3 cratures means more creatures on the board when you cast Sorin on T4. Imagine an opening with a ramped CMC 3 Eldrazi on T2, lingering souls on T3, and Sorin +1 on T4. That's pretty sick. However if I stay with Mind Stones and the plan to get TKS/Smasher out asap, I would not get a second Sorin because it would not have as many creatures out to make use of it and Sorin would compete with the big eldrazi for being played in T4.
I see some of your lists trimming down from 4 Path to Exile and/or Lingering Souls and I strongly recommend against that. These are two of the best cards white has in modern and pretty much the reason this deck runs white as one of its colors. I think 4-ofs of these cards are necessary for consistency, and it is better to trim them during sideboarding rather than trimming them from the main entirely.
Deaddrift had tried using Oblivion Ring rather than Anguished Unmaking because of AU's lifeloss, and after playtesting found that Oblivion Ring was answered too often and the loss from AU is worth the permanent exile. I totally agree with that conclusion and I think that even with your budget verison of the deck, AU's are less than $2 each and deserve a slot, probably two in the 75 as you often see.
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I agree that it isn't the strongest, but since I've just come back to the game starting with no collection/cards in Dec/Jan, this is my only complete modern deck (R/G tron is getting there). I'm just trying to take the deck I use and optimize it with banlist cards even if it's not the best deck there. And I did manage to get 4th out of 25 the last time they ran the no banlist (in March/April) with the processors deck (Eye wasn't banned yet) and adding in two Sensei's. I think the fact that many people are just going to the no banlist to mess around with OP decks/cards and have fun, while I'm piloting the deck I've played for months, gives me a slight edge and might be enough to top 8 again. I am really looking forward to cheating out Batterskull though, it's gonna be sweet. The list I linked is basically going all-in on getting those OP sol lands out and spamming the board with Eldrazi, I may even aggressively mulligan to get a strong ramp opening.
Seeing as you and I have pretty similar creature/spells in our main 60, where would you suggest I trim a card to make room for a single Eternal Scourge. I managed to trade for a foil one pre-release weekend and I definitely want to give it a shot this Saturday at the weekly modern tournie. I really cannot decide what would go, obviously I love Batterskull too much even though it's a high cost card that might be the best to get taken out for scourge, and the other 3-drop creatures I am hesitant to trim (Reshaper has been kicking some ass, really like it). Also, I definitely agree that Surgical's have maybe been overvalued by us for the S.B, and I'm strongly considering just going with a 1-of from here on out. I really think the comboing GQ or discard with S.E. is a tempo loss we have been overlooking. Cards that I'm considering replacing the open S.B. slot with are: Collective Brutality and/or Blessed Alliance. I'm a big fan of Brutality and I can see it doing serious work against blue decks (instants/sorc and snapcaster), burn/zoo, maybe even jund for scooze/bob/kolgan's command/etc. I think Brutality might deserve up to two spots in the 75, maybe 1 main and 1 side? I've been seriously considering going back up to 5 discards in the main 60 for a while and maybe this fits that role.
I'm not necessarily big on Blessed Alliance, my initial thoughts are Rest for the Weary is muuuuch better against both burn and aggro because a turn 2 heal for 8 is big. But the flexibility for Alliance has some value, and drawing alliance on turn 4+ might be a lot better than Rest on turn 4+.
I think the debate between Ratchet bomb/Engineer Exp. in the sideboard comes down to personal preference. For me, I see two anguished as enough of an answer for planeswalkers and Blood moon that I don't think Ratchet bomb is necessary (I also have seen a blood moon played against me once in the past 6 months). I think that the fact that R.B. can tick up to 3 whereas E.E. cannot with this deck (perhaps gemstone caverns to remedy that along with Eternal Scourge, not necessarily planning on that OP turn 1 combo but when it happens it would be sick) isn't too important because unless you have R.B. turn 1 or 2 to play, you will likely not be able to answer CC=3 perms before you are way behind. I like E.E for the obvious reason that you can have 1 or 2 charges AND blow it up on the same turn you play it, and I would side it in against decks where I'm trying to slow down their aggro asap. Basically I see E.E as a better answer to decks that give us issues more often (read: aggro).
Edit: Forgot to mention something on Brutality. The synergy with Lingering Souls is really good and a big reason I think it may deserve a spot in three main and/or side.
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Before I forget I want to mention that I've read a lot of talk about ditching Blight Herder for Eternal Scourge, while I think Scourge could deserve a spot in the list, I don't see running more than a 1-of, maybe two. There is a downside in that it can easily be removed by the opponent, and while lowering the curve would benefit the deck, Blight Herders are awesome and as long as I keep seeing as many as 2 people out of 8-10 running Ancestral Visions at my weekly tournaments I can't see myself removing them entirely. Trimming, sure, but they definitely belong in the deck. I'm also a much bigger fan of Westvale Abbey than most on the deck, which Herder Helps. 1 Eternal Scourge as a recurring presence on the board seems like it would be fine, but I think there's much more value to be had in Stranglers and Reshapers for that 3 drop spot. Speaking of Reshaper, I started playing with it a bit, trying a 3 Strangler/ 1 Reshaper split and now moving to an even 2/2 split, and that card has outperformed my expectations. Two games in a row the revealed card on Reshaper's death was a Strangler and I was able to process and kill a creature of the opponent's with its ETB trigger, talk about value. What I like about Strangler and Reshaper is in a bolt-heavy modern meta, these drops will get you value quickly, whereas Scourge would most likely come into play later (scourge T3, they kill before your T4, hopefully you've got TKS/Smasher/Herder in hand ready for T4).
I love Westvale Abbey in the deck. In my mana base I am either trading off a Shambling Vent or Ghost Quarter for Abbey and I think it's worth it in the relatively slow local meta I play in. This deck performs leaps better when you're getting TKS and Smasher out asap, so losing a tap-land and an self-destruct land for a late-game threat land is something I'm definitely alright with. Abbey's first ability is probably underrated, sure it's worse than Sea-Gate Wreckage if you're just looking at the first ability, but you can use Abbey when you have cards in your hand and that 1/1 can be a damn good chump blocker to buy turns while you topdeck as well. And getting to flip it is basically game-ending, and not necessarily in a win-more way. In a Jund matchup two weeks ago we each had 4-6 creatures on board and empty hands, he's got a 5+ something goyf and a beefed scooze to where I can't even swing with a Herder I've got out, I topdeck either another Herder or a Lingering Souls, flip Abbey, and they scoop when I do. I feel like I'm lucky in that usually we see 0-1 decks running some form of aggro, so I've got a few card decisions based on that. Other than the Abbey I've got a second Cavern of Souls (lots of blue players) and just this week I've decided to go from 3 to 2 Herders in favor of putting Batterskull back in. I ******* love Batterskull and I want it in the deck so much. It's an instant lifelink, 4/4 with vigilance creature at worst, it's an artifact that begs to be removed by your opponent that can also be saved by returning it to your hand, and moving it to a Smasher or Souls token is pretty OP. When I look at Herder and Batterskull as 5-drops, I would so much rather drop the Bskull much of the time, and while ramping a Herder is obviously good, getting the value of processing while ramping can be pretty tricky. I like Abbey and Batterskull both because of the ability to use mana late game on them if/when the draws aren't working in your favor.
Going back to the deck performing leaps better when ramping, I too am pretty sold on Mind Stone as a 2-of. Deaddrifts post just above mine discusses all the reasons to use it, getting a 1-2 turn ramp on Smasher being the strongest reason to play it. Often times I get to play a relic off the 1 mana on T2 when I Mind Stone, and that is a pretty decent set-up turn for this deck. Honestly I would love a second Sorin, but I don't see what else can be taken out for it other than Mind Stone and I don't think that's worth it. Increasing the consistency of ramping TKS and Smasher will get you wins, and the cantrip and colorless source seal the deal that this card deserves a spot.
This list seems very tight right now, and I really struggle with deciding how I can trim even 1 card to get something in for play-testing. It's great to see others having success with the deck locally, it is super fun to play and my favorite line to hear from an opponent is "I hate reality Smasher". I am baffled that there hasn't been any results posted by the deck at a large-scale tournament because I don't see where this deck is weak where other control decks aren't. Maybe it's because there's no pro level players grinding with the deck to perform better with it? Maybe no one's playing it online to have modern league representation?
Now that I've finally made an account, I'll try to make some posts on play reports and such. I think personally I could use lots of info on siding IN/OUT and strategies/game-plans against certain decks, and I'll contribute what I can. It would also be sweet if we could get some discussion on higher level plays that might not come up often, but are useful to know. An example would be "when facing U/B mill, always wait to use Relic's exile all ability and keep it untapped while your opponent has the open mana for Cryptic Incursion to crack it in response and stop their potentially huge lifegain". I mean relic alone has soooo many ways to get more value than just "exile card(s)" and as someone who's trying to play catch-up having recently jumped into modern I am looking for any and all ways to improve my piloting of the deck.
So we've got a modern no-ban tournament coming up in 2 weeks, having done it once before back in February. The first time I took my modern B/W Processors list and simply put in 2 Sensei's Divining Tops and managed to get 4th out of 25 or so. Would you think it would be better to stick with the current creature base for the one in two weeks, or should I bring in the Oblivion Sower and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger package since I'll have Eye of Ugin available to me? I love Sower and was one of the last to take it out of my deck-list one Eye got banned, but the current creature build is much faster and I'm pretty content with Smashers being the main end-game threat. Right now my plan is to go with my current list, -2 Mind Stone/+2 Sensei's, and trimming two other cards for 2 Stoneforge Mystic to tutor and play Batterskull early. Any advice on a no-ban version of the deck would be appreciated.
Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks for all the discussion.
EDIT: I knew I forgot about something. I think Warping Wail deserves some testing in the sideboard and I've been playing with it for a couple weeks. The card is so versatile and that fits the deck pretty well, there are so many creatures in modern that can be exiled with it (and on turn two for 2 mana, 1 being colorless, it enables processors), and it seriously catches people off-guard when you are countering sorceries as a B/W deck. They will not play around Warping Wail and that is to our advantage.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR