Its interesting to hear Tectonic Edge being discussed as I've had a recent run of opponents playing Cavern of Souls. Merfolk, Zombies (of all decks), and some other deck I can't remember. Having 2 or 3 dead counters in your hand is the least fun scenario to be in. I'm not sure if the proper sideboard option is to ditch most counters for more board wipes, spot removal or to bring in Tectonic Edge.
Either way, I'm definitely bringing in 2 or 3 Far // Away back in as a sideboard option after my recent encounters. Electrolyze is still good, but may become the first card(s) to get side boarded out dependi
the lack of 2nd on color fetchlands and the need to have 7 colored mana on turn 7 or 8 make Tec Edges pretty much unplayable for us unfortunately. I have tested them and I was always just frustrated to not be able to cast my ultimatum. My tests were mostly against jund/junk before the bannings, they were good for treetops but mostly prevented me from winning. Against other decks like UWR, affinity and other top tier decks they also gave me more trouble than help. Lastly against tron, I prefer to have SB options against it than screwing up my main mana base only for a MU that can easily not be defined by a tec edge.
Yeah I dropped from 3 to 2 and now I'm thinking of cutting elctrolyze entirely :/
Nop, this is wrong, electrolyze gives us an additional card which we definitely need. If we are to cut electrolyze completely we need something to compensate
If you are really worried about burn you need spellskite and maybe even witchbane orb, which could help in a mirror or uwr.
I ran across Sorin's Thirst which does a decent lightning helix impersenation.
Sorin's thirst, or Pharika's cure for that matter are not even close to decent to lightning helix. Doesn't kill aggressive openings, only goblin guide, and you can't send it to the dome.
Chandra is one of the worst planeswalkers ever printed. She has no way to gain loyalty without losing card advantage. Her second ability is bad for us since we are a control deck that wants to hold up mana for counterspells and removal. Her ultimate is nice, but most planeswalker ultimates are. The worst thing of all is that she is a 6 mana sorcery that doesn't set your opponent back like Cruel Ultimatum does.
What this deck really needs is a good midgame draw spell like Fact or Fiction (I can keep hoping). Actually, any way to gain large amounts of card advantage before turn 7 would be nice.
Well that is why we run think twice/shadow of doubt etc where other control decks don't
I wonder if there's anything we take from this UWR list in the PT finals.
Threads of Disloyalty? But for real, we get to see, I think, why people prefer UWR instead of grixis control. Path to exile and Sideboard options were key to winning this PT and is what we are the weakest. I don't think we have a worse main build, maybe lacking lightning helix but I don't think it is that important. So overall we need, I think to adjust the sideboard and see what is the best way to fit in the hole of path to exile.
What this deck is really missing is a good planeswalker like Ajani Vengeant. Still, Grixis seems like it should be doing better than it is.
I don't think this statement is necessarily true. There are lists of UWR control w/o planeswalkers. Also,the fact that Ajani won an aired game doesn't mean it is THE best thing the deck runs. I believe the sideboard options is what makes all the difference and we need to work in that direction. And Grixis isn't doing better because it is not played, not cause it's bad.
I wonder if there's anything we take from this UWR list in the PT finals.
Threads of Disloyalty? But for real, we get to see, I think, why people prefer UWR instead of grixis control. Path to exile and Sideboard options were key to winning this PT and is what we are the weakest. I don't think we have a worse main build, maybe lacking lightning helix but I don't think it is that important. So overall we need, I think to adjust the sideboard and see what is the best way to fit in the hole of path to exile.
You know what's even more demoralizing than nicol bolas after a cruel ultimatum? Another Cruel Ultimatum
Jumping in the bandwagon here, more demoralizing is a cruel ultimatum into a snapcaster cruel ultimatum with the snapcaster you just picked from your gy
I was searching for cards to help us against larger control decks (like Tron) and I came across Venser, Shaper Savant. I think he can be of good value as a counterspell or purely to shift the favor of the board and he comes with a body. His mana cost is decent for our curve. What do you think?
So I have about 3 weeks to prepare for a GPT and here is the list I would run tomorrow (but since the GPT is not tomorrow everything is a subject to change):
Should I run a 3rd damnation mainboard or is it too excessive? And if so should I remove the hero's downfall for it?
Should I run a 4rth cryptic command? I have found that 3 is a good number due to the high casting cost.
Is Jace worth it or it should be replace by a winning condition or another card draw?
Should I run a 2nd reflecting pool mainboard?
And considering sideboard I have a lot of stuff that I am not sure about. Like, thoughtseizes and spellskites should be in there? Maybe instead of the relics run more rakdos charm?
Well I hope you are not overwhelmed by questions I am trying to bring more things in the discussion
Cruel ultimatum gains life, it handles the board state very well too.
Instant speed eot lightning bolt with snapcaster beats in a format where everyone starts at 14-16 life
Electrolyze points are worthwhile too, and they result in card draw.
Yeah but there is a reason why this deck is not tier 1 yet. Although imho it can definitely be and it needs to see more play, there a few things that keep people from actually playing it and preferring UWR control over it.
And that something is not, in my opinion, the lack of 2nd fetchlands on our colors. It is an extra good winning condition OR some form of removal/lifegain. Everything else is superb in grixis control.
We have plenty options for card draw, we don't need a walker either. We have burn, snapcaster beats and cruel ultimatum.and tarpit
Burn is not a real winner for us since se only run only a playset of burn. Snapcaster beats is unreliable. Yes lands are excellent (both manlands) and ultimatum ofcourse but putting in there a lifegaining planeswalker, or a token creating planeswalker, generally something to handle the board could raise this deck to the top
We really just need some good card draw or a good planeswalker we can use as good condition.
I think we actually need a planeswalker. Card draw we can find in many different ways, cruel ultimatum, think twice, shadow of doubt you name it. We don't really lack draw unless it is something special that comes with black (thus we have it exclusively in control decks).
A planeswalker on the other hand will give us flexibility and (hopefully) a winning condition. So we are looking for a good rakdos colors planeswalker to seal the deal imho.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
4 Augur of Bolas
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Batterskull
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
2 Electrolyze
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
1 Repeal
4 Serum Visions
2 Terminate
1 Thoughtflare
1 Blood Crypt
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Dreadship Reef
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Halimar Depths
1 Island
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Combust
1 Countersquall
1 Deathmark
2 Mana Leak
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shattering Spree
2 Sowing Salt
Any comments?
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Nop, this is wrong, electrolyze gives us an additional card which we definitely need. If we are to cut electrolyze completely we need something to compensate
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Sorin's thirst, or Pharika's cure for that matter are not even close to decent to lightning helix. Doesn't kill aggressive openings, only goblin guide, and you can't send it to the dome.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I don't think this statement is necessarily true. There are lists of UWR control w/o planeswalkers. Also,the fact that Ajani won an aired game doesn't mean it is THE best thing the deck runs. I believe the sideboard options is what makes all the difference and we need to work in that direction. And Grixis isn't doing better because it is not played, not cause it's bad.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Threads of Disloyalty? But for real, we get to see, I think, why people prefer UWR instead of grixis control. Path to exile and Sideboard options were key to winning this PT and is what we are the weakest. I don't think we have a worse main build, maybe lacking lightning helix but I don't think it is that important. So overall we need, I think to adjust the sideboard and see what is the best way to fit in the hole of path to exile.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Jumping in the bandwagon here, more demoralizing is a cruel ultimatum into a snapcaster cruel ultimatum with the snapcaster you just picked from your gy
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Unfortunately I dont have marsh flats, I have 2 Misty rainforest but I dont know if I should run em
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Electrolyze
2 Inquisition of Kozliek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spell Snare
3 Think Twice
1 Blackleave Cliffs
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Blood Crypt
2 Steam Vents
2 Water Grave
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Reflecting Pool
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Combust
2 Counterflux
1 Magma Spray
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellhear Chimera
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Vandalblast
Some stuff that I am thinking:
Should I run a 3rd damnation mainboard or is it too excessive? And if so should I remove the hero's downfall for it?
Should I run a 4rth cryptic command? I have found that 3 is a good number due to the high casting cost.
Is Jace worth it or it should be replace by a winning condition or another card draw?
Should I run a 2nd reflecting pool mainboard?
And considering sideboard I have a lot of stuff that I am not sure about. Like, thoughtseizes and spellskites should be in there? Maybe instead of the relics run more rakdos charm?
Well I hope you are not overwhelmed by questions I am trying to bring more things in the discussion
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Yeah but there is a reason why this deck is not tier 1 yet. Although imho it can definitely be and it needs to see more play, there a few things that keep people from actually playing it and preferring UWR control over it.
And that something is not, in my opinion, the lack of 2nd fetchlands on our colors. It is an extra good winning condition OR some form of removal/lifegain. Everything else is superb in grixis control.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Burn is not a real winner for us since se only run only a playset of burn. Snapcaster beats is unreliable. Yes lands are excellent (both manlands) and ultimatum ofcourse but putting in there a lifegaining planeswalker, or a token creating planeswalker, generally something to handle the board could raise this deck to the top
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I think we actually need a planeswalker. Card draw we can find in many different ways, cruel ultimatum, think twice, shadow of doubt you name it. We don't really lack draw unless it is something special that comes with black (thus we have it exclusively in control decks).
A planeswalker on the other hand will give us flexibility and (hopefully) a winning condition. So we are looking for a good rakdos colors planeswalker to seal the deal imho.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past