A Grixis control build with that and forked bolt could be good. What do people think about strangleroot Geist in Bant? Is it better than selfless/rattlechains?
it's hard to cast, color requirements would indicate having 18 G sources and thus the manabase would get warped. other than that, it's a solid card, if you can fit it in. It probably belongs more in the 5c build, along with bloodghast and eidolon of the great revel
This is what I'm looking at for my deck to start the year.
Slots I'm looking to flex on.
3 Thalia, critical? I think thats largely a meta call I suppose. Condemn in the side, is really only there for GDS, however I dont much life gain, or removal, could throw in Settle.
I really like thalia, her power is very underappreciated because people can't determine how much work she puts in the games she's involved in. I'm not sure about geist of saint traft as it's very meta-dependent, you might prefer nebelgast herald if there were more creature/midrange matchups and less control/combo.
Against grixis death's shadow, condemn seems a bit winmore as you already have blessed alliance which can be used to make the opponents gain 4 life, thus shrinking or killing death's shadow (also the sacrifice mode is relevant). I personally respect their stubborn denials and thus prefer creatures that can interact, like nebelgast herald or reflector mage
meddling mage is not that necessary imho, your configuration has enough ways to beat control
One last thing: i suggest you to have some bounce or disenchant effect in your 75, like echoing truth, because otherwise you don't have ways to defeat a resolved ensnaring bridge
btw, after Ravnica Allegiance spoilers (in which there hopefully be some useful spirits) i will make a call for whoever is willing to help updating the primer
kira and phantasmal image don't work with curious obsession, maybe you could remove some kiras? in many matchups, including humans, kira is just a 2/2 flyer for 3 (a wind drake).
You could either run more nebelgast heralds, which are extremely good against humans, or topplegeist as an additional 1-drop to enchant with curious obsession. IMHO you should run 4 curious obsession anyway since the card is soo good that you possibly want it in multiples
What does everybody think about Incubation // Incongruity. Mainly the Incubation half of the spell. Could this help us with card selection, or is the sorcery speed too much of a down side ?
Incubation
[U/G]
Sorcery
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of the library in a random order.
Incongruity
1UG
Instant
Exile target creature. That creature's controller creates a 3/3 green Frog Lizard creature token.
very interesting card. I doubt it will work in bant since it's a noncreature, but it might just work in UW.
In my games I really didn't had any problems casting Collected. Most of the times I had a fetch in hand, whitch will fetch for any green combination of mana. There are 9 lands out of 20 that can provide the green source I need, fetches, shocks and forest.
The only I had once problems to cast, was Knight of Autumn, but it was only 1 time from all my games played, because of caverns and territories, but it cames very powerful along with Eidolon when opponent and me are low health thanks to vials. I will keep it inside after all.
I was thinking of adding 1 or 2 Reflecting Pool, but it's a bit dangerous. With slivers, sometimes I drew both reflecting on my opening hand, ouch. Ancient would be a nice one, but it will cut 1 mana for collected.
Also, I was thinking of making it 5 color with bloodghast, but I think it's better this way.
if you want to keep company in the deck (something i don't agree with) at least think about getting to 23 lands, you really need to hit the fourth land in time. Also, imho you should move towards a more heavily fetch/shock manabase, maybe sacrificing some unclaimed territory and keeping the 4 cavern of souls
I also suggest you to keep some removals in the sideboard, i'd go with path to exile
I'm trying a 4 color spirits, and I have to say, I'm loving it.
Strangleroot Geist and Eidolon of the Great Revel in my past games were doing it excelent. With vials playing Eidolon is one of my favorites plays. And most when they have low lifes and I control more creatures, with the threat of a queller.
And with geists, sometimes I had to force my oponent to do a wrath of god because of the lords, and that made them a huge headache for them.
The only problem, that your build shares, is its manabase. Basically, you first need to decide wheter you want Collected Company (fetch/shock manabase) or Cavern of Souls/Unclaimed Territory. Unfortunately, it's an aut-aut, the two option are mutually exclusive since you only have 20 slots in which you have to fit 18 multicolour sources (that's what's necessary to reliably cast bloodghast and strangleroot geist) AND 10-ish sources of green for the coloured spell.
Second, you won't be able to cast collected company with 20 lands, i suggest you to go at least to 22, if not 23, especially because you don't have a mana dork.
My suggestion is, then, to abandon collected company in favor of a fully rainbow manabase and fill those slots with Dismember
Here's the list i propose to you
Use the buttons you find in the desktop version of the site or use the tags (deck) and (/deck) within square brackets
Else, just quote this message in order to see how it's written
spirit of the labyrinth is a very interesting card and in this meta i can see it used with proficiency. MagicAids used it in the mainboard in his latest video (5c spirits) and it seems thalia, guardian of thraben+spirit of the labyrinth is a very effective hate package against combo decks. SOTL also has a cute combo with geier reach sanitarium, if you want to deploy it mainboard.
All in all, i think it might be an interesting addition as long as phoenix decks are among the best decks out there, with incidental hate on other combo and control.
NB. as stated before, eidolon of rhetoric and wetball are solid options in addition to RIP
Serum Visions seems the proof that we really needed that surveil2 one-drop 1/1 flying spirit (which would be somewhat better, in my opinion, as it would be a body instead of a cantrip effect)
Oh well, i won't complain as long as spirits is top of the meta and doing well (especially since we got so much love in m19), we'll see in the next set if we'll get our most-needed 1CMC spirit
i've tried midnight haunting and found it a bit lackluster. It would be great if paired with nebelgast herald, but then you risk having an excessively steep curve with 15 or 16 3-drops.
UW has not many other viable options though, so the choice is yours. what list were you planning to play?
Also: if you don't mind splashing for black there would be lingering souls
I've been playing Bant Spirits in the last week replacing my humans and UW spirits...
I've been struggling agains't Jund.
Do you guys take out the 4x vial and 4xnobles against them?
would you mind sharing your list?
Assuming you do run 4x vials and 4x nobles, i think it's an interesting approach to take out most of the acceleration in favor of slower but more impactful spells. As the games with jund usually develop, speed isn't as necessary as the ability to grind, and you'll eventually find enough lands for your cocos (coco is one of the best topdecks you can possibly want against jund).
If you do run them, some number of Rest in peace should be a good option, as well as any creature you can deploy (even geist of saint traft!) in order to make the creature density as high as possible. I would even go as far as deploying knight of autumn for "no value" if i can, as a vanilla 3 mana 4/3.
I would look to take out vials first, as they don't provide acceleration for CoCo and are hit by Kholaghan's command/assassin's trophy, and then nobles if you still have anything good in the sideboard to side in. In any case, i'd look to take out all vials before the nobles
Lastly, i would recommend a kira, great glass-spinner in the 75 if you feel grindy decks are prevalent in your meta.
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
thanks to the mod team
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
Anyway, i invite you to read the primer's budget sections (in the first page) as they focus on the topic you raised.
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
it's hard to cast, color requirements would indicate having 18 G sources and thus the manabase would get warped. other than that, it's a solid card, if you can fit it in. It probably belongs more in the 5c build, along with bloodghast and eidolon of the great revel
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
btw, i think we can work with deputy of detention. it's more fragile than reflector mage, but it's more versatile and has a more powerful effect
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
I really like thalia, her power is very underappreciated because people can't determine how much work she puts in the games she's involved in. I'm not sure about geist of saint traft as it's very meta-dependent, you might prefer nebelgast herald if there were more creature/midrange matchups and less control/combo.
Against grixis death's shadow, condemn seems a bit winmore as you already have blessed alliance which can be used to make the opponents gain 4 life, thus shrinking or killing death's shadow (also the sacrifice mode is relevant). I personally respect their stubborn denials and thus prefer creatures that can interact, like nebelgast herald or reflector mage
meddling mage is not that necessary imho, your configuration has enough ways to beat control
One last thing: i suggest you to have some bounce or disenchant effect in your 75, like echoing truth, because otherwise you don't have ways to defeat a resolved ensnaring bridge
btw, after Ravnica Allegiance spoilers (in which there hopefully be some useful spirits) i will make a call for whoever is willing to help updating the primer
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
2 flooded strand
2 windswept heath
2 misty rainforest
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 temple garden
1 island
1 plains
1 forest
3 seachrome coast
2 botanical sanctum
1 horizon canopy
1 cavern of souls
1 moorland haunt
i prefer horizon canopy to razorverge thicket but these are interchangeable
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
You could either run more nebelgast heralds, which are extremely good against humans, or topplegeist as an additional 1-drop to enchant with curious obsession. IMHO you should run 4 curious obsession anyway since the card is soo good that you possibly want it in multiples
very interesting card. I doubt it will work in bant since it's a noncreature, but it might just work in UW.
if you want to keep company in the deck (something i don't agree with) at least think about getting to 23 lands, you really need to hit the fourth land in time. Also, imho you should move towards a more heavily fetch/shock manabase, maybe sacrificing some unclaimed territory and keeping the 4 cavern of souls
I also suggest you to keep some removals in the sideboard, i'd go with path to exile
4 cavern of souls
4 wooded foothills
3 scalding tarn
3 flooded strand
2 stomping ground
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 temple garden
1 sacred foundry
1 steam vents
1 island
1 forest
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
i really like your take! i brewed with a "parallel" version using bloodghast instead of eidolon of the great revel, and it was a ton of fun!
The only problem, that your build shares, is its manabase. Basically, you first need to decide wheter you want Collected Company (fetch/shock manabase) or Cavern of Souls/Unclaimed Territory. Unfortunately, it's an aut-aut, the two option are mutually exclusive since you only have 20 slots in which you have to fit 18 multicolour sources (that's what's necessary to reliably cast bloodghast and strangleroot geist) AND 10-ish sources of green for the coloured spell.
Second, you won't be able to cast collected company with 20 lands, i suggest you to go at least to 22, if not 23, especially because you don't have a mana dork.
My suggestion is, then, to abandon collected company in favor of a fully rainbow manabase and fill those slots with Dismember
Here's the list i propose to you
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Mana Confluence
2 Reflecting Pool
2 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Horizon Canopy
Creatures
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Supreme phantom
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Bloodghast
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Spell Queller
4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember
3 damping sphere
3 eidolon of the great revel
3 remorseful cleric
3 gaddock teeg
3 knight of autumn
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
Else, just quote this message in order to see how it's written
20 forest
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
All in all, i think it might be an interesting addition as long as phoenix decks are among the best decks out there, with incidental hate on other combo and control.
NB. as stated before, eidolon of rhetoric and wetball are solid options in addition to RIP
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
stop telling me to play bant spirits
EDIT: the answer to this: i'm in love with the coco
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
Oh well, i won't complain as long as spirits is top of the meta and doing well (especially since we got so much love in m19), we'll see in the next set if we'll get our most-needed 1CMC spirit
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
UW has not many other viable options though, so the choice is yours. what list were you planning to play?
Also: if you don't mind splashing for black there would be lingering souls
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G
would you mind sharing your list?
Assuming you do run 4x vials and 4x nobles, i think it's an interesting approach to take out most of the acceleration in favor of slower but more impactful spells. As the games with jund usually develop, speed isn't as necessary as the ability to grind, and you'll eventually find enough lands for your cocos (coco is one of the best topdecks you can possibly want against jund).
If you do run them, some number of Rest in peace should be a good option, as well as any creature you can deploy (even geist of saint traft!) in order to make the creature density as high as possible. I would even go as far as deploying knight of autumn for "no value" if i can, as a vanilla 3 mana 4/3.
I would look to take out vials first, as they don't provide acceleration for CoCo and are hit by Kholaghan's command/assassin's trophy, and then nobles if you still have anything good in the sideboard to side in. In any case, i'd look to take out all vials before the nobles
Lastly, i would recommend a kira, great glass-spinner in the 75 if you feel grindy decks are prevalent in your meta.
Elves || GSpirits G || Spirits || Fish
Pauper
GElvesG || CAffinityC
Commander
G Roon (and the Hidden Realms) G