A couple of questions: What exactly was difficult about the Merfolk matchup? And how did the GDS matchup feel? Both are matchups I have yet to encounter with my list.
--> In my opinion this matchup is a race in which it can be very important to tap their creatures and prevent them from blocking (that is why I like Thalia 2.0 or Abzan Falconer). Especially turns 4-5. I just think with your build you have a ton of dead cards against them 3 sin collector, 3 freebooter, 2 meddling mage and they just run over you. A mana dork into 3drop into two 2-drops makes the race much easier compared to a steady curve 1,2,3.
The GDS matchup is almost an auto-win. I have played the matchup like 20 times now and never lost.
What I have found with Meddling Mage is that it requires a very good knowledge of the format and a keen awareness of your opponent's outs/most important draws. In the videos I posted, there were several times where Mage was bad because I made it bad. But with careful piloting, I think it's still a good card. It is tough playing it before any Freebooters/Collectors/Reflector Mages, but I've still found the lockout plan to be worthwhile. I just need to get better at it. My only other concern would be overloading the deck with 3 drops - even with the 7th mana dork, the deck will be even more reliant on a T1 dork. When I ran 8 dorks in the 3 drop heavy Bant build, it was absurdly slow. Don't underestimate the power of a good curve.
I agree that Meddling Mage can be good. But even if you know the meta (which I do), it is almost useless if you have to play it before you play a freebooter or a sin collector and even then they have a turn to response and play the card. For example, what do you name blind against Valakut decks? Sure there are decks like Ad nauseam where MM is great ..but to be honest..who is still playing AD nauseam? I rather have stronger creatures compared to certain matchups that I don't face very often.
I'm not sure Thalia 2.0 is the go-to card if you're having issues against something like Merfolk. It's not like their creatures have haste and most of their lands are basics. I'd recommend going for a flyer - Mantis Rider has been great for me against Merfolk and other various creature matchups in the Bant red build, and should be castable with the mana base and maybe fitting in a Sacred Foundry. If you want to keep the mana base more stable, maybe Lyev Skyknight or Abzan Falcomer? I'm not a big fan of either, but they could provide enough evasion to improve these matchups. This may just be a case where not all the matchups are going to be great, so you have to pick your battles. The Bant Red list is fantastic against Merfolk, but is much worse against a lot of the matchups that the Bant black list is great at (Ad Nauseum, especially G1, being a great example).
I am not sure abouth Thalia 2.0 either but I think it is one of the best options without being too risky with the mana. Abzan Falconer was always great for me and won me a lot of games against creature decks (actually no one ever removed it), because these decks are often short on removal. I took it out after your removal argument, but I might take it back in. I just think it is less impressive compared to Thalia 2.0
So I played kingcars list at a local modern tournament and went 5-0 ($90 prize) ;). I played the following list: The mana base and the sideboard are slightly different
Game 1: Counters Company 2-0
Game 2: Merfolk 2-1 (that was extremely difficult and I believe that this build is unfavored in this matchup. This is why I think some changes have to be done.
Game 3: Grixis Death Shadow 2-0
Game 4: Bant Knightfall 2-0
Game 5: Lantern Control 2-0 (Freebooter into Meddling Mage was insane here in Game 1, because he had 3 Bridges in hand).
Summary: While the hand-disruption package was acceptable to good, I think the Meddling Mages are not good enough for the main. While they were winning me Game 1 against Lantern, I didn't have any useful application for them in the other matchups. It is extremely difficult to hit something in the dark. In addition, I think that 6 manadorks is not enough. The deck lives from explosives starts and even the disruptive package wants to be accelerated in. Anafenza turned out to be really good. However, I want to have 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar to improve certain creature matchups.
I would propose the following maindeck changes:
-2 Meddling Mage
-1 Anafenza ( I prefer a 2/2 legendary creature ratio over 3 Anafenza)
+1 Avacyn's Pilgrim (improves speed)
+2 Thalia V2.0 (improves creature and some greedy manabases matchups)
Also the sideboard needs some adaption against creature decks. The question is if I want Meddling Mage in the side or more specific hate.
I will give your configuration a try. However, I think we don't need the red in the sideboard (including the land). Since your maindeck is very disruptive already I think the focus of your sideboard should go a little bit more towards the very small aggressive creature decks. Therefore, I think you should play 2 Orzhov Pontiff and cutting the Izzet staticaster and the land. Even though no human, I would prefer Reclamation Sage over Vithian Renegades but if you want them I think you can still keep them without adding the additional stomping ground in the side. I personally also prefer Stony Silence instead of Kathaki because it is acceptable to good in the Eldrazi tron matchup.
This deck crushes storm. Freebooter, Sin Collector and Meddling Mage pretty easily shut down their gameplan, and there's even Kambal in the sideboard for extra hate. I removed old Thalia from my CoCo Humans builds a while ago, as she often hurt me just as much, if not more, than my opponent. She regularly blocked my own CoCos and Paths. Especially in a deck like this one with so much hate for non creature spells, there isn't a reason to run her. Anafenza, the Foremost is an important finisher and helps grow the smaller bodies in the deck. Don't underestimate the clock this card puts out. I rarely lose games when I'm swinging and placing counters with her. Also, playing her on T2 against Living End and Dredge is quite fun!
@ kingcars
I am missing old Thalia in your deck.is it not worth it? How is your storm matchup without her. Do you think she could be played instead of anafenza or does that result in too many 2 drops?
I personally play 2 townships and they won a lot of games
I tested the Freebooter today against burn and it didn't perform well because they are able to get there spell back with Searing Blood and searing blaze. I wonder if it could be a sideboard card against valakut, storm, maybe even eldrazi tron.
I tested Mantis Rider and I really liked it. However, I agree that you lose the disruption because I was replacing 2 new Thalias and 2 Sin Collector for Mantis Riders so we might lose some percentage against Valakut and Storm if playing Mantis Rider. However, a Titanshift player told me that Mantis Rider is pretty good and hard to predict.
I play tested Titanshift vs. Humans a lot. My Humans' list is 58 of 60 cards the same, the only difference being 3 Sin Collector instead of 2 and Abzan Falconer. I also have 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar instead of 3/3. The SB is nearly the same as well.
Vs. Titanshift, the first thing to realize is that you're slightly unfavored. I would approximate it to be around 48/52. The way you win is to get a Champion of the Parish to 4 toughness or bigger and use this to do the last points of damage while your other creatures die to Sweltering Suns or Anger of the Gods. Sin Collector is key here, as it always nabs a big piece, from key ramp (not usually the choice) to Hour of Promise or Scapeshift. Meddling Mage can be important to, but there's no way that you can name everything important. You just hope to name the right thing (Anger of the Gods for example and dodge Lightning Bolt) and get a bit lucky. You really need to put the pedal to the metal in this matchup. If you wait around long enough, you can't beat them in the long game. I should say that since I playtested it so often, this is one of my current favorite matchups. When I run Knightfall, I despise playing against Titanshift. Probably sounds a bit odd to some people...
I've played against Burn sparingly, but I feel that the matchup is favored for us, probably around 55/45. Sin Collector is a boss. Early Champion of the Parish, Thalia's Lieutenant, and mana dorks with Gavony Township is enough to race them sometimes. If you land Collected Company, it can be pretty devastating for them. Kambal, Consul of Allocation is very good and you really hope to dodge Searing Blaze for a bit anyway. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben can be very strong against them and can often be lights out to a mana screwed opponent. I just think that there's too many things that can go our way, although we could be stuck with the Horizon Canopy draw that is fragile also. Honestly, I haven't been nut drawn by this deck in a while and I've also drawn well for Humans, so my experience could be skewed slightly, but I honestly feel that we have a slight to "average sized" edge on them.
What is your opinion about freebooter compared to Sin Collector? When I finished 2nd at that SCG IQ, Sin collector was the worst card, but I guess it was just based on the matchups I faced.
Today I playtested a list with -3 new thalia, -1 abzan falconer for +4 Mantis Rider. I added 4 Unclaimed Territory to the deck and it felt really strong. Any opinions?
BTW: If you have a champion and a mana dork in hand, what do you usually play first? I usually start with the dork.
Unclaimed Territory is indeed the first step every Human deck must follow to improve Burn. Play 4 !
Eidolons could be 2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, she helps vs Burn and Storm altogether.
You can cut 1 RIP, the only graveyard deck we can't beat is Living End. You should also cut a Stony, it would give you 2 slots for 2x Izzet Staticasters, which are very good proactive plays VS Dredge, Affi, Elves, etc...
The more Humans you have in your SB, the better.
Thanks for the advice. I had the feeling that I can cut one rip too.
I run 3 Thalia (old and new) main. Playing the territories. .would you run virithian renegades over rec sage?
Which cards are in your opinion best sb cards against burn and valakut? (Kambal, unified will. Auriok champion. Aven mindcensor. Meddling mage )?
Another question: Did any one ever try Hanweir Garrison? It seems that the tokens trigger champion and lieutenant.
I lost to mono red dragon stompy, won against eggs, esper death shadow, eldrazi tron, bant eldrazi,gw value town, affinity, gw value town and lost to UR storm in the finals
Going forward I played a weekly modern tournament with 28 players going 4-1 (losing to valakut) and 5th with a comparable build but
+1 forge tender
+1 selfless spirit
-1 stony silence
-1 mindcensor
Yesterday, I played another modern tournament where I finished 3-2 losing to valakut and burn my sideboard was:
2 unified will
2 mirran crusader
3 rest in peace
3 stony silence
1 reclamation sage
2 burreton forge tender
2 eidolon of the rhetoric
I need your advice how to change my sb to be better against burn and valakut. I am also consider switching to a version with 4 unclaimed territory. I however dislike displacer and witness because I believe that the deck has to be all speed in the preboard games.
--> In my opinion this matchup is a race in which it can be very important to tap their creatures and prevent them from blocking (that is why I like Thalia 2.0 or Abzan Falconer). Especially turns 4-5. I just think with your build you have a ton of dead cards against them 3 sin collector, 3 freebooter, 2 meddling mage and they just run over you. A mana dork into 3drop into two 2-drops makes the race much easier compared to a steady curve 1,2,3.
The GDS matchup is almost an auto-win. I have played the matchup like 20 times now and never lost.
I agree that Meddling Mage can be good. But even if you know the meta (which I do), it is almost useless if you have to play it before you play a freebooter or a sin collector and even then they have a turn to response and play the card. For example, what do you name blind against Valakut decks? Sure there are decks like Ad nauseam where MM is great ..but to be honest..who is still playing AD nauseam? I rather have stronger creatures compared to certain matchups that I don't face very often.
I am not sure abouth Thalia 2.0 either but I think it is one of the best options without being too risky with the mana. Abzan Falconer was always great for me and won me a lot of games against creature decks (actually no one ever removed it), because these decks are often short on removal. I took it out after your removal argument, but I might take it back in. I just think it is less impressive compared to Thalia 2.0
4 Champion of the Parish
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Meddling Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Sin Collector
4 Reflector Mage
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
Spells (8)
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Gavony Township
2 Vithian Renegades
2 Rest in Peace
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kitesail Freebooter
Game 1: Counters Company 2-0
Game 2: Merfolk 2-1 (that was extremely difficult and I believe that this build is unfavored in this matchup. This is why I think some changes have to be done.
Game 3: Grixis Death Shadow 2-0
Game 4: Bant Knightfall 2-0
Game 5: Lantern Control 2-0 (Freebooter into Meddling Mage was insane here in Game 1, because he had 3 Bridges in hand).
Summary: While the hand-disruption package was acceptable to good, I think the Meddling Mages are not good enough for the main. While they were winning me Game 1 against Lantern, I didn't have any useful application for them in the other matchups. It is extremely difficult to hit something in the dark. In addition, I think that 6 manadorks is not enough. The deck lives from explosives starts and even the disruptive package wants to be accelerated in. Anafenza turned out to be really good. However, I want to have 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar to improve certain creature matchups.
I would propose the following maindeck changes:
-2 Meddling Mage
-1 Anafenza ( I prefer a 2/2 legendary creature ratio over 3 Anafenza)
+1 Avacyn's Pilgrim (improves speed)
+2 Thalia V2.0 (improves creature and some greedy manabases matchups)
Also the sideboard needs some adaption against creature decks. The question is if I want Meddling Mage in the side or more specific hate.
I will give your configuration a try. However, I think we don't need the red in the sideboard (including the land). Since your maindeck is very disruptive already I think the focus of your sideboard should go a little bit more towards the very small aggressive creature decks. Therefore, I think you should play 2 Orzhov Pontiff and cutting the Izzet staticaster and the land. Even though no human, I would prefer Reclamation Sage over Vithian Renegades but if you want them I think you can still keep them without adding the additional stomping ground in the side. I personally also prefer Stony Silence instead of Kathaki because it is acceptable to good in the Eldrazi tron matchup.
What do you think about playing Mantis Rider instead of Anafenza or a one of Abzan Falconer?
I am missing old Thalia in your deck.is it not worth it? How is your storm matchup without her. Do you think she could be played instead of anafenza or does that result in too many 2 drops?
I personally play 2 townships and they won a lot of games
I tested Mantis Rider and I really liked it. However, I agree that you lose the disruption because I was replacing 2 new Thalias and 2 Sin Collector for Mantis Riders so we might lose some percentage against Valakut and Storm if playing Mantis Rider. However, a Titanshift player told me that Mantis Rider is pretty good and hard to predict.
What is your opinion about freebooter compared to Sin Collector? When I finished 2nd at that SCG IQ, Sin collector was the worst card, but I guess it was just based on the matchups I faced.
Today I playtested a list with -3 new thalia, -1 abzan falconer for +4 Mantis Rider. I added 4 Unclaimed Territory to the deck and it felt really strong. Any opinions?
BTW: If you have a champion and a mana dork in hand, what do you usually play first? I usually start with the dork.
Thanks for the advice. I had the feeling that I can cut one rip too.
I run 3 Thalia (old and new) main. Playing the territories. .would you run virithian renegades over rec sage?
Which cards are in your opinion best sb cards against burn and valakut? (Kambal, unified will. Auriok champion. Aven mindcensor. Meddling mage )?
Another question: Did any one ever try Hanweir Garrison? It seems that the tokens trigger champion and lieutenant.
I need your advice since you are more experienced with the deck.
I picked that deck up and without ever playing it before finished 2nd at an SCG IQ with 80 players, playing this version:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=116202
I lost to mono red dragon stompy, won against eggs, esper death shadow, eldrazi tron, bant eldrazi,gw value town, affinity, gw value town and lost to UR storm in the finals
Going forward I played a weekly modern tournament with 28 players going 4-1 (losing to valakut) and 5th with a comparable build but
+1 forge tender
+1 selfless spirit
-1 stony silence
-1 mindcensor
Yesterday, I played another modern tournament where I finished 3-2 losing to valakut and burn my sideboard was:
2 unified will
2 mirran crusader
3 rest in peace
3 stony silence
1 reclamation sage
2 burreton forge tender
2 eidolon of the rhetoric
I need your advice how to change my sb to be better against burn and valakut. I am also consider switching to a version with 4 unclaimed territory. I however dislike displacer and witness because I believe that the deck has to be all speed in the preboard games.
Lots of fun. Will post a small report soon.