Merfolk exists it is just being underestimated.
People thought that cawblade wasn't going to be a deck anymore and the deck won tournaments immediately after the bannings.
I really think zoo is going to be hated out of the format by everyone. Which is why I'm not expecting it that much. I do concede that I may just being thinking too far ahead though.
look at history. When fae decks were not a player in 1.x merfolk decks did nothing. Faeries are all but dead thus merfolk is all but dead. Remember this isn't OE, or legacy. ZOO is almost impossible to hate out of a format, you think its dead then it changes to deal with the best deck in the format.
here is my list for 5cc(which is actaully only 4cc lol) I'll put it on the OP. The sideboard is random and untested.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
My point isn't to insult you personally it is to show you that you can't just have a bunch of firespouts or slagstorms in your deck and hope.
There has to be a mix of board wipers and 1 for 1 kill spells otherwise they will just spell pierce all the board wipes and win on turn 4/5 as planned.
no one is running islands right now. view my above post merfolk didn't exist in this format before the bannings what makes you think they will after.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
My name is spell pierce and I will guarantee that you lose the merfolk match up, but if you insist just play firespout because of the flexibility. It matters because if you play the clique or plumeveil or things like that you can avoid making them killable.
Punishing Fire is the reason I don't care about aither vial merfolk.
I only play 1 Cruel Ultimatum out of personal preference, I will admit that the standard is 2.
If you want to go straight grixis I just finished making that, but I don't think you need the hand disruption you guys are jamming into your decks when the format is going to be based a lot on board presence.
Merfolk loses to zoo and jund both. It is only good against faeries which is now dead. this isn't legacy man. Also that deck was built to be faeries which is by far the best deck in 1.x during this time and now. If you look toward 1.x for deck ideas look at the MRD_8th_ZEN season. it closely resemble this format other than the ban list and newer sets after zen.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Firespout is not better because we can't hit fliers with it. So we can't get rid of Fae, Spirits, or stuff like that.
Could be a non-issue, but it's not one I'm willing to risk for one red mana symbol. I doubt Vendilion Clique will drop in popularity.
that was aimed at the 5cc version of the deck. In grixis version slagstorm is better. Vendilion clique is blue which is the difference. UU is easy earlier on than RR expecially in the 5cc version.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
This is a format where the premier aggro deck centers on guys that have 3 toughness (Nacatl, Kird Ape, Loam Lion, Steppe Lynx) and runs no counterspells. I would run Slagstorm over Pyro/Fallout any day of the week.
pyro had its uses against the no longer as good elves. Firespout is better than slagstorm though because of the mana requirement. Any spell that you can trim colored mana off of by replacing it will a card that is close is very good for this deck.
also added a template mana base to the OP. I need to add a grixis one, but that is a lot easier than the 5cc mana base.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
What would you suggest as extra control cards? I've considered a singleton Teferi in the mainboard. Mulldrifter over Jace definitely seems reasonable, too. Also, what would you suggest over Slagstorm? Just straight Wrath?
My permission package feels a little lacking with only Cryptic, I'm considering Leaks or Snares (or maybe Inquisition or Thoughtseize) to round out the early game, though Bolt, Path, and Repeal takes care of that nicely.
I would run wrath,damnation,maybe firespout. maybe like 2 damnation, 2 firespout split. maybe 2 damantions, 1 firespout. I need to do a bit of testing against zoo before I can be sure of the mass removal package.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I'm not going to lie to you guys here. I love cruel control, but you guys are making it look like absolute trash.
3 Cruel Ultimatum Really guys? Not to mention you guys are putting it next to tec edge like there is synergy there. Come on people atleast think some things through.
Anyway. And blightning? Are you guys even trying to build it to beat the meta?
Anyway. My current cruel control list is also shaking in the mana base department, but that is why we are here to put our heads together
Notes to be taken.
Decision between wurmcoil and grave titan depends on how fast everyone actually is. I'm also thinking about wall of reverence.
May go down to 2 teachings.
The sideboard isn't finished because I don't know exactly what the meta will be. I may want to move a board sweeper to the maindeck, but it is so tight on space right now.
Also what are good sideboard cards/hard counters in this format that I don't know of?
Teachings does not a 5cc deck make. Punishing fire isn't really useful because most creatures are just too big for it. Also you have to run at least 2 ultimatums other wise you won't see the damn thing. I think you might have found the wrong thread dude.
Still working on a sideboard, but I like the mainboard feels really flexible and able to answer a lot of things. Thoughts?
Close; slagstorm is not really great in the main deck. mulldrifter is probably better than jace because we cannot really protect him. so He will be draw one and fog a creature. Bolas and ajani vengeant really aren't worth it in this format either. Those should be replaced with more control cards. also city of brass hurts way to much to run.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I see your point. Two different schools of thought, both could be equally effective for control when the deck is built properly. My line of thinking is probably a little more archaic nowdays I like playing a couple more threats, like the old mono black control decks that would run about 10 creatures and the rest as draw, disruption, and sweepers.
honestly its just the style of decks. Decks like this one are based off of the first real control deck Called "THE DECK" which was first pioneered by weisman. His deck only run 2 serra angel as win cons....how times have changed lol.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Do you guy's think Chandra the firebrand would any good in here? It seems like it might be good as a two of since copying a cruel ultimatum or even terminate would be devestating.
Its definitely cute, but i don't think she makes the cut because of the inability to really defend herself. If I was going to run any walker liliana seems lke a good way to find cruel ultimatum.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Right on, I guess I'm not familiar with that list.
excellent point, and noted!
I have a couple dudes in my list above. Lots of great options not listed too. The important thing to keep in mind is have dudes that don't just attack, but have a ETB or LTB or an activating ability that can create card advantage somehow. Major threats are the only ones worth playing in control!
could go on with a huge list for good control creatures from 8 years worth of cards
Not really necessary. You run plenty of card draw and only drop your threats after your opponent has discarded all removal. something like wurmcoil engine or baneslayer angel is fine.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Thomas Jefferson
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look at history. When fae decks were not a player in 1.x merfolk decks did nothing. Faeries are all but dead thus merfolk is all but dead. Remember this isn't OE, or legacy. ZOO is almost impossible to hate out of a format, you think its dead then it changes to deal with the best deck in the format.
here is my list for 5cc(which is actaully only 4cc lol) I'll put it on the OP. The sideboard is random and untested.
2 wurmcoil engine
2 mulldrifter
2 vendilion clique
[28 other spells]
4 preordain
4 Lightning bolt
4 path to exile
4 rune snag
4 esper charm
3 cruel ultimatum
2 cryptic command
2 damnation
1 firespout
4 Vivid Creek
4 Vivid Marsh
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Vivid Crag
2 Sunken Ruins
2 cascade bluffs
1 scalding tarn
1 marsh flats
1 godless shrine
1 hallowed fountain
2 Island
1 mountain
1 swamp
3 sadistic sacrament
3 rain of tears
2 flash freeze
2 spell pierce
1 damnation
1 deathmark
1 grave titan
1 negate
1 firespout
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
no one is running islands right now. view my above post merfolk didn't exist in this format before the bannings what makes you think they will after.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Merfolk loses to zoo and jund both. It is only good against faeries which is now dead. this isn't legacy man. Also that deck was built to be faeries which is by far the best deck in 1.x during this time and now. If you look toward 1.x for deck ideas look at the MRD_8th_ZEN season. it closely resemble this format other than the ban list and newer sets after zen.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
that was aimed at the 5cc version of the deck. In grixis version slagstorm is better. Vendilion clique is blue which is the difference. UU is easy earlier on than RR expecially in the 5cc version.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
pyro had its uses against the no longer as good elves. Firespout is better than slagstorm though because of the mana requirement. Any spell that you can trim colored mana off of by replacing it will a card that is close is very good for this deck.
also added a template mana base to the OP. I need to add a grixis one, but that is a lot easier than the 5cc mana base.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I would run wrath,damnation,maybe firespout. maybe like 2 damnation, 2 firespout split. maybe 2 damantions, 1 firespout. I need to do a bit of testing against zoo before I can be sure of the mass removal package.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Teachings does not a 5cc deck make. Punishing fire isn't really useful because most creatures are just too big for it. Also you have to run at least 2 ultimatums other wise you won't see the damn thing. I think you might have found the wrong thread dude.
Close; slagstorm is not really great in the main deck. mulldrifter is probably better than jace because we cannot really protect him. so He will be draw one and fog a creature. Bolas and ajani vengeant really aren't worth it in this format either. Those should be replaced with more control cards. also city of brass hurts way to much to run.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
honestly its just the style of decks. Decks like this one are based off of the first real control deck Called "THE DECK" which was first pioneered by weisman. His deck only run 2 serra angel as win cons....how times have changed lol.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Its definitely cute, but i don't think she makes the cut because of the inability to really defend herself. If I was going to run any walker liliana seems lke a good way to find cruel ultimatum.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Not really necessary. You run plenty of card draw and only drop your threats after your opponent has discarded all removal. something like wurmcoil engine or baneslayer angel is fine.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
2 is fine as long as you always cast your cruel ultimatums first.
Here is an old chapin list from mrd up 1.x.
3 Mulldrifter
Sorcery [6]
3 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Damnation
Instant [14]
2 Countersquall
3 Cryptic Command
1 Flashfreeze
2 Repeal
3 Smother
3 Thirst for Knowledge
Artifact [7]
3 Chrome Mox(banned in modern)
4 Dimir Signet
Enchantment [2]
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Graven Cairns
2 Island
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 River of Tears
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
4 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor(banned in modern)
1 Countersquall
2 Cranial Extraction
1 Cryptic Command
1 Damnation
2 Deathmark
3 Flashfreeze
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Thoughtseize
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson