Any thoughts on Chandra, Flamecaller? I run her in my maindeck and she really does everything I want.
I tested both chandras and I personally have preferred the 4 mana one instead. 6 mana is a little tough at times and the 4 mana one allows you to ramp. You could always do a split but they do kind of compete with each other.
I've finally move the Spheres to the main and have been happy with that decision. I've also added 2 molten rains to keep the consistency of a t2 land destruction spell and been happy with that too.
The main issue is the number of threats the deck can realistically have with all the busting lands spells. I feel like the following creature package main is the best combination i've had so far:
I play 2 Chandra (torch of defiance) as another hard to deal with threat that's not a creature. The rest is a mix of Thragtusks/Chameleon Colossus/Thrun. I've cut Finks entirely because there's not really any matchup where i actively want the card (yes, that includes burn as i feel like the matchup is already decent).
I've been trying Tracker but it just clogs up the 3 drop slot. I like Courser for a while but it's just too weak. It doesn't affect the board enough and you can't really put enough pressure on an opponent with it.
I like the GDD but...you need to have more <3 spells in the deck and i'm not really sure that's the direction the deck wants to go. Not making use of the graveyard is a plus in my opinion.
As for Hazoret and the KWR...both are hot garbage in my opinion. Especially the latter. The deck is color hungry (double red/double green) and having any colorless land can hurt you too much.
I played a PPTQ two weeks ago and finished 4-2. My losses came to ETron (!!) and Fish. I beat: Death Shadow, ETron, Spirits, PillowFort.
Pillowfort was the deck that made me want to have enchantment hate main going forward. Chameleon Colossus was lights out vs DS.
I already made the shift to 22 lands and would definitely not play the mines. Reason being is that even the small risk of this being your only land in your opener is horrendous enough to make it not worth running. Every card matters in our opener. If your hand is filled with 4-5 drops and you have a caverns, would you still keep that hand? Of course not. This is definitely not a card for this deck.
I'm considering moving Trinisphere to the main. THat card does an unreal amount of work. I find myself siding it in pretty often (Tron being the exception). I've even brought it in versus Titan shift as it prevents them from ramping out early. Keeping them off mountains after that is key to prevent them from casting a chandra.
I honestly can't get on board with running Kessig Wolf Run. You'll basically never get to use it since in 90% of the matchups, you want blood moon T2. I can't say it's a card I ever felt "Geez, if only I had KWR right now!".
Why are lists still running it? I'd much rather have a forest. There's an awful lot of RR in your list. Spreading seas wrecks you pretty hard if your opponent knows what they are doing. Wouldn't the KWR be better off as a mountain?
Personally I didn't think Hazoret was good enough. 5/4 for 4 is not great stats. Path easily takes it out (and it's played in basically every deck that isn't GDS so don't know why you'd think there are less). In my experience, it just doesn't impact the board enough to warrant a slot.
cdbowlin: There are two things that are problematic for the deck: Enchantments and burn. Burn can be beat pretty easily with resolving a Trinishipere on T2. You can then just get a head of them and overpower them.
Enchantments are another issue and that's why the SB needs to change a bit to be able to adapt to that. Run Destructive Revelry instead of Grudges.
they'll just beat you with tasigur/gurmag. not really worth it. I've been testing the list online with some success. tracker is very good. I'm unsure about the coursers but they certainly do some work.
I echo the multiple wastes at E-Tron. This is the reason i had lost that first match. He drew the waste and was then able to cast multiple smashers (although one more LD would have sealed the match).
Destructive revelry is definitely smart. I didn`t play any artifact destruction main as it was a concession to affinity. I figured that with the moons and the angers, it would be sufficient to stall long enough to lock the match (but haven`t faced affinity yet, so can`t confirm). Both your suggestions are cards i thought of and i`m leaning towards the Primeval light for sure. Solemnity/unlife locks us out of the game without an answer (combined with greater auramancy too).
GDS is present in my meta but is not dominant. There are a lot of various Tron lists mixed with Scapeshift. They seem to walk all over GDS though. With the emergence of leyline of sanctity decks though, enchantment removal is becoming a must.
I have finks in the board but have not actually ever played them (even against burn since trinisphere seem to be enough to lock them out). They can definitely be replaced with revelrys.
I've been wanting to contribute to this thread for a while and now finally got around to it.
On Trinisphere: I play 3 in the board. The card definitely comes in vs burn as they ideally want to see the least amount of lands possible. Blowing up one or two of their lands will usually lead to an easy victory. There is no single spell in their deck they can cast for less than 3 mana. And and 3 mana bolt is way worse than 1 mana.
On birds of paradise: I've now cut birds entirely. It was by far and away the worst card in the deck. At least arbor elf can attack (and will generally generate way more mana). Having 8 accelerants seems sufficient in my experience.
In the PPTQ last weekend I went 4-2 losing to E-Tron (!??! G3 he mulled to 4 - me to 5 - and won through both a T2 stone rain and a T3 blood moon by casting THREE smashers and...all is dust. Ya he got there. Somehow) and Fish. Fish being the matchup that felt fairly unwinnable. Opponent played 4 gut shot side board. Wrecked my early game big time. I also played against Mono White pillow fort, and this seems to be gaining popularity (it is quite good against a number of opponents but quite bad vs Tron). Having zero ways to permanently deal with things like Runed Halo etc was a big issue.
On Hazoret: I hated the card all day long. Sideboarded it out every time. It's just too slow and dies too easily. Not worth the slot.
The deck is particularly well placed in my opinion and should be able to continue performing well.
The deck's biggest issue if you don't close out quickly is card advantage. Tracker/Courser/Thragtusk/Garruk/Chandra all provide that. Staying low to the ground (3-5 mana) gives the deck explosive turns that are essentially haymakers as soon as T2. Not many decks can deal with both Blood Moon AND getting their lands blown up.
One issue I've come across though is Spreading Seas. This card will hit your forest with utopia sprawls or your red sources. Which will greatly diminish your ability to deploy your threats in a timely fashion. Currently, the deck contains no way of dealing with enchantments, which I am starting to think is a mistake. Beast within is an answer, but I think the cost is too high. The sideboard is already stretched pretty thin so I don't really know how to solve this problem yet.
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I tested both chandras and I personally have preferred the 4 mana one instead. 6 mana is a little tough at times and the 4 mana one allows you to ramp. You could always do a split but they do kind of compete with each other.
The main issue is the number of threats the deck can realistically have with all the busting lands spells. I feel like the following creature package main is the best combination i've had so far:
2 Inferno Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
I play 2 Chandra (torch of defiance) as another hard to deal with threat that's not a creature. The rest is a mix of Thragtusks/Chameleon Colossus/Thrun. I've cut Finks entirely because there's not really any matchup where i actively want the card (yes, that includes burn as i feel like the matchup is already decent).
I've been trying Tracker but it just clogs up the 3 drop slot. I like Courser for a while but it's just too weak. It doesn't affect the board enough and you can't really put enough pressure on an opponent with it.
I like the GDD but...you need to have more <3 spells in the deck and i'm not really sure that's the direction the deck wants to go. Not making use of the graveyard is a plus in my opinion.
As for Hazoret and the KWR...both are hot garbage in my opinion. Especially the latter. The deck is color hungry (double red/double green) and having any colorless land can hurt you too much.
I played a PPTQ two weeks ago and finished 4-2. My losses came to ETron (!!) and Fish. I beat: Death Shadow, ETron, Spirits, PillowFort.
Pillowfort was the deck that made me want to have enchantment hate main going forward. Chameleon Colossus was lights out vs DS.
I'm considering moving Trinisphere to the main. THat card does an unreal amount of work. I find myself siding it in pretty often (Tron being the exception). I've even brought it in versus Titan shift as it prevents them from ramping out early. Keeping them off mountains after that is key to prevent them from casting a chandra.
Why are lists still running it? I'd much rather have a forest. There's an awful lot of RR in your list. Spreading seas wrecks you pretty hard if your opponent knows what they are doing. Wouldn't the KWR be better off as a mountain?
Personally I didn't think Hazoret was good enough. 5/4 for 4 is not great stats. Path easily takes it out (and it's played in basically every deck that isn't GDS so don't know why you'd think there are less). In my experience, it just doesn't impact the board enough to warrant a slot.
cdbowlin: There are two things that are problematic for the deck: Enchantments and burn. Burn can be beat pretty easily with resolving a Trinishipere on T2. You can then just get a head of them and overpower them.
Enchantments are another issue and that's why the SB needs to change a bit to be able to adapt to that. Run Destructive Revelry instead of Grudges.
Destructive revelry is definitely smart. I didn`t play any artifact destruction main as it was a concession to affinity. I figured that with the moons and the angers, it would be sufficient to stall long enough to lock the match (but haven`t faced affinity yet, so can`t confirm). Both your suggestions are cards i thought of and i`m leaning towards the Primeval light for sure. Solemnity/unlife locks us out of the game without an answer (combined with greater auramancy too).
GDS is present in my meta but is not dominant. There are a lot of various Tron lists mixed with Scapeshift. They seem to walk all over GDS though. With the emergence of leyline of sanctity decks though, enchantment removal is becoming a must.
I have finks in the board but have not actually ever played them (even against burn since trinisphere seem to be enough to lock them out). They can definitely be replaced with revelrys.
On Trinisphere: I play 3 in the board. The card definitely comes in vs burn as they ideally want to see the least amount of lands possible. Blowing up one or two of their lands will usually lead to an easy victory. There is no single spell in their deck they can cast for less than 3 mana. And and 3 mana bolt is way worse than 1 mana.
On birds of paradise: I've now cut birds entirely. It was by far and away the worst card in the deck. At least arbor elf can attack (and will generally generate way more mana). Having 8 accelerants seems sufficient in my experience.
In the PPTQ last weekend I went 4-2 losing to E-Tron (!??! G3 he mulled to 4 - me to 5 - and won through both a T2 stone rain and a T3 blood moon by casting THREE smashers and...all is dust. Ya he got there. Somehow) and Fish. Fish being the matchup that felt fairly unwinnable. Opponent played 4 gut shot side board. Wrecked my early game big time. I also played against Mono White pillow fort, and this seems to be gaining popularity (it is quite good against a number of opponents but quite bad vs Tron). Having zero ways to permanently deal with things like Runed Halo etc was a big issue.
On Hazoret: I hated the card all day long. Sideboarded it out every time. It's just too slow and dies too easily. Not worth the slot.
The deck is particularly well placed in my opinion and should be able to continue performing well.
My current list runs the following:
4 x Mwuonvoli Acid-Moss
2 x Bonfire of the damned
2 x Stormbreath Dragon
2 x Inferno Titan
1 x Wurmcoil Engine
2 x Primal Command
4 x Arbor elf
4 x Utopia Sprawl
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Courser of Kruphix
4 x Blood Moon
2 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 x Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 x Thragtusk
The deck's biggest issue if you don't close out quickly is card advantage. Tracker/Courser/Thragtusk/Garruk/Chandra all provide that. Staying low to the ground (3-5 mana) gives the deck explosive turns that are essentially haymakers as soon as T2. Not many decks can deal with both Blood Moon AND getting their lands blown up.
One issue I've come across though is Spreading Seas. This card will hit your forest with utopia sprawls or your red sources. Which will greatly diminish your ability to deploy your threats in a timely fashion. Currently, the deck contains no way of dealing with enchantments, which I am starting to think is a mistake. Beast within is an answer, but I think the cost is too high. The sideboard is already stretched pretty thin so I don't really know how to solve this problem yet.