What do people think of using 2 or 3 spreading seas in the side instead of fulminators and/or molten rains against Tron/Eldrazi/Valakut and possily BGx decks? Way easier to cast and replaces itself. I've had great success with it - loved it in Merfolk, love it now.
I'd say try them out, not like this deck can get to 5 mana quick enough to snap + rain reliably. And by that time the land disruption might be too late. Playing Fulminators felt really slow and often didn't do enough when I brought them in.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
My opp was slow with his choices and that is the reason we went to time in the 3rd match. First game we were both really low in life and he just happened to have Bolt, Snap, Bolt to finish me off. Game 2 he flooded while I drew all the good stuff and killed his shadow and angler and killed him with my double shadow. Game 3 was slow and we flooded except he drew Liliana quite late but neither of us had threats to finish each other off.
Round 2 vs Biovisionary Combo: 1-0-1
Not much to say about this one other than I had counters and kill spells for the visionary and mirrorweave. Easy match.
Round 3 vs WB Tokens: 1-1-1
Tokens doing what they do best, casting spirits and virtues and flying in for lots of damage to kill me because I was killing myself for big shadows. He had Auriok Champions to block all day long. I did fetch incorrectly and was unable to cast Anger to wipe his tokens but that did not solve the Champion issue. I needed more threats to punch through his defense.
Round 4 vs 8 Rack: 1-2-1
Thoughtseized his bridge and rack and killed him with snap beats while he drew nothing to deal with them. Game 2 he landed bridge and some racks and I was dead after that. Game 3 went about the same as 2 except I forgot to not fetch because I left EE on top to deal with a rack and affliction. He had a bridge but I had a few answers left in deck to destroy a bridge and attack for lethal.
Round 5 vs Scrap Trawlololololer Combo: 1-3-1
Thoughtseize and discard did close to nothing good unless it hit KCI. He combo'd the turn before I was going to kill him with shadows. Game 2 I killed myself a lot but managed to thoughtseize and surgical away his KCI's. I failed to draw threats and he was able to kill me with Trawler and Ballista.
Conclusion: It really sucks killing yourself and failing to find shadows to cast in this deck. I really don't like that aspect which is why the Jund version is so consistent and works well with the shadow synergy. I might take a Delver version for a spin instead. It seems like it would be a good idea to have another threat which doesn't require you kill yourself for nothing. Also to note my sideboard is missing some recommended cards but I don't have them so I had to slot other things. I would definitely try to up the count of other cards instead of spreading it out with a lot of 1 of's.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I've heard talk of doing the unthinkable and replacing Lightning Bolt with 3 ofRise // Fall,
I've been testing it out and it's been pretty solid. Snap Bolt Snap is still a great play and I'd like a single bolt somewhere in the main but having 3 more ways to get back Shadows along with other creatures, unsummoning a blocker feels great. Also, using hymn mode after a TS or IoK feels amazing. With this I no longer feel the need for the white splash,
That was my initial thought as well. This deck looks at their hand so much you would think that Fall would favor you greatly and it is worth testing out for sure. The huge downside you will run into however is "nonland" making it feel weak if you don't get two cards for two mana. The Rise portion at times will also be problematic because it requires two targets. You may want to bounce their dork early but you don't have a creature in the yard... Like someone else mentioned earlier the card is cute. I am still running it as a one of still so it will need more testing. I implore you to try it out and report your findings.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
@westcoasthorus Thoughts on Rise // Fall? I do no own any Lily, Last Hopes. Also your findings are very helpful.
Rise//Fall felt just cute to us. My teammate experimented with it more than I did; I went to the Michael Majors 3 Bolt main (now 2 Bolt/1 Terminate) pretty quickly and never looked back. Like I said earlier, my philosophy with Shadow decks is I really really want to lean in on the efficiency of the cards in my deck. I want to force my opponent on the back foot as much as possible, and Rise//Fall is just a way to get more card advantage, which is not what I think the deck actually wants to be doing. Even though it can! Just like Abzan Company decks can also grind, but my philosophy with Company is that it's primarily a combo deck and you should be working towards the combo, not trying to eke out incremental advantage with things like Voice of Resurgence.
And second @bloodyrabbit_01 on Liliana, the Last Hope. She is the Liliana that Grixis Shadow decks want and she is totally worth the investment. If you don't have her in a mirror match you are significantly behind, and as Rabbit also pointed out, Liliana helping clear spirits matters a lot because they can slow us down a ton (I lost in the quarters of a GPT this weekend to an Abzan Souls deck - Spectral Procession and Lingering Souls and Nissa voice of Zendikar and Sorin is really, really annoying, let me tell you).
Alternatives I was considering for the time being are Electrickery and/or Izzet Staticaster. Yeah, I can see where she helps creature combat too. Your opp wants to trade and you -2/-1 their guy and now blocks look horrible for them.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Spreading Sea's is quicker even though it's an enchantment. I too consider Fulminator/Stone Rain/Molten Rain to be too slow. I'm not sure how you attack them. Just play more Terminate and kill spells?
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Experimenting with this deck, not sure how good Rise // Fall will work out. I'm running them in place of Liliana, The Last Hope. KCommand might be better being instant and with other modes.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
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I'd say try them out, not like this deck can get to 5 mana quick enough to snap + rain reliably. And by that time the land disruption might be too late. Playing Fulminators felt really slow and often didn't do enough when I brought them in.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Decklist
Round 1 vs Grixis Shadow: Draw 0-0-1
My opp was slow with his choices and that is the reason we went to time in the 3rd match. First game we were both really low in life and he just happened to have Bolt, Snap, Bolt to finish me off. Game 2 he flooded while I drew all the good stuff and killed his shadow and angler and killed him with my double shadow. Game 3 was slow and we flooded except he drew Liliana quite late but neither of us had threats to finish each other off.
Round 2 vs Biovisionary Combo: 1-0-1
Not much to say about this one other than I had counters and kill spells for the visionary and mirrorweave. Easy match.
Round 3 vs WB Tokens: 1-1-1
Tokens doing what they do best, casting spirits and virtues and flying in for lots of damage to kill me because I was killing myself for big shadows. He had Auriok Champions to block all day long. I did fetch incorrectly and was unable to cast Anger to wipe his tokens but that did not solve the Champion issue. I needed more threats to punch through his defense.
Round 4 vs 8 Rack: 1-2-1
Thoughtseized his bridge and rack and killed him with snap beats while he drew nothing to deal with them. Game 2 he landed bridge and some racks and I was dead after that. Game 3 went about the same as 2 except I forgot to not fetch because I left EE on top to deal with a rack and affliction. He had a bridge but I had a few answers left in deck to destroy a bridge and attack for lethal.
Round 5 vs Scrap Trawlololololer Combo: 1-3-1
Thoughtseize and discard did close to nothing good unless it hit KCI. He combo'd the turn before I was going to kill him with shadows. Game 2 I killed myself a lot but managed to thoughtseize and surgical away his KCI's. I failed to draw threats and he was able to kill me with Trawler and Ballista.
Conclusion: It really sucks killing yourself and failing to find shadows to cast in this deck. I really don't like that aspect which is why the Jund version is so consistent and works well with the shadow synergy. I might take a Delver version for a spin instead. It seems like it would be a good idea to have another threat which doesn't require you kill yourself for nothing. Also to note my sideboard is missing some recommended cards but I don't have them so I had to slot other things. I would definitely try to up the count of other cards instead of spreading it out with a lot of 1 of's.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
That was my initial thought as well. This deck looks at their hand so much you would think that Fall would favor you greatly and it is worth testing out for sure. The huge downside you will run into however is "nonland" making it feel weak if you don't get two cards for two mana. The Rise portion at times will also be problematic because it requires two targets. You may want to bounce their dork early but you don't have a creature in the yard... Like someone else mentioned earlier the card is cute. I am still running it as a one of still so it will need more testing. I implore you to try it out and report your findings.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Alternatives I was considering for the time being are Electrickery and/or Izzet Staticaster. Yeah, I can see where she helps creature combat too. Your opp wants to trade and you -2/-1 their guy and now blocks look horrible for them.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I like your deck list and choice of cards.
Question: How would you sideboard vs Bant Eldrazi?
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Flooded Strand
1x Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Sorcery (11)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Rise // Fall
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
3x Fatal Push
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Temur Battle Rage
1x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
Creature (16)
4x Death's Shadow
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Street Wraith
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Countersquall
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Rise // Fall
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Terminate
1x Threads of Disloyalty
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun