JV, how are you making MM fit? Slots are so tight, and fitting in 4 more (is it a 1cc or 0cc for CB?) non 2-cc spells while keeping a CB curve sounds tough.
Torpor Orb is terrible. 9/10 times Trinket Mage+Tools and Trickbind will be better than a ☺☺☺☺ty artifact that lets you Cheat a Dreadnought into play. With the exception of maybe Goblins, it makes no matchups better (and even here the point about Trinket Mage and Trickbind may indeed be valid)
Torpor Orb weakens counterbalance as it discourages you from running 3cc cards maindeck.
On a note that actually is relevent to making the deck better, Mental Misstep is the stone cold balls in Dreadstill, it makes the best card in the deck; Standstill better than it has ever been before. If you are not playing 4 you are doing it wrong.
Okay I haven't been on Salvation in quite a long time but I'll post the list I am currently Playing, When I have some more time I will read over the last 15 or so pages of the thread and answer any questions that have been raised and left unanswered. Any questions on my list I will also be glad to answer.
Yeah, the matchup is all about CB/T although your not going to hit all their creatures, you can counter all their removal and just get there... post side Sower of Temptation really shines if you run it. Your boarding strategy should involve going down to 1 Dreadnought, as it makes your opponents 1000x Dreadnought kill cards that are coming in basically dead but still give you the option of Trinket Maging for him when you have the game locked up and it's time to end it. Also it is not necessarily bad to bring in Firespout since it deals with creatures like Bob and more importantly ups your 3cc count for CB (obviously Grip should be coming in too.)
Also, in other news Ur Dreadstill came in 6th at the SCG's Charlotte 5k today after coming in 3rd at the end of swiss (5-0-2) and then losing to the 6th seed UGB Counterbalance in top 8.
Also, on a side-note, here is an interesting side-boarding strategy I have been testing out against Merfolk when on the Play.
-4 Force of Will
-3 Standstill
-3 Spell Snare
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Firespout
My Logic behind this is that with the exception of Turn 1 Vial there are literally zero cards in Merfolk that require a FOW and the Merfolk match-up is very tempo oriented so the 2 for 1ing of FOW is actually relevant, also you are bringing in so many non blue cards while taking out blue cards that you greatly weaken FOW's blue count.
On the Draw it's:
-3 Standstill
-3 Spell Snare
-2 Daze
-1 Counterbalance
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 REB
+3 Firespout
In addition to what Cecilia said, Affinity is also very susceptible to Counter-top, Spell Snare, and Stifle, as all of their relevent spells cost 1 or 2 (with the exception of Master E)
The deck that got 3rd at the recent legacy 5K ran bolts main instead of spell snare, so its certainly viable. (I love spell snare though). I really like that putting a couple bolts main frees up sideboard space, since there is a ton of stuff I want to fit in there.
You have obviously never heard of the "Rich Shay Factor" It is a phenomenon in which Rich tests something excessively and then goes with the card choice that worked less in testing and then top 4/8's (wins... etc... etc) anyways. Bolt (or Fire/Ice) main is not bad at all, just Dreadstill's G1 is so good against most of the field that they really aren't necessary, The only slots that I could actually see being cut are: Counterbalance #4 and E.E. #2, but like I previously stated I don't think you improve enough important matchups by adding it in comparison to the matchups you weaken by cutting the CB.
Needle is never really awful, I just never was in a situation were I was like "YES! Pithing Needle" As for the mainboard I'm not sure that Lightning Bolt is better than the CB/T you would cut for it in any matches except Dragon Stompy (Which is a bye anyways) and Merfolk.
On a side note I played Ugr Dreadstill and went 5-2
Round 1: Merfolk, Loss:1-2 (He may have top 8'd he was 5-1 going into the last round)
Round 2: Merfolk, Won 2-0
Round 3: Mono Green Stompy, Won 2-0
Round 4: [Brassman] NLBrass, Lost 0-2 (despite being an 0-2 loss both games were insanely close, some of the funnest magic I've ever played!)
Round 5: Reanimator, Won 2-0
Round 6: [Slay] Zoo, Won 2-0
Round 7: Mirrorish, Won 2-1
Noncreature Spells:30
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Snare
3 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Daze
1 Trickbind
Sideboard:15
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pithing Needle
Post Tournament Conclusions:
The Main deck is damn near optimal, The only change that I keep going back an forth between is cutting a Factory for a 3rd Flooded Strand, or Leaving the 4th Factory in, I'm not entirely sure yet.
As for the sideboard, Lightning Bolt was UN****INGBELIEVABLE! It was excellent against Zoo and Merfolk.
Pithing Needle on the other hand was extremely underwhelming. I'm not sure what those two slots are going to be, they may go back to being Graveyard hate, but as I stated earlier, I'm not sure they're necessary.
*wow salvation sucks, way to "bleep out" my quote of myself.
** Nah, I'm just bitter because it wont let me just post quotes...
With the current explosion of Zoo and Merfolk I felt that Dreadstill's sideboard needed an overhaul...
My conclusions after excessive testing in the "New Meta"
Necessary:
3(+) REB/Pyro *Good against Aggro Control and RIDICULOUS against Merfolk
3(+) Sweepers (I personally think Firespout is just all around the best)
3(+) Krosan Grip *Counterbalance is still an issue despite its recent decline
That leaves us with 6 slots to fill:
Things that can fill the slots:
-Creature Steal: Sower, threads, etc
-Graveyard hate: Crypt/Relic
-Spot removal: Submerge, BEB, Etc
-Utility: Crucible, Pithing Needle, Annul, Etc
-Additional Artifact/enchant destruction: Trygon, Ancient Grudge, etc
What I currently have together is:
3 REB
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 BEB
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
A few things to ponder:
-How important is graveyard hate right now?
-Is BEB really necessary, It's excellent against Gobs, and its decent against Zoo, but would Submerge be better since Zoo is much more common?
-With the recent success that Landstill has been having should slots be devoted to that match up or should we just let Geoff and Tariq do their thing?
This is the sideboard I am thinking about switching to, it has been tested limitedly, but it needs further testing...
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 Submerge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ancient Grudge
I think this was mentioned earlier in the thread and maybe those that have tried it can comment. But, what about Lightning Bolt over over BEB in the board? Blast is "easier" to cast, but bolt is more versatile and answers most of the same problems. It also hits Merfolk.
Lightning Bolt handles Qasali Pridemage. If you had Firespout and Lightning Bolt in the sideboard it would help a lot against the Zoo matchups that are tough right now.
Quote from J.V. (ME) »
Yeah, I actually really like that idea, I think I'm going to give this sideboard a try:
3 REB
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pithing Needle*
*might be 2 GY hate, I'm not sure yet.
With this I would also go up to 3 maindeck Volcanic Island.
Well said sir, well said.
Black also allows you to run a single Executioner's Capsule and allows plague out of the board, but as Greiver said, The sweepers are just better against Zoo and Tribal. Also by cutting red you lose Red Elemental Blast which is nothing short of necessary against Merfolk. Basically Dark Confidant despite being amazing doesn't make up for what you would need to cut for it.
Just an update Myself, Scott Blumental (VsTheWorld on the Source), Rodney Hannigan (Roodmistah on the source), and Rich Shay (TheAtogLord on the source/manadrain) All Took Dreadstill to the Boston 5k Tournament yesterday
I went 5-3 and came in thirty somethingth
Rodney went 6-2 and came in 17th.
Rich Shay went 7-0-1 in Swiss and then beat Eli Kassis in top 8 and then lost in top 4 to Canadian Thresh.
Scott won the event going 6-1-1 in Swiss then beat Plainswalker Landstill in top 8, RGW Zoo in top 4 and Canadian Threshold in the finals.
Rodney Played his Ur List while Scott and myself Both played my latest posted Ugr List and Rich played my list with like a five card difference, he cut spell snare and a top and a counterbalance for some maindeck burn to help with the Zoo and Merfolk matchups.
Actually on that note, I am currently running 3 Spell Snare and 2 Daze, the reason for this is that as long as my opponent are playing around Daze, then Daze is doing its job. I feel 2 is the right number because then it comes up enough for your opponent to know it is there and therefore they play around it but not enough that it clogs up your hand.
On the topic of Fire/ice, I've tested it and its excellent in heavy aggro metas but overall I've found them to be worse than the top, counterbalance, and spell snare that you cut for them.
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It is a 1cc For counterbalance.
2 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
5 Island
3 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Stifle
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Trickbind
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
C.I.#:5
C.I.#:5
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
4 Island
Creatures:10
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
3 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Daze
2 Spell Snare
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Trickbind
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Peacekeeper
3 Spell Pierce
2 Perish
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Plains
C.I.#:5
Also, in other news Ur Dreadstill came in 6th at the SCG's Charlotte 5k today after coming in 3rd at the end of swiss (5-0-2) and then losing to the 6th seed UGB Counterbalance in top 8.
C.I.#:5
Also, on a side-note, here is an interesting side-boarding strategy I have been testing out against Merfolk when on the Play.
-4 Force of Will
-3 Standstill
-3 Spell Snare
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Firespout
My Logic behind this is that with the exception of Turn 1 Vial there are literally zero cards in Merfolk that require a FOW and the Merfolk match-up is very tempo oriented so the 2 for 1ing of FOW is actually relevant, also you are bringing in so many non blue cards while taking out blue cards that you greatly weaken FOW's blue count.
On the Draw it's:
-3 Standstill
-3 Spell Snare
-2 Daze
-1 Counterbalance
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 REB
+3 Firespout
C.I.#:5
-2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-3 Standstill
-2 Daze
-1 Trickbind
+2 Sower of Temptation
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Krosan Grip
On the Play:
Same but -1 Spell Snare -1 E.E. instead of -2 Daze
There are small changes based on list changes specifically how many Dreadnoughts, Dazes, Standstills, and E.E.'s do you play?
C.I.#:5
In addition to what Cecilia said, Affinity is also very susceptible to Counter-top, Spell Snare, and Stifle, as all of their relevent spells cost 1 or 2 (with the exception of Master E)
C.I.#:5
You have obviously never heard of the "Rich Shay Factor" It is a phenomenon in which Rich tests something excessively and then goes with the card choice that worked less in testing and then top 4/8's (wins... etc... etc) anyways. Bolt (or Fire/Ice) main is not bad at all, just Dreadstill's G1 is so good against most of the field that they really aren't necessary, The only slots that I could actually see being cut are: Counterbalance #4 and E.E. #2, but like I previously stated I don't think you improve enough important matchups by adding it in comparison to the matchups you weaken by cutting the CB.
C.I.#:5
C.I.#:5
*wow salvation sucks, way to "bleep out" my quote of myself.
** Nah, I'm just bitter because it wont let me just post quotes...
C.I.#:5
C.I.#:5
Black also allows you to run a single Executioner's Capsule and allows plague out of the board, but as Greiver said, The sweepers are just better against Zoo and Tribal. Also by cutting red you lose Red Elemental Blast which is nothing short of necessary against Merfolk. Basically Dark Confidant despite being amazing doesn't make up for what you would need to cut for it.
C.I.#:5
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sower Of Temptation
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
1 Fire / Ice
4 Force Of Will
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
1 Ponder
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
3 Island
2 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
3 Firespout
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
6 Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroclasm
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sower Of Temptation
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
Scott's First place tournament report can be found here.
C.I.#:5
I went 5-3 and came in thirty somethingth
Rodney went 6-2 and came in 17th.
Rich Shay went 7-0-1 in Swiss and then beat Eli Kassis in top 8 and then lost in top 4 to Canadian Thresh.
Scott won the event going 6-1-1 in Swiss then beat Plainswalker Landstill in top 8, RGW Zoo in top 4 and Canadian Threshold in the finals.
Rodney Played his Ur List while Scott and myself Both played my latest posted Ugr List and Rich played my list with like a five card difference, he cut spell snare and a top and a counterbalance for some maindeck burn to help with the Zoo and Merfolk matchups.
C.I.#:5
On the topic of Fire/ice, I've tested it and its excellent in heavy aggro metas but overall I've found them to be worse than the top, counterbalance, and spell snare that you cut for them.
C.I.#:5