Peacekeeper was the best card in the Fish MU for this deck. Unfortunately, WotC printed Dismember which Fish now runs MD. Frequently, they will get sided out against us, but Peacekeeper is still not really effective any more. The black splash is just far better against a combo heavy meta. We simply are not going to race combo or Fish (we run Islands), so using Grim as anything other than consistent removal is just not reasonable. A splash is necessary for removal in this deck and black, I feel, just gives us a much wider range of positive MUs.
removal isn't a deterrent to not run a good creature. that's an age old argument. you play blue and you have counters. use them.
i don't even want to get into the color argument. each color improves this deck's match-ups for certain decks and weakens the match-up against some others. black isn't the be all and end all splash for dreadstill. my meta for example has almost no combo other than spring tide and storm. i have trickbind for storm and mindbreak trap/surgical extraction for tide. a black splash for something like discard wouldn't help either of those match-ups much because a good combo deck doesn't break to a total of 4 discard spells in the deck post SB.
I red really that necessary for this deck? It seems it only helps your Fish MU and Fish is not the boogeyman that it used to be. Snapcaster + Lavamance is a non-bo and we are really only using it for removal. Wouldn't black be just as efficient while allowing us to run a strong hand disruption suite? If Fish is truly the issue, aren't we better off splashing white for Peacekeeper out of board since Fish will always side out their Dismembers anyways? In a heavy combo meta, like we have, I much prefer Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach over Grim Lavamancer and Lightning Bolt.
dreadstill can be run with any color really. each color has its advantages/disadvantages that they bring to this deck. red somewhat improves the blue based match-up and aggro/aggro-control based decks with REB and firespout. black does better against NO strategies with perish and provides some additional CA with bob. white provides more control elements in StP and peacekeeper. green adds more tempo in tarmogoyf. pick your weapon. each of these colors has put dreadstill lists in the top 8 of numerous tournaments.
right now though, i think the red or white splash would be more beneficial, as they were before MM was first introduced. fish isn't dying out. with the card pool back to what it was before MM, merfolk and combo are going to be back on top of every meta game.
boarding out 2-3 noughts is fine as long as you have 1 left main deck with the trinkets to fetch it when you have control.
and i disagree that snapcaster mage plays differently from what dreadstill is as a deck. your main win conditions are nought and jace, but you have to be able to gain control of the game before dropping either or waste a lot of resources protecting them. gaining control requires a lot of answers, and standstill isn't enough of a CA engine as you really don't have any control of what you get with it. grim lavamancer somewhat provided some additional CA together with basilisk collar, but it was fragile and needed a 2nd card to be useful against anything other than zoo. snapcaster mage on the other hand is an all around good card. it provides a decent body, doubles the number of answers you have and it just gets better as the game goes on. it can be particularly sweet after your opponent breaks your standstill as you get 3 cards and can opt not to use any of them. he also allows you to not worry about playing out your stifles early to disrupt your opponent before drawing that all too dead card nought. if anything, snapcaster mage contributes greatly to this deck.
this is the build i'm currently running with. it pains me to relegate my tarmogoyfs to my binder but snapcaster is just too good of keeping you in control mid-late game.
I did the same thing for the same reason but in practice I never once flashed it back. I'd almost always rather get a lightning bolt, fire//ice, Brainstorm, or 1cc counterspell. The wasteland protection is underrated, I've also been able to play a dreadnought + stifle with only one land because of it. Daze might not give good synergy but its just a good card. I often board 2 out just because after seeing the card in that first game, people play around it which means you don't even need to use/have it for it to affect the game.
the thing with daze is if i run it it has to be 3-4 to increase the chances of having it when it really matters. i don't regret swapping it out for counterspells because snapcaster on bolts and stuff makes up for the 1-2 spells you miss countering in turn 1 or 2 with daze. and while i've rarely been able to flashback a counterspell with snapcaster, i would much prefer to have the option open. wasteland i'm not so worried about with stifle and snapcaster to flash it back later.
I don't know about you but I've been shredding merfolk with my list so I'm not about to carry SB cards especially for it. Red Elemental Blast turns this one from favorable to blowout. I'd like to find room for V. Clique in the main. If the dreadnought doesn't work out, its pretty tough to close the game. I feel like Clique could partially solve that.
yes i've found that the merfolk and zoo matchups have become much easier with snapcaster on board. so far i haven't been looking for an additional win condition though as snapcaster greatly increases the number of turns that we can control the game, giving more time to win with snapcaster/factory beatdown or get to a point wherein it is safe enough to land a dreadnought.
i repent. 4 snapcasters is great and can very well replace lavamancer. though i would still keep some lavamancers in the SB for merfolk. i don't think the deck needs a revamp just to accomodate snapcaster though. flashing back bolts and counterspells has been more than enough for my needs. i did cut daze for counterspell because if i'm going to flashback a 2cc counter with mage, i'd rather it be a hard counter than a conditional one.
Snapcaster Mage is essentially replacing Grim Lavamancer in this build. Both can turn your graveyard into removal but the Mage is obviously superior and pitches to FoW. I started with just two mages but quickly grew to appreciate the card advantage that he is and piled in more. Snapcaster is going to get surgical extraction banned, the combo is disgusting. 3 Daze might seem like a lot since its not a great card to have with snapcaster but in my experience other things are flashed back more often than counters anyways, to the point where I'd rather make them play around Daze and Spell Piece than actually have to waste a Snapcaster flashing one back. Hibernation was a recent addition to the sideboard and I am LOVING them. Submerge doesn't quite go with Snapcaster and hibernation has a few other benefits like stopping Progenitus, clearing boards against Bant, NO RUG, Zoo, and such and answers the choke which they could be boarding against you. I like it better than mass destruction vs Enchantress since it can't be undone with a replenish and stops city of solitude. Being able to flashback stifle is huge since one doesn't think twice about using them on an opposing fetchland, wasteland, or snapmage.
interesting build. i was going to try mage in place of lavamancers in my Ur list myself. i'd still like to be able to fit standstill in though. maybe less fire/ice since most of the time you'll want to be getting a counter or just bolt in with the mage anyway. counterspell also seems to have better use with the mage than daze, although that will reduce your turn 1/2 defense.
also, i may go with a 2-2 split between lavamancer and mage. mage is very good in theory but it's rarely going to be an early play and the constant utility from lavamancer can't be overlooked. mage will be good in the mid-late game as an extra counter/bolt when you're running low on ammo.
and yes, hibernation > submerge right now. with green running rampant.
clique has 3 power, flying, a disruptive ability, and it can be played as early as turn 3, all of which are very relevant in legacy. snapcaster doesn't really have a relevant body considering that anything can block him and that he has no evasion. he is also limited in that he'll be a dead card in your hand half the time, especially in the early game. i think spellstutter sprite or vendilion clique are better in that spot if you want to make space for it.
i'm not sold on snapcaster mage yet. he's been a dead card for me more often than not in testing.
regarding the color argument, i would say run Ugr for goyf/lavamancers/bolts if your meta is mostly aggro/aggro-control and Ubw is your meta is more control.
right now i'm a bit hesitant to run dreadstill in general though because stifle has been extremely lack luster of late. the tempo game wherein you stifle a fetch land doesn't really hinder decks much these days since the average land count for decks in legacy has gone up. there aren't too many game breaking abilities to counter either.
UB has always been clunky for me. seeing as how the meta is just going to go back to how it was (except with BW stoneblade) i think i'll just be sticking to my Ugr list with goyf and bolts. jace is a card that needs to be tested though i think he'll be standing in for standstill more than anything else as there's not enough room for jace, standstill and the CBt combo.
bob is certainly better for versions with black. i'm running Ugr though so my options are different. and vision isn't as bad as it looks. it's very common in UW stoneblade for example and it doesn't force you into difficult positions like standstill does. often times i find myself needed card draw in the mid-late game with not enough board position to lay down a standstill.
i don't think cb is very good right now given the popularity of NORUG and hive mind. i might try playing around with ancestral vision as a replacement for standstill.
Is counterbalance as an engine basically dead right now? As i noticed your list has included main-deck removal instead of the soft lock.
i dropped the soft lock around the time that natural order became so popular.
the only thing i'm still debating on right now is the value of jace over standstill. jace has been great and all but he just doesn't provide the same type of early card draw that standstill does. on the other hand, standstill is too easy to play under for a skilled opponent.
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removal isn't a deterrent to not run a good creature. that's an age old argument. you play blue and you have counters. use them.
i don't even want to get into the color argument. each color improves this deck's match-ups for certain decks and weakens the match-up against some others. black isn't the be all and end all splash for dreadstill. my meta for example has almost no combo other than spring tide and storm. i have trickbind for storm and mindbreak trap/surgical extraction for tide. a black splash for something like discard wouldn't help either of those match-ups much because a good combo deck doesn't break to a total of 4 discard spells in the deck post SB.
dreadstill can be run with any color really. each color has its advantages/disadvantages that they bring to this deck. red somewhat improves the blue based match-up and aggro/aggro-control based decks with REB and firespout. black does better against NO strategies with perish and provides some additional CA with bob. white provides more control elements in StP and peacekeeper. green adds more tempo in tarmogoyf. pick your weapon. each of these colors has put dreadstill lists in the top 8 of numerous tournaments.
right now though, i think the red or white splash would be more beneficial, as they were before MM was first introduced. fish isn't dying out. with the card pool back to what it was before MM, merfolk and combo are going to be back on top of every meta game.
and i disagree that snapcaster mage plays differently from what dreadstill is as a deck. your main win conditions are nought and jace, but you have to be able to gain control of the game before dropping either or waste a lot of resources protecting them. gaining control requires a lot of answers, and standstill isn't enough of a CA engine as you really don't have any control of what you get with it. grim lavamancer somewhat provided some additional CA together with basilisk collar, but it was fragile and needed a 2nd card to be useful against anything other than zoo. snapcaster mage on the other hand is an all around good card. it provides a decent body, doubles the number of answers you have and it just gets better as the game goes on. it can be particularly sweet after your opponent breaks your standstill as you get 3 cards and can opt not to use any of them. he also allows you to not worry about playing out your stifles early to disrupt your opponent before drawing that all too dead card nought. if anything, snapcaster mage contributes greatly to this deck.
4 mishra's factory
3 wasteland
2 misty rainforest
4 scalding tarn
3 volcanic island
1 tropical island
4 island
1 phyrexian dreadnought
4 snapcaster mage
3 trinket mage
Planeswalkers
3 jace, the mindsculptor
Artifacts
1 engineered explosives
1 sensei's divining top
3 standstill
Spells
4 lightning bolt
4 brainstorm
4 stifle
3 spell snare
4 counterspell
4 force of will
the thing with daze is if i run it it has to be 3-4 to increase the chances of having it when it really matters. i don't regret swapping it out for counterspells because snapcaster on bolts and stuff makes up for the 1-2 spells you miss countering in turn 1 or 2 with daze. and while i've rarely been able to flashback a counterspell with snapcaster, i would much prefer to have the option open. wasteland i'm not so worried about with stifle and snapcaster to flash it back later.
yes i've found that the merfolk and zoo matchups have become much easier with snapcaster on board. so far i haven't been looking for an additional win condition though as snapcaster greatly increases the number of turns that we can control the game, giving more time to win with snapcaster/factory beatdown or get to a point wherein it is safe enough to land a dreadnought.
interesting build. i was going to try mage in place of lavamancers in my Ur list myself. i'd still like to be able to fit standstill in though. maybe less fire/ice since most of the time you'll want to be getting a counter or just bolt in with the mage anyway. counterspell also seems to have better use with the mage than daze, although that will reduce your turn 1/2 defense.
also, i may go with a 2-2 split between lavamancer and mage. mage is very good in theory but it's rarely going to be an early play and the constant utility from lavamancer can't be overlooked. mage will be good in the mid-late game as an extra counter/bolt when you're running low on ammo.
and yes, hibernation > submerge right now. with green running rampant.
regarding the color argument, i would say run Ugr for goyf/lavamancers/bolts if your meta is mostly aggro/aggro-control and Ubw is your meta is more control.
right now i'm a bit hesitant to run dreadstill in general though because stifle has been extremely lack luster of late. the tempo game wherein you stifle a fetch land doesn't really hinder decks much these days since the average land count for decks in legacy has gone up. there aren't too many game breaking abilities to counter either.
i dropped the soft lock around the time that natural order became so popular.
the only thing i'm still debating on right now is the value of jace over standstill. jace has been great and all but he just doesn't provide the same type of early card draw that standstill does. on the other hand, standstill is too easy to play under for a skilled opponent.