Once you get the flipping down it should hit almost every time. It's really obnoxious to play against if played as printed.
I very much disagree with this. There's lots of cards that are obnoxious to play against, but Chaos Orb is not one of them, assuming you're playing with your cards spread out (which I would certainly be doing if i was playing against the guy with the Orb and it was being played as printed). At that point the upside is Vindicate, which I admit is a great upside, but there's also the downside of missing (or even accidentally hitting your own cards), and it's exciting no matter what.
Realistically what's going to happen is that as soon as Chaos Orb gets played, the opponent is going to spread his cards out (unless you have a rule that prohibits this, in which case he'll just be occupying the entire table for the entire match). My errata is to prevent this from actually happening, because it's annoying to everyone else. We're almost always going to be playing on an 8-foot dining room table that comfortably holds 3 matches but no more. It's not the perfect solution, becuase if you screw up the flip the Chaos Orb is likely to get something anyway, but it's close enough for me.
The only reason I'm not playing Chaos Orb completely as written is because of the impracticality issue of playing against it 'correctly', which is for the opposing player to spread his cards out enough that Orb can't hit more than one. I do think the flipping part is an important part of the card. Same with keeping Shahrazad out - I think it's an acceptable card and I'd play it, but it's impractical to ask everyone to sit around for an hour to wait for a match that could be as long as six games to finish.
I do have a 'Cube errata' on Orcish Artillery and Orcish Oriflamme due to the theme of the old-school cube - I have Alpha copies of both and they get played for their Alpha casting costs (1R on both), but people seem to enjoy that quirk and it also improves the red 2-drops, which pretty much suck otherwise. Everything else is played with current rules and current Oracle texts - it's way too much to ask people to remember how the rules *used* to work, IMO.
After thinking about it, we may go all in on this thing..yeah, it is obnoxious but its just one card..and there are a few others that people play that produce similarly grating scenarios.
In related news, last night I picked up a Guardian Beast. Didn't actually realize the interaction between Beast and Chaos Orb.
Shahrazad is not in my cube, and won't be. The scenario above is very good, but in the end we have places to be and things to do, and waiting for a round of subgame to finish is awful.
Damn straight you have to flip it. I think that it's cool you play that card and require the dexterity. Props.
Unfortunately I'm not all-in on Chaos Orb. My errata is that you can destroy any *single* card it lands on, but not *all* of them. My group is competitive enough that they'd spread their cards all over the table to avoid the one-sided Apocalypse, which is both the right play and utterly obnoxious.
Banned Cards for Power Level: Moxen, Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Sol Ring, Library of Alexandria, Mana Drain, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Booster Tutor
Banned Cards for "fun" factor: Armageddon, Ravages of War, Mind Twist, Hymn to Tourach, Moat, Cataclysm, Catastrophe, Stupor
Banned because white having a counterspell is too weird for me: Mana Tithe
Heh. Illumination is not in my cube at the moment, but it's sitting in the 'maybe one day' binder.
Pringlesman, I guess I should specify that when I refer to power level, I mean that the card is too good. Squire and Camel aren't in my cube due to power level either.
This has been an interesting read. Surprised that there are so many people that won't run a card at all due to art/border. I hate bad art too, but it won't prevent me from running a card at all. I run all-English, but that's because I play with people who don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of Magic cards.
Re: manual dexterity cards, I am running Chaos Orb due to theme, and yes, you have to flip it.
I'm really more concerned with power level alone, rather than other considerations. wtwlf123 and Konfusius, thanks for the links.
The list seems to be
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Black Lotus
Moxes
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Library of Alexandria
Timetwister
Mana Drain
Mind Twist
Balance
Mana Vault
in rough order of offensiveness. Several newer cards (Jitte, Time Spiral etc) are not applicable for me since my cube is only Alpha-Exodus.
I think I'll be keeping Mana Drain, Mind Twist, Balance and Mana Vault, and not running the rest. Mind Twist doesn't seem to be that bad if you're not running a lot of acceleration and there's not much in my cube. Mana Drain can be played around sufficiently. If I owned a Timetwister I'd probably keep that too.
If you ban any cards from your Cube for power level or annoyance factor, which ones are they and why?
Lots of people run unpowered Cubes, but will still include non-P9 cards that are generally regarded as overpowered for Cube (such as Sol Ring and Mind Twist). Sol Ring is generally regarded as the worst offender, but Library and Mind Twist are frequently mentioned and so is Mana Drain. Looking to put together a list of what people think is just too good.
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I very much disagree with this. There's lots of cards that are obnoxious to play against, but Chaos Orb is not one of them, assuming you're playing with your cards spread out (which I would certainly be doing if i was playing against the guy with the Orb and it was being played as printed). At that point the upside is Vindicate, which I admit is a great upside, but there's also the downside of missing (or even accidentally hitting your own cards), and it's exciting no matter what.
Realistically what's going to happen is that as soon as Chaos Orb gets played, the opponent is going to spread his cards out (unless you have a rule that prohibits this, in which case he'll just be occupying the entire table for the entire match). My errata is to prevent this from actually happening, because it's annoying to everyone else. We're almost always going to be playing on an 8-foot dining room table that comfortably holds 3 matches but no more. It's not the perfect solution, becuase if you screw up the flip the Chaos Orb is likely to get something anyway, but it's close enough for me.
I do have a 'Cube errata' on Orcish Artillery and Orcish Oriflamme due to the theme of the old-school cube - I have Alpha copies of both and they get played for their Alpha casting costs (1R on both), but people seem to enjoy that quirk and it also improves the red 2-drops, which pretty much suck otherwise. Everything else is played with current rules and current Oracle texts - it's way too much to ask people to remember how the rules *used* to work, IMO.
In related news, last night I picked up a Guardian Beast. Didn't actually realize the interaction between Beast and Chaos Orb.
Shahrazad is not in my cube, and won't be. The scenario above is very good, but in the end we have places to be and things to do, and waiting for a round of subgame to finish is awful.
Unfortunately I'm not all-in on Chaos Orb. My errata is that you can destroy any *single* card it lands on, but not *all* of them. My group is competitive enough that they'd spread their cards all over the table to avoid the one-sided Apocalypse, which is both the right play and utterly obnoxious.
Heh. Illumination is not in my cube at the moment, but it's sitting in the 'maybe one day' binder.
Pringlesman, I guess I should specify that when I refer to power level, I mean that the card is too good. Squire and Camel aren't in my cube due to power level either.
This has been an interesting read. Surprised that there are so many people that won't run a card at all due to art/border. I hate bad art too, but it won't prevent me from running a card at all. I run all-English, but that's because I play with people who don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of Magic cards.
Re: manual dexterity cards, I am running Chaos Orb due to theme, and yes, you have to flip it.
The list seems to be
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Black Lotus
Moxes
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Library of Alexandria
Timetwister
Mana Drain
Mind Twist
Balance
Mana Vault
in rough order of offensiveness. Several newer cards (Jitte, Time Spiral etc) are not applicable for me since my cube is only Alpha-Exodus.
I think I'll be keeping Mana Drain, Mind Twist, Balance and Mana Vault, and not running the rest. Mind Twist doesn't seem to be that bad if you're not running a lot of acceleration and there's not much in my cube. Mana Drain can be played around sufficiently. If I owned a Timetwister I'd probably keep that too.
Lots of people run unpowered Cubes, but will still include non-P9 cards that are generally regarded as overpowered for Cube (such as Sol Ring and Mind Twist). Sol Ring is generally regarded as the worst offender, but Library and Mind Twist are frequently mentioned and so is Mana Drain. Looking to put together a list of what people think is just too good.