So, to repeat this back, you basically have the general slot as an extra slot in the pack? Like a basic land? Or did I misunderstand that.
You got the right idea. Seeding each pack with one bi or tri colored legend is how I draft my cube these days too.
I used to do a 5-card generals only pack before the main cube, but my players felt it forced them into a color identity too early in the process. Seeding packs instead has been a much cleaner system for allowing some folks to stay open longer during the draft, while giving other players access to a general that they want to run with for the remainder of the draft + deck building phase.
Plus one counters is definitely a powerful and fun strategy in multiplayer cube. I think your list above is a good start, and would consider (if you aren't using these already) managorger hydra, armorcraft judge, champion of lambholt, and mycoloth.
Hi everyone! Can I please trouble the forum for some thoughts on a bunch of cuts I would like to make to my edh cube? I'm interested in getting it to where 8 players can draft 5 packs of 14 cards (main cube) + 1 general seeded per pack (a reduction of about 40 cards in my case). I have a few different schemes in mind, which I've listed below.
Any advice on cards that have been better in practice than on paper is certainly appreciated as well!
Possible Cuts:
Scheme 1 (40 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, 2 from each multicolor, 25 colorless cuts
Scheme 2 (40 cards) - 2 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 20 colorless cuts
Scheme 3 (40 cards) - 4 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
Scheme 4 (25 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, add booster tutor to black, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
IMHO, you should keep the wolf run and swap out terramorphic. Wolf run isn't the sexiest card on a cursory look, but it is just so damn good at breaking up board stalls, and turning the most pissant token creature into a huge threat.
I'd say Aristocrat and, maybe, Storm's Fury bit too niche/weak for a multiplayer theater. I'd personally consider some of the following that are in budget range for Rakdos:
For Selesnya, I'd say that the sundering growth effect is better relegated to a more mundane white or green spot (multicolor stuff should be more splashy and less utilitarian, IMO). I'd say that vitu-ghazi guildmage might be too expensive, and the spot better spent on a direct token producer. Finally, armadillo cloak may be too weak for multiplayer, unless you're running a ton of hexproof stuff.
Here are some budget selesnya cards I'd toss into consideration:
Do note that it has some distinct disadvantages when compared to Terramorphic, notably its interactions with Crucible of Worlds and its ability to trigger Landfall twice.
This crossed my mind too, but I think I have enough fetchland support between 10 fetches, evolving wilds, the mirage group, and misc others, that I don't think giving barrens a shot will negatively impact landfall support.
I will likely build a casual C16 "block" deck out of one of the precons, and use the remaining extras as buylist or trade fodder for Origins-Kaladesh stuff I've missed this past year.
Good decks overall though! Looking forward to a special 4-colored session with the new generals and partner legends.
I'm planning on acquiring all of the decks. What I'll probably land up doing is making a 4-color (commander) wacky pack, used with discretion by the group whenever lore seeker gets drafted.
I already have a wacky pack that includes hidden agendas and theros heroes journey cards. Whenever we're feeling a totally nuts game we'll throw that into the mix. But if not, then we just do the normal extra main-cube pack variant.
If lore seeker gets picked early enough, and folks are feeling comfortable with 4+ color decks in the mix, then you can put those cards into circulation. The pack composition could be something like 5 4-color generals, 5 allied partners, 5 enemy partners OR 5 4-colored, 5 of the strongest partner cards, 5 extra mana rocks or fetch lands.
Anyway, the 4-color stuff seems really cool, but I'm not planning to accommodate it in my main cube, except as something discretionarily activated when the group feels like a more bonkers session.
Does fireweaver work with one of those crazy ass station combos or something? Not saying I'd run it myself; it requires too many pieces, and I don't realy like combos in multiplayer cube. If fireweaver looked for creatures instead of artifacts, like impact tremors, I'd probably give it some consideration. /pointless observation
Here are the cards I'm interested in; few ideas on cuts yet.
Kaladesh was probably the least I've ever spent on preorders for my edh cube. I think I probably spent more on foil basic lands than actual cards I want to include in the main cube! Not that I'm necessarily complaining, coming off friggin' month after month of releases (SOI, EMA, EMN, CN2, etc), my wallet really needed a break before commander 2016.
Animation Module - possible inclusion as a +1 counters, tokens, infect, and planeswalker loyalty booster. Gets some extra points for having such a low cmc Cultivator's Caravan - good quality mana rock that can double as an opportunistic beater. I may be able to find a colorless mana rock to swap out for this guy Dramatic Reversal - possible inclusion just for variety of effects. I have a few functional reprint cards in blue that I could see switching out for this one. Cheap and exploitable too. Ghirapur Orrery - possible inclusion. Seems like a nice accompaniment to draw punishers like spirit of the labyrinth, Leovold, Emissary of Trest, and Nekusar, the Mindrazer. Inventors' Fair - possible inclusion over an underperforming non-basic land. Key to the City - unlikely inclusion, but may make it in if there's an under performing equipment slot in my cube. Repeatable voltron support is nice, but voltron is an archetype that I've slowly but surely been marginalizing in my cube. Master Trinketeer - unlikely inclusion. May hold onto in my collection though, in case the U/R thopter archetype I've been cultivating has room to expand into white, especially after Aether Revolt. Panharmonicon - sure fire inclusion. Scrapheap Scrounger - planned inclusion in black. It's a nice addition to my suite of discard and sac-fodder creatures like bloodghast and bloodsoaked champion. Smuggler's Copter - very likely inclusion. I love my looters, and the fact that this vehicle is colorless should provide a nice shot in the arm to white and red.
So are you still erring on the side of "yes, it does copy etb's" then? That would definitely make this a much crazier card. Either way, it's not gonna dissuade me from including the card as soon as I get a hold of it.
Hmmm, now that I'm reading through the rulings forum I am seeing votes in favor of doubling etb, but it doesn't seem universal. Still looking for the ruling (I think) I read about where it made a distinction between etb and triggers...
You got the right idea. Seeding each pack with one bi or tri colored legend is how I draft my cube these days too.
I used to do a 5-card generals only pack before the main cube, but my players felt it forced them into a color identity too early in the process. Seeding packs instead has been a much cleaner system for allowing some folks to stay open longer during the draft, while giving other players access to a general that they want to run with for the remainder of the draft + deck building phase.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Also, don't forget to consider cross-color pollination with +1 counters, including cards like chasm skulker, tezzeret's gambit, abzan battle priest, abzan falconer, high sentinels of arashin, drana, liberator of malakir, taurean mauler, sunscorch regent, and gavony township. Just try to keep your overall cmc down, and the archetype should probably gel pretty easily.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Some of the rationals behind cuts are
a. Thinning out cards that are better in mono-colored decks (Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Gauntlet of Power, etc)
b. Cards that are better in more combo-y environments (doubling cube, dramatic reversal)
c. General under performers (bloodsoaked champion, nahiri, the lithomancer, Grim Haruspex, Drana, Liberator of Malakir)
d. Cards from the mythical "artifact.dec" that has just never seemed to materialize (Muzzio, Chief Engineer)
e. Expensive CMC stuff (Drogskol Reaver, Akroma, Angel of Fury)
Any advice on cards that have been better in practice than on paper is certainly appreciated as well!
Possible Cuts:
Scheme 1 (40 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, 2 from each multicolor, 25 colorless cuts
Scheme 2 (40 cards) - 2 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 20 colorless cuts
Scheme 3 (40 cards) - 4 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
Scheme 4 (25 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, add booster tutor to black, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
Cuts
1 Sunscorch Regent
1 Oblation
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
1 Sigarda's Aid
1 Valorous Stance
Blue
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Chief Engineer
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Dramatic Reversal
1 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1 Sakashima the Imposter
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Whirler Rogue
1 Thopter Spy Network
1 Vesuvan Doppelganger
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Sewer Nemesis
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Avatar of Woe
Red
1 Abbot of Keral Keep
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
1 Dragon Whisperer
1 Humble Defector
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Thopter Engineer
1 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Sylvan Advocate
1 Tribute to the Wild
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 See the Unwritten
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Narset Transcendant
1 Sire of Stagnation
1 Mind Grind
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Sire of Insanities
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Savageborn Hydra
1 Arlnn Kord
1 Armada Wurm
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Necrogenesis
1 Deathreap Ritual
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
1 Trygon Predator
1 Mystic Snake
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Epic Experiment
1 Steam Augery
1 Slayer's Stronghold
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Animation Module
1 Doubling Cube
1 Mindcrank
1 Surveyor's Scope
1 Coercive Portal
1 Ghirapur Orrery
1 Trading Post
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Staff of Nin
1 Thopter Assembly
1 Command Beacon
1 Dark Depths
1 Evolving Wilds
1 High Market
1 Mirror Pool
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Opal Palace
1 Seagate Wreckage
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vesuva
Thanks very much!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
/2 cents
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Which 15 cards from those sets would make for reasonable and fun inclusions in a multiplayer cube environment?
....?
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Swift Warkite
Cauldron Dance
Rakdos Guildmage
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
Rakdos Charm (in case there are graveyard and combo decks that need to be kept in check)
Kolaghan's Command (now at a much better price!)
Vial Smasher, the Fierce
Breath of Malfegor
Torrent of Souls
Havoc Festival
Kulrath Knight (especially as an anti +1 tokens foil)
Rakdos, Lord of Riots (maybe, depending on burn and pingers)
Fire Covenant
Bituminous Blast (maybe)
Boltwing Marauder
Sire of Insanity
Skull Rend
Dragonlord Kolaghan
For Selesnya, I'd say that the sundering growth effect is better relegated to a more mundane white or green spot (multicolor stuff should be more splashy and less utilitarian, IMO). I'd say that vitu-ghazi guildmage might be too expensive, and the spot better spent on a direct token producer. Finally, armadillo cloak may be too weak for multiplayer, unless you're running a ton of hexproof stuff.
Here are some budget selesnya cards I'd toss into consideration:
Trostani's Summoner
Dragonlord Dromoka
Dromoka's Command
Enlisted Wurm
Fleecemane Lion (maybe)
Heron's Grace Champion (probably enough humans to make this ok in most cubes)
Armada Wurm
Loxodon Hierarch
Hunting Grounds (might be interesting!)
Juniper Order Ranger
Qasali Pridemage
Selesnya Charm
Kind regards,
D
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
This crossed my mind too, but I think I have enough fetchland support between 10 fetches, evolving wilds, the mirage group, and misc others, that I don't think giving barrens a shot will negatively impact landfall support.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
...are probably it.
I will likely build a casual C16 "block" deck out of one of the precons, and use the remaining extras as buylist or trade fodder for Origins-Kaladesh stuff I've missed this past year.
Good decks overall though! Looking forward to a special 4-colored session with the new generals and partner legends.
EDIT: I'd like to find space for treacherous terrain, but I'm not sure yet.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I already have a wacky pack that includes hidden agendas and theros heroes journey cards. Whenever we're feeling a totally nuts game we'll throw that into the mix. But if not, then we just do the normal extra main-cube pack variant.
If lore seeker gets picked early enough, and folks are feeling comfortable with 4+ color decks in the mix, then you can put those cards into circulation. The pack composition could be something like 5 4-color generals, 5 allied partners, 5 enemy partners OR 5 4-colored, 5 of the strongest partner cards, 5 extra mana rocks or fetch lands.
Anyway, the 4-color stuff seems really cool, but I'm not planning to accommodate it in my main cube, except as something discretionarily activated when the group feels like a more bonkers session.
/2 cents
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Kaladesh was probably the least I've ever spent on preorders for my edh cube. I think I probably spent more on foil basic lands than actual cards I want to include in the main cube! Not that I'm necessarily complaining, coming off friggin' month after month of releases (SOI, EMA, EMN, CN2, etc), my wallet really needed a break before commander 2016.
Animation Module - possible inclusion as a +1 counters, tokens, infect, and planeswalker loyalty booster. Gets some extra points for having such a low cmc
Cultivator's Caravan - good quality mana rock that can double as an opportunistic beater. I may be able to find a colorless mana rock to swap out for this guy
Dramatic Reversal - possible inclusion just for variety of effects. I have a few functional reprint cards in blue that I could see switching out for this one. Cheap and exploitable too.
Ghirapur Orrery - possible inclusion. Seems like a nice accompaniment to draw punishers like spirit of the labyrinth, Leovold, Emissary of Trest, and Nekusar, the Mindrazer.
Inventors' Fair - possible inclusion over an underperforming non-basic land.
Key to the City - unlikely inclusion, but may make it in if there's an under performing equipment slot in my cube. Repeatable voltron support is nice, but voltron is an archetype that I've slowly but surely been marginalizing in my cube.
Master Trinketeer - unlikely inclusion. May hold onto in my collection though, in case the U/R thopter archetype I've been cultivating has room to expand into white, especially after Aether Revolt.
Panharmonicon - sure fire inclusion.
Scrapheap Scrounger - planned inclusion in black. It's a nice addition to my suite of discard and sac-fodder creatures like bloodghast and bloodsoaked champion.
Smuggler's Copter - very likely inclusion. I love my looters, and the fact that this vehicle is colorless should provide a nice shot in the arm to white and red.
Waiting for prices to drop a bit more:
Torrential Gearhulk - Possible replacement for frost titan.
Combustible Gearhulk - I'm interested in this card, but am uncertain if I have a high cmc cut to make.
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter - likely replacement for kruphix, god of horizons in my simic general section.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
EDIT: ha, tons of spam warnings ahead in this ruling thread. Not even sure if they came to a clear conclusion. Agreed though that they probably could have worded this card better.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/754427-panharmonicon
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."