Anger vs Hamilar Battlements: I'm thinking of switching the land for Anger. Not that the land is bad, but the potential upside of Anger seems higher since it's a free activation. What I don't know how to factor in is land vs deck slot. How much more valuable is it being a land? Enough that it's still better than Anger?
Wheel of Fortune: Red is really bad at drawing cards, but wheel seems tough to play since it gives new cards to everybody. I support reanimator strategies, artifact.dec and have some fast mana (5 ABU moxen, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith). Is that enough to make up for the downside of giving everybody cards (we are talking 3-4 player FFA).
The other option is to cut it and replace it with a second Faithless Looting.
Thanks!
Lands are strong because they don't *really* take up deck construction slots when building, though if you draft too many colorless lands you can run into issues.
Anger, on the other hand, is a card I'm rather fond of, so this is a tough call. Do you run Flamekin Village? I like EBT tapped most of the time over the colorless, since it means it doesn't hurt your ability to produce colored mana.
Wheel of Fortune is so much better than Looting. Sure, everyone else gets cards, but you get to control when it happens. The player to your right just draw a ton off of Recurring Insight or just double-tutored with Increasing Ambition? Seems like the perfect time for everyone to get a new hand.
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I've literally just tacked a commander section onto my 360 (which already included potential commanders). So Ayli and Karlov are in the main 360 historically. The commander section has two Orzhov slots, currently filled by Teysa and Ghost Dad. We're slowly moving the legendaries out of the 360 and into the commander section to fit awesome non-commander cards in (like this one).
At two, I'd suggest Ayli as a combination sacs and life matters general and then Obzedat for goodstuff.
Yeah, it was a tough one, and I'm going to be interested to see how it plays. One of my playgroup buddies was advocating dropping Mind's Eye for it instead.
Whoah now, that's just heresy.
Yeah, Twilight Prophet, Vona's Hunger and Journey to Eternity were all really, really close - they were more victims of how awesome the cards existing in those slots already really are. You pretty much need to sell your firstborn child to crack into my Golgari section in particular (which is historically the tightest guild in my cube).
Twilight Prophet was probably dropping Marauding Knight to get in, but that helps two separate tribes (it's a Zombie too nowadays), and my concern was that the Prophet was going to have days where it was nothing but a French Vanilla 2/4 (even if it goes utterly bananas once you've got ten permanents). Was close, though.
Vona's Hunger would've had to unseat Hero's Downfall, and I think we'll be needing the targeted planeswalker removal when the redirection rules get removed soon.
Marauding Knight seems really mediocre. I'd definitely give the Prophet a try over him. It's not even Crusading Knight which can combo with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for shenanigans.
Also note, the redirection rules being removed will be coupled with every targeted burn spell getting the text "Or planeswalker" tacked onto it. IDK yet how they're handling sweepers like Earthquake or other untargeted burn like Eidolon of the Great Revel, but I wouldn't sweat losing too many answers to walkers.
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I'm not the biggest fan of Angrath, to be quite honest. I definitely wouldn't drop Aristocrat for it. I could get behind a change that removes the mediocre Murder king though.
I'm not sold on Elenda. She doesn't work particularly well as a commander because you can't trigger her last ability and still send her to the command zone.
Mastermind's Acquisition in for Diabolic Tutor (still discussing what constitutes "outside of the game" - will be either sideboard, leftovers in the cube box, or your other decks from the night).
This seems like a fine swap as Acquisition is strictly better. I'd recommend limiting it to the rest of your draft pool for pulling though.
This seems fine, Teysa is one of the most boring Orzhov commanders. What does your lineup look like? How many total commanders. I feel like, at 3, my choices would be one of Karlov for Life matters, OG Teysa for Tokens/Sac, and Obzedat for generic goodstuff.
Not a fan of this change, Staff of Nin is the card I've been holding up to show that Immortal Sun seems underwhelming.
There were lots of other cards that were really close, too. Mostly we were specifically concerned with how easy/often City's Blessing would be turned on in some cards when there were likely other cards in the cube already that were stronger without it.
Just for the record, I'm considering Profane Procession to be the most slept-on card in the entire set. I ran into it at RIX pre-release and got utterly mangulated by it. If left unchecked, it's going to spend Turns 5-7 removing the biggest threat off the board, and then start sticking them all back into play one-by-one from Turn 8. That's a pretty good deal for Orzhov, which is likely grinding away with life totals already.
I feel like City's Blessing is going to get turned on fairly easily. I like Arch of Orazca as a lategame draw engine. Orazca Relic is basically another Commander Sphere that trades fixing for lifegain. Tilonali's Summoner seems pretty strong as well, because he easily turns on Ascend just by attacking with 5 lands and nothing else on the board. Timestream Navigator seems imminently breakable, though you may want to avoid that. Twilight Prophet seems solid. Vona's Hunger also seems solid - even just being a one-sided Instant Innocent Blood is great, throw in the ability to easily eat half of your opponents' boards and this definitely gets the thumbs up.
The other card that it seems like you're missing is Journey to Eternity. The card just screams value.
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Those look like solid changes overall except for Primal Amulet in for Trading Post. IMHO the Post is much more interesting and fun. Amulet seems slow and fairly boring.
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Thaumatic Compass is pretty big game. I ran it at the Ixalan pre-release and it was a huge deal. Journeyer's Kite is more or less good enough in Commander as-is, and the ability to flip into a Maze of Ith-type effect when you're set on lands is great. Works especially well with land untappers like Krosan Restorer or Stone-Seeder Hierophant, though not quite as well as Maze which infinites with Restorer.
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I've run a light Goblin tribal theme before, because Goblins have multiple tutors, giving them a lot of redundancy (and Red access to actual tutors), plus a lot of token generation, and one of the better self-contained tribal cards in Siege-gang Commander. Ultimately, I ended up cutting a fair amount of them after seeing Goblin Recruiter going 15th-16th pick every draft.
Elves and Zombies are probably your other best bets.
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Of those four drops, I'd drop Outpost Siege for Chandra Torch. Chandra makes for a better Impulsive Draw engine, and that's the mode you're generally picking on Siege. Mizzix's Mastery is a fine cut too, but supports a very different archetype.
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Those drops look okay, but I wonder if there isn't a better cut than Glissa, the Traitor. Most G/B legends are big into the sac + recursion archetype, and Glissa pulls the color pair in a unique direction.
The Dimir card I'd look to drop is probably Ashiok. Ashiok is fairly strong in regular Cube, but in EDH/Multiplayer cube, where there's more enemies, the chance of Ashiok living long enough to activate its -X ability goes down significantly, and since curves are higher, the chances of hitting a creature that you can actually steal after one +2 goes down as well. He's also extremely inflexible for a walker, as only a single one of his abilities can be used immediately, and if he's removed, that ability has no significant effect on the course of the game. Compare to the other 3-mana walkers: Jace at minimum draws you a card and his +Draw might even keep him alive for a while, Liliana can function as an edict, attack hands, or even set up your own graveyard shenanigans, Domri can either take a shot at drawing a card or make a dude fight, Dack loots two or steals the best artifact on the field. You've got a solid shot at card parity with all of these walkers even if they're dying right away, with flexible options in case one of their abilities is currently dead. Ashiok, on the other hand, seems like it'll be a "Target player exiles the top 3 cards of their library, gain 5 life" a significant amount of the time, and without any real variance either.
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I feel like the true dream with [c}Arcane Savant[/c] is Ghostly Flicker. It becomes a one-card infinite mana + infinite artifact/creature ETB triggers package.
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Monarch isn't really a "special case" though. Like, Monarch cards work perfectly fine in a normal game of Magic with no additional rules - Palace Jailer is actually seen a fair amount in Legacy even!
What IS a special case is introducing a Monarch at the start of the game that goes to whoever first deals damage to an opponent.
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Looking at switching from a regular cube configuration to EDH. My playgroup has mostly moved to EDH as a format and we all think that an EDH cube would make the decks quite fun. Things I would like some help on:
How do people draft yours? Do they draft legends first, or throughout the packs?
Are there any special pitfalls I should avoid in this format, as opposed to regular cube?
What is the ideal deck size for EDH cube matches?
Thanks for any feedback!
The way I've done it is this:
600 cards + 40 generals (multicolor legend in a special sleeve). Make 5 packs of 15 cards + 1 general per player, up to 8. There may be additional legendaries in the Cube that you can choose to use as your general, including monocolored ones, and you can use the general cards as actual cards too if they're in your color. Each player builds a deck that's 65 cards + 1 general.
Pitfalls: I've tried out a lot of the banned cards in my Cube. Some of them are fun but centralizing (Primeval Titan, Sylvan Primordial). Some of them are actually fairly weak (Panoptic Mirror, Painter's Servant, Gifts Ungiven). Some of them definitely warp the game and can be unfun.
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I'll be honest, that sounds terrible, but I greatly dislike both Planechase and Archenemy.
For EDH Cube I've done 640 to make 5 16-card packs per person for drafting a 66-card deck. So if you wanted it for four people you'd probably do 320 at that decksize.
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Note: even if the creature stops being Stormbreath Dragon, it won't stop being Monstrous. Turning it into Stormbreath again won't let you Monstrosity a second time, sadly.
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Although I don't play EDH, my general philosophy for cutting cards would be in this order:
1. General Underperformers (nobody drafts them)
2. Failed archetypes (artifact deck for you, nobody drafts them)
3. Cards that are better in more combo-y environments (more of a cube philosophy. I tend to think instant win combos ruin a good game of Magic)
4. Expensive CMC stuff (you are never at loss for top end, and lower curve cards are often at a premium)
5. Thinning out cards that are better in mono-colored decks (this one could be #4 if you guys rarely draft mono colored decks)
As to your cutting schemes, I'd like to see one in the middle. Something like : 40 cuts: -2 from WUBRG, -2 from multi, -10 from colorless
That way you keep more playable cards for different decks. I could suggest cuts, but they would be from a FFA MP point of view. Not sure how useful that is...
Devoted Druid could be a fun bridge between ramp and counters archetype as is Riskar as you mentioned.
If you support tokens and artifacts also, Angel of Invention could be a hit in all three archetypes
Beware that Persist cards and Doubling Season are a major nonbo...
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Paradox Engine vs. Eldrazi Monument? Engine is awesome, but it may be too narrow in cube. Monument has dished out match wins before.
Planar Bridge vs. Staff of Nin? Is the Bridge too slow? No question it's better if you've got the time and space.
Trophy Mage vs. Daring Apprentice? Trophy Mage is good but narrow - it can fetch 12 things out of my cube (most importantly, the five Swords).
Yahenni, Undying Partisan vs. Phyrexian Crusader? Yahenni is good, but trying to get into a really tight slot. The Crusader is good, and plays well with the Knight Tribal in my cube.
I'm not totally sold on either Oath or Cloak, so I guess I'd keep cloak.
Eldrazi Monument seems better than Paradox Engine unless you run a TOOOON of mana dorks and rocks plus some ways to draw cards from tapping permanents like Slate of Ancestry.
Planar Bridge seems like it should go in over a similar card like Ring of Three Wishes, Citanul Flute, or Planar Portal if you run any of those. If none of those make the cut already then I can't see Bridge making it. Staff seems too good to cut, it generates a TON of value from a one-time investment.
I'd definitely take the Trophy Mage over the Daring Apprentice. Apprentice is basically a slow Cancel that can be killed by Staff of Nin. That sounds *really* bad.
I'm not totally sold on Yahenni or Crusader either. Crusader needs a lot of infect to support it or a TON of power-buffing equipment. Yahenni is a solid sac outlet but that's about it. I'd consider something like Flesh Carver long before either.
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Lands are strong because they don't *really* take up deck construction slots when building, though if you draft too many colorless lands you can run into issues.
Anger, on the other hand, is a card I'm rather fond of, so this is a tough call. Do you run Flamekin Village? I like EBT tapped most of the time over the colorless, since it means it doesn't hurt your ability to produce colored mana.
Wheel of Fortune is so much better than Looting. Sure, everyone else gets cards, but you get to control when it happens. The player to your right just draw a ton off of Recurring Insight or just double-tutored with Increasing Ambition? Seems like the perfect time for everyone to get a new hand.
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At two, I'd suggest Ayli as a combination sacs and life matters general and then Obzedat for goodstuff.
Whoah now, that's just heresy.
Marauding Knight seems really mediocre. I'd definitely give the Prophet a try over him. It's not even Crusading Knight which can combo with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for shenanigans.
Also note, the redirection rules being removed will be coupled with every targeted burn spell getting the text "Or planeswalker" tacked onto it. IDK yet how they're handling sweepers like Earthquake or other untargeted burn like Eidolon of the Great Revel, but I wouldn't sweat losing too many answers to walkers.
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I'm not the biggest fan of Angrath, to be quite honest. I definitely wouldn't drop Aristocrat for it. I could get behind a change that removes the mediocre Murder king though.
This seems fine.
I'm not sold on Elenda. She doesn't work particularly well as a commander because you can't trigger her last ability and still send her to the command zone.
This seems like a fine swap as Acquisition is strictly better. I'd recommend limiting it to the rest of your draft pool for pulling though.
This seems fine, Teysa is one of the most boring Orzhov commanders. What does your lineup look like? How many total commanders. I feel like, at 3, my choices would be one of Karlov for Life matters, OG Teysa for Tokens/Sac, and Obzedat for generic goodstuff.
Not a fan of this change, Staff of Nin is the card I've been holding up to show that Immortal Sun seems underwhelming.
I feel like City's Blessing is going to get turned on fairly easily. I like Arch of Orazca as a lategame draw engine. Orazca Relic is basically another Commander Sphere that trades fixing for lifegain. Tilonali's Summoner seems pretty strong as well, because he easily turns on Ascend just by attacking with 5 lands and nothing else on the board. Timestream Navigator seems imminently breakable, though you may want to avoid that. Twilight Prophet seems solid. Vona's Hunger also seems solid - even just being a one-sided Instant Innocent Blood is great, throw in the ability to easily eat half of your opponents' boards and this definitely gets the thumbs up.
The other card that it seems like you're missing is Journey to Eternity. The card just screams value.
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Elves and Zombies are probably your other best bets.
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Those drops look okay, but I wonder if there isn't a better cut than Glissa, the Traitor. Most G/B legends are big into the sac + recursion archetype, and Glissa pulls the color pair in a unique direction.
The Dimir card I'd look to drop is probably Ashiok. Ashiok is fairly strong in regular Cube, but in EDH/Multiplayer cube, where there's more enemies, the chance of Ashiok living long enough to activate its -X ability goes down significantly, and since curves are higher, the chances of hitting a creature that you can actually steal after one +2 goes down as well. He's also extremely inflexible for a walker, as only a single one of his abilities can be used immediately, and if he's removed, that ability has no significant effect on the course of the game. Compare to the other 3-mana walkers: Jace at minimum draws you a card and his +Draw might even keep him alive for a while, Liliana can function as an edict, attack hands, or even set up your own graveyard shenanigans, Domri can either take a shot at drawing a card or make a dude fight, Dack loots two or steals the best artifact on the field. You've got a solid shot at card parity with all of these walkers even if they're dying right away, with flexible options in case one of their abilities is currently dead. Ashiok, on the other hand, seems like it'll be a "Target player exiles the top 3 cards of their library, gain 5 life" a significant amount of the time, and without any real variance either.
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What IS a special case is introducing a Monarch at the start of the game that goes to whoever first deals damage to an opponent.
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The way I've done it is this:
600 cards + 40 generals (multicolor legend in a special sleeve). Make 5 packs of 15 cards + 1 general per player, up to 8. There may be additional legendaries in the Cube that you can choose to use as your general, including monocolored ones, and you can use the general cards as actual cards too if they're in your color. Each player builds a deck that's 65 cards + 1 general.
Pitfalls: I've tried out a lot of the banned cards in my Cube. Some of them are fun but centralizing (Primeval Titan, Sylvan Primordial). Some of them are actually fairly weak (Panoptic Mirror, Painter's Servant, Gifts Ungiven). Some of them definitely warp the game and can be unfun.
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For EDH Cube I've done 640 to make 5 16-card packs per person for drafting a 66-card deck. So if you wanted it for four people you'd probably do 320 at that decksize.
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Beware that Persist cards and Doubling Season are a major nonbo...
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I'm not totally sold on either Oath or Cloak, so I guess I'd keep cloak.
Eldrazi Monument seems better than Paradox Engine unless you run a TOOOON of mana dorks and rocks plus some ways to draw cards from tapping permanents like Slate of Ancestry.
Planar Bridge seems like it should go in over a similar card like Ring of Three Wishes, Citanul Flute, or Planar Portal if you run any of those. If none of those make the cut already then I can't see Bridge making it. Staff seems too good to cut, it generates a TON of value from a one-time investment.
I'd definitely take the Trophy Mage over the Daring Apprentice. Apprentice is basically a slow Cancel that can be killed by Staff of Nin. That sounds *really* bad.
I'm not totally sold on Yahenni or Crusader either. Crusader needs a lot of infect to support it or a TON of power-buffing equipment. Yahenni is a solid sac outlet but that's about it. I'd consider something like Flesh Carver long before either.
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