MTG Salvation

Shenanigans is just a really good card for us. When I was playing Jaya, I found I had to pitch artifact destruction as removal that I needed later. Shenanigans is a well-costed and always 'on call' option that is unusual for red to have.

To be honest, I think we're starting to reach some zenith of useful red draw, and new variations of cards that already exist will replace those analogues, or not quite make the cut (c.f. Wheel of fate, Magus of the Wheel).

Oracle's Vault looks a lot like Chandra, Pyromaster and Outpost Siege, and I think it's probably worse than those cards. Do you really need another one?

Quote from Avarahaion »

And how do you deal with enchantments? There was one game where I almost won, but the other guy managed to shut me down using Glare of Subdual...

I play Unstable Obelisk and Steel Hellkite with limited success. I might also have a Scour from Existence which is becoming more popular in my mono-coloured piles.

I have played Extraplanar Lens in many, many decks. It rarely turns out well; it's usually played best when you've got a ton of land and are about to make a big play. I don't really ever expect it to stick, though that might be because I play in a fairly anti-artifact/enchantment environment.

Wheel of Fate migrated its way out of my decks a while ago. I have always felt that it was clunky, a lousy later-game topdeck, and telegraphed the future too much. It also presented unfortunate dilemmas: if too many players spent too many resources in preparation of the wheel, someone might counter it and then play a boardwipe (this happened several times at my tables). If you invest too little, it has impact that could be gotten from something that takes less than 4 turns to realize. It was in because red draw is red draw, but there's so much better stuff now that it's largely relegated out.

I haven't played blinkmoth urn, but I think it needs to live in a deck that's truly explosive for it to be worthwhile; I mean like 8+ artifacts on the table.

Quote from Zygous »

But you say you're having trouble in a group that doesn't have game-ending combos. It's a good idea to look at your deck and see if changing a few cards could help things. Shu Yun should be one of generals most afraid of facing Jaya;she comes down the same turn as him and can kill him at will. Just playing a Maze of Ith can really help vs big boys like Xenegod and Realm Seekers.

Quote from Mercury01 »

Glacial Chasm is pretty cheap, too.

I play Chasm (because I feel like it's really good with Jaya and a way to keep Jaya alive, like a protection from red sword or Darksteel Plate). I often use it to stall, but, I find I just pay out life until I lose. People always seem to have answers for Jaya.

I could also play Maze of Ith and/or Mystifying Maze. I don't know; it always feels like I'm doing it wrong in some way; short on mana, short on cards, or short on effective answers.

For reference, my current list is below. I know there are some kinks to work out (Inferno Titan isn't really pulling its weight, and some of the odd choices are still in the testing phase, like Hanweir Garrison)

So, I wanted to ask you guys. Do you win with Jaya much?

I'm finding that she really lags behind the rest of my playgroup in terms of power. I win sometimes with Godo or a Phoenix and a Sword, or sometimes I'll eke out wins with Jaya's third ability or Blasphemous Act and Repercussion, but more often than not, I see some creature Jaya can't easily answer (that the rest of my deck is also ill-equipped to handle) and I just lose to it. Things like a fourth turn Realm Seekers, or someone playing Xenagos, God of Revels and creatures (not even something like Scourge of the Throne, which can pretty much kill you in the same turn with Xenagos). Or, someone's Shu Yun deck with a pile of instants.

My group is pretty casual; we generally eschew most game-ending combos, and usually we can answer each other's threats, but... it feels lacking in Jaya. Like, I'll be able to answer small durdles, but when it comes to 'real' threats, I'm just grasping at straws.

Anyone else finding that their Jaya deck underperforms?

1)

Jaya
Mountain
Mountain
Mountain
Mountain

2.

Ibid.

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Okay, my non-cheeky answer is that it strongly depends on the environment you play in. If you play in a mega-ramp area, you might need doublers first. If you play in a control-long-game area, phoenixes and card draw options are more important.

Quote from Zygous »

Quote from Sinis »

Now that it's been out for a little while, have many people had much experience with Kozilek, the Great Distortion? I felt like he was the perfect mix of dire threat, control-options and card draw for Jaya, but I haven't actually been able to table my copy.

Old post but nobody had a good answer.

As with any card, I think the best policy is to try it yourself in your own deck and see if it performs the way you want it to. Keep it in your deck and see how it goes.

I found Kozi to be pretty poorly positioned in my own deck. Just too much had to go right for him to be a good card.

I needed to be low on cards in hand, which is something I'm already building my deck to avoid happening. I needed CC in my manabase, which is something that is not guanteed and actually very possible to not have. I also needed him to be relevant once in play, I felt he was too often able to be chumped easily or would just eat a removal spell when I didn't have a card of the same cost in hand. I just couldn't get him to work for me, but you should still try him out.

I just got an Emrakul, the Promised End that I am trying out in my deck atm. Haven't been able to cast it yet, but it's worth noting that the card has some fun synergy with Stranglehold.

Certainly; I just haven't drawn him. I play commander maybe once a week to every two weeks, and I have a lot of decks, so actually seeing Kozilek show up is not common. It's not like I plan on discounting my own experience in favour of the tales of others.

Quote from Weebo »

Friendly reminder to anyone with even moderately expensive cards that double sleeving decks is worthwhile. I had a friend spill coffee at my deck this afternoon, which could have ended very badly. No damage aside from some very, very slight discoloration on the edge of Gamble (literally just a tiny spot on the top edge, not even the face of the card), but it's definitely going to make me a little more careful in the future.

This is the stuff of nightmares for me. I have a sliver deck with full revised duals, and people even having drinks at the table gives me the heebie-jeebies. I also have a lot of classic cards like The Abyss and Mana Drain in my decks, and sometimes I wonder if I should just liquidate everything before they get liquid-ruined.

I had it happen once before with another CCG; and I had to cut the sleeves to get the cards out...

Now that it's been out for a little while, have many people had much experience with Kozilek, the Great Distortion? I felt like he was the perfect mix of dire threat, control-options and card draw for Jaya, but I haven't actually been able to table my copy.

Quote from jenncertainty »

Have you tested Avacyn's Judgment at all? I run a list that was heavily inspired by yours and I recently added the card to test, though I haven't actually drawn it enough to know how well it works.

I have not. It doesn't seem like it fits in Jaya, because her abilities typically already do what you would want Avacyn's Judgment to do. Looting effects make it more attractive, but not attractive enough to play it.

I also think it runs counter to the theory of Jaya (or, at least, how I envision Jaya in gameplay): skimp on creature removal in the maindeck and rely on Jaya to take care of most of it. Instead of creature removal, we run more resilient threats, answers to non-creatures, etc.

That said, I could probably use more kill in my Jaya deck, so it's deffo a consideration. People do squish her often, and sometimes I need the creature removal when she's out to lunch.

Quote from Weebo »

I like Avarice Amulet, but I don't think I like it in Jaya. She already eats a lot of removal in my experience, so making her a more attractive target seems questionable. That and you really can't take advantage of the combat buffs because she's pretty fragile despite all of the explosions.

You know, I was thinking about this today; Jaya isn't actually fragile for the purposes of Avarice Amulet. She never 'dies', in the game sense. She always goes to the command zone. With that in mind, it'd be fairly uncommon for Avarice Amulet to trigger and end up under someone else's control.

Quote from Myrmadillo »

A friend recently gave me a Duplicant. It seems like an outstanding card for Jaya since it's a way to handle large and indestructible creatures (e.g., Ulamog, Darksteel and Blightsteel Colossi, etc.) that would otherwise be problematic. However, it doesn't look like many people are running this is their list. Is there some down side I'm missing?

Your assessment is correct (it's also an out to Iona, Shield of Emeria).

My excuse is that I only have two copies, and they're just in other decks.

Quote from Myrmadillo »

Commune with Lava is on my wants list, I just haven't picked it up yet.

For a bulk rare, it's really playable. It also supports a draw-go mentality, which I kind of like.

Sandstone Oracle is on my maybe list, but it's hard to calculate how many cards you'll get out of it. On the plus side, if you have it in hand you cast your remaining cards quickly and then play it for maximum effect.

Certainly. There are other angles with this card though; I run Trading Post and Welder, so it's possible that it could do much more than you'd expect. That in mind, my list is not budget, and it might get edged out by better cards.

I used to play Wild Guess/Tormenting Voice, but didn't find them worthwhile. I posted my thoughts here.

I don't disagree with your assessment that they can be lackluster. I have since started playing Crucible in my deck, so, you might be right about them not being worthwhile if you don't have enough recursion capabilities.

My deck also runs a lot of mana rocks that can turn into cards when not needed anymore: Mindstone, Commander's Sphere, Hedron Archive, Dreamstone Hedron. Dreamstone Hedron is is actually one of the most efficient budget card draw options Red has available.

Mindstone is classic, I run it as well. Has Dreamstone Hedron worked out well? Have you tapped it for mana much? I've played it a little bit in other decks (I have a Sharuum robots deck), but it hasn't been great to me; it just costs so much mana that Tower of Fortunes might be the better alternative. At 6 mana producing 3, it's not really 'acceleration', and I've found the costs kind of clunky where if I sacrifice the Dreamstone Hedron, I'm not doing much else that turn, but if I don't, I have an abundance of mana but not necessarily any cards to use that mana on. I'm intrigued to hear about Hedron Archive too, which I feel must be much more manageable/effective in both acceleration and draw departments.