Leyline of Sanctity is like a white Blood Moon, it can 'win' a good number of matchups on its own (Burn, Titanshift, Storm, Ad Nauseam), and give some trouble to others, but I don't think you really need it in Hatebears.
I wouldn't run Scavenging Ooze in the board. It's a good and flexible card, maindeckable. If you want GY hate, use Rest in Peace
Also, why Spellskite?
these are my suggestions:
-3 Dryad Militant
+1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Thalia
+1 Horizon Canopy
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It is not a popular deck and it won't be. It's a fair deck that just drops bears and wants to interact with your opponent's card, that's why it's called hatebears and not aggrobears . It doesn't have as much 'oops I win' hands as other decks, even other fair decks like classic Jund/Abzan can go Thoughtseize into Tarmogoyf into Liliana and wreck a bad matchup. The cards are weaker in a vacuum. This is a very Legacy-esque deck, in the way you can't just pick it and hope to crush a tournament. It rewards deep knowledge of the metagame and how to interact with it.
Take Wescoe as an example, the guys love to play WW and had good tournament results with Hatebears, and you have some players doing well in SCG opens and somebody in this very thread had success in MOL a lot with it (I don't recall your name, sorry mate).
It's a very rewarding deck, and you can outplay people not knowing your cards/interaction. If you are into the Aggro-Disruption kind of deck, this is for you. I'd rather jam some control or combo deck, but I enjoy this archetype too.
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What are good cards to use against elves and other wide fast decks? Affinity also gives my deck trouble!
Engineered Explosives is good vs Affinity, Elves, Merfolk, Bogles, and other random aggro decks. Affinity is not a good matchup, you need to use your Ghost Quarter on their Nexi, Path the dudes you can't handle (Dromoka's Command works here too), surprise their fliers with Mindcensor, Gryff and even Stirring Wildwood. And obv, Stony Silence is really, really good.
Hatebears is a metagame deck, you can tune it to face anything... It's always a good option, but a fair one (it's just a bunch of bears)
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I'm prepping for GP Indy right now and it is my first GP I'm competing in the main event. I've been pretty successful playing hatebears over the last 8 months and have taken down a couple tournaments that resulted me having a two round bye for Indy. Any help with the deck is welcome!!!
Looks pretty solid to me but I would probably swap the Selfless Spirit with Kitchen Finks since it's not as strong and only shines against sweepers. I would also remove Kataki, War's Wage in favor of a third Stony Silence because, in my experience, it doesn't hit as hard.
Agree with this, and I would also run some Choke in the board (it looks like I'm a Choke salesman ). Also, maybe 4 Voice is too many if you need to make room for something else. Maybe you could swap 1 Horizon Canopy for a Brushland if you are taking too much damage
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Is this deck adjusted to you local meta? It seems untuned to me (or very tuned for a special meta). Here are some of my thoughts / questions about the deck:
What's the reason that you don't play Noble Hierarch (or other manadorks)? One reason to play green is the access to mana acceleration.
If you don't play manadorks why don't you go mono white (death and taxes) with vial?
24 lands seems a lot:
- 3 Stirring Wildwood can slow you down too much and is only good in grindy matchups.
- Only 1 Gavony Township and no Tectonic Edge? Would add at least 1 of these.
- 4 Horzion Canopys are too much, there is so much aggro running around that it will kill you. Even with 3 Canopy's I had the experience that it caused more game loses than wins. 1-2 seems perfect to me.
- What's the reason that you play Judge's Familiar and Dryad Militant?
Your sideboard might be improved, the cards are very dedicated against specific matchups (if it's adjusted to your local meta, it's fine, but against an open meta I would add more versatile cards):
- Qasali Pridemage is more a maindeck card, pretty versatile, exalted and a body on it's own, but not good enough to fill sideboard slots with it, since there are cards, which are better against artifacts or enchantments.
- Kataki, war's wage is good against affinity, but a card like Stony Silence is better against different kind of decks (Tron, Affinity, Lantern Control, Ad Nauseam).
- Phyrexian Revoker isn't that great in modern since he can be removed so easily. I would rather play Pithing Needle (can also hit lands like Celestial Colonade).
- Melira is for the Infect matchup? I would replace her with Spellskite, since Spellskite offers more diversity (Infect, Affinity, Burn etc.)
- Sigarada is against Jund/ Junk? This matchup should be already good or against which decks do you want her?
- What I am missing here is some graveyard hate, since dredge is getting more and more popular and cards like Rest in Peace are also great against other matchups (Jund, Living End).
Just what came into my mind.
Agree with Slapa. Regarding Kataki, I would only SB it if I'm also playing Collected Company.
I would also add:
-Play the full Loxodon Smiter set. The abilities are relevant in a lot of situations, and when they aren't it's a really fast clock
-Consider Choke for your SB, it ranges between OK and GG vs blue decks. It helps against Merfolk too! (a not so good matchup)
-No Noble Hierarch? If you are having a hard time getting them, play Birds of Paradise in that slot. It does a fine impression, but the the Exalted matters
-Engineered Explosives in the SB could be a good catch-all card
-Dromoka's Command is maindeck worthy, and has aplications in a wide array of matchups
If you prefer those 1 drops in your deck, maybe a mono white build would suit your playstyle better.
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I'm starting off playing Hatebears, and thinking of using your decklist above as some sort of reference to what I want to put together.
How do you feel about Kitching Fings and Aven Mindcensor as a 4 off added to this list?
Hatebears is a context deck. If you expect to face Zoo, Burn, Merfolk or even something like Jund, Kitchen Finks is a good call. Mindcensor shines against Company (it was better with Pod in place of Collected Company, but still does some work), Scapeshift and Tron. Regardless, 4 may be a little too much. The only cards I would always play 4-off in the maindeck are Path to Exile, Noble Hierarch and Loxodon Smiter. Everything else depends on the metagame.
I like slapa's decklist, but I wouldn't play more than 1 Dismember in the 75.
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And remember that if they want to flashback it (if it has flashback now, or it is a card with flashback like Faithless Looting), the card is no longer in the graveyard (it's in the stack), and you can't exile it. I hope I explained it right
Different is the situation with unearth (like Hellspark Elemental), because it's an activated ability and goes to the stack (flashback is an alternative cost)
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The card advantage engine I've had mild sucess with recently is [c]Hermit of the NatterKnolls [\c]. His synergy with Voice is actually not half bad, and the two effectively create a pseudo "Play only on your turn" style, which can make removal become iffy. The moment he flips he's out of bolt range, which is nice, and his CA doubles.
I've been debating about potentially going more white in the base and trying to create a deck that forces my opponents to play only on their turn, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Something like Vial, Turn 2 Grand Abolisher+Vial in Dryad, turn 3 Vial Arbiter, play quarters+sac, cast Thalia. Or some sort of extra hatey deck.
Of course, this depends on me being able to get Vials soon for a decent price, as they're like $60 here.
Hermit of the NatterKnolls seems really, really bad. Dies to Bolt 1x1, cost 3, and has mediocre stats (and can be played around). I have said this before, but I will say it again: if you are playing control against a ~30 creature deck with Vial, Smiter and Voice, counterspells are bad and removal is good (and sweepers are better). Expect removal and sweepers from Jeskai and Grixis, not counterspells. If you are going to resolve a 2G card against control, make sure it's Choke.
Vialing a Dryad Arbor only happens 0.0000000000073% of the time (I did the actual calculation some pages back), and getting your land drop bolted is terrible. Dryad arbor is used with fetchlands against Liliana in Bogles, Infect, and maybe some other deck, and as a target of Demonic Dread in Living End. Don't try to force it in Hatebears. When we get a new primer, this should be on it
If you want an engine, play Collected Company. It's good against fair decks (like control or BGx)
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I wouldn't play Evolutionary Leap in the maindeck.
Regarding the CA thing, if you are looking for CA then you gotta switch colors/deck Different cards have been suggested in the last pages: Riftsweeper, Bygone Bishop, Tireless Tracker, Heartwood Storyteller. I would rather resolve a Choke than any of those cards (most of them at the same cmc). It has more chances of winning the game on its own, and it doesn't die to the removal that they are going to point against our ~30 creatures. This isn't GW aggro, this is Hatebears. We get to play some really high-impact, unfair cards (in a really fair deck) in some matchups... Cards that are really close to being game: Kor Firewalker, Choke, Stony Silence. And always play 4 Loxodon Smiter! Especially if you are having troubles against control!
@Lifebread: Why Flagstones of Trokair? Isn't a third plains better? This deck don't autolose against Blood Moon, but it can cause some troubles. Ghost Quartering yourself doens't seems like a good idea...
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If the battlefiled is crowded, you can always fly over it, force chumpblock with a large exalted dude (or a giant Scooze), or pump everything with Liege. Gavony Township is also an option.
Voice is not mediocre in a variant of the deck, but it can be mediocre in certain metagames. If you are fightning a lot of Grixis and Jund, it's great.
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Copperline Gorge? But I highly dislike what you have done with the splash I would rather be playing full midrange/3 colors than Hatebears with a minor splash (I tested something called Zoolution, you can figure out how it was).
How about Eternal Witness over Den Protector?
PS: don't you have a labor union? I'm asking seriously, I don't know how is it there in the US.
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Riftsweeper is good vs Ancestral Visions (and other suspend cards that nobody really plays besides Lotus Bloom and Rift Bolt), but that logic is card vs card. You don't win the match if they fail to resolve an AV. We need to face it as a whole. Bringing Melira may work against something like Infect (or Kor Firewalker vs Burn), but Control/Tempo decks have plenty of ways to deal with a 2/2,... and even if they don't know we side Riftsweeper, they will bring removal/sweepers to deal with our deck anyway. That's why Choke is good, it fights in another axis.
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I don't think that thopter-sword would be 'popular', at least not like eldrazi the combo falls against a lot of hate, and this deck has plenty tools to deal with it and to fight the decks that play it.
Regarding Ancestral Visions and control decks, there isn't much we can do... They are going to draw the cards, and our clock is not that fast to punish the waiting. The best thing we can do is make the cards they draw worthless. Thrun and Choke hit them hard (almost game?), Smiter, Voice, Arbiter, Scooze and Thalia give them lots of troubles. I would add Stirring Wildwood to that list. If they are less control (like Jeskai) and play more creatures (like Grixis), that means they run less removal/answers, so our goods cards hit them harder.
edit: Finks and the flyers are nice against anything controlish.
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The discard part may be flavor text, but that's because Thoughtseize/IoK and Liliana aren't good vs Hatebears on their own. Regardless, they have a hard time killing her and it's good when the table is crowded. And I would rather topdeck a Liege than a Thalia I side out Liege a lot, usually vs fast decks like Burn, Affinity and Infect (to name some popular ones).
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chupame la pija !
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I wouldn't run Scavenging Ooze in the board. It's a good and flexible card, maindeckable. If you want GY hate, use Rest in Peace
Also, why Spellskite?
these are my suggestions:
-3 Dryad Militant
+1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Thalia
+1 Horizon Canopy
SB:
-2 Scavenging Ooze
-3 Spellskite
-4 Leyline of Sanctity
+2 Rest in Peace
+1 Celestial Purge
+1 Blessed Alliance
+1 Creeping Corrosion
+2 Engineered Explosives
+2 Burrenton Forge Tender
Take Wescoe as an example, the guys love to play WW and had good tournament results with Hatebears, and you have some players doing well in SCG opens and somebody in this very thread had success in MOL a lot with it (I don't recall your name, sorry mate).
It's a very rewarding deck, and you can outplay people not knowing your cards/interaction. If you are into the Aggro-Disruption kind of deck, this is for you. I'd rather jam some control or combo deck, but I enjoy this archetype too.
Engineered Explosives is good vs Affinity, Elves, Merfolk, Bogles, and other random aggro decks. Affinity is not a good matchup, you need to use your Ghost Quarter on their Nexi, Path the dudes you can't handle (Dromoka's Command works here too), surprise their fliers with Mindcensor, Gryff and even Stirring Wildwood. And obv, Stony Silence is really, really good.
Hatebears is a metagame deck, you can tune it to face anything... It's always a good option, but a fair one (it's just a bunch of bears)
Agree with this, and I would also run some Choke in the board (it looks like I'm a Choke salesman ). Also, maybe 4 Voice is too many if you need to make room for something else. Maybe you could swap 1 Horizon Canopy for a Brushland if you are taking too much damage
Agree with Slapa. Regarding Kataki, I would only SB it if I'm also playing Collected Company.
I would also add:
-Play the full Loxodon Smiter set. The abilities are relevant in a lot of situations, and when they aren't it's a really fast clock
-Consider Choke for your SB, it ranges between OK and GG vs blue decks. It helps against Merfolk too! (a not so good matchup)
-No Noble Hierarch? If you are having a hard time getting them, play Birds of Paradise in that slot. It does a fine impression, but the the Exalted matters
-Engineered Explosives in the SB could be a good catch-all card
-Dromoka's Command is maindeck worthy, and has aplications in a wide array of matchups
If you prefer those 1 drops in your deck, maybe a mono white build would suit your playstyle better.
Hatebears is a context deck. If you expect to face Zoo, Burn, Merfolk or even something like Jund, Kitchen Finks is a good call. Mindcensor shines against Company (it was better with Pod in place of Collected Company, but still does some work), Scapeshift and Tron. Regardless, 4 may be a little too much. The only cards I would always play 4-off in the maindeck are Path to Exile, Noble Hierarch and Loxodon Smiter. Everything else depends on the metagame.
I like slapa's decklist, but I wouldn't play more than 1 Dismember in the 75.
Different is the situation with unearth (like Hellspark Elemental), because it's an activated ability and goes to the stack (flashback is an alternative cost)
Hermit of the NatterKnolls seems really, really bad. Dies to Bolt 1x1, cost 3, and has mediocre stats (and can be played around). I have said this before, but I will say it again: if you are playing control against a ~30 creature deck with Vial, Smiter and Voice, counterspells are bad and removal is good (and sweepers are better). Expect removal and sweepers from Jeskai and Grixis, not counterspells. If you are going to resolve a 2G card against control, make sure it's Choke.
Vialing a Dryad Arbor only happens 0.0000000000073% of the time (I did the actual calculation some pages back), and getting your land drop bolted is terrible. Dryad arbor is used with fetchlands against Liliana in Bogles, Infect, and maybe some other deck, and as a target of Demonic Dread in Living End. Don't try to force it in Hatebears. When we get a new primer, this should be on it
If you want an engine, play Collected Company. It's good against fair decks (like control or BGx)
Regarding the CA thing, if you are looking for CA then you gotta switch colors/deck Different cards have been suggested in the last pages: Riftsweeper, Bygone Bishop, Tireless Tracker, Heartwood Storyteller. I would rather resolve a Choke than any of those cards (most of them at the same cmc). It has more chances of winning the game on its own, and it doesn't die to the removal that they are going to point against our ~30 creatures. This isn't GW aggro, this is Hatebears. We get to play some really high-impact, unfair cards (in a really fair deck) in some matchups... Cards that are really close to being game: Kor Firewalker, Choke, Stony Silence. And always play 4 Loxodon Smiter! Especially if you are having troubles against control!
@Lifebread: Why Flagstones of Trokair? Isn't a third plains better? This deck don't autolose against Blood Moon, but it can cause some troubles. Ghost Quartering yourself doens't seems like a good idea...
Voice is not mediocre in a variant of the deck, but it can be mediocre in certain metagames. If you are fightning a lot of Grixis and Jund, it's great.
How about Eternal Witness over Den Protector?
PS: don't you have a labor union? I'm asking seriously, I don't know how is it there in the US.
Regarding Ancestral Visions and control decks, there isn't much we can do... They are going to draw the cards, and our clock is not that fast to punish the waiting. The best thing we can do is make the cards they draw worthless. Thrun and Choke hit them hard (almost game?), Smiter, Voice, Arbiter, Scooze and Thalia give them lots of troubles. I would add Stirring Wildwood to that list. If they are less control (like Jeskai) and play more creatures (like Grixis), that means they run less removal/answers, so our goods cards hit them harder.
edit: Finks and the flyers are nice against anything controlish.