*Sorry, not a strictly better Diabolic Edict since you can't target yourself with Liliana's Triumph, but the point stands.
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Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Sometimes in Games 2 and/or 3, you just play a Stony Silence and a Gaddock Teeg and they literally play nothing of consequence while trying to draw to Nature's Claim. A solid amount of games against Tron are non matches - either us with no permanents in play or them with 3 Stars that can't be cracked and a hand of 7 cards.
Whir Prison is an insane deck. I have been testing it myself, although I haven't played it in tournament play yet. I feel that it's okay to hedge against them a bit if it doesn't hurt other matchups too badly. I think that even when hedging, there is only a small window for us to get the win (poor draws by them, the nuts by us, mulligans, etc.).
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Best would be Burn, Dredge, Hollow One if anyone plays that, UR Phoenix if you dodge or kill Thing in the Ice, Titanshift and Jeskai if anyone plays those, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.
Worst would be Infect, Amulet, Company decks, discard decks if you don't get Leyline or have to mulligan to non functional hands, UR Phoenix if their Thing lives. I'm probably forgetting some here too.
You forgot Tron... that, for me, is terrible, the worst match. When Karn Liberated or Ugin finally come to the battlefield... you probably will lose the game :\
Simply put, we cannot beat Ugin. That being said, if we have the nuts, super quick hand, we can beat them if they stumble on assembling Tron. I feel it's only 40/60 for us. Prison decks are often around 20% probably.
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Best would be Burn, Dredge, Hollow One if anyone plays that, UR Phoenix if you dodge or kill Thing in the Ice, Titanshift and Jeskai if anyone plays those, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.
Worst would be Infect, Amulet, Company decks, discard decks if you don't get Leyline or have to mulligan to non functional hands, UR Phoenix if their Thing lives. I'm probably forgetting some here too.
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Gaddock Teeg comes in against both because it shuts down Whir. This could strand cards in hand, allowing a few small creatures (like a Dryad Arbor) to attack through Bridge.
Stony Silence is way better against Lantern. It shuts down what they are trying to accomplish. It is pretty devastating against them. Against Whir Prison, Stony Silence does come in (for Spellskites, Welding Jar, and Engineered Explosives), but it has fewer applications. They can win without it. Actually both decks can win without it, mostly by using Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas or Ghirapur Aether Grid if they have it.
I guess Deglamer and Unravel are mostly used in response to Welding Jar. That actually seems pretty good, but I'm also scared that they can just find it later on with Whir of Invention, whereas killing it and having Rest in Peace prevents Academy Ruins bringing it back.
Leyline of Sanctity definitely comes in vs. Lantern and not Whir. It also prevent Codex Shredder, although Pyxis and Ghoulcaller's Bell don't target.
I would say against Phoenix, Rest in Peace is NOT needed. We just need to focus on the Thing in the Ice and trying to get lifelink or being able to race whatever else they have. That card is the bane of Bogles (and most decks in the format). I think we can beat 1-2 Phoenixes if they are not too early and we get early Lifelink.
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Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I figure Enlightened Tutor also won't be reprinted because it's another way to find Ensnaring Bridge. I feel that Wizards is going to be careful with that card, especially with a deck that runs 4 of those, 4 Whir of Invention, 4 Welding Jar, AND 4 SB Spellskite actually doing pretty well right now.
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm going to run Bant Bogles tomorrow at FNM using that list. If it goes well I'll let you guys know.
I appreciate it. I've always wondered about Bant Bogles in practice. I've never done it or Aura Swap, despite having all the cards. I just didn't have the guts.
One thing I'd be wary of is Thing in the Ice. It turned an easy matchup into a nightmare for us. I would like to have 4 Path to Exile and probably even 1-2 Dismember in the SB for that card. Maybe that's overdoing it since I haven't played actually played Bogles in a while, but I feel scared of it. It flipping is GG for Bogles. Scoop it up time...
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Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
You would probably have to cut Spirit Mantle or Path to Exile. I could see trying it, especially since Blood Moon is down to nearly 0 play (it's just too slow in this format). Do you have the IQ winner's list by chance?
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Hello, if it's not too much trouble, could you share your list ?, I've been playing bogles for a few months, but lately I do not get good results, I'd like to know yours to see what changes I could make. Thanks in advance.
I haven't played Bogles in a bit, but I think it would still be pretty solid.
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I realize that Kor Spiritdancer lets cards "come alive" for opponents with those types of cards, but it can be worse without Kor Spiritdancers. We need that card to beat tough matchups that have no interaction like Ad Nauseam, KCI, and Storm. We need the turn 3-4 clock. Also against decks with removal, we can often stick a Totem Armor on Spiritdancer to make it tougher to kill because our opponent has to use mana to answer the Bogle. Sure, there are always hands that have only Spiritdancer and winning those in some matchups is a "fool's errand," but the card is necessary in Bogles.
I think we've all been there with Bogles. There's always frustrating moments with the deck, especially those moments in highly favored matchups where the deck just...fails. I think no matter how much I played Bogles, the highest percentage that I could get with the deck is high 60s. Most other decks that I could have mastered, I'm pretty sure I would be in the 70% range, but this deck just has...variance.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'll most likely be playing Sneak Show. I just started playing the deck about 6 months ago (only play tested so far; no tournaments ), but the deck seems super right for me. Griselbrand and Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn are my jam. I would consider BR Reanimator, but I don't think it's as consistent as Sneak Show.
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Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I feel like we're potentially pretty strong in the meta. We have good matchups vs. Dredge, Humans, Spirits, and Burn. Big mana is making a come back (and I myself am on Titanshift and Amulet Titan right now), so that can be bad in the case of Amulet or 50/50 in the case of Titanshift. I feel like UW Control is okay for us, but many hate the matchup. I guess it comes down to speed and Gaddock Teeg. I feel like Storm and KCI are played less and that's probably good for us. Jund is going up a bit and that's bad for us, but I also think Tron has been going down in play.
Sorry for the jumbled thoughts, but just trying to think of everything that I noticed. Keep in mind that I am pretty busy right now, so I am only playing at FNM and the occasional GP (or SCG Las Vegas coming up, although I may be our Legacy player).
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
With Dredge gaining in popularity, what does our matchup look like against it? Any changes to the main board or side board?
Our matchup seemingly should be good. The reason I say this is that I actually haven't played against it much. I think I'm 3-1 against it, but this was with GGT. You could go up to 3 Rest in Peace if you're scared and probably 1 more life gain card main like a 2nd Spirit Link or Unflinching Courage. The only reason I bring up Courage is that a friend who I loan Bogles to for FNM wanted 1 more life gain card after losing to Burn. The Burn opponent was the same one I beat the week before, so I think he just had luckier draws (4 Goblin Guide in 1 game and Deflecting Palm in the other).
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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I don't think someone will side that in vs. Bogles since it only gets the Slippery Bogle. Hopefully we have Gladecover Scout suited up instead, lol.
Here I thought we would have to wait for Modern Horizons to print Council's Judgement and either Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edict. A strictly better Diabolic Edict? Damn, Wizards!
*Sorry, not a strictly better Diabolic Edict since you can't target yourself with Liliana's Triumph, but the point stands.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Whir Prison is an insane deck. I have been testing it myself, although I haven't played it in tournament play yet. I feel that it's okay to hedge against them a bit if it doesn't hurt other matchups too badly. I think that even when hedging, there is only a small window for us to get the win (poor draws by them, the nuts by us, mulligans, etc.).
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Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
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Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Simply put, we cannot beat Ugin. That being said, if we have the nuts, super quick hand, we can beat them if they stumble on assembling Tron. I feel it's only 40/60 for us. Prison decks are often around 20% probably.
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Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Worst would be Infect, Amulet, Company decks, discard decks if you don't get Leyline or have to mulligan to non functional hands, UR Phoenix if their Thing lives. I'm probably forgetting some here too.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Stony Silence is way better against Lantern. It shuts down what they are trying to accomplish. It is pretty devastating against them. Against Whir Prison, Stony Silence does come in (for Spellskites, Welding Jar, and Engineered Explosives), but it has fewer applications. They can win without it. Actually both decks can win without it, mostly by using Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas or Ghirapur Aether Grid if they have it.
I guess Deglamer and Unravel are mostly used in response to Welding Jar. That actually seems pretty good, but I'm also scared that they can just find it later on with Whir of Invention, whereas killing it and having Rest in Peace prevents Academy Ruins bringing it back.
Leyline of Sanctity definitely comes in vs. Lantern and not Whir. It also prevent Codex Shredder, although Pyxis and Ghoulcaller's Bell don't target.
I would say against Phoenix, Rest in Peace is NOT needed. We just need to focus on the Thing in the Ice and trying to get lifelink or being able to race whatever else they have. That card is the bane of Bogles (and most decks in the format). I think we can beat 1-2 Phoenixes if they are not too early and we get early Lifelink.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Which Enchantress are you talking about? Argothian Enchantress? Verduran Enchantress?
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Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I appreciate it. I've always wondered about Bant Bogles in practice. I've never done it or Aura Swap, despite having all the cards. I just didn't have the guts.
One thing I'd be wary of is Thing in the Ice. It turned an easy matchup into a nightmare for us. I would like to have 4 Path to Exile and probably even 1-2 Dismember in the SB for that card. Maybe that's overdoing it since I haven't played actually played Bogles in a while, but I feel scared of it. It flipping is GG for Bogles. Scoop it up time...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)1 Snow Covered Forest
1 Snow Covered Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Temple Garden
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Kor Spiritdancer
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Spider Umbra
2 Hyena Umbra
2 Cartouche of Solidarity
1 Spirit Link
3 Spirit Mantle
1 Gryff's Boon
4 Daybreak Coronet
3 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Nature's Claim
1 Seal of Primordium
I haven't played Bogles in a bit, but I think it would still be pretty solid.
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Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I think we've all been there with Bogles. There's always frustrating moments with the deck, especially those moments in highly favored matchups where the deck just...fails. I think no matter how much I played Bogles, the highest percentage that I could get with the deck is high 60s. Most other decks that I could have mastered, I'm pretty sure I would be in the 70% range, but this deck just has...variance.
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Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Sorry for the jumbled thoughts, but just trying to think of everything that I noticed. Keep in mind that I am pretty busy right now, so I am only playing at FNM and the occasional GP (or SCG Las Vegas coming up, although I may be our Legacy player).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Our matchup seemingly should be good. The reason I say this is that I actually haven't played against it much. I think I'm 3-1 against it, but this was with GGT. You could go up to 3 Rest in Peace if you're scared and probably 1 more life gain card main like a 2nd Spirit Link or Unflinching Courage. The only reason I bring up Courage is that a friend who I loan Bogles to for FNM wanted 1 more life gain card after losing to Burn. The Burn opponent was the same one I beat the week before, so I think he just had luckier draws (4 Goblin Guide in 1 game and Deflecting Palm in the other).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)