people like you is whats make mods close threads. Coming and trolling with troll / budget builds, claiming them to be good. and then keep arguing with "stats" from tournaments where everyone runs tier 2 decks at best. fact is: ive tested all the stuff suggested. Got over 1000+ matches recorded with mill. all you do is wind people up with all the ***** youre posting in every thread really. If i could i would get this thread closed and get a new one opened so we could get rid of all these budget casual lists that are terrible even on the kitchen table. this way we could get a proper primer as well instead of the inaccurate crap this has.
With the amount of available Fetches and Ghost Quarters, + Paths, Trap does work for you easily. I have used 2 on my first turn when I GQ. Foe scooped that game.
Stony Silence is for those affinity decks which seem to be really good? But yeah, I questioned why no Hurkyl's Recall but didn't want to touch on it.
Remand by the by, puts it back in hand, the foe can re-cast that spell. And it ups their Prowess and Storm triggers? I don't know much about storm honestly but if it works how I think it does. At the very best you can Remand a spell, then Surgical Extract it before they can replay it.
Oboro only triggers crab, correct. I haven't yet used it so I can't say for certain that it works well. Maybe it has to be more than a 1-of.
What is the record with it at Modern events?
remand does not work that way. the countered spell gets returned to your hand from the stack. and i said oboro instead of shrine and i even explained to you why. anywho im not gonna bother anymore. there seems to be no one here who actually knows how to play competetive magic, that writes in this thread anymore. its sad to see. ill pay some attention here again when something new comes out. till then ill only browse here when i feel like a laughing at people trying to convince each other that their casual decks are tier1 decks in a competetive format.
Helping out a friend here. He has always been convinced he would be the guy to make Modern Mill playable in a large meta game, but he has never wanted to sign up for any sort of MTG Forum. He asked if I could post his list and tell him what advice other mill players had for him.
-edit- He is making the change to Timely Reinforcements over Crypt Incursion, as he thinks that Incursion hurts Visions of Beyond too much.
cut jace - hes straight out bad. nearly every other card that mills is his supperior, yes even the bad ones.
im still not a fan of mind funeral - its far too random.
not sure why hes not running 4 traps? and why not 4 breaking?
remand seems a bit odd. its giving both players an extra turn - i really only find it good when you want a 3rd land for erm mind funeral? or well so you can snap something back.
would cut the godless shrine for oboro. never want a land that is not blue unless its a basic or GQ. would also up the count of GQ if possible to 3 and then maybe cut a single path off.
whats stony silence against? why is recall not just better?
edit: ive said it before though, mill is not gonna be competetive as long as burn is good and tutor decks like scapeshift / (previously) birthing pod are nonexisting/bad. its prettymuch the only time you can play mill in modern. at best if we get one more card on par with glimpse or trap its possible to play. else it isnt.
competetively: nodes could see slight play, but i still think theres lots of other cards that outshines it. rest are trash dont play them ever. you can get away with it once maybe cause no1 would expect it - then youre just gonna be THAT guy and everyone will know. online you could get away with it easier, but youd probably also get stomped harder.
casual: go for it. build that stuff. everyone loves the mill guy in casual games.
The "extra" turn you get from potentially blocking (since the low creature count if theres no crab, this is gonna take some of the saved removal in their hand) is a turn where you couldve played a card that milled. meaning in the end the result will be the same, except youre a turn later in the game. so unless youre running orbs the total effect an augur would have is whole whooping 1 mill(inform of their natural draw)+ ofc that chance if its a combo deck they will get another turn to hopefully combo off, since you didnt mill a wincon.
you have other lands as well, crab into fetch will always be better than tomb scour into fetch - oboro just gives you a permanent landdrop every turn for crabtriggers. in worst case it can make a black/white mana (from basics) to blue. but as ive stated earlier, you can GQ your own lands.
I've tested your deck (took it some pages back), and here it is how it dies so far:
1. Blood Moon
2. Aura Hexproof
I dont need you to tell me what i lose to, i know very well what kills my deck. If anything the 5-6 times ive stated it should say it, that this deck is not any good in the meta, and most likely not any other abbreviations of the deck either. Your deck might be better vs bloodmoon but it loses to everything else just as bad. if anything id say you deck has a weaker matchup in general because youre not as fast. mill as it is now is just a fun deck, not competetive in any form atm.
well you dont play neither ghost quarter nor path, so trap isnt very strong in your deck. you dont play oboro either and either youre trolling or you have no clue how much worse funeral is compared to crab. granted its bad lategame (unless you saved unfetched fetches and GQ), but what you strive to do is to win in turn 4-5 ish, and i can hardly see you ever doing that unless you hit everything on curve, or you have the best miracle funeral.
breaking is a strictly worse glimpse and is just barely playable - mind sculpt should not even be considered. im unsure about tomescour, its defo better than sculp but id still rather run both trap and crab over it any day.
Oboro is a single card. You hope to use crab only if you draw it?
you have other lands as well, crab into fetch will always be better than tomb scour into fetch - oboro just gives you a permanent landdrop every turn for crabtriggers. in worst case it can make a black/white mana (from basics) to blue. but as ive stated earlier, you can GQ your own lands.
I've tried both Archive Trap and Hedron Crab, and I've not included them because they only work if drawn in first hand. Later on lands and fetchlands have all been played for crab effect and with five mana you will never cast the trap.
well you dont play neither ghost quarter nor path, so trap isnt very strong in your deck. you dont play oboro either and either youre trolling or you have no clue how much worse funeral is compared to crab. granted its bad lategame (unless you saved unfetched fetches and GQ), but what you strive to do is to win in turn 4-5 ish, and i can hardly see you ever doing that unless you hit everything on curve, or you have the best miracle funeral.
breaking is a strictly worse glimpse and is just barely playable - mind sculpt should not even be considered. im unsure about tomescour, its defo better than sculp but id still rather run both trap and crab over it any day.
this is the list ive tested previously to be the best. some of the stuff is argueable in numbers, but roughly this is what you would want to run. in the new meta coming about, i think i would run leylines in sb though.
Are you seeing the games going long enough on average to use Snappy? It just seems like his efficiency doesn't start to really shine until you are in turn 6+.
As i stated earlier, i dont think this deck is even close to being good atm, without pod and scapeshift to prey upon, theres barely a matchup which is in our favour, a best would maybe be the new collected abzan. Also as long as burn seems to go unpunished people are playing more leylines which also makes the deck suffer. Im still waiting for WOC to print a new stable for the deck.
The discussion about whether to run snaps or not is a bit either fan or you hate them. i personally never wanted more than 2, since as you mention they arent good early, earliest they can path a second time in turn 3, but i find that the occational flashback to be very usefull, and sometimes its what makes it push it just over the edge. But in theory if you had another millcard instead you would maybe have won anyway, the thing is you can choose which of the previously run spells you want to use, whether you want to do removal mill or drawcards basically.
on another note i think i would make some small changes to my deck. Every now and then ive put mind funeral in the MB to see, if NOW is the time its good, or the fact that no better mill card is out. but everytime its unimpressive and rarely does it fill up the quota of milling 4 per mana invested as an absolute minimum. ive never milled less than 6, but never milled more than 17 - avaragely i think its about 10-11, which is just an inconsistant glimpse but for 1 mana more. Think id even play mesmeric orb over it, despite the heavy flow of lingering souls.
remand does not work that way. the countered spell gets returned to your hand from the stack. and i said oboro instead of shrine and i even explained to you why. anywho im not gonna bother anymore. there seems to be no one here who actually knows how to play competetive magic, that writes in this thread anymore. its sad to see. ill pay some attention here again when something new comes out. till then ill only browse here when i feel like a laughing at people trying to convince each other that their casual decks are tier1 decks in a competetive format.
cut jace - hes straight out bad. nearly every other card that mills is his supperior, yes even the bad ones.
im still not a fan of mind funeral - its far too random.
not sure why hes not running 4 traps? and why not 4 breaking?
remand seems a bit odd. its giving both players an extra turn - i really only find it good when you want a 3rd land for erm mind funeral? or well so you can snap something back.
would cut the godless shrine for oboro. never want a land that is not blue unless its a basic or GQ. would also up the count of GQ if possible to 3 and then maybe cut a single path off.
whats stony silence against? why is recall not just better?
edit: ive said it before though, mill is not gonna be competetive as long as burn is good and tutor decks like scapeshift / (previously) birthing pod are nonexisting/bad. its prettymuch the only time you can play mill in modern. at best if we get one more card on par with glimpse or trap its possible to play. else it isnt.
disenchant, leyline, wear / tear, erase, stony silence, hide / seek, ghostly prison, hallowed moonlight.
any general hate cards that doesnt distrupt your own plan like thalia would for instance.
competetively: nodes could see slight play, but i still think theres lots of other cards that outshines it. rest are trash dont play them ever. you can get away with it once maybe cause no1 would expect it - then youre just gonna be THAT guy and everyone will know. online you could get away with it easier, but youd probably also get stomped harder.
casual: go for it. build that stuff. everyone loves the mill guy in casual games.
I dont need you to tell me what i lose to, i know very well what kills my deck. If anything the 5-6 times ive stated it should say it, that this deck is not any good in the meta, and most likely not any other abbreviations of the deck either. Your deck might be better vs bloodmoon but it loses to everything else just as bad. if anything id say you deck has a weaker matchup in general because youre not as fast. mill as it is now is just a fun deck, not competetive in any form atm.
you have other lands as well, crab into fetch will always be better than tomb scour into fetch - oboro just gives you a permanent landdrop every turn for crabtriggers. in worst case it can make a black/white mana (from basics) to blue. but as ive stated earlier, you can GQ your own lands.
well you dont play neither ghost quarter nor path, so trap isnt very strong in your deck. you dont play oboro either and either youre trolling or you have no clue how much worse funeral is compared to crab. granted its bad lategame (unless you saved unfetched fetches and GQ), but what you strive to do is to win in turn 4-5 ish, and i can hardly see you ever doing that unless you hit everything on curve, or you have the best miracle funeral.
breaking is a strictly worse glimpse and is just barely playable - mind sculpt should not even be considered. im unsure about tomescour, its defo better than sculp but id still rather run both trap and crab over it any day.
As i stated earlier, i dont think this deck is even close to being good atm, without pod and scapeshift to prey upon, theres barely a matchup which is in our favour, a best would maybe be the new collected abzan. Also as long as burn seems to go unpunished people are playing more leylines which also makes the deck suffer. Im still waiting for WOC to print a new stable for the deck.
The discussion about whether to run snaps or not is a bit either fan or you hate them. i personally never wanted more than 2, since as you mention they arent good early, earliest they can path a second time in turn 3, but i find that the occational flashback to be very usefull, and sometimes its what makes it push it just over the edge. But in theory if you had another millcard instead you would maybe have won anyway, the thing is you can choose which of the previously run spells you want to use, whether you want to do removal mill or drawcards basically.
on another note i think i would make some small changes to my deck. Every now and then ive put mind funeral in the MB to see, if NOW is the time its good, or the fact that no better mill card is out. but everytime its unimpressive and rarely does it fill up the quota of milling 4 per mana invested as an absolute minimum. ive never milled less than 6, but never milled more than 17 - avaragely i think its about 10-11, which is just an inconsistant glimpse but for 1 mana more. Think id even play mesmeric orb over it, despite the heavy flow of lingering souls.