Has anybody tried Commit // Memory over Set Adrift out of the side. Two mana less vs the hard cast, give us more time to mill the card away or can be used as a counter. Memory would never be cast but commit seems decent.
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Quartz, I am not locked into some of the auxiliary cards like bridge, push or even the rav trap. I was playing thought scour for a while, so I may still play around Visions.
One of the shops I used to play in had a lot of nahiri decks with very few creatures and emrikul, even one guy siding 2 copies of gaea's blessing just to stop mill. I do not like the idea of a game 1 auto loss and crypt incursion just did not do enough, thus my like for ravenous trap.
In the mana leak vs remand debate, it all depends on mana availability, cmc of card, and mesmeric orb. The tempo/draw of remand is nice with higher cmc with orb in play. Mana leak is good early but not as much later.
Dosequiguy, I also have never even brought in Mindbreak, I just got them and with the snares i may only need the one out of the board or even one rav in the main. I did not really think about that as I was retooling.
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For Storm I have the mindbreak traps. I would not say I missed surgical vs tron but I am thinking if fitting 2 in the side. Go wide decks, damnation is good, so is crypt incursion. I gain 51 life off of incursion vs the monogreen deck I faced.
I agree that JVP needs to build around to survive. In another on demand event I was joined I faced another mill deck with Search for Azcanta. Mill mirror he had no issues flipping it and it did filter cards for him really well but I am not sure about it in the long run. I would run Azcanta over JVP cause I like what Azcanta can do and it is a little harder to remove.
No idea about 8 rack
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I have been hot and cold on visions. Yes Ancestral recall is amazing, but at the same time I do not want cards in hand with bridge. I elected for more mill cards with the full play sets of all the heavy hitters. I also get a lot of incidental mill with the 4 orbs and 4 sanity and the ipnu rivlet won me a few games just being there from the beginning of the game. I do not think I cast fatal push once the whole day, so I could switch that out to give Visions another try and see.
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My lose was to eldrazi tron where I drew 2 lands game 1 and only lands game 2. I beat Grixis Deathshadow, Affinity and Monogreen +1/+1 counter deck. Mind Funeral, Mesmeric Orb, and Fraying Sanity were all stars. Field of Ruin was a definite upgrade for this deck from Ghost Quarter. The biggest thing I like about it is the fact it replaces itself on the battle field. Over all, I think things are looking up.
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I have played 2 Ravenous Trap in my main for a while and really liked it. My meta had a few dredge players and the occasional living end or nahiri. I have also found that ravenous works well vs snapcaster, tasiger and the zombie fish.
I have had the total opposite with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile once my opp knows I am on mill with Archive trap. I have had more opps elect to be down a land then risk a trap. So something that is not a may search I am very interested in.
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I think the flexibility of being able to destroy artifacts is important, maybe even more important than enchantments, though Leyline and Blood Moon both mean problems for us. Fragmentize lets you do either, and it comes in for more matchups than Demystify would without too much of a drawback.
Overall what artifact are we afraid of. There are some match-up specific ones like Pentad Prism or Lotus Bloom but other than those what artifacts do we care about? I am not trying to sound attacking but I am just curious.
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The best card for that, actually, is Altar of the Brood. It's more an EDH trick to stop Top.
I've often wondered if Mill could use Brood. Oboro as a land guarantees you will always have at least 1 land to play per turn. Ultimately, Mill just does not have enough permanents. I'd love to make a deck that does.
I have a different question for the void. I know we all have issues with the opening hand Leyline of Sanctity what about using demystify for esper builds? One mana, instant speed removal for any enchantment, better then Fragmentize faster then disenchant.
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i like Settle the Wreckage, the idea the instant speed mass kill and search. If they search 2 things could happen. Less lands in the deck to make mind funeral better and turning on archive trap.
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I like Mind Funeral cause taking 4 lands away depending on the deck is very good. The one issue with it is that it can be inconsistent/unreliable. Breaking // Entering is always 8 cards every time.
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though yes bribery is fun and major style points......5 cmc is tooo high to make sure you do not waste spells. Hide // Seek is 2cmc much better and hey.....15 life boost......always good
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How can I deal against an Emrakul. If I cast a Crypt Incursion or an Extirpate in response could it works?
I play an UB mill deck.
Regards.
I use ravenous trap as it exiles the whole gy where crypt only exile the creatures and extirpate/surgical only gets rid of the reshufflers but the reshuffle trigger still happens and still undoes most of what you have done so far. Think of it as life gain vs burn.
Gets to delerium sometimes with 6 card types in the deck. I never count on archive trap to hit, great when it does, a great gatcha moment. The ravenous trap helps deal with the graveyard reshufflers and can mess with dredge or living end. Crypt incursion also does that but will allow the non-creatures to get shuffled back in. Surgical effects only get rid of the one card and all copies will not stop the reset. Though it is really hard to argue with his results, 42nd and in top 8 contention through round 12.
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I do not think that Set adrift is a bad answer if you can partner it will a mill spell that same turn. I would not use it with Manic Scribe due to it killing off your delirium. I have been testing Commit // Memory with mixed results. It is slower to cast but gives you an extra turn to mill it away and of course NEVER casting memory
Commit becomes a pretty hard removal when you've got an Orb in play for sure. In the same vein, Unexpectedly Absent does almost the same thing (not spells) for half the cost, but WW is kind of a dealbreaker I think.
Also if you are running white already you have the better enchantment removal
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CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
One of the shops I used to play in had a lot of nahiri decks with very few creatures and emrikul, even one guy siding 2 copies of gaea's blessing just to stop mill. I do not like the idea of a game 1 auto loss and crypt incursion just did not do enough, thus my like for ravenous trap.
In the mana leak vs remand debate, it all depends on mana availability, cmc of card, and mesmeric orb. The tempo/draw of remand is nice with higher cmc with orb in play. Mana leak is good early but not as much later.
Dosequiguy, I also have never even brought in Mindbreak, I just got them and with the snares i may only need the one out of the board or even one rav in the main. I did not really think about that as I was retooling.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
I agree that JVP needs to build around to survive. In another on demand event I was joined I faced another mill deck with Search for Azcanta. Mill mirror he had no issues flipping it and it did filter cards for him really well but I am not sure about it in the long run. I would run Azcanta over JVP cause I like what Azcanta can do and it is a little harder to remove.
No idea about 8 rack
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
3 Field of Ruin
2 Flooded Strand
2 Ipnu Rivulet
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
Creatures
4 Hedron Crab
Spells
4 Archive Trap
4 Breaking // Entering
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Fatal Push
4 Fraying Sanity
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mesmeric Orb
4 Mind Funeral
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Trapmaker's Snare
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Damnation
3 Echoing Truth
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
2 Profane Memento
2 Set Adrift
My lose was to eldrazi tron where I drew 2 lands game 1 and only lands game 2. I beat Grixis Deathshadow, Affinity and Monogreen +1/+1 counter deck. Mind Funeral, Mesmeric Orb, and Fraying Sanity were all stars. Field of Ruin was a definite upgrade for this deck from Ghost Quarter. The biggest thing I like about it is the fact it replaces itself on the battle field. Over all, I think things are looking up.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
I have had the total opposite with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile once my opp knows I am on mill with Archive trap. I have had more opps elect to be down a land then risk a trap. So something that is not a may search I am very interested in.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Overall what artifact are we afraid of. There are some match-up specific ones like Pentad Prism or Lotus Bloom but other than those what artifacts do we care about? I am not trying to sound attacking but I am just curious.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
There are a few combo mill decks that use altar of the brood with heartless summoning and a pair of Myr Retriever among others
I have a different question for the void. I know we all have issues with the opening hand Leyline of Sanctity what about using demystify for esper builds? One mana, instant speed removal for any enchantment, better then Fragmentize faster then disenchant.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
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I use ravenous trap as it exiles the whole gy where crypt only exile the creatures and extirpate/surgical only gets rid of the reshufflers but the reshuffle trigger still happens and still undoes most of what you have done so far. Think of it as life gain vs burn.
Also if you are not running fraying sanity, using leyline of the void or rest in peace does the trick as well
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ipnu Rivulet
3 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Watery Grave
4 Archive Trap
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Ravenous Trap
4 Visions of Beyond
Sorcery
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Mind Funeral
Artifact
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mesmeric Orb
Enchantment
4 Fraying Sanity
Creatures
4 Hedron Crab
4 Manic Scribe
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Disenchant
3 Echoing Truth
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Path to Exile
1 Plains
2 Profane Memento
2 Stony Silence
Gets to delerium sometimes with 6 card types in the deck. I never count on archive trap to hit, great when it does, a great gatcha moment. The ravenous trap helps deal with the graveyard reshufflers and can mess with dredge or living end. Crypt incursion also does that but will allow the non-creatures to get shuffled back in. Surgical effects only get rid of the one card and all copies will not stop the reset. Though it is really hard to argue with his results, 42nd and in top 8 contention through round 12.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Also if you are running white already you have the better enchantment removal
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler