MTG Salvation

Quote from leon_theou

Is there any up/down on the Temples? I feel like they fit well in a control setup, but I haven't seen any discussion of them at all. My current list (which has yet to see the heat of battle as there are still a number of cards in proxy form) looks like this.

Personally I haven't given a moment's thought to running the Temples in Cruel Control. I already run four man lands and the fact that those come into play tapped has caused me trouble. Plus there's the fast lands that come into play tapped later in the game. And then you can't always afford to pay the two life for Shocks. I cannot imagine adding another set of lands that come into play tapped all the time and I wouldn't replace any of the above lands for a little Scrying. Potentially coming into play untapped or just killing people later in the game seems way better to me.

Quote from elMochaLatte

Against jund you want terminate, dreadbore, downfall, far, and devour flesh. You won't be happy with threads since we really don't want to tap out unless it's a sweeper or an ultimatum. Aside from that, the matchups you really need to worry about are tron and burn.

Yeah, I wasn't hugely worried about Jund I just realized it's fairly popular and I didn't know how to board against it haha. I didn't come across Burn and Tron tonight, which is nice.

Quote from DarkBrew

Teachings seems way too slow to me for maindeck. Not a huge fan of consume the meek either. You can bring it in sideboard for slower matchups. Just my opinion though.

I have mixed feelings on Teachings. Sometimes it's awesome and other times it is just too slow. I'm open to cutting it (and things like Consume the Meek if I do) if I find it's not pulling it's weight, but at the moment I still like it. What would you suggest trading them out for?

I'm heading to a Modern tournament today and I've heard this place sees a fair amount of Jund. I haven't played against much Jund and I was hoping to get some advice on how to sideboard against it.

Here's my list:



I'm still vacillating on the merits of Threads of Disloyalty in the sideboard. It's good against most creature decks, but I already have a solid match up against creature decks so Threads was only really considered because of the Jund matchup. However, if I side in Threads and I don't win games one and two, then they can just side their Abrupt Decays back in to nuke my Threads. Is it worth it?

Quote from Rogon

Don't think anyone mentioned this, but someone 4-0'd a MTGO Daily, congrats!

"Cruel Control by bfizz (4-0) Modern Daily #6118429 on 2013-10-23"Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (4) 3 Snapcaster Mage 1 Vendilion Clique Artifacts (1) 1 Batterskull Instants (25) 4 Cryptic Command 4 Electrolyze 4 Lightning Bolt 3 Mana Leak 3 Spell Snare 2 Think Twice 1 Consume the Meek 1 Magma Spray 1 Mystical Teachings 1 Shadow of Doubt 1 Terminate Sorceries (4) 2 Cruel Ultimatum 1 Damnation 1 Pyroclasm	Land (27) 2 Blackcleave Cliffs 1 Blood Crypt 4 Creeping Tar Pit 1 Darkslick Shores 2 Island 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Mountain 4 Scalding Tarn 2 Steam Vents 2 Sulfur Falls 2 Sunken Ruins 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 2 Watery Grave	Sideboard 1 Anger of the Gods 2 Counterflux 1 Devour Flesh 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Godo, Bandit Warlord 1 Pyroclasm 1 Rakdos Charm 1 Shatterstorm 2 Sowing Salt 1 Spellskite 1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir 2 Thoughtseize

Kudos for putting Godo, Bandit Warlord in a winning list!

This list is really similar to mine. I'm still experimenting with Steam Augury and Hero's Downfall (haven't had much Modern time lately), but my regular list looks a lot like this. One more Terminate instead of the fourth Electrolyze, a second Mystical Teachings instead of Magma Spray, a Lavaclaw Reaches instead of the fourth Creeping Tar Pit, and Dreadship Reef instead of a Sulfur Falls. My sideboard's a bit different too (although my sideboard's also hugely in flux lol).

Quote from OneShotGame

@3mag5num7: unfortunately no. i didnt put it in my 75. as i said, the modern fnms at my lgs are way bigger and more competitive than GPT's for example. people drive more than 100km for it. i didnt want to go there playtesting, i came with my (at this moment) "final" idea of the deck - and no suffer the past.

Ah. Fair enough.

Quote from OneShotGame

finally i am thinking of playing batterskull main. that could have been the answer to my problems, but i am aware that patrick chapin just shove it his sideboard after the modern GP...

I've loved having Batterskull in my mainboard. It's a must-answer threat in the mirror, it wrecks aggro, and it's by far my biggest threat outside of Cruel Ultimatum. I've only lost one game after resolving a Batterskull.

@OneShotGame: I'm assuming from the way you described your games that you never got to play Suffer the Past...

Quote from OneShotGame

guys, the modern fnm is coming and i had a tech idea some days ago, that i could not yet playtest, but i think it should be discussed here (i wanted to keep this hidden, but we are among friends here )

so, this deck has sometimes 3 problems:

- not being able to finish the game quickly although you have all the tools almost ready, but you know, there is something coming on the horizon (happens vs. melira, when reveillark looms on the battlefield and the can get their combo from the graveyard, happens vs jund when they just outvalue us, Cryptic/Scapeshift, tron...)

- we lose to much life in these early rounds, struggling to steady the game before everything we get online is too late (aggro, rdw, burn, soul sisters...)

- (more so preboard) not being able to attack the enemy's graveyard (melira, gravebased combo)

how about: suffer the past

which is also an instant!

pls, discuss this. i have not yet set up my mind. and pls not only one opinion until someone other posts some other thingy. i waited until the thread got quiet on purpose!

Funny you should mention that card. It's a pet card of mine in EDH and I was gonna test it in Cruel Control myself. It might be a little clunky, but I could see it doing some work as a one-of. Tutor it up at the right moment and watch the fireworks.

Quote from Smurfy,Lord.of.Innistrad

Hello fellow Grixis mages, new Cruel Control/Modern player here and just wanted to make a few observations.

1) Steam Augery for me has been a very good card, the main reason i've lost games is just running out of gas/not drawing Ultimatum and this helps you either just dig 5 cards closer or force your opponent to give you an ultimatum or just 4 cards.

2) Being new to the deck and a new modern player i'm still getting everything together and so played with two black suns zeniths instead of Damnation for a while and have been very impressed with how its played. It may be because my meta is very Melira Pod heavy but the -1-1 counters have been very powerful.

3) Should we be playing Remand? We win by just staying alive and then Cruel Ultimatuming our opponents until they loose the will to continue, Remand helps us get to that point.

Hello and welcome to the format and the deck.

I've been testing out Steam Augury myself and I've liked it so far. I haven't drawn it enough to have a firm opinion, but so far I've really liked being able to leave Cryptic mana open and then just draw a bunch of cards at their end step. I've been able to get what I want most of the time (barring a couple horribly unlucky four land draws lol). I've had a love-hate relationship with Think Twice since I started playing the deck. On the one hand, it's instant speed card draw and it's cheap enough that it smooths out some loose keeps at times. On the other hand, it's power level is extremely low. So far I'm liking what Steam Augury's bringing to the table. It doesn't smooth out the early game, but it does help fuel the mid and late game.

My meta only has one Melira Pod player, so Black Sun prolly wouldn't pull it's weight for me. If it's working for you though, awesome. I love the card, personally.

I'm not huge on Remand. I don't play my deck like I'm stalling until I hit an Ultimatum. I've won more games without casting Ultimatum than I have with it. I play it out like a control deck that has a backbreaking finisher in Cruel Ultimatum. If I stick it, awesome. If not, I'm fine because I'm countering and killing all their threats while getting damage in where I can with Tar Pits and Cliques and Snapcasters. I feel like Remand is better in tempo decks that are looking to buy just enough time to get a little more damage in or combo decks that just need to stall for one or two more turns while digging for their Splinter Twin or Scapeshift. I'm in it for the long game and that's not Remand's strength.

Then again, I'm still fairly new to the deck/format so I might be off lol.

On a non-SpellStick topic: Has anyone tried Venser, Shaper Savant? Four mana's an awful lot, but he can do a whole lot. He can bounce a problematic permanent (screw you, Blood Moon), can "counter" The Flying Spaghetti Monster, and can then join the Snapcaster beatdown party. Just tutor him up with Teachings and then go to work.

He might be a viable sideboard option, plus I've always loved the card lol. Anyone have any experience with him?

Quote from asheroth

So is Augur of Bolas a no go in this deck? I've been liking it but it's not at instant speed.

I haven't tested him, but I'd run Peer Through Depths if I wanted some filtering. It doesn't give you a body to throw under a Goyf, but it does dig deeper and it does so at instant speed. For me, anything I have to play at sorcery speed better be really good like Batterskull or Cruel Ultimatum. That's just me though.

Quote from absreim

Anyone thought of using the package of Steam Augury + Desperate Ravings + Rune Snag? I think Mystical Teachings isn't at its best in Grixis due to the high degree of redundancy of the cards in Grixis decks (e.g no need to run a gamut of one-of black removal like in Esper when Terminate is better than all of them in most cases).

I wanna try Steam Augury, but I'm not a fan of Desperate Ravings in this context. As a control deck there are few words that irk me as much as "random". I don't wanna lose my only counter because I wanted to dig a bit. I don't wanna lose my Terminate only to see a fatty hit the board the next turn. Yeah, I run 3 Snapcasters, but I don't wanna have to Snapcaster something that I was able to hardcast just a turn before by accident. Plus, what if I lose my Snapcaster to Ravings? That's just me though, I might be a bit of a control freak lol.

Plus, as cyceron mentioned, Rune Snag has a couple hangups in this format.

While there is a bit of redundancy, Teachings get you exactly what you want, when you want it. Yeah, you could just wait and draw into one of your 2-4 Snapcasters or you could spend a card and get it now. Most people run no more than one Clique, so if you're in need of that you can't count on drawing it in a timely fashion. Teachings gives you "more" Cliques. Need a Bolt to close out a game? Teachings. How 'bout an Electrolyze to punish a couple X/1s? Teachings. First Pyroclasm wasn't enough? Grab Consume the Meek with Teachings. I would never run more than two Teachings because it doesn't actually DO anything itself and it costs four mana, but it's a great card to have access to when you need it. Plus, if Steam Augury turns out to be a winner for this deck then having access to real instant-speed draw makes Teachings even better.

Quote from cbgirardo

To answer the rules question, yes you can respond to Reveillark's Evoke sacrifice trigger. You can also respond to its leaves the battlefield ability.

Thanks for the heads-up.

That's awesome. It gives yet another means of stopping Lark shenanigans. I run Magma Spray over Pillar of Flame because, while it can't dome someone, it can kill things at instant speed. In this instance, it can respond to Reveillark's leaves play trigger, by hitting it for two, and exiling it. Instant eff-you to Lark lol.

Mulliganing is the hardest part of Magic to learn. Lots of pros agree with me on that lol, so you're not alone. It's an especially big deal against Pod. Combo decks are particularly good at punishing bad keeps and Pod is first and foremost a combo deck.

You're sideboard's a lot like mine. Couple of things in my main are in your side and vice-versa, but we seem to have similar thoughts on what we need in Game 2 and 3.

Welcome to the forums and welcome to the deck lol. I'm new to Modern and Cruel Control as well, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be, but hey.

I was actually just thinking about Jace Beleren instead of Jace, Architect of Thought. Architect is four mana (which doesn't thrill me) and I don't like picking up $18 cards that I don't think are good enough to cost $18 haha. Baby Jace might be a cool one-of to try out.

As for your Dreadbore/Terminate conundrum. The new Hero's Downfall costs one more mana, but the versatility seems so freaking worth it to me. I plan on picking up two myself as soon as I can track someone down who's willing to get rid of theirs.

I've actually had some success against Melira Pod. I feel like our inevitability is good enough to win. Hit their turn one mana dorks like they just kicked your dog. I always try to hold a counterspell up to hit their first Birthing Pod game one and then board in two Rakdos Charm for the next game or two. Rakdos Charm is AMAZING against Pod. It nukes thier Pods, stops their combos, and keeps their Reveillark from undoing all your hard work. I also run a Shadow of Doubt main deck, so that helps every so often. Seriously, if you're not running those cards somewhere in your 75, that might be part of your problem. I don't feel like we need to answer every single one of their threats, just the most dangerous ones as well as keeping them from amassing a strong boardstate. Eventually I'm going to hit a Batterskull (which you don't run) or even just a Vendillion Clique (also not in your list, although Mulldrifter might be about as good) to start turning the tide or even an Ultimatum to really swing things in my favor.

As for dealing with Reveillark shenanigans preboard, it probably takes a bit of anticipation. When it seems like them dropping a Lark will be the biggest blowout, don't tap out. This actually brings up a question that I don't know the answer to: can you respond to Reveillark hitting the battlefield if it was Evoked? If so, that opens up a whole lot of possibilities...

My friend's also been playing Melira Pod since before I was even interested in Modern so I've got a working knowledge of the list and that might be a bigger help than I think lol.

I dunno if you're actually having trouble with Soul Sisters or if that one instance just went poorly, but a sideboard Rain of Gore is a fairly amusing way to kill them. Then again, I know next to nothing about Soul Sisters, so I'm not the most reliable.

More out of curiosity than anything else, would you mind posting your sideboard?

Quote from lucashungaro

Rune Snag is worse if you're playing Snapcaster Mage. There's also a lot of DRS and Ooze around.

Very fair. Three Snapcasters in my list and the ubiquity of Shaman and (to a lesser extent) Ooze, makes Snag seems a whole lot worse...