i understand what you mean by getting back a tiago or fulminator, but my list only runs 6 creatures in total (3 tiagos 1 vendilion clique and 2 tasigurs), so it doesnt help that much to fetch a creature from the graveyard. at the same time i feel 3 cmc for any of the two effects is just too much. if it's 2 cmc i would say it's a great card....
the BR command doesnt cut the modern power level im afraid. what's with that return a creature from your graveyard to your hand crap, isnt that supposed to be BG? change that with destroy target creature or something then it'll work better.
i bet the UB command will be something like
-pay 1 life draw a card
-target creature gets -x/-x (or return to hand)
-target player discards a card
-TARGET PLAYER PUTS THE TOP X CARDS INTO HIS GRAVEYARD
i notice some of the decks arent really solid like you've mentioned, and i did notice that out of the three decks, only 1 of them included a single copy of cruel ultimatum. now that begs a serious question, should we still employ cruel ultimatum as our wincon? or should we evolve and adapt to tasigur?
I've been using my phone since I have no internet currently but I will be at my FNM tonight testing my deck. Once I get internet, I can type up my list. But I like the idea of splashing 1 white land to play timely reinforcements in the board. Burn seems rough with this deck. And is it too crazy to play 25 lands?
not at all, i always play 25 lands and I dont find it too problematic to hit my land drops. although it occurs once in a while that i would be choked at 2 or 3 lands, majority of the time the deck runs fine
the shattering spree can be ok vs amulet of vigor as well I think, if that deck becomes popular.
Aeonsz have you tried playing a 2nd vendilion clique in the sideboard? I think it could be decent vs the combo decks like tron scapeshift amulet bloom control twin etc. I think it has enough matchups where its good enough to bring in, it seems like 3/1 flash flier with its ability is perfect for these matchups.
i do side in the second clique against tron since it's a great clock, I also like it for the fact that it takes out a threat and maybe invites either an O-stone or pyroclasm, despite the fact that they are pretty much dead cards against a control deck anyways. but then again, i really dont like the tron matchup simply because i get a feeling that doesnt matter how much hate i pack, they always have a decent chance of topdecking their way out.
haha i like shadow of doubt, i always have one in SB, I usually try to cryptic bounce their tron pieces when they cast a threat, but many times i just feel that i cant win fast enough. i mean, i cant even guarantee i can land 7 land drops on turn 7 to cast my cruel ultimatum, but they can cast emrakul on turn 7 over 50% of the time.
unfortunately i've tried pretty much all those before as my best buddy plays GR tron, sadly a turn 5 bribery doesnt rly seal the game as he can simply o-stone or karn, which combined to 7 copies, and with 1/3 of their deck cantripping, it's kinda hard for them not to have the right answers. It does happen sometimes when i steal his emrakul and he cant find any of the 7 copies, but it occurs only in such negligible number of games simply due to the fact that i have 1 copy of bribery in the SB and he has 7 cards MB that answers it. molten rain slows him down for a turn, which buys us time, but the problem is that tron has too many cantrips and search effects to guarantee the tron pieces, while we have no wincon fast or efficient enough to capitalize on that slowed turn. slaughter games from my tests suffer from the similar problem as sowing salt: comes down a turn too late. same goes for keranos, if there is a deck that is well positioned to answer a resolved keranos in modern, it has to be tron. my biggest frustration against tron is that doesnt matter how well you control them during early to mid game, if you cannot finish them before late game, any top deck can turn the game around for them.
I havent tried mogis against tron yet, but i will try a copy now and see how it goes.
Round 1 - GR Tron 1-1(draw):
game 1: typically one of our bad matchups but managed to counter some of his dig spells and blank his search effect with shadow of doubt to slow him down
game 4 1-2 loss vs living end
game 2: not much happened, i kept two land with 2 cryptics 2 remands 1 mana leak. i dont draw any more lands in the next 6 turns and lose to a ricochet trap on my counter.
game 3: muligan to 6, smae thing 2 lands and dont draw any more and lose to a turn 3 living end.
I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about Tron in particular. A long while back I used to play a copy of vandalblast instead of shatterstorm (which was my affinity hate card for a while) because I kept playing a bunch of aether vial decks but still wanted that gamewinning spell vs affinity. In the end however I switched back to shatterstorm because aether vial wasnt all that popular. After playing Tron a lot I've been thinking about their search for land effects. For U tron it's mainly expedition map. For G/R tron their most powerful search effects are expedition map and sylvan scrying.
We have spell snares for the scrying, but the map comes down on turn 1, So I was thinking of replacing shatterstorm and rakdos charm or some other sideboard slot with 2 copies of shattering spree This gives us game against the turn 1 map and the spell is relevant against their wurmcoil engines, sundering titans, and oblivion stones which generally stop our aggro strategies. Overall I think its a fantastic spell to bring in against them and its still awesome against affinity in that matchup too, the issue with rakdos charm is that it costs 2 which is kind of big since by then they'll have their maps cracked and hey, vs hatebears killing a vial turn 1 with shattering spree is pretty nice (also they usually have sword of x + x so spreeing that is pretty nice), same with merfolk. (also I had to look this up but if you snapcaster shattering spree you can pay the replicate cost and hit multiple artifacts, also you can get a chalice for 1 if you replicate it, and replicating it makes it hard to counter ).
with pod being banned i'm just not a big fan of rakdos charm anymore, it doesn't impress me enough and i've switched to relic of progenitus as my gy hate since it costs less can keep the GY almost permanently empty and cantrips which i love. (also of note it has some synergy with your tasigur card since you can exile cards you don't want back). Also vs. living end i'd rather have relic personally since its virtually impossible to get fulminator'd and beast within'd out of being able to cast it, and it pretty much neuters them. Just be sure to cast it after they've cycled a few creatures.
btw, if you're looking for cards to cut in your sideboard combust and spellskite seem like good candidates. Combust mainly because we have a ton of disruption already for twin and delver isnt really a deck anymore. spellskite im not a huge fan of in control decks since mainly this card is sided in vs. burn but they have cards like searing blood which makes blocking with it speculative, and smash to smithereens which is very punishing tempo-wise. Also they could just end up casting spells like lava spike, boros charm, skullcrack, flames of the bloodhand, and bump in the night that spellskite does absolutely nothing against. Its better when you have creatures you REALLY want to protect.
Edit: I noticed that Paul Cheon was playing some cruel control on his stream yesterday btw, David Ochoa was chiming in with his card selections also lol, heres link @ around 1 hour 20 minutes into it: http://www.twitch.tv/haumph/v/3773696
great work!
in fact tron is a terrible MU imo, and the fact that tron can keep dropping threats until we lose and we cant really win fast enough really bothers me. I mean i run sow in salts, vandalblasts, countersqualls in the SB, but they are still not quite enough to bring us on par to maybe a 50-50 chance of winning against tron. Tron is just too redundant and efficient, now with ugin in the MD any threat they drop can end the game against us. sometimes not even a cruel ultimatum can seal the deal, and the inevitable emrakul can be even faster than my cruel ultimatum. I'm really frustrated at the tron MU and tron is gaining popularity in my LGS, hope wizards prints something that helps control decks win the long game.
i like how he used tasigur, but the list doesnt look like a control list at all with 9 creatures. I'd try 2 copies of tasigur MB in place of the banned DTT first.
anger of the gods can wipe most of the board a turn earlier, while damnation guarantees to destroy thrun and goyfs. interesting trade off. i run 2 AoTGs and a singleton damnation main, since i feel more vulnerable to fast aggro and burn decks than midrange decks. maybe i should up my damnation count. any suggestions?
i havent picked up 2 copies of dig through time yet so im rocking 2 treasure cruises for now, and i honestly feel that i need the instant speed more than the extra raw card draw on treasure cruise. i guess i;ll need to pick up 2 copies asap....
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
-pay 1 life draw a card
-target creature gets -x/-x (or return to hand)
-target player discards a card
-TARGET PLAYER PUTS THE TOP X CARDS INTO HIS GRAVEYARD
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
nice find!
i notice some of the decks arent really solid like you've mentioned, and i did notice that out of the three decks, only 1 of them included a single copy of cruel ultimatum. now that begs a serious question, should we still employ cruel ultimatum as our wincon? or should we evolve and adapt to tasigur?
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
not at all, i always play 25 lands and I dont find it too problematic to hit my land drops. although it occurs once in a while that i would be choked at 2 or 3 lands, majority of the time the deck runs fine
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
i do side in the second clique against tron since it's a great clock, I also like it for the fact that it takes out a threat and maybe invites either an O-stone or pyroclasm, despite the fact that they are pretty much dead cards against a control deck anyways. but then again, i really dont like the tron matchup simply because i get a feeling that doesnt matter how much hate i pack, they always have a decent chance of topdecking their way out.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
unfortunately i've tried pretty much all those before as my best buddy plays GR tron, sadly a turn 5 bribery doesnt rly seal the game as he can simply o-stone or karn, which combined to 7 copies, and with 1/3 of their deck cantripping, it's kinda hard for them not to have the right answers. It does happen sometimes when i steal his emrakul and he cant find any of the 7 copies, but it occurs only in such negligible number of games simply due to the fact that i have 1 copy of bribery in the SB and he has 7 cards MB that answers it. molten rain slows him down for a turn, which buys us time, but the problem is that tron has too many cantrips and search effects to guarantee the tron pieces, while we have no wincon fast or efficient enough to capitalize on that slowed turn. slaughter games from my tests suffer from the similar problem as sowing salt: comes down a turn too late. same goes for keranos, if there is a deck that is well positioned to answer a resolved keranos in modern, it has to be tron. my biggest frustration against tron is that doesnt matter how well you control them during early to mid game, if you cannot finish them before late game, any top deck can turn the game around for them.
I havent tried mogis against tron yet, but i will try a copy now and see how it goes.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
great work!
in fact tron is a terrible MU imo, and the fact that tron can keep dropping threats until we lose and we cant really win fast enough really bothers me. I mean i run sow in salts, vandalblasts, countersqualls in the SB, but they are still not quite enough to bring us on par to maybe a 50-50 chance of winning against tron. Tron is just too redundant and efficient, now with ugin in the MD any threat they drop can end the game against us. sometimes not even a cruel ultimatum can seal the deal, and the inevitable emrakul can be even faster than my cruel ultimatum. I'm really frustrated at the tron MU and tron is gaining popularity in my LGS, hope wizards prints something that helps control decks win the long game.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU