Quote from amalek0 »Ulting Jace AOT into cruel ultimatum should already be GG. Wanting to hit another planeswalker is so overtly win-more that you should be somewhat ashamed of trying for it. One more mana than cruel ultimatum is a big deal when we're already the only deck trying to ever cast a spell with more than triple color requirements in the format. Yes, Nicol Bolas is nuts on the table against any fair deck. No, I don't think you should ever in a million years plan to play him; jam some grave titans if you want to beat midrange.
Quote from ZeehdI also want to know why no one seems to play Liliana of The Veil, as she seems to me a good option in this deck.
It's a perfectly fine way to tune your deck, but you'll be tapping out more often at the start of the game which will in turn hurt your Twin matchups where tapout = danger and you want them to be forced to play around counterspells at all times. That said, Augur is much better in the aggro matchups and both him and Visions help you dig deep for answers. I personally have played both and prefer the somewhat slower but instant-speed Clique / Teachings package as it suits my playstyle better; I do encourage you to give both configurations a try.
Quote from SoadiWhat do you guys think of another take on Cruel Control featuring Heartless Summoning + Keranos, God of Storms?
Quote from Zanzabar21It is obviously not "working" or it would be what people played when they went to control. Instead those shoes are filled by U/W/R.
Quote from Ym1rSorry if repost, I can't find it so I am not sure if it got reposted, but this guy went 4-0 on MODO
Badd Business's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
MAIN DECK4 Augur of Bolas2 Anger of the Gods1 Batterskull2 Cruel Ultimatum3 Cryptic Command2 Damnation2 Electrolyze4 Inquisition of Kozilek4 Lightning Bolt4 Remand1 Repeal4 Serum Visions2 Terminate1 Thoughtflare1 Blood Crypt1 Creeping Tar Pit3 Darkslick Shores1 Dragonskull Summit1 Dreadship Reef2 Drowned Catacomb1 Halimar Depths1 Island1 Lavaclaw Reaches4 Scalding Tarn1 Snow-Covered Island1 Snow-Covered Mountain2 Steam Vents2 Sulfur Falls1 Swamp2 Watery GraveSIDEBOARD2 Combust1 Countersquall1 Deathmark2 Mana Leak2 Night of Souls' Betrayal2 Relic of Progenitus2 Shattering Spree2 Sowing Salt
Quote from elMochaLatteWouldn't v clique just be better than spellheart Here??
Quote from Rogon@Badd: First, congratulations on your 4-0! I'm curious about some of your card choices.
1. Why a full set of Augur of Bolas instead of a combination of Snapcaster Mage. Is it due to graveyard hate, or something else? Perhaps Night of Soul's Betrayal? Is it not counter to the Anger of the Gods plan? Would you consider Think Twice, or Night's Whisper or is the value of a blocker more important?
2. Terminate vs. Dreadbore, i.e. instant speed versus extra versatility. Is it because Liliana of the Veil sees little play right now?
3. Repeal vs. Boomerang/Into the Roil/Cyclonic Rift.
4. Night of Soul's Betrayal vs. Curse of Death's Hold.
Quote from BloodArtistI really like the list from the daily on the last page that 4-0'd. Is there any consideration to just maxing out on Anger as apposed to Damnation? It seems better to me at the moment and coming down a turn earlier is huge against Zoo (on the draw especially).
Why no Rakdos Charm in the side? it seems to cover multiple bases and could then free up some slots for other cards?
Quote from greenminidImnot worriedd about it. I had those actually. Spellskite came in handy especially when he killed the batterskull token. I was just saying that I didn't think it was that far in their favor.
2. we have some very powerful but narrow answers: we very strong game against control and combo OR against control and aggro - but never against combo and aggro at the same time. we run cards that are great, but have a wide array of dead mathcups. examples: spell snare (huge amount of targets, but dead to living end, zoo, semidead against scapeshift, splinter twin), anger of the gods (great against merfolk, goblins, white wheenie hatebears, pod but dead against living end, big zoo, all of combo). inquisition of kozilek is a great card and now an even better meta call. but its dead against ALL of combo. thoughtseize is supreme, sure. but we lose even more life. other control decks have answers that are way more versatile (lightning helix, abrupt decay). idea: maybe instead of trimming our sideboards and decks to certain matchups, we should design a maindeck vs control and aggro and dedicate the whole sideboard to answers against combo/graveyard.
3. we have strong game against a variety of tier 1 decks (uwr, pod, preban jund, twin) but i noticed (playing in 3 german cities in the last months) that the more special, budget, homebrew or creative the meta gets, the less our deck has the right answers (some "rogue" matchups i tracked, all whole rounds of fnm or gpt: 8rack 2-1 in my favor, merfolk 0-3, goblins 0-2, burn 0-2, ub mill 3-0, esper enchanter 0-2, bloody soul sisters with norin the wary 0-2). okay, maybe its only me, but we cant answer everything reactively, so maybe its time to get more proactive and aggressive. how about trying to go more tapout control? ashiok, nightmare weaver, jace, architect of thought, jace beleren, blightning, death's shadow, delver of secrets all these are strong cards that we could use to put some more pressure on the board and force OUR plan upon the enemy. dont get me wrong, i dont want to change the tone of ye olde grixis cruel control. i just wonder whether we really benefit from instant speed as much as we think.
How is WUR favorable? They run more burn than you. They can beat down with Snapcaster Mages too. They can use Sphinx's Revelation at instant-speed and can easily counter Cruel Ultimatum. They have stronger manlands than you. They have a better manabase than you (especially since they aren't trying to cast an ultimatum). I just can't see how you view this as good, unless if the Thoughtseizes and Inquisitions of Kozilek fix everything.
Your removal is Lightning Bolts, Electrolyzes, and two mana spells like Terminate. You're facing a deck that is mostly four toughness creatures and Spell Snares.
You don't win that match-up. Not ever.
I fly like Faeries, get high like Jace
Quote from The Dead WeathermanUltimatum is not stronger than Revelation. Not even close. They're close, but Revelation is just better.
And the correct answer to "Why not play UWR?" when it comes to control decks is "Because I don't want to." Each control deck - be it UWR, UW, Faeries, Cruel, or a tempo deck - has its own strengths, weaknesses, and match-up dynamics and there is no strictly superior option among them. Also there's the human factor: different kinds of control deck fit different people. Some people are better at the reactive UWR/Cruel style, some are better than the aggressive UW Midrange tap-out style. Each player has their own nurtured instincts and you'll always do better with the style that comes naturally to you than what is (only technically) the best deck.
Different strokes for different folks is a truism for the ages.
Also, it should be noted that UWR being "the best control deck" was a symptom of the format rather than brute strength - although the deck is obviously incredibly strong. Its Lightning Bolts made it better against Deathrite Shaman than Azorius and its life gain options worked better than Cruel. But now Deathrite is gone and Cruel Control is starting to figure itself out. What's more, the format is balancing out so that UWR's Lightning Bolts aren't the strict best option because every deck is Jund.
Play the deck you're best at. I'm best at UW, it's what I do, I live for it, so that's what I play. I try to play UWR occasionally but I always suck at it. Also UW beats UWR and Grixis and I want to play the deck that beats UWR and Grixis, so, yanno, things and stuff.
Quote from Magicman657Quote from xJoShNo comments on my list?? "feeling ignored"
Batterskull isn't win more; it's there to help you stabilize against aggro decks and keep you out of burn range. And it has a super expensive secret mode to it after you rip your opponent's hand apart where you equip it to a Creeping Tarpit and swing straight through their board state (which has won me games already).
Quote from xJoShNo comments on my list?? "feeling ignored"
Quote from xJoShList list list!!! And Congrats!
Quote from Robzilla96Guys, i need an answer. Im a huge Cruel Control enthusiast, and my friends always ask me, "Why not just play uwr?" Im not ignorant, i see the pros and cons of each deck, but i just cant wrap my head around how there isn't ONE guy out there top 8ing with it!! I mean black is great in addition to ur, as is white, but can someone give me a reason why there isnt a guy out there making youtube coverage or making it to top 8. I just watched protour born of the gods, and its all pod and uwr, there was even one guy playing mono black discard! i mean how?! How come there isnt cruel control out there? what is our weakness?! Are there just not enough enthusiasts out there?! Somebody tell me!!