Made the changes you suggested, as well as made the deck closer to what the deck Lil_Bolas linked to. I'm having a lot of fun! Still need to invest in Scalding Tarns, since my mana base is more [mc]UB[/mc] now, but otherwise it's pretty good.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar have been surprisingly useful as a 1-of in the main and 1 in the side. Makes Token match-ups much more tolerable. Does anyone have any thoughts on Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet? I picked one up recently and stuck him in the sb, but I'm not sure how good he is in Cruel Control. Any experiences with him to share?
I run 2 Scalding Tarn, 2 Bloodstained Mire, and 4 Polluted Delta. If you have 4 Delta, you can honestly run 4 Bloodstained over Tarn. Pia and Kiran is wonderful maindeck and/or SB. Kalitas I've maindecked but I've yet to play magic with it so I cannot comment at this moment. It may not stay maindeck with me, but for testing purposes it's going to. I may SB after all the testing is over.
Hello, all. Lurked here for a little while but this is my first time posting. Been building a Cruel Control deck, since it's in my favorite colors, and I want to improve it to the point where I can start going into tourneys on MTGO. Just traded in a bunch of my cards I stopped using for some extra tix and I've built a fairly solid deck thus far, I think:
I've tried out Mystical Teachings for the deck, but I found it too slow against most of my opponents, so I dropped it. Also not entirely sure about Obsy. I used Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker prior to him, but Baby Bolas doesn't feel as powerful or as fun to use as him. Can Big Bad Bolas work in this current metagame, or is he just too slow a finisher? And what could I use over Ob Nixilis?
EDIT: PLEASE don't suggest Jace, Vryn's Prodigy! He's well over 90 tix on MTGO, and there's no way in hell I'm spending/trading that much away to use him.
I suggest dropping the third Cryptic Command for a second Damnation.
Also, I highly suggest giving Ashiok a try. That card is a tough cookie at times for people to deal with. I've won games single-handed against Scapeshift and Gifts due to that walker, among other decks. Really good against creature decks, obviously, while still being strong against control decks.
Nicol Bolas is only for flavor really, despite how powerful the card is IF it lands, as you'd be better off with just strictly Cruel. I play Nicol in the sideboard just for fun. Format is way too fast and hard to land a Nicol Bolas, and against various board states he simply does nothing whereas a Cruel does much more given the costs.
I'd also remove the Firespout from the SB for something like Anger of the Gods.
Chalice of the Void stops Snare and/or Innocent Blood. Besides, they dump so many creatures out so fast and have way too many creatures that are not 2 mana. To top that off they have Cavern of Souls, Thought-Knot, and other cards like Inquisition and/or Thoughtseize that laugh at us. Some of the decks run and/or can run counter magic, but they're leaning away from this. Next up is even if we ran all board wipes, they still have haste creatures(Reality Smasher makes us discard in order to target), creaturelands, and over-the-top creatures that put us out of the game with enter and/or cast triggers that are back-breaking for us. They have lands such as Ghost Quarter that can put a strain on us, especially in a build such as their's. Additionally, Eye of Ugin says we can never go the late game with them.
I know of no way for us to react to this deck in a realistic manner. For the first time since Modern's creation, my Cruel list(my thinking about it) cannot even stand a chance to a deck. Some decks have been negative towards us, but there was still a chance, even if slight. These Eldrazi decks have access to the entire color pie, while leveling the purpose of it. If we think of a way to combatant one version of this monster, the other versions will tear us apart.
I'll entertain thoughts, but for the first time I cannot play Modern since its exception. We've now been slung into the Affinity days of standard - much worse than Callblade. Sure, it's not the same, but you get my comparison I'm sure.
I literally have to put my deck down and I cannot even play in the Louisville SCG event that's coming this month unless I want to play Eldrazi. I had looked so forward to it too. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we can brew something or whatever to figure out how we can fight this beast.
Mogis coming out a turn earlier than Keranos and his 'spicy' factor has single-handedly won me games against grindy matchups. I was simply blown away on how he completely took over games, such as matchups like Jund. I remember coming in here when he was new and advocating for people to give him a try. However he isn't just spicy, he's actually quite good. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why Keranos is powerful and I run one of each of these two gods. Keranos whiffs at times, especially against cards like spellskite or leyline of sanctity, whereas Mogis completely gets around these two mentioned cards. Mogis can whiff in the sense that the opponent always has the option to sac a creature, but more often than not they will take the two damage. Only time an opponent doesn't take the damage is if they have a plethora of creatures(tokens or what-have-you) or are about to die. The damage from Mogis is slightly more guaranteed than the damage Keranos might do, even though I understand Keranos does a point more of damage. Since we are a control deck we mostly keep a handle on opponents' creatures, so Mogis provides a more controlled clock. I've seen many players not know how to simply to deal with or can't deal with a Mogis vs a Keranos. Also, Mogis is still quite good against control decks. Another thing is that Mogis does the damage the turn after he's out, whereas Keranos takes one turn more, thus essentially being always a turn behind. Now, I do understand the card advantage that Keranos provides, but I like what Mogis can provide too.
I have cards in this deck to deal with local meta, like the Counterflux that you see, that I dropped Cryptic Command for. I may be trying to revert back to some number of the Cryptics and/or Cruels since Twin and Bloom are gone. I have only one set foil Cruel, but I have 8 FtV ones. Obviously some of these cards in these photos won't be going into the deck and/or may not have ever been in it(such as Blightning).
These are the foils and/or promos that I currently have in my Main deck. I'm getting my 4th Polluted Delta Expedition this Friday(I have a foil from Khans but didn't include it in these photos). Then I'll only need two Bloodstained Mire Expeditions to finish it up(to replace the two non-foil Scalding Tarns I have currently). I may switch around the Sulfer Falls and/or Dragonskull Summit into two tango land Expeditions.
Lil_Bolas, your deck is just as sexy as mine, if not sexier. I don't have those judge textless TN lands that you have, but I do have foils. I may now have to get those lands looking at your list. The rest of my deck is foiled and promo'd out with exception to the Snapcaster Mages as I am not fond of some of their foiling and am waiting for the new ones possibly.
Wandering Fumarole is a very interesting creature land, and I have to say I really like it. It's no Celestial Colonnade or Creeping Tar Pit, but that's fine. I think it's a great card, and I will try to incorporate two into my list somehow, maybe. The art is really wonderful for this card too. I recommend it for the Cruel Control lists.
This is my current build. Note, I change this monster around quite frequently due to local meta, and that I am always testing various cards. Generally speaking, I always have 1-2 Cruel Ultimatums maindeck, but currently I do not. The third Electrolyze in this list, I am thinking of changing - maybe for a Vendilion Clique once more or putting Cruel back in. I am not quite certain how exactly I feel about the two IoK that I am currently using maindeck. I want discard, but then again I do not; a love-hate relationship currently.
The reason I love this card so much, is that it comes out a turn prior to what Keranos could and does what I often want Keranos to do. It's more than likely a hit to the face than Keranos possibly whiffing off to drawing you additional cards. Either Gods come back due to Kolaghan's Command. Now, Mogis could whiff if they sac a creature, which is more than likely what we want them to do. But, in my experience, I keep them so pinned down that they are hardly in a position to want to sacrifice a creature, and if they do, they're still going to get rounded the turn afterwards. The only essence I've come to see where Keranos is better, is if they're sac'ing tokens to my Mogis; which, in my case, I am probably losing if I can't withstand some tokens. However, I crush token decks, so I would board him out if I had to. Keranos has to target, whereas Mogis doesn't. Mogis does the damage during their turn versus Keranos having to come back to your turn from first casting such Gods. Now, Keranos might do a hit more of damage, but Mogis has been, in my experience, to be a more stable clock for the win con.
It becomes a point of draw and preference. Keranos is better suited late game, for if he can guarantee the damage or guarantee the draw, whereas Mogis might just be staring down against an army and they might pitch something under the bus and move along, thus making Mogis seem like a joke. I play both Gods.
I see the arguments for Nicol Bolas, and I do love him. I'm simply a sucker for flavor, and who doesn't want to eat the opponent's faces off with Nicol Bolas? I hope we someday get a more playable version of him to add to our decks. With that being said, there's not much difference between Bolas and Cruel in comparison to the meta, as neither does much more damage than the next in retrospect that either our opponent has either won(or about to) or is nearly killed off. However, Cruel Ultimatum is the superior card and I will more often than not always run it before not running it. I have tried Bolas in the past and will attempt him again in the future. Using Jace to summon up a Cruel is better in my opinion. Using Cruel to reoccur creatures is pretty useful. Plus, isn't it fun just snapping back into a slim-cruel? Come on now. Get that snap-cruel bus going and you will roll your opponent's face off quicker than what Nicol often would. I will state that I've had people concede quicker to resolving a Nicol Bolas versus a Cruel Ultimatum.
Obviously everyone here has made strong arguments over this, and we all have our own opinions. Meta dependent, of course, utilize what works best for you. Dispel is what works for me, as I love its hard counter in the late game and winning counter wars, which to me is what a hard control decks wants to do more often than otherwise. While the versatility of Spell Pierce is strong, it lacks in what this decks is often wanting to do - go the late game and take complete control - and win the arguments.
Commanding back Gods such as Mogis and Keranos is just lols of fun and amusement. I'm really interested in seeing this K Command being used a lot in Cruel lists and hoping to see how it plays out. As far as Anticipate goes I'm just waiting to see if other lists start running it, and what decks in Modern might utilize it. I'm very optimistic about this dig card, and hope that this "half-dig-through-time" is what fixes our decks. Time will only tell, of course. I'm currently running 4 Anticipate and 2 K Command.
tuxdev,
Your list is predominately UB, which I'm not hating on. I have to suggest that if you're that far out of red, with the style it appears you're playing, it might be just correct for you to just go entirely UB Control. Not that there isn't other lists that marginally use one color out of the others they utilize. Please don't think that I'm telling you what to do or should do, just commenting on it. By all means, please stay the Grixis colors. I love Grixis Control, not just -Cruel- Control. True Control is my favorite, but I have most of the decks built in Modern, and can play and do play them. Nice comments though about Sickening Shoal, and I have to say I'm interested in how it pans out. I am always looking for out-of-the-box thinking, and often trying to ticker around. I like seeing suggestions like these, so thank you. I'm looking forward to Lil_Bolas piloting it on MODO and hopefully giving feedback on it, or from any who give it a run.
amalek0,
"Cruel control is for those who have a love of pulling wings off butterflies and clubbing baby seals."
Yeah, I admit Leyline of S is just me goofing around at the moment. I wouldn't dare try the next game of Blood Moon + Leyline against them if it somehow worked and didn't kill me the first time. While Spell Snare is an amazing card, I really dislike playing with it, even if it's pretty good at the moment. It's so polarizing that it puts me off. I only run it maindeck when I do, so if I don't then there's no chance I'd sideboard it. I have found Dispel a far better versatile card, catching far more against Infect, Burn, and other Control decks than what Spell Snare would.
I always have a love for good old Pyroclasm, but I'm currently not sideboarding or maindecking it.
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I'm happy to see you'll be taking the head over this thread.
I run 2 Scalding Tarn, 2 Bloodstained Mire, and 4 Polluted Delta. If you have 4 Delta, you can honestly run 4 Bloodstained over Tarn. Pia and Kiran is wonderful maindeck and/or SB. Kalitas I've maindecked but I've yet to play magic with it so I cannot comment at this moment. It may not stay maindeck with me, but for testing purposes it's going to. I may SB after all the testing is over.
I suggest dropping the third Cryptic Command for a second Damnation.
Also, I highly suggest giving Ashiok a try. That card is a tough cookie at times for people to deal with. I've won games single-handed against Scapeshift and Gifts due to that walker, among other decks. Really good against creature decks, obviously, while still being strong against control decks.
Nicol Bolas is only for flavor really, despite how powerful the card is IF it lands, as you'd be better off with just strictly Cruel. I play Nicol in the sideboard just for fun. Format is way too fast and hard to land a Nicol Bolas, and against various board states he simply does nothing whereas a Cruel does much more given the costs.
I'd also remove the Firespout from the SB for something like Anger of the Gods.
I know of no way for us to react to this deck in a realistic manner. For the first time since Modern's creation, my Cruel list(my thinking about it) cannot even stand a chance to a deck. Some decks have been negative towards us, but there was still a chance, even if slight. These Eldrazi decks have access to the entire color pie, while leveling the purpose of it. If we think of a way to combatant one version of this monster, the other versions will tear us apart.
I'll entertain thoughts, but for the first time I cannot play Modern since its exception. We've now been slung into the Affinity days of standard - much worse than Callblade. Sure, it's not the same, but you get my comparison I'm sure.
I literally have to put my deck down and I cannot even play in the Louisville SCG event that's coming this month unless I want to play Eldrazi. I had looked so forward to it too. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we can brew something or whatever to figure out how we can fight this beast.
I understand that. I wish they were all foil textless cards.
Lil_Bolas, your deck is just as sexy as mine, if not sexier. I don't have those judge textless TN lands that you have, but I do have foils. I may now have to get those lands looking at your list. The rest of my deck is foiled and promo'd out with exception to the Snapcaster Mages as I am not fond of some of their foiling and am waiting for the new ones possibly.
1x Blood Crypt
4x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Sunken Ruins
2x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Creatures (6)
1x Mogis, God of Slaughter
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Batterskull
Sorceries (4)
2x Damnation
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
Instants (24)
4x Anticipate
4x Counterflux
3x Electrolyze
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
2x Terminate
3x Blood Moon
2x Dispel
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Rakdos Charm
2x Thoughtseize
2x Vendilion Clique
This is my current build. Note, I change this monster around quite frequently due to local meta, and that I am always testing various cards. Generally speaking, I always have 1-2 Cruel Ultimatums maindeck, but currently I do not. The third Electrolyze in this list, I am thinking of changing - maybe for a Vendilion Clique once more or putting Cruel back in. I am not quite certain how exactly I feel about the two IoK that I am currently using maindeck. I want discard, but then again I do not; a love-hate relationship currently.
The reason I love this card so much, is that it comes out a turn prior to what Keranos could and does what I often want Keranos to do. It's more than likely a hit to the face than Keranos possibly whiffing off to drawing you additional cards. Either Gods come back due to Kolaghan's Command. Now, Mogis could whiff if they sac a creature, which is more than likely what we want them to do. But, in my experience, I keep them so pinned down that they are hardly in a position to want to sacrifice a creature, and if they do, they're still going to get rounded the turn afterwards. The only essence I've come to see where Keranos is better, is if they're sac'ing tokens to my Mogis; which, in my case, I am probably losing if I can't withstand some tokens. However, I crush token decks, so I would board him out if I had to. Keranos has to target, whereas Mogis doesn't. Mogis does the damage during their turn versus Keranos having to come back to your turn from first casting such Gods. Now, Keranos might do a hit more of damage, but Mogis has been, in my experience, to be a more stable clock for the win con.
It becomes a point of draw and preference. Keranos is better suited late game, for if he can guarantee the damage or guarantee the draw, whereas Mogis might just be staring down against an army and they might pitch something under the bus and move along, thus making Mogis seem like a joke. I play both Gods.
I see the arguments for Nicol Bolas, and I do love him. I'm simply a sucker for flavor, and who doesn't want to eat the opponent's faces off with Nicol Bolas? I hope we someday get a more playable version of him to add to our decks. With that being said, there's not much difference between Bolas and Cruel in comparison to the meta, as neither does much more damage than the next in retrospect that either our opponent has either won(or about to) or is nearly killed off. However, Cruel Ultimatum is the superior card and I will more often than not always run it before not running it. I have tried Bolas in the past and will attempt him again in the future. Using Jace to summon up a Cruel is better in my opinion. Using Cruel to reoccur creatures is pretty useful. Plus, isn't it fun just snapping back into a slim-cruel? Come on now. Get that snap-cruel bus going and you will roll your opponent's face off quicker than what Nicol often would. I will state that I've had people concede quicker to resolving a Nicol Bolas versus a Cruel Ultimatum.
-- Regarding Dispel - Spell Pierce.
Obviously everyone here has made strong arguments over this, and we all have our own opinions. Meta dependent, of course, utilize what works best for you. Dispel is what works for me, as I love its hard counter in the late game and winning counter wars, which to me is what a hard control decks wants to do more often than otherwise. While the versatility of Spell Pierce is strong, it lacks in what this decks is often wanting to do - go the late game and take complete control - and win the arguments.
-- Speaking about Kolaghan's Command and Anticipate.
Commanding back Gods such as Mogis and Keranos is just lols of fun and amusement. I'm really interested in seeing this K Command being used a lot in Cruel lists and hoping to see how it plays out. As far as Anticipate goes I'm just waiting to see if other lists start running it, and what decks in Modern might utilize it. I'm very optimistic about this dig card, and hope that this "half-dig-through-time" is what fixes our decks. Time will only tell, of course. I'm currently running 4 Anticipate and 2 K Command.
tuxdev,
Your list is predominately UB, which I'm not hating on. I have to suggest that if you're that far out of red, with the style it appears you're playing, it might be just correct for you to just go entirely UB Control. Not that there isn't other lists that marginally use one color out of the others they utilize. Please don't think that I'm telling you what to do or should do, just commenting on it. By all means, please stay the Grixis colors. I love Grixis Control, not just -Cruel- Control. True Control is my favorite, but I have most of the decks built in Modern, and can play and do play them. Nice comments though about Sickening Shoal, and I have to say I'm interested in how it pans out. I am always looking for out-of-the-box thinking, and often trying to ticker around. I like seeing suggestions like these, so thank you. I'm looking forward to Lil_Bolas piloting it on MODO and hopefully giving feedback on it, or from any who give it a run.
amalek0,
"Cruel control is for those who have a love of pulling wings off butterflies and clubbing baby seals."
Thanks for the compliment.
I always have a love for good old Pyroclasm, but I'm currently not sideboarding or maindecking it.