i have to agree, although i did like that quadruple black spell a lot, but then i saw the zombies come in tapped, which i know isnt the hugest or anything but ever since that its looking worse and worse for reason after reason. it had potential but also in modern putting ur eggs in ur graveyard is not a sound strategy. theres pleeenty of gy hate.
It doesn't really matter that the enter tapped because its an instant.
I could write a very long disupute why colorless lands are horrible in this deck but seems no one is willing to listen. Even though you're a control deck, this is NOT UWR kind of control deck. UWR is glorified tempo/counterburn and is low on curve really, until REALLY late game. This is hard control. Each land you lose from the board hurts you really bad and is NOT worth losing just to kill an utility land. If those bother you so much, run Spreading Seas or Molten Rain or Sowing Salt off the board. There are so many options that don't make you hurt your manabase more than it's worth.
WUR Control without the Restoration Angels/Vendilion Cliques is not a glorified tempo/counterburn deck.
thundermaw is quite the beater, he has no protection though, if he had shroud/hexproof dang :). usually win conditions have to be very resilient. I could still somewhat see it though, some people like bogardan hellkite because he at least does 5 divided however. He does cost a LOT tho.
I personally prefer Batterskull, but I still prefer Stormbreath Dragon to Thundermaw Hellkite for that exact reason. Paying 5 mana to have give your opponent a target for Path to Exile isn't worth it.
Well, you know what?
By play tstong a bit, I noticed that the first thing that they will try to destroy is our lands too on second game. I tend to remove the cruel too on second game. We need another win condition. I mean, even UWR control added kiki to combo out of nowhere. Maye Hive Mind? Since we can play slaughter Pact and Pact of negation it could be an idea, along with cards like, just throwing it in, Exhaustion?
We need to win faster, Cruel Ultimatum works on first game 50% of the time, but it can't be our only win con... I mean, even Aetherling seems faster...
About the lands, I'm thinking about running more Leyline of Anticipation and more Chromatic Lanterns... I just don't know what to cut...
You stay alive until you untap. Against combo, this means that you make sure that your opponent can not take off (counter magic), or have a stripped hand (hand disruption). Against aggro, it means that you have to have swept everything off the board prior to casting her.
The PW stays alive. Otherwise, you have a very expensive (5 mana) sorcery speed spell with little effect. How much would you pay for "Freeze tgt creature, gain 5 life"? Most of the time, this means playing into a board of no more than one strong creature.
Tamiyo was good for a while in Standard when mid-range was a thing. In those match-ups, she could hold down the fort against their one big creature. Modern is by far not a mid-range format, which explains why she is not good in Modern.
I think that he real problem is that in the Midrange matchups, Keranos is much better.
Has this deck even placed consistently in anything of note? Like a 'Cruel Control' deck and not some random Grixis / Teachings deck? PTQ top 8? 4-0 a daily now and then?
Not trolling but in two years of playing heaps Modern, grinding out PTQs and playing at a few Modern GPs, I've never seen a Cruel Control deck with any results to let me think: "Hey... This deck is a player."
I know it at least won 3 GPTs belonging to GP Richmond and it does put up enough numbers to keep it in Established.
For now at least. Next set release it could get demoted though.
You have to remember that Ktkenshinx decided that it takes 2 cycles to demote a deck. I am pretty sure that it didn't qualify for this one.
Now that I'm beginning to consider it, I want to discuss telling time vs augur of bolas, I believe that augur > Think twice and remand easily as far as library manipulation goes
Telling time has the same digging power as augur with the upsides of being able to grab a land if need be and being instant speed, making it interact better with other instant speed 2 drops (while they're both in hand)
Augur offers both defensive and offensive options but he's sorcery speed, which makes him awkward when you have a mana leak/terminate in hand. He also can't grab lands or artifacts (in my case would be batterskull or r bomb out of the board). Definitely going to play around with both or at least be asking myself which one I would rather have according to the situations I run into. At least for my build on paper, Telling Time seems like a better choice
I prefer Condescend to all of these in Control decks.
Based on some of the recent suggestions I've put together a build that I'm eager to try out. Of this list I have already tested the Hellkite and 4 Remands instead of Leaks and liked it a lot. Snapcaster + Remand = good. Like someone mentioned earlier I've been on the fence and a bit underwhelmed with Electrolyze lately. Its really hit or miss depending on the opposition. I never really knew what to replace it with until now (Magma Jet). I've played with Batterskull and Jace Beleran (2 of) and while they are both amazing in their own rights, I feel much more comfortable with the draw go style of this deck, which is why I went back to a Teachings build. Terminate is probably the one card left out that I would want to fit in somewhere.
Why I like where this is heading:
8 cheap instant direct damage spells
2 tutor-able alternate win conditions (Hellkite and Suffer the Past)
12 main deck counters
6 cards with scry (Condescend can masquerade as a preordain if need be. Good call, Valanarch)
If you're suggesting Cancel you might as well use Dissipate. Remand is the only other option really. While its more for a tempo deck, aren't we just buying time until we can cast Cruel anyway?
Any suggestions for dealing with Hatebears? There are (no joke) three people running hatebears at my LGS and it's just awful, lol. One of them is playing Choke in the SB which can shut this deck down under the right circumstances. He also played something that said, "lands don't untap. During each player's untap step, that player may untap one land"
Any suggestions on dealing with such a high saturation of this deck? The rest of the meta includes 1 UWR, 1 Affinity, 1 Infect, 1 Goblin, 1 B/R Discard, 1 Amulet of Vigor Combo.
I don't think that that second card that you mentioned is Modern-legal (Winter Orb). I have found that sweepers are really good against Hatebears.
Any suggestions for dealing with Hatebears? There are (no joke) three people running hatebears at my LGS and it's just awful, lol. One of them is playing Choke in the SB which can shut this deck down under the right circumstances. He also played something that said, "lands don't untap. During each player's untap step, that player may untap one land"
Any suggestions on dealing with such a high saturation of this deck? The rest of the meta includes 1 UWR, 1 Affinity, 1 Infect, 1 Goblin, 1 B/R Discard, 1 Amulet of Vigor Combo.
I don't think that that second card that you mentioned is Modern-legal (Winter Orb). I have found that sweepers are really good against Hatebears.
This is what I think I'm taking to the Minneapolis GP next weekend. It'll be my first tournament since I was 15 (19 years ago). Seeing that it's 5 miles from my house it would be silly not to go experience it.
Until last week I was playing it with 2 Forbidden Alchemy and only 3 Electrolyze's and 2 Terminates. I bumped each one of those up and removed Alchemy in favor of more consistency in the main board. The only reason I'm removing the Alchemy is because I have 13 cards that provide draw. 2 Shadow of Doubt's main board in this deck is a must. Its directly applicable in 90% of your match ups. At the very least its a cheap draw, and helps with game 1 against pod. It also really messes up things like Primeval Titan if you can't counter it (e.g. Genesis Wave). I used to run 4 Mana Leaks, but dropped one b/c there were quite a few times where I just couldn't counter something b/c they had too much mana open. Remand is basically my 4th Leak now.
As for the sideboard...
A friend recommended Annul in the sideboard to combat Twin. Its a lot easier to keep 1 mana up than 2, and it also helps with token decks (Intangible Virtue) and Affinity. Its also an answer to Blood Moon. Spellskite is for burn match ups, and walls against zoo/aggro decks. I advocated Tribute to Hungar earlier in this thread, but swapped it out for Far // Away. I really like the life gain option in some match ups, but Far // Away has more reach. It handles things like Geists very well, and is just more flexible all around. I don't like Thoughsieze main board, it just sucks too much life which I think this deck can't afford to do. IoK has been a champ and hits so many cards. Duress has been a great sideboard option too. Applicable against a lot of decks. A single Hero's Downfall incase I run into an 8-Rack or Tron deck and need to dispose of a planeswalker. Yeah, Dreadbore is cheaper, but I like instants more than sorceries
It doesn't really matter that the enter tapped because its an instant.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
WUR Control without the Restoration Angels/Vendilion Cliques is not a glorified tempo/counterburn deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I personally prefer Batterskull, but I still prefer Stormbreath Dragon to Thundermaw Hellkite for that exact reason. Paying 5 mana to have give your opponent a target for Path to Exile isn't worth it.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
You could try Keranos.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I think that he real problem is that in the Midrange matchups, Keranos is much better.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Very explanatory.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
You have to remember that Ktkenshinx decided that it takes 2 cycles to demote a deck. I am pretty sure that it didn't qualify for this one.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I prefer Condescend to all of these in Control decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Thanks for the Magma Jet suggestion! I think that I will try that out in Blue Moon.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Dissolve is better than Dissipate and Counterflux is better than both of them. And Condescend is much better than Remand in Control decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It probably was that then.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I don't think that that second card that you mentioned is Modern-legal (Winter Orb). I have found that sweepers are really good against Hatebears.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
If you want a third option for a competiitve control deck, there is always Blue Moon.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'd run Volcanic Fallout or Shatterstorm for Twin. They both almost completely kill it.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.