I have 1 RB Eldrazi deck in my meta it's one of the "midrange" variants using Wasteland Stranger and the likes. Nothing too explosive.
I actually did not think about the Sire of Stagnation/Ghost Quarter thing. Thouth i am not sure if Ghost Quarter is really that good considering that we put ourselves at land disadvantage? Tec Edge atleast trades 1 for 1, that's why i run it. (Also GQ Effect is a MAY effect so eh...)
About Tombstalker: I feel like it does too little. Tasigur atleast hands you cards back and stands in the way as a blocker, generating more long-term value. There's no need to rush the kill with super evasive threats, right?
I will see if i add Rune Snag and/or Think Twice to my list. Hell, if i want to go full graveyard i could run 4x Rune Snag, 4x Accumulated Knowledge and 4x Thought Scour. But that doesn't seem so good considering the GY hate in Modern.
I mean I would be pretty glad if they didn't take the land from Ghost Quarter. Puts them down a land and makes our Mana Leaks better. You get a win-win situation. Tombstalker was just a suggestion. With so many decks looking to win by attacking from the ground you can just fly over them and I saw you are running 4 Delve creatures.
I wouldn't really worry too much about graveyard hate. The deck naturally attracts people to bring in graveyard hate so I would just worry about stopping it from happening.
Also Accumulated Knowledge isn't modern legal sadly.
Indeed when i play control i just love the "Draw, go, counter your stuff, kill your stuff, eventually drop my threat and beat you" kind of style.
On a sidenote i do not want to take this deck to any major tournament. THis is just meant as a sidedeck for FNM where i know the meta. Spellsnare is still pretty good here.
What would you recommend to get further on the draw go side? More counterspells/sweepers? I was thinking about dropping to 1 Angler and put in a Languish for it.
I usually think about FNM before any real big time event. I have 2 Eldrazi players at my LGS I basically have a side Side Board for when I play local or travel for tournaments.
Draw-go favors a lot of 2 for 1 so cards like Electrolyze, Remand and Cryptic Command go a long way. You could pair your Sire of Stagnation with Ghost Quarter to really get some good value. Even Shadow of Doubt is great with Ghost Quarters and cause it replaces itself you can pretty much Sinkhole your opponent and draw a new card to threaten with.
Languish is great with your big body threats. Any creature you play that can survive the wrath pairs well with it. Have you considered Tombstalker?
So this has been an adventure for me to try, and when I say that I mean... WHEW! It felt soooo good playing this on FNM and being able to go 3-1 with it and even the days before that going 4-0! This deck has just done such a fantastic job of keeping the heat up and the pace even faster. Now take what yall may, but I want some insight on what you guys think about how this works well and doesn't seem to work. But to me, it puts in everything it has!
23 Lands! Pretty low count but you also run a large amount of draw spells so it probably works. I have debated trying out Chandra, Flamecaller. She looks like she can just win the game if left alone. She can kill your opponent, draw a new hand, or even board wipe.
I don't know if I like Pia and Kiran Nalaar right now. Sure they are great against the small aggro decks or the go-wide decks and in conjunction with Kolaghan's Command you get to basically run multiple copies of them. It is the red Lingering Souls! My only concern is that with Eldrazi running rampant they only really fear your thopters and that can be answered easily in the UW or UR list. I think we do very well against the other aggro decks so devoting a slot to Ma and Pa seems like overkill.
Hey everyone, i am currently building this deck as i already own the core. I just need my discard spells and i'm pretty much set.
Now what i wonder is: All your lists are really really heavy on control. Would it be worth to make the list a bit more Midrange with Gurmag Anglers and Tasigurs as threats along the Cruel Ultimatum? For reference my current list looks like this:
Still not sure about the Sideboard to be honest. Also i really want to run a 2nd Cruel Ultimatum. As for Sire of Stagnation: That card is just so much fun to play. Obviously it dies to everything, but drawing up to 4 cards per turn feels soooo goooooood
I think if you want to go this route you need someway to power out your delve spells quicker. Thought Scour is an obvious choice but if you want to select cards than Faithless Looting is the alternative. Either way I would consider dropping the Cryptics in favor for more discard spells or Kolaghan's Command. You are trying to be a draw-go style control but your creatures favor a more tap-out style.
I'm also not a huge fan of Spell Snare right now. It is great against some of the aggro decks but it isn't too great against the Eldrazi and with them being the dominating deck I would rather prioritize combating them.
Good work Xremag! You should Rune Snag if you want 4 of that effect in the 60. I would consider Anger of the Gods.
More thoughts to come.
Radiant Flames has done be some good in the past in conjunction with Kalitas and it saves my own guys however after facing multiple Voices against the Company deck I think I still need Anger even if it is harder on the mana. With the current plan Radiant might as well be a turn 5 plan which is something I cannot afford against that combo deck.
As for Rune Snag I have debated it. I like that it is useful late game but running the full Snaps make it worse when you flashback them too often. I may test it.
I return from a long period of trying other decks. This list is what I played at SCG Louisville. Long story short with Twin gone I felt the latest Grixis Control list wasn't going to fit in this new Eldrazi world so I swapped back to the Cruel list. I went 6-3 placing 113th. Missed day 2 sadly
Now before anyone ask I somehow played 9 rounds without ever playing against a single Eldrazi list, but I did some testing with some friends and I felt that the deck could hold its own against most of the Eldrazi list. My most trouble was from the RG Eldrazi list.
Won against:
RW Prison
Affinity, Elves, Infect, Lantern Control, Grixis Control
Lost against:
Merfolk (play error, fetched the wrong land and stumbled on multiple lords)
Lantern Control (play error, fear of bridge I held counter for it instead of Grafdigger's Cage, drew all of the Snaps)
Abzan Company (Went to time and he had infinite life. Did not draw either Ashioks, but did have 15 zombies from the Grave Dad so I couldn't lose)
Going forward I want to cut Ma and Pa and the Vampiric Links from the Sideboard. With Burn on the decline and maindeck lifelink I feel I can fight them a lot better this time around so devoting a slot for them seems wasted. Pia and Kiran just weren't doing what I wanted them to do and would of rather had some Negate.
I would appreciate some feedback as I believe the list has potential and want to go to GP Detroit.
As far as I can tell from playing this style deck over a long period of time and from being a small part of this forum and reading everyone's opinions and tournament results it is that the no one can agree on one build that is even the same 50 cards let alone an exact 75.
It is certainly one of the interesting parts of the deck. Though we all have a similar shell (some number of counterspells/kill spells w/ Cruel Ultimatum); we can all go different directions on how to approach the deck. Recently I've gone the route of Young Pyromancer for an early game threat. So long as we are playing the Ultimatum we are still cruel
Hi everybody, I just put together a cruel control deck and I'm looking for some advice to take it into an unknown meta.
First, I realize nicol bolas isn't an ideal card but the flavor interaction between it and cruel ultimatum is too good for me to pass up. Now for my questions/thoughts,
Jace seems pretty good, both to blank token strategies like B/W tokens or Twin, but also because his -2 is a skill check on the opponent. Is 2 copies too much? Should he be in the sideboard?
What is the ideal number of counterspells? Is mana leak better than rune snag? Condescend is decent because it have scry 2, but is Logic Knot better? Should I have more copies of spell snare?
Life total seems to be a problem with only cruel ultimatum being able to gain life, should batterskull be in the main? If so how many copies?
Dreadbore vs Terminate, the former doesn't prevent regeneration but it seems like that's not too much of a problem in modern, and it's nice to have a 2 mana kill spell against planeswalkers. Is this ok or should it be 3x Terminate?
Suffer the Past seems like it would be good against burn, mainly for the life gain and preventing grim lavamancer but other than that it seems kind of lackluster. I'm open to ideas
Kolaghan's Command is a card I'll be adding, but not sure what to cut in the main.
I have 25 lands, is that too few? Is 4 manlands too many? Also I'm open to suggestions about the distribution/color balance.
More general, given that I'm going into an unknown meta what potential cards am i missing either in main or sideboard?
1. I constantly swap between 1-2 Jace, AoT. He is a really strong walker for the current meta with all of the Twin and Lingering Souls decks running rampant. I would run 2 if your meta has a good amount of Twin/Tokens, while run only the 1 if it is a minority.
2. I don't know if their is a decided number of counterspells but I believe we don't run any more than 10. Most list show a split between Leaks, Snare, and Cryptic with some 1-ofs in between. Rune Snag is better late game than Mana Leak, but is a nombo with Snapcaster and Tasigur (if you decide to run him). Condescend and Logic Knot are pretty good I guess it depends how much of your graveyard you are utilizing. As for Spell Snare 1 can be fine but I would certainly not run more than 2.
3. You bring up a great point and I would run Batterskull main. 1 is fine, but if you are having trouble against very aggressive decks than you could bump it up to 2. Just be careful you don't run too many win cons and no way to get to them.
4. I still run the split between Terminate and Dreadbore for a few reasons. I like the ability to kill a walker without the use of burn spells and because when game 2 starts up against certain decks they like to bring in Dispel to stop our spells so it is nice to have an answer that players are not ready for. Overall Terminate is a better spell because it it an instant, but Dreadbore is still a solid spell.
5. Suffer is generally good against any deck that fills their yard AND is threatening an aggressive early game. I think you have it spot on.
6. -1 Electrolyze +1 Kolaghan's Command, if you don't like that cut back on 1 Anticipate. The new Command is very good and gives us amazing answers game 1 and is one of the reasons why I have shifted from Sowing Salts to Fulminator Mages.
7. 25 is fine, but I was never really impressed by Lavaclaw Reaches. I think when it is good is up against the decks that can't answer the land at all which is primarily Tron whereas Creeping Tar Pit is always good and gives us more relevant colors. You run a good amount of basics which is great against getting Blood Mooned but I worry if you will have the right mana when you need it most. Fetches are your friend.
8. I think you have all of the core cards in and your sideboard is diverse so you should do fine in an unknown meta. Maybe make room for a Dispel or Counterflux in the side.
Best of luck
Hello again and sorry for the late response Lil Bolas, im glad to be here :). I've been testing my version of the cruel deck. You suggested reducing Tectonic Edge due to cruel mana. I initially ran 3x to have more ways to deal with U/W/R Control man-lands. But lately, i've been thinking of adding Smother , since it takes care of almost every early modern threat. But the main problem I found with the deck is against burn. The deck has little to no interaction early game, and late game you spend too much mana trying to counted whatever is coming your way so you don't have time to deploy Cruel Ultimatum or a Batterskull . Im looking for any suggestions to counter burn and any lands i can add in place of ech edge
Dispel is one of your greatest tools against Burn because a large portion of their burn spells are instant speed so the ability to hold up a one mana counterspell is crucial in the matchup. Another all-star is Spell Snare. Stops their powerful spells such as Lightning Helix, Eidolon, Boros Charm, and Skullcrack. I use to run 2-3 Dragon's Claw in the side but Burn has learned from this and pack cards like Destructive Revelry to punish us for bringing in such tools. I currently use Monastery Siege and cheap counterspells to fight Burn. The Siege, when protected, makes playing Burn very taxing and forces them to invest in large amounts of mana to cast simple spells. Now Siege is also weak to the revelry but I would rather they pay 4 mana to destroy it than 2.
As for lands some people recommend Ghost Quarter to replace Tec Edge. I actually recently stopped running both because I felt that I can combat the land fight with Fulminator Mage as it is cheaper and not as restrictive as Tec Edge and it doesn't give my opponent a new basic to work with. Best part of the Fulminator is that he can be brought back with the new Command to grant us a menacing advantage. I like Smother as a catch-most kill spell, it is the reason why I run a one-of Consume the Meek to deal with an army of inkmoths and mutavaults.
Beat Abzan Twice, and lost to Mono Blue Tron and Burn.
I'm probably going to move away from the Teachings package and play more of a hard-core control deck. Teachings is just a little too slow in my meta I think. I'll probably be testing things like Logic Knot and Rune Snag and maybe even main-decked Keranos.
Mono Blue Tron feels like a nightmare. Any recommendations how to deal with it?
If I remember correctly Mono-U Tron is mostly counterspells and artifact recursion with Academy Ruins + Mindslaver lock. One big problem for them is a resolved Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir as it turns off a large portion of their cards and devalues Thirst for Knowledge. You run enough artifact and graveyard hate so you shouldn't be getting locked down anytime soon. I do see however that your only way to interact with their hand is Cruels and the Command. Thoughtseize and Vendilion Cliqueare amazing against decks like these that need crucial pieces to function so consider 1 or 2 of them in the Side if you don't like them Main. Honestly I like your deck as is against Tron so maybe you just didn't draw the ideal cards for the given time.
Here is my go at Cruel Control. I included white to incorperate cards like Esper Charm, path to exile and Narset Transcendent. Now personally i love the idea of Narset Transcendent in this deck since we have a really punishing spell to cast with rebound. I would love to get some pointers as to where I could improve upon this deck.
I have always debated the splash into other colors as both white and green offer a great amount of utility that fix some of the inherent problems of Grixis. White offers amazing hose cards (Wear//Tear), draw speed (Esper Charm), and premier removal (Path to Exile) while green can offer a great start for our early game (Tarmogoyf) and powerful removal (Abrupt Decay) for pesky permanents. The biggest problem with going into multiple colors is that you start trading consistency for versatility and it is important to know when you have too much of one and not enough of the other. Sure Blood Moon gets better with every color you add but the card already is a brutal hoser for us anyway so if the splash into white or green helps you IF it resolves than more power to you. I like your list a lot actually, I would use a shell like that and maybe incorporate a Mystical Teachings package. Double Teachings for plenty of answers and nothing sounds more obnoxious than a Double Cruel
I don't have much experience with cruel control in just grixis, but I played it the entire time we had ultimatum + vivid lands in standard. My assumption would be that a 4/5 color mana base off of vivid lands + reflecting pools would be LESS painful, but basically half a turn slower. So, the question becomes, can you be efficient enough to survive long enough to "turn the corner" from a half-turn deficit? If you can, the 4c vivid/reflecting pool version is extremely powerful, offering the best of everything--slot removal, countermagic, planeswalkers, threats... It's a question of tradeoffs.
Personally I think the only land that come into play tapped (excluding shocks of course) that are worth it are Creeping Tar Pit. It is just too risky to have Vivids out in this format. Sure you shave off some damage done to yourself but now that your opponent knows you are playing slow they can abuse you. If you are looking to expand you color selection less painfully try using the filter lands and the checklands. I would never recommend more than half your lands being filter/check lands but Sunken Ruins and Sulfur Falls are great cards. If you decide to move into a 4th color you can even use Mystic Gate.
So, I'm a long time fan of this thread and I'm finally emerging from the shadows of my mother's basement to comment. I've been playing casual and Standard for a while, but I'm looking to make my first serious modern deck. I love anything and everything Grixis, so this seemed like a good choice. You guys seem like the interweb's foremost experts on Cruel Control, so any feedback on my build would be much appreciated.
I'm a bit shaky in the land department, and I plan on tossing in another snapcaster and some cryptic command when I get more money, but this is what I have built right now.
I can understand the budget it is quite obnoxious the price of some of these cards. If you are going for a Teachings package I have always like using it to grab 0 drop spells such as Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation. With the Dreadship Reef and Molten Slagheap you can easily bank plenty of mana to pay for their upkeep costs. Also don't forget that creatures can have flash too. Sulfur Elemental, Izzet Staticaster, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, and Venser, Shaper Savant are really great cards that can help you out in a bind plus the extra creatures gives you more value out of your Kolaghan's Commands.
I am a lurker on this forum, and I want to make a cruel modern deck. However, it is driving me mad that I cannot think of a solution to a resolved Leyline of Sanctity. Do you guys just side out discard and some burn if you are expecting it game 2? Is there an answer to it besides Negate or Countersquall? Or is it just a total pain in the buttskey?! Thanks guys, I enjoy reading this thread especially compared to some of the other primers.
I still keep in discard and burn against Leyline decks because even though they may have it in the opener I still run Cryptic Command to return it to hand at end of turn. Once your turn runs around you can seize it away and any other cards if you draw too many throughout the game. With Leyline you need to be patient and just deal with the fact that you can't target them for awhile. In the decks that bring it in it is because they need to stall out against you (exception being Bogles) and they are just trying to buy out time till they can turn onto the offense. For Bogles they use it so we cannot edict them, but if your meta is Bogles filled you can hope to resolve Anger of the Gods before they get too big. If your meta has a large number of Leyline users you can always admit defeat and bring in cards like Boomerang or Venser, Shaper Savant to remove them. Hell, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker laughs in the face of Leyline.
Which is perfectly fine; with those two cards I can get back Snapcaster, kill a dude/make them discard, and search for any relevant instant spell I need. No matter how the pile is split, I have access to Cruel Ultimatum.
There's also the standard four pieces of removal pile to consider. It's harder to achieve a four wrath pile in these colors without dipping into some bad stuff like Crux of Fate and Cyclonic Rift. If you really wanted to go deep there's always a flashback pile if you add more stuff like Forbidden Alchemy.
But the main problem is that, with all these configurations, you're basically using Gifts fairly. One would think that if you really wanted to make it really useful, you'd have to dip into white to allow for Unburial Rites.
I don't think we need to dip into another color quite yet but it is an interesting thought. I do really like the piles laid out and it isn't the only one. Snapcaster Mage, Tasigur, The Golden Fang, Kolaghan's Command, and a 4th pick will generate a great amount of value and will generally net you a card you are looking for. This is just making the new command more attractive of an option
I may test out Gifts Ungiven now.
Finally have some free time to type this up but yesterday was my FLGS Modern night.
We sadly had a low turn out but had at least enough people to start up 3 rounds. Looks like this week everyone wanted to experiment with new tools so I was caught off guard by the decks.
Here is my list for reference and after today will certainly be tuning it.
Match 1 - Mono White Prison
I literally just complained about it in my last post and what happens...the deck appears. Game 1 gave me nearly all burn and zero disruption. He was able to land a Nevermore naming Cryptic Command followed swiftly with a Leyline of Sanctity. Luckily for me I was able to draw in my Snaps so I went for the beatdown plan. I got him down to his last 6 life before the fort was assembled and couldn't attack anymore so I opted to go for the Jace Ult and I did...sadly I made a play mistake and used his Oblivion Ring on Runed Halo calling Bolt thinking I can just land a Cruel and Bolt for game. Completely forgot that he had Leyline in play and threw away the game. Game 2 was nearly identical to the first except Kolaghan's Command removed both Defense Grid and Pithing Needle leading to some quick Bolts and Counter control. Game 3 never was finished because we took up too much time.
1-1-1 Tie
Match 2 Big Naya Zoo
Was a typical Naya Zoo deck except he loaded the deck with Collected Company. Game 1 was a joke as I only had 3 lands for about 8 turns straight while my opponent nearly had all of his lands in play. I eventually draw the 4th and take over the game. Game 2 drew 3 Tar Pits and 4 Shocks...got Blood Mooned...I lost. Game 3 was pretty close but he just drew better than I did and was able to keep his threats online. Had plenty of burn but his Knight of the Reliquary were 7/7s.
1-2 Lost
Match 3 UG Merfolk
Another aggro deck trying out the new Collected Company. Game 1 was pretty close as he was able to put 2 Lords into play at my end step. Luckily for me I had Consume the Meek so I took care of all of the fish and a Mutavault. He ran out of threats after that. Game 2 he had a very explosive start that I just wasn't able to deal with. I needed a boardwipe for his islandwalkers and all I had was Snaps. Game 3 He got mana screwed and I was sitting on all of the disruption possible. Killed 2 Aether Vials, a handful of Lords, and even stripped him of his green source for his Companies.
2-1 Won
Overall it was a good experience and was interesting to see what Collect Company can do for decks. I have to say for nearly every game I was really looking for some more raw draw and running only 2 Anticipates isn't going to cut it. I am thinking of making a swap to 4 of them and cutting back on some of my 2 ofs. Will still have to see what I want to do. May even explore turning the deck back into a Cruel Teachings deck.
In my earliest play-testings of Cruel Control I actually use to run a Nicol in the Sideboard for the Jund matchup and the random Mono White Prison matchup (very annoying match btw) and I have to say at times I do miss running him even now. I think Nicol, whether hard casted or tutored from Jace, Architect of Thought, is an insane amount of advantage given to the player that can make it tempting to play over Cruel. My complaint that I had with Nicol and overall why I stopped running him was that he was an 8-drop that if countered/destroyed/discarded I had no way of ever getting him back. The overall loss in tempo was backbreaking. This is where Snapcaster Mage shined for me as an early game blocker and late game he was hitting back my Cruels something Nicol only wish he could do. Now keep in mind this is predating Theros block and a lot has changed. I can see myself replaying Nicol with his new subject Tasigur, The Golden Fang so even if Nicol were to fall he has a chance to come back. I would absolutely play Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker if my meta was very midrange dominate, but my current meta is very diverse with a slight lean towards combo and I only reserve silver bullets if I struggle too much against them. Nicol will always be apart of my maybe-board. This is my 2 cents on the subject.
I mean I would be pretty glad if they didn't take the land from Ghost Quarter. Puts them down a land and makes our Mana Leaks better. You get a win-win situation. Tombstalker was just a suggestion. With so many decks looking to win by attacking from the ground you can just fly over them and I saw you are running 4 Delve creatures.
I wouldn't really worry too much about graveyard hate. The deck naturally attracts people to bring in graveyard hate so I would just worry about stopping it from happening.
Also Accumulated Knowledge isn't modern legal sadly.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
I usually think about FNM before any real big time event. I have 2 Eldrazi players at my LGS I basically have a side Side Board for when I play local or travel for tournaments.
Draw-go favors a lot of 2 for 1 so cards like Electrolyze, Remand and Cryptic Command go a long way. You could pair your Sire of Stagnation with Ghost Quarter to really get some good value. Even Shadow of Doubt is great with Ghost Quarters and cause it replaces itself you can pretty much Sinkhole your opponent and draw a new card to threaten with.
Languish is great with your big body threats. Any creature you play that can survive the wrath pairs well with it. Have you considered Tombstalker?
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
Venser, Shaper Savant
Boomerang and Remand on a stick. Can be reused with Kolaghan's Command and pairs well with discard spells. Can be used to disrupt Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher
Night of Souls' Betrayal
Format filled with aggro decks and go-wide decks. X/1 creatures die while x/4 creatures now die to Bolt. Sadly makes Snapcaster Mage a noncreature spell and Wandering Fumarole a blocker.
Rune Snag (props to Lil Bolas)
The alternative to Mana Leak. 1st cast worse, 2nd cast better, 3rd and 4th might as well be Counterspell. Gets worse with Snap. Could always convert to 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and 2 Snaps.
Chandra, Flamecaller (props to CableTV)
Swiss army knife planeswalker. Red Elspeth, Sun's Champion?
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
23 Lands! Pretty low count but you also run a large amount of draw spells so it probably works. I have debated trying out Chandra, Flamecaller. She looks like she can just win the game if left alone. She can kill your opponent, draw a new hand, or even board wipe.
I don't know if I like Pia and Kiran Nalaar right now. Sure they are great against the small aggro decks or the go-wide decks and in conjunction with Kolaghan's Command you get to basically run multiple copies of them. It is the red Lingering Souls! My only concern is that with Eldrazi running rampant they only really fear your thopters and that can be answered easily in the UW or UR list. I think we do very well against the other aggro decks so devoting a slot to Ma and Pa seems like overkill.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
I think if you want to go this route you need someway to power out your delve spells quicker. Thought Scour is an obvious choice but if you want to select cards than Faithless Looting is the alternative. Either way I would consider dropping the Cryptics in favor for more discard spells or Kolaghan's Command. You are trying to be a draw-go style control but your creatures favor a more tap-out style.
I'm also not a huge fan of Spell Snare right now. It is great against some of the aggro decks but it isn't too great against the Eldrazi and with them being the dominating deck I would rather prioritize combating them.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
Radiant Flames has done be some good in the past in conjunction with Kalitas and it saves my own guys however after facing multiple Voices against the Company deck I think I still need Anger even if it is harder on the mana. With the current plan Radiant might as well be a turn 5 plan which is something I cannot afford against that combo deck.
As for Rune Snag I have debated it. I like that it is useful late game but running the full Snaps make it worse when you flashback them too often. I may test it.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cascade BLuffs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
1 Smoldering Marsh
2 Steam Vents
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Swamp
2 Wandering Fumarole
1 Watery Grave
1 Grave Titan
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Snapcaster Mage
Noncreature Spells (26)
1 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Serum Visions
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Terminate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Dispel
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Radiant Flames
2 Vampiric Link
2 Vandalblast
I return from a long period of trying other decks. This list is what I played at SCG Louisville. Long story short with Twin gone I felt the latest Grixis Control list wasn't going to fit in this new Eldrazi world so I swapped back to the Cruel list. I went 6-3 placing 113th. Missed day 2 sadly
Now before anyone ask I somehow played 9 rounds without ever playing against a single Eldrazi list, but I did some testing with some friends and I felt that the deck could hold its own against most of the Eldrazi list. My most trouble was from the RG Eldrazi list.
Won against:
RW Prison
Affinity, Elves, Infect, Lantern Control, Grixis Control
Lost against:
Merfolk (play error, fetched the wrong land and stumbled on multiple lords)
Lantern Control (play error, fear of bridge I held counter for it instead of Grafdigger's Cage, drew all of the Snaps)
Abzan Company (Went to time and he had infinite life. Did not draw either Ashioks, but did have 15 zombies from the Grave Dad so I couldn't lose)
Going forward I want to cut Ma and Pa and the Vampiric Links from the Sideboard. With Burn on the decline and maindeck lifelink I feel I can fight them a lot better this time around so devoting a slot for them seems wasted. Pia and Kiran just weren't doing what I wanted them to do and would of rather had some Negate.
I would appreciate some feedback as I believe the list has potential and want to go to GP Detroit.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
It is certainly one of the interesting parts of the deck. Though we all have a similar shell (some number of counterspells/kill spells w/ Cruel Ultimatum); we can all go different directions on how to approach the deck. Recently I've gone the route of Young Pyromancer for an early game threat. So long as we are playing the Ultimatum we are still cruel
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
1. I constantly swap between 1-2 Jace, AoT. He is a really strong walker for the current meta with all of the Twin and Lingering Souls decks running rampant. I would run 2 if your meta has a good amount of Twin/Tokens, while run only the 1 if it is a minority.
2. I don't know if their is a decided number of counterspells but I believe we don't run any more than 10. Most list show a split between Leaks, Snare, and Cryptic with some 1-ofs in between. Rune Snag is better late game than Mana Leak, but is a nombo with Snapcaster and Tasigur (if you decide to run him). Condescend and Logic Knot are pretty good I guess it depends how much of your graveyard you are utilizing. As for Spell Snare 1 can be fine but I would certainly not run more than 2.
3. You bring up a great point and I would run Batterskull main. 1 is fine, but if you are having trouble against very aggressive decks than you could bump it up to 2. Just be careful you don't run too many win cons and no way to get to them.
4. I still run the split between Terminate and Dreadbore for a few reasons. I like the ability to kill a walker without the use of burn spells and because when game 2 starts up against certain decks they like to bring in Dispel to stop our spells so it is nice to have an answer that players are not ready for. Overall Terminate is a better spell because it it an instant, but Dreadbore is still a solid spell.
5. Suffer is generally good against any deck that fills their yard AND is threatening an aggressive early game. I think you have it spot on.
6. -1 Electrolyze +1 Kolaghan's Command, if you don't like that cut back on 1 Anticipate. The new Command is very good and gives us amazing answers game 1 and is one of the reasons why I have shifted from Sowing Salts to Fulminator Mages.
7. 25 is fine, but I was never really impressed by Lavaclaw Reaches. I think when it is good is up against the decks that can't answer the land at all which is primarily Tron whereas Creeping Tar Pit is always good and gives us more relevant colors. You run a good amount of basics which is great against getting Blood Mooned but I worry if you will have the right mana when you need it most. Fetches are your friend.
8. I think you have all of the core cards in and your sideboard is diverse so you should do fine in an unknown meta. Maybe make room for a Dispel or Counterflux in the side.
Best of luck
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
Dispel is one of your greatest tools against Burn because a large portion of their burn spells are instant speed so the ability to hold up a one mana counterspell is crucial in the matchup. Another all-star is Spell Snare. Stops their powerful spells such as Lightning Helix, Eidolon, Boros Charm, and Skullcrack. I use to run 2-3 Dragon's Claw in the side but Burn has learned from this and pack cards like Destructive Revelry to punish us for bringing in such tools. I currently use Monastery Siege and cheap counterspells to fight Burn. The Siege, when protected, makes playing Burn very taxing and forces them to invest in large amounts of mana to cast simple spells. Now Siege is also weak to the revelry but I would rather they pay 4 mana to destroy it than 2.
As for lands some people recommend Ghost Quarter to replace Tec Edge. I actually recently stopped running both because I felt that I can combat the land fight with Fulminator Mage as it is cheaper and not as restrictive as Tec Edge and it doesn't give my opponent a new basic to work with. Best part of the Fulminator is that he can be brought back with the new Command to grant us a menacing advantage. I like Smother as a catch-most kill spell, it is the reason why I run a one-of Consume the Meek to deal with an army of inkmoths and mutavaults.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
If I remember correctly Mono-U Tron is mostly counterspells and artifact recursion with Academy Ruins + Mindslaver lock. One big problem for them is a resolved Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir as it turns off a large portion of their cards and devalues Thirst for Knowledge. You run enough artifact and graveyard hate so you shouldn't be getting locked down anytime soon. I do see however that your only way to interact with their hand is Cruels and the Command. Thoughtseize and Vendilion Cliqueare amazing against decks like these that need crucial pieces to function so consider 1 or 2 of them in the Side if you don't like them Main. Honestly I like your deck as is against Tron so maybe you just didn't draw the ideal cards for the given time.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
I have always debated the splash into other colors as both white and green offer a great amount of utility that fix some of the inherent problems of Grixis. White offers amazing hose cards (Wear//Tear), draw speed (Esper Charm), and premier removal (Path to Exile) while green can offer a great start for our early game (Tarmogoyf) and powerful removal (Abrupt Decay) for pesky permanents. The biggest problem with going into multiple colors is that you start trading consistency for versatility and it is important to know when you have too much of one and not enough of the other. Sure Blood Moon gets better with every color you add but the card already is a brutal hoser for us anyway so if the splash into white or green helps you IF it resolves than more power to you. I like your list a lot actually, I would use a shell like that and maybe incorporate a Mystical Teachings package. Double Teachings for plenty of answers and nothing sounds more obnoxious than a Double Cruel
Personally I think the only land that come into play tapped (excluding shocks of course) that are worth it are Creeping Tar Pit. It is just too risky to have Vivids out in this format. Sure you shave off some damage done to yourself but now that your opponent knows you are playing slow they can abuse you. If you are looking to expand you color selection less painfully try using the filter lands and the checklands. I would never recommend more than half your lands being filter/check lands but Sunken Ruins and Sulfur Falls are great cards. If you decide to move into a 4th color you can even use Mystic Gate.
I can understand the budget it is quite obnoxious the price of some of these cards. If you are going for a Teachings package I have always like using it to grab 0 drop spells such as Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation. With the Dreadship Reef and Molten Slagheap you can easily bank plenty of mana to pay for their upkeep costs. Also don't forget that creatures can have flash too. Sulfur Elemental, Izzet Staticaster, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, and Venser, Shaper Savant are really great cards that can help you out in a bind plus the extra creatures gives you more value out of your Kolaghan's Commands.
I still keep in discard and burn against Leyline decks because even though they may have it in the opener I still run Cryptic Command to return it to hand at end of turn. Once your turn runs around you can seize it away and any other cards if you draw too many throughout the game. With Leyline you need to be patient and just deal with the fact that you can't target them for awhile. In the decks that bring it in it is because they need to stall out against you (exception being Bogles) and they are just trying to buy out time till they can turn onto the offense. For Bogles they use it so we cannot edict them, but if your meta is Bogles filled you can hope to resolve Anger of the Gods before they get too big. If your meta has a large number of Leyline users you can always admit defeat and bring in cards like Boomerang or Venser, Shaper Savant to remove them. Hell, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker laughs in the face of Leyline.
I hope this helped out.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
I don't think we need to dip into another color quite yet but it is an interesting thought. I do really like the piles laid out and it isn't the only one. Snapcaster Mage, Tasigur, The Golden Fang, Kolaghan's Command, and a 4th pick will generate a great amount of value and will generally net you a card you are looking for. This is just making the new command more attractive of an option
I may test out Gifts Ungiven now.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
We sadly had a low turn out but had at least enough people to start up 3 rounds. Looks like this week everyone wanted to experiment with new tools so I was caught off guard by the decks.
Here is my list for reference and after today will certainly be tuning it.
1 Batterskull
Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Enchantment
1 Monastery Siege
Instant
2 Anticipate
1 Consume the Meek
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
1 Izzet Charm
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Spell Snare
1 Terminate
Planeswalker
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Damnation
1 Dreadbore
2 Thoughtseize
Land
1 Blood Crypt
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Watery Grave
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Monastery Siege
1 Countersquall
1 Dispel
1 Flashfreeze
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
Match 1 - Mono White Prison
I literally just complained about it in my last post and what happens...the deck appears. Game 1 gave me nearly all burn and zero disruption. He was able to land a Nevermore naming Cryptic Command followed swiftly with a Leyline of Sanctity. Luckily for me I was able to draw in my Snaps so I went for the beatdown plan. I got him down to his last 6 life before the fort was assembled and couldn't attack anymore so I opted to go for the Jace Ult and I did...sadly I made a play mistake and used his Oblivion Ring on Runed Halo calling Bolt thinking I can just land a Cruel and Bolt for game. Completely forgot that he had Leyline in play and threw away the game. Game 2 was nearly identical to the first except Kolaghan's Command removed both Defense Grid and Pithing Needle leading to some quick Bolts and Counter control. Game 3 never was finished because we took up too much time.
1-1-1 Tie
Match 2 Big Naya Zoo
Was a typical Naya Zoo deck except he loaded the deck with Collected Company. Game 1 was a joke as I only had 3 lands for about 8 turns straight while my opponent nearly had all of his lands in play. I eventually draw the 4th and take over the game. Game 2 drew 3 Tar Pits and 4 Shocks...got Blood Mooned...I lost. Game 3 was pretty close but he just drew better than I did and was able to keep his threats online. Had plenty of burn but his Knight of the Reliquary were 7/7s.
1-2 Lost
Match 3 UG Merfolk
Another aggro deck trying out the new Collected Company. Game 1 was pretty close as he was able to put 2 Lords into play at my end step. Luckily for me I had Consume the Meek so I took care of all of the fish and a Mutavault. He ran out of threats after that. Game 2 he had a very explosive start that I just wasn't able to deal with. I needed a boardwipe for his islandwalkers and all I had was Snaps. Game 3 He got mana screwed and I was sitting on all of the disruption possible. Killed 2 Aether Vials, a handful of Lords, and even stripped him of his green source for his Companies.
2-1 Won
Overall it was a good experience and was interesting to see what Collect Company can do for decks. I have to say for nearly every game I was really looking for some more raw draw and running only 2 Anticipates isn't going to cut it. I am thinking of making a swap to 4 of them and cutting back on some of my 2 ofs. Will still have to see what I want to do. May even explore turning the deck back into a Cruel Teachings deck.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/
In my earliest play-testings of Cruel Control I actually use to run a Nicol in the Sideboard for the Jund matchup and the random Mono White Prison matchup (very annoying match btw) and I have to say at times I do miss running him even now. I think Nicol, whether hard casted or tutored from Jace, Architect of Thought, is an insane amount of advantage given to the player that can make it tempting to play over Cruel. My complaint that I had with Nicol and overall why I stopped running him was that he was an 8-drop that if countered/destroyed/discarded I had no way of ever getting him back. The overall loss in tempo was backbreaking. This is where Snapcaster Mage shined for me as an early game blocker and late game he was hitting back my Cruels something Nicol only wish he could do. Now keep in mind this is predating Theros block and a lot has changed. I can see myself replaying Nicol with his new subject Tasigur, The Golden Fang so even if Nicol were to fall he has a chance to come back. I would absolutely play Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker if my meta was very midrange dominate, but my current meta is very diverse with a slight lean towards combo and I only reserve silver bullets if I struggle too much against them. Nicol will always be apart of my maybe-board. This is my 2 cents on the subject.
UBx Tezzeret: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-06-17-ub-tezzeret/