So, what are people's thoughts on my idea of running Isochron Scepter. With Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek, we can get rid of Abrupt Decay, and even if they draw another one soon we probably will have gotten some card advantage from it.
that would be worth a try if scepter could imprint sorceries
I don't like cutting remand because it lets you keep some 2 land hands. Mulliganing against decks that play discard is not very fun. Plus jund has a very greedy mana base, so you can remand their spell and they might not be able to re-cast it.
The more I think about it, the more I don't think consume the meek should be in the deck (or the sideboard). The way most games play out you kill all their stuff, so you won't get any insane blow outs with the 5 mana instant speed wrath. The other esper decks could play consume the meek because they play rest for the weary to buy time, and they play cheaper wraths, so they can set up multiple blow outs with each wrath. Plus Wafo's deck can have a hard time getting double black on turn 5. However the counter argument is that consume the meek can save you from a lot of bad situations and you can tutor for it if needed. If you really want a wrath I think supreme verdict is better. Or if you really want to kill man lands play another terminate instead.
Slay is pretty sweet, but it seems like the sideboard slots are really tight. I think there needs to be 1 darkblast in the board. Shadow of doubt is another consideration for the board, it cantrips!!! Lightning helix and rest for the weary are other considerations to think about.
I haven't played vs jund yet, so I don't know how the games get played out. I don't know if snapcaster is bad since they might board in rakdos charms or just sit back on their deathrite. Snapcaster is an answer to bloodbraid, so I don't know if you should cut him. I don't know if consume the meek will get insane value, i'm guessing it won't since the games should be really grindy.
But yeah I could see boarding in the purge, 2 timelys, and the tec edge/spreading seas. Maybe board in counter flux as a counter to BBE?
I could see cutting 1-3 izzet charms since they are terrible top decks in this attrition war. I could see cutting consume the meek since it's a slow card that might not get much value. If you board in counterflux i could see cutting snapcasters. Can you cut 1 cryptic and 1 teachings since they're slow?
So I finally got around to playing this deck in a semi serious tournament, Thursday night magic.
I lost round 1 to a stupid u/b tron deck playing platinum angel, sundering titan and mind slaver. Game 2 he had academy ruins which I didn't see till then, otherwise i would have boarded in extirpate. I didn't really know what his deck did, I probably could have played better. In game 3 I cryptic'd his thirst for knowledge on my turn, which let him play turn 4 sundering titan (which i didn't see till that game). He basically nut drew the tron lands and the perfect fatty without any searching or card draw
Round 2 I beat the U/W deck that won the modo ptq. It's amazing how this deck can come from behind if there's no pressure. All your non land draws are so good it's insane. I was like 4-5 lands behind him, but he didn't apply any pressure and I slowly came back into the game. The opponent even got to revelation first and I still beat him. The deck played 4 finks, but I was able to grind through the with snapcaster and electrolyze.
Round 3 opponent didn't show. Easy 2 packs (1.6 ticket profit), though my matches were the last to finish each round!
Sideboarding with this deck is very particular. You can't take out cantrips because they make the deck function. So you're left with taking out lightning bolt (4), izzet charms (3), terminate (1) , dismember (1) , consume the meek (1). Though the last 3 cards are pretty good against most decks, so you really only have 7 easy cuts, when you can potentially board in 11 cards.
I don't really like boarding out lightning bolt, since bolt + snapcaster + bolt + attack is a lot of damage. But I did side bolts out against the UW deck and it worked out fine.
I really want to add a calciform pools to the deck, but I don't know which land to cut. I like the miser tec edge since it helps get you to the late game where this deck shines. I could see cutting the mystic gate as it's pretty bad in your opener as the charge land would be.
I thought the Split Second clause on Extirpate would mean the world, but I went back to Surgical Extraction when I realized that it isn't as big in this format as being able to cast Surgical for 2 life. Time it reasonably well and you should be able to hit exactly what you need. It also helps your tempo considerably when you run Snapcaster Mage.
Yeah split second only matters vs combo decks with counters, and eggs. But the twin match up is pretty bad that extirpate might be worth playing. The cards are pretty close in power level that I don't think there's a wrong choice. It just depends on your meta.
I thought extirpate stops people from casting spells? So they can't cast their exarch out of their hand, you get to remove it. And obviously it can't be countered, which matters in that match up. Also spell snare sucks vs twin.
3. I still like Surgical Extraction a lot vs. all of the combo decks in the format except Splinter Twin, which it's mostly garbage against. That might be this decks toughest combo matchup.
If you remove the exarch you're like a 99% favorite or something since all your cards cantrip or deal with pestermite and kiki, plus esper charm kills splinter twin and blood moon. Though I guess being able to cast surgical for free against storm is pretty good. And the only time extirpate matters vs tron is if they have an active relic, which rarely comes up.
5. Electrolyze was the nut for me tonight. In one game I blew up two Pilgrims, then two turns later Snapcaster'd it back to kill two Mindcensors. That was a beating.
Yeah i'm surprised how good that card is. And shock is surprisingly playable. You could play a card that did 2 damage to a creature or 3 damage to a player and it would be fine 95% of the time.
8. I kind of want a Spell Snare in the main. I like that it's a little bit of on-the-draw insurance, and I think it's actually super well positioned right now. Sakura Tribe Elders and Farseeks, Remand, Mana Leak, Rituals, Pyromancer's Ascension, Sylvan Scrying, Goyf, Bob, Snapcaster, all of Affinity's good cards, and so forth. I will likely cut a Snapcaster for it and see what happens.
I don't know if you need spell snare. All the cantrips get you back in it on the draw. The UW decks can't really catch up in this format, so they have to play spell snare. Plus playing 4 cryptics give you answers to everything. I guess you could remove some izzet charms for spell snare and not notice the difference too much.
Has anyone tested Spreading Seas or Molten Rain in the SB? I can beat Tron, but sometimes it feels so lopsided when they just Stirring into Eye and you're short on burn.
I don't think moltern rain does anything vs tron. 1 for 1ing them doesn't do much if you don't have a clock. Molten rain is extremely good if you can turn 2 it on the play (obviously this deck can't do it). Spreading seas seems like a perfect fit in this deck though since it cantrips. It's probably better than the tec edge in the board.
In the Jund matchup I've been added Celestial Purge if they're playing Liliana and the two Timely Reinforcements. I'm not sure if you need the Thoughtseizes or the Verdicts here.
I'd bring it in the dark vs jund even if i didn't see liliana. It answers bob just fine, and all the other big creatures they might have huntmaster, olivia, thundermaw hellkite. And as a last resort it hits deathrite and bloodbraid.
I've been taking out the Izzet Charms in a lot of mana dork matchups on the draw, as I've been embarrassed too many times by T1 Heirarch/Deathrite Shaman and then T3 Absurd card I wish I had an answer for, be it Birthing Pod, Liliana, or even Kitchen Finks for which this deck has to spend two cards.
Speaking of that, I know giving people the land sucks, but I really find myself wanting a Path to Exile in this deck. I think I'd cut an Electrolyze or a Dismember for it, not sure.
It's funny you say that, as path is pretty bad with your turn 1 mana dork situation. There's also burst lightning and flame slash as other options. I could see playing 1 path in the deck since it has snapcasters and teachings.
For instance, I probably didn't use the Mind Rot mode of Esper Charm as much as I should have been, especially on people's draw steps, and even running out Snapcaster's and flashing back Bolts to the face to put a clock on decks were I wouldn't expect this deck to want to be the beatdown.
Yeah I wish I paid more attention to those situations when he did it. I've played the straight esper teachings deck probably used it as a mind rot 1/10 of the time. You have to be ahead on the board and with cards in hand. I think his deck allows you to use the discard mode more often because he has 4 snapcasters and all of his cards cantrip. The straight esper teaching's deck had more one for ones, and only 2 snapcasters. So the straight esper deck would usually have less cards in hand.
I was thinking about the Tec Edge vs. Ghost Quarter thing as well. Really not sure what should happen here. I mean, if it's really for the Tron matchup, I'd rather just have a Sowing Salt and remember to fetch up my Steam Vents first. I'm not sure if I should be cutting something like a Darkslick Shores or the draw vs. Jund and bringing this thing in or what. No idea.
I haven't played the deck much yet since I just built it. Still short a clique, need to sell some cards. How many sowing salts would you play? Would you put sowing salt in vs other decks? I think this deck has enough early interaction vs tron to not have to play it. I'm guessing that's why Wafo Tapa didn't add it. He did 2-0 his tron opponent (though that opponent wasn't very good).
I have tested the Wafo-Tapa list in a bunch of games now, and I really like it. Electrolyze has been somewhat clunky for me, but I haven't seen much of the decks that you'd actually want the card for, so I'm leaving it for now.
I have heard on Twitter or read here some people have problems with the list, and I think it's perhaps because the players didn't watch the replays. I don't know why, but having seen the replays opened my eyes!
FYI, Counterflux has been really good for me. I've played a lot of combo decks, and it's good against all of them. Against Storm it's a Cancel or a costly Mindbreak Trap (The 1UUR Overload has been surprising easily to work up, I find that most games boil down to me smacking them with a Snapcaster or two, and I just get to sit back and wait for them to try to go off with multiple answer and 7+ mana ready), against Splinter Twin it hits Kiki-Jiki or Splinter Twin without Dispel screwing everything up, and against Scapeshift it gets their Scapeshift without getting Remanded or whatever. It's been really good.
I added a second Clique because I had it, I felt as though it was more relevant than the Tec Edge in most cases. There are a lot of combo decks on MODO.
Do you have any idea on how to sideboard? It seems like you'd take at most 4 cards out of the deck. Otherwise you're probably cutting cantrips and the deck becomes clunky. I don't like tec edge either with no recursion. They can turn 3 tron on the play where tech edge does nothing. So I think ghost quarter is better vs the tron match up. But I guess tec edge is mostly for manlands.
I guess extirpate lets you hit instants/flash cards on someone's draw step. That's probably a strong play vs splinter twin? I think that's why he'd play it since twin is a pretty rough match up where they play 1 mana counters to your 2-4 mana counters. He did go 2-1 in his twin match.
I only see one guy on twitter saying he's losing with the deck. So I don't understand why you'd bring that up.
Solved it. I was close! After testing, I was going to suggest cutting a Reflecting Pool. So many cards cycle that 27 lands is too many.
Yeah it makes sense you want to limit the amount of hands you mulligan based on the lands in your hand. Having 2 reflecting pools as the only lands in your opener is pretty brutal.
I'm not too keen on the sideboard, though I'm glad I don't have to buy multiple cliques and mindbreak traps.
Extirpate seems weird. I don't know why you'd need the split second. It would seem like surgical is better if you're playing 4 snapcasters. The split second actually came up vs eggs, but I don't know in what other match up you'd bring it in and where it would be better than surgical. And no one plays eggs, so surgical seems better.
Is Wafos list on any records? Awesome job reconstructing it.
If it was recorded we would have posted it. Does someone want to bug/message him online? I was tempted to message carl_ to see if he knows Wafo or if he's a member of mtgs.
If you want to play this deck on mtgo i'd start buying the cards right now, unless you want to wait till after PTQ season in 3 months.
Night of souls betrayal seems really slow, would rather just play darkblast.
Does anyone know who Carl_ on mtgo is? He played Wafo Tapa's deck to a 3-1 finish in the daily, which will go away in 10 hours from my post. Carl has supreme verdict in his board. His loss was to U/W. Geists decks seem pretty though to beat with this deck, so i really think supreme verdict should be in the board. Actually just finished the replay, he lost on time, he should have been 4-0, he just needed 10 more seconds to win.
that would be worth a try if scepter could imprint sorceries
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/cheonnalfirepaul-cruel-control/
Sadly he said on stream UWR is a better deck.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9515638#post9515638
The more I think about it, the more I don't think consume the meek should be in the deck (or the sideboard). The way most games play out you kill all their stuff, so you won't get any insane blow outs with the 5 mana instant speed wrath. The other esper decks could play consume the meek because they play rest for the weary to buy time, and they play cheaper wraths, so they can set up multiple blow outs with each wrath. Plus Wafo's deck can have a hard time getting double black on turn 5. However the counter argument is that consume the meek can save you from a lot of bad situations and you can tutor for it if needed. If you really want a wrath I think supreme verdict is better. Or if you really want to kill man lands play another terminate instead.
Slay is pretty sweet, but it seems like the sideboard slots are really tight. I think there needs to be 1 darkblast in the board. Shadow of doubt is another consideration for the board, it cantrips!!! Lightning helix and rest for the weary are other considerations to think about.
But yeah I could see boarding in the purge, 2 timelys, and the tec edge/spreading seas. Maybe board in counter flux as a counter to BBE?
I could see cutting 1-3 izzet charms since they are terrible top decks in this attrition war. I could see cutting consume the meek since it's a slow card that might not get much value. If you board in counterflux i could see cutting snapcasters. Can you cut 1 cryptic and 1 teachings since they're slow?
I lost round 1 to a stupid u/b tron deck playing platinum angel, sundering titan and mind slaver. Game 2 he had academy ruins which I didn't see till then, otherwise i would have boarded in extirpate. I didn't really know what his deck did, I probably could have played better. In game 3 I cryptic'd his thirst for knowledge on my turn, which let him play turn 4 sundering titan (which i didn't see till that game). He basically nut drew the tron lands and the perfect fatty without any searching or card draw
Round 2 I beat the U/W deck that won the modo ptq. It's amazing how this deck can come from behind if there's no pressure. All your non land draws are so good it's insane. I was like 4-5 lands behind him, but he didn't apply any pressure and I slowly came back into the game. The opponent even got to revelation first and I still beat him. The deck played 4 finks, but I was able to grind through the with snapcaster and electrolyze.
Round 3 opponent didn't show. Easy 2 packs (1.6 ticket profit), though my matches were the last to finish each round!
Sideboarding with this deck is very particular. You can't take out cantrips because they make the deck function. So you're left with taking out lightning bolt (4), izzet charms (3), terminate (1) , dismember (1) , consume the meek (1). Though the last 3 cards are pretty good against most decks, so you really only have 7 easy cuts, when you can potentially board in 11 cards.
I don't really like boarding out lightning bolt, since bolt + snapcaster + bolt + attack is a lot of damage. But I did side bolts out against the UW deck and it worked out fine.
I really want to add a calciform pools to the deck, but I don't know which land to cut. I like the miser tec edge since it helps get you to the late game where this deck shines. I could see cutting the mystic gate as it's pretty bad in your opener as the charge land would be.
Yeah split second only matters vs combo decks with counters, and eggs. But the twin match up is pretty bad that extirpate might be worth playing. The cards are pretty close in power level that I don't think there's a wrong choice. It just depends on your meta.
BTW you're on someone's stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/magic_ad
If you remove the exarch you're like a 99% favorite or something since all your cards cantrip or deal with pestermite and kiki, plus esper charm kills splinter twin and blood moon. Though I guess being able to cast surgical for free against storm is pretty good. And the only time extirpate matters vs tron is if they have an active relic, which rarely comes up.
Yeah i'm surprised how good that card is. And shock is surprisingly playable. You could play a card that did 2 damage to a creature or 3 damage to a player and it would be fine 95% of the time.
I don't know if you need spell snare. All the cantrips get you back in it on the draw. The UW decks can't really catch up in this format, so they have to play spell snare. Plus playing 4 cryptics give you answers to everything. I guess you could remove some izzet charms for spell snare and not notice the difference too much.
I don't think moltern rain does anything vs tron. 1 for 1ing them doesn't do much if you don't have a clock. Molten rain is extremely good if you can turn 2 it on the play (obviously this deck can't do it). Spreading seas seems like a perfect fit in this deck though since it cantrips. It's probably better than the tec edge in the board.
I'd bring it in the dark vs jund even if i didn't see liliana. It answers bob just fine, and all the other big creatures they might have huntmaster, olivia, thundermaw hellkite. And as a last resort it hits deathrite and bloodbraid.
It's funny you say that, as path is pretty bad with your turn 1 mana dork situation. There's also burst lightning and flame slash as other options. I could see playing 1 path in the deck since it has snapcasters and teachings.
Yeah I wish I paid more attention to those situations when he did it. I've played the straight esper teachings deck probably used it as a mind rot 1/10 of the time. You have to be ahead on the board and with cards in hand. I think his deck allows you to use the discard mode more often because he has 4 snapcasters and all of his cards cantrip. The straight esper teaching's deck had more one for ones, and only 2 snapcasters. So the straight esper deck would usually have less cards in hand.
I haven't played the deck much yet since I just built it. Still short a clique, need to sell some cards. How many sowing salts would you play? Would you put sowing salt in vs other decks? I think this deck has enough early interaction vs tron to not have to play it. I'm guessing that's why Wafo Tapa didn't add it. He did 2-0 his tron opponent (though that opponent wasn't very good).
Do you have any idea on how to sideboard? It seems like you'd take at most 4 cards out of the deck. Otherwise you're probably cutting cantrips and the deck becomes clunky. I don't like tec edge either with no recursion. They can turn 3 tron on the play where tech edge does nothing. So I think ghost quarter is better vs the tron match up. But I guess tec edge is mostly for manlands.
I guess extirpate lets you hit instants/flash cards on someone's draw step. That's probably a strong play vs splinter twin? I think that's why he'd play it since twin is a pretty rough match up where they play 1 mana counters to your 2-4 mana counters. He did go 2-1 in his twin match.
I only see one guy on twitter saying he's losing with the deck. So I don't understand why you'd bring that up.
Yeah it makes sense you want to limit the amount of hands you mulligan based on the lands in your hand. Having 2 reflecting pools as the only lands in your opener is pretty brutal.
I'm not too keen on the sideboard, though I'm glad I don't have to buy multiple cliques and mindbreak traps.
Extirpate seems weird. I don't know why you'd need the split second. It would seem like surgical is better if you're playing 4 snapcasters. The split second actually came up vs eggs, but I don't know in what other match up you'd bring it in and where it would be better than surgical. And no one plays eggs, so surgical seems better.
I guess smelt is better than steel sabatoge.
I don't think counterflex is good, but i guess i'll try it. Maybe I won't need to buy mindbreak traps.
If it was recorded we would have posted it. Does someone want to bug/message him online? I was tempted to message carl_ to see if he knows Wafo or if he's a member of mtgs.
If you want to play this deck on mtgo i'd start buying the cards right now, unless you want to wait till after PTQ season in 3 months.
Does anyone know who Carl_ on mtgo is? He played Wafo Tapa's deck to a 3-1 finish in the daily, which will go away in 10 hours from my post. Carl has supreme verdict in his board. His loss was to U/W. Geists decks seem pretty though to beat with this deck, so i really think supreme verdict should be in the board. Actually just finished the replay, he lost on time, he should have been 4-0, he just needed 10 more seconds to win.
http://i.imgur.com/WTwsc.jpg