Batterskull. Provides much needed lifegain, has vigilance to protect planeswalkers and yourself. Late-game can equip and Tiago as well as protect itself. Very versatile.
Liliana of the Veil Jund still runs her w/o the Fire combo and she is still a house. I currently run her as a 2 of...+1 for control/combo...-2 for aggro..Hate to say that walkers are versatile considering they are suppose to be but I think Liliana has proved to be very powerful even w/o something like bloodghast.
spell pierce With my revitalized list I now run a playset of pierces. Against aggro it is still very useful. Zoo list run tribal flames etc...Jund best cards are probably of the non-creature variety(liliana,pulse,blightning etc), even against affinity it is still decent although probably its weakest.
Pierce also allows my control matchup to be much easier. A cruel deck, my cruel deck can't draw go with against another control deck. I just do not run enough counters so pierce allows me to strike first and give myself the upper hand. Turn 4 Mind rot, or Liliana.
Think Twice is just far superior to any other card draw we have availible outside of Charm. I only have room for 2 maindeck but have 1 more in the side for other control matchup. I have tested all the other 1cc sorceries and they are just not worth it. Run Think Twice.
I think 4 color cruel can match-up with any deck out there. Not saying its the best but I believe where modern is right now there is not a best deck. There are several decks out there that are the top and it comes down to playskill.
Took out Elspeth and Cliques as ultimately I felt they were takin up 2 much room....Wanted to maximize Tiago's value. Swords do that as well. Have really been liking Geist so far.
yeah but that is wayyy to slow...adding 2 land cards to an already unstable mana base...plus Boseiju does nothing with Cruel since it doesn't produce color.
Anyone been testing with him? At first I did not like him but having been on the wrong side a couple times I decided to try him out. Paired w/ Elspeth he can be a house.
Since I wanted to try out a Cruel build I felt like he might actually be useful since I can get him back with Cruel if he happens to die...not taxing on the mana or manabase. 3 is alot easier to cast then say 6 for wurmcoil.
everything else are instants that interact with Mage.
Speaking of a mage...fulminator mage is a bi**h. How are yall dealing with her? Do I have to land an early extripate?
If living end gets that engine going at all its game.
Another interesting tidbit I faced the other day was
Tar Pit has won me MANY more games than it cost me. Typically it comes down turn 1 or turn 5 or 6 when CIPT doesn't matter. I firmly believe you are overlooking this card.
I splashed red specifically for Vengeant and have not been disappointed in the slightest. Remember I actually come from an esper shell and have moved to 4 color control. A resolved Ajani is and has been back-breaking for my opponent. Keeping them off a color while building loyalty and having protection is AMAZING. Having them overextend a turn or 2 to kill him is more than enough time to formulate a gameplan to win. (against zoo/aggro)
Hand disruption has been hardly beneficial in my games. Thoughtseize has been relegated to the s/b for combo/control match-ups and I have not looked back. In games where IoK is good I still have not found it powerful enough. Looking at you zoo/elves.
I'm assuming you are talking about the 5 mana instant which I want no part of.....5 mana just because its an instant? Lol no thanks....in a teaching deck as a 1 of maybe....
do NOT play tar pit or you are asking for it, losing a turn because the land came into play tapped kills your chances in this format...charm is a good card...elspeth is the only walker that needs to be in this format based on relative impact on board state in every matchup...black gives you inquisiton of kozilek, thoughtseize, and instant speed wrath that nukes basically anything in this format
cutting black now puts you in R/W/U control...also you lost cruel ultimatum
the land is an uncommon and in a control match up its amazing and in anything else it smooths out cruel ultimatums heavy mana requirements...also where it shines most is in control on control...if you know control...you have alot of turns before anything happens...it lets you make the first move in a counter war without losing
tutoring for a land is NEVER what this deck needs to be tapping out for...you tap out for firespout and cruel...thats it
tron can tutor for lands...it needs tron pieces to win...so tolaria west is a must in that deck
If you know the card base of modern you know you can play anything but sorceries and land drops as instants
Personally I think black is the weakest color (for this deck) and would not run it if not for the charm. But since I do, I agree that cards like terminate and a beast man land creeping tar pit
and I have no idea what land you are talking about...especially w.o a way to tutor for it
I will agree that 1 was wayyyy two little. I now have 2 Wurmcoils. Anywho, I do not play cruel control buuut I am now trying a 4 color control deck. This seems like as good as place as any because the strategies are similar.
Oh and as far as game lengths, usually my games don't end till well past turn 10, usually in the 12-15 range.
The format is fast so we are going to need fast spells
These guys allow for devastating card advantage and later game reach.
Thoughts on this shell w/o Delver?
Batterskull. Provides much needed lifegain, has vigilance to protect planeswalkers and yourself. Late-game can equip and Tiago as well as protect itself. Very versatile.
Liliana of the Veil Jund still runs her w/o the Fire combo and she is still a house. I currently run her as a 2 of...+1 for control/combo...-2 for aggro..Hate to say that walkers are versatile considering they are suppose to be but I think Liliana has proved to be very powerful even w/o something like bloodghast.
spell pierce With my revitalized list I now run a playset of pierces. Against aggro it is still very useful. Zoo list run tribal flames etc...Jund best cards are probably of the non-creature variety(liliana,pulse,blightning etc), even against affinity it is still decent although probably its weakest.
Pierce also allows my control matchup to be much easier. A cruel deck, my cruel deck can't draw go with against another control deck. I just do not run enough counters so pierce allows me to strike first and give myself the upper hand. Turn 4 Mind rot, or Liliana.
Think Twice is just far superior to any other card draw we have availible outside of Charm. I only have room for 2 maindeck but have 1 more in the side for other control matchup. I have tested all the other 1cc sorceries and they are just not worth it. Run Think Twice.
2 batterskull
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Helix
4 Esper Charm
4 Spell Pierce
2 Cryptic Command
3 Path to Exile
2 Think Twice
2 Celestial Colonnades
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Hallowed Fountains
1 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Rugged Praire
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Steam Vents
1 swamp
1 mountain
1 island
1 Think Twice
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Slagstorm
3 Grand Abolisher
2 Duress
1 Timely Reinforcements
I think 4 color cruel can match-up with any deck out there. Not saying its the best but I believe where modern is right now there is not a best deck. There are several decks out there that are the top and it comes down to playskill.
Personally I cant see Rites being very useful to you and the singleton needle seems out of place.
1 Dralnu, Lich Lord
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Esper Charm
4 Lightning Helix
3 Cryptic Command
3 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Serum Visions
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Slagstorm
S/B
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Grand Abolisher
2 Smother
1 Negate
1 Cryptic Command
3 Flashfreeze
Cards like:
Lightning Helix
tribal flame
become very powerful.
2 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Geist of Saint traft
Creatures/Sword
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Sword of feast and famine
Instants
4 Lightning Helix
3 Esper Charm
1 Grixis Charm
3 Path to Exile
1 Smother
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Repeal
2 Cryptic Command
3 think Twice
4 Shocks
3 Reflecting Pools
S/B
3 Disenchant
2 Spell Snare
3 Thoughtseize
4 Flashfreeze
3 Ethersworm Canonist?? Hate bear also hates on me....thoughts?
Took out Elspeth and Cliques as ultimately I felt they were takin up 2 much room....Wanted to maximize Tiago's value. Swords do that as well. Have really been liking Geist so far.
Problem matchups
elves....I just cant win
Anyone been testing with him? At first I did not like him but having been on the wrong side a couple times I decided to try him out. Paired w/ Elspeth he can be a house.
Since I wanted to try out a Cruel build I felt like he might actually be useful since I can get him back with Cruel if he happens to die...not taxing on the mana or manabase. 3 is alot easier to cast then say 6 for wurmcoil.
2 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
everything else are instants that interact with Mage.
Speaking of a mage...fulminator mage is a bi**h. How are yall dealing with her? Do I have to land an early extripate?
If living end gets that engine going at all its game.
Another interesting tidbit I faced the other day was
I was able to tap down Miren w/ Ajani 1 game and let it get out of control another game :/. Thoughts?
Gonna test it out
obviously...i was talking about the instant speed wrath (CtM)
I splashed red specifically for Vengeant and have not been disappointed in the slightest. Remember I actually come from an esper shell and have moved to 4 color control. A resolved Ajani is and has been back-breaking for my opponent. Keeping them off a color while building loyalty and having protection is AMAZING. Having them overextend a turn or 2 to kill him is more than enough time to formulate a gameplan to win. (against zoo/aggro)
Hand disruption has been hardly beneficial in my games. Thoughtseize has been relegated to the s/b for combo/control match-ups and I have not looked back. In games where IoK is good I still have not found it powerful enough. Looking at you zoo/elves.
I'm assuming you are talking about the 5 mana instant which I want no part of.....5 mana just because its an instant? Lol no thanks....in a teaching deck as a 1 of maybe....
esper charm
literally one of the best cards in the format
ajani vengeant
elspeth knight errant
Personally I think black is the weakest color (for this deck) and would not run it if not for the charm. But since I do, I agree that cards like terminate and a beast man land creeping tar pit
and I have no idea what land you are talking about...especially w.o a way to tutor for it
Oh and as far as game lengths, usually my games don't end till well past turn 10, usually in the 12-15 range.
1 Gideon Jura
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Cruel Ultimatum
Utility Creatures - 7
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Instants - 21
3 Esper Charm
4 Remand
3 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
2 Terminate
2 Repeal
3 cryptic command
2 spell snare
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Foundry
1 godless shrine
1 Blood Crypt
4 Marsh Flats
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Reflecting pool
2 drowned catacombs
24 lands
6 6cmc creatures and 2 cruels
I haven't played it but I play an esper style control and I only maindeck 1 creature/card over 4 cmc.