MTG Salvation

@moxnix
I think it's not fair to think of any winning deck as getting lucky. There has to some credit to go around at some point w/ the twin deck. He must have been prepared to face the Tron deck too. It's not his fault that his opponents didn't do a good job.

Quote from Raalic

Building up a board state that produces large amounts of mana is called ramp, not combo. I know people like to conflate the two, but making big mana is a function of many decks that rely on similar interdependence. Large amounts of mana may enable a combo. They play similarly.

The keyword here is building up. By definition, a combo needs to built up. It's even more prevalent when it is as specific as tron. You may be ramping, but your ramping w/ "specific" cards. So long as you do so, and your deck needs those specific cards to further it's strategy, it's a combo deck.

To the rest of the guys feeling that the discussion on tron is hi-jacking the thread, I personally am sorry for my own actions. It was not an intention on my part, that I can say.

Quote from The_AC

I said it wasn't a combo deck? [/rolleyes]

Sorry, I'm on a smartphone so I assumed this was from Spmiller. =.=

Anyway, while the mechanic of 3 lands producing 7 mana is not necessarily abusive, the ability of consistently FORCE it into play early IS abusive.

Quote from The_AC

Bit of a stretch to say it "abuses" a mechanic. "This land names two other specific cards, and i have those!"

Living End, Cascabalance, Melira/Kiki-Pod, maybe Splinter Twin, even more maybe Amulet of Vigor, sure.

Oh, please... You are just one of those guys stuck with the idea that a combo deck needs to finish via combo. Not all combo decks have to. Urzatron is one.

Quote from SPMiller

Okay, so Affinity is a combo deck because it uses Modular for huge swings and Affinity for extremely cheap CA?

Okay, that came out of nowhere. Please don't start putting words on my mouth by just singling out one post. The post you quoted is to supplement my other post about 6 pages back.


Anyway 1st off, affinity became a deck only because of the prevalence of the mechanic in the deck. 2nd, arcbound ravager imo is not the feature card of affinity, it's cranial plating. 3rd, affinity does not "build around" specific cards. All that leads to the conclusion that Affinity is just aggro. There is no specific card the deck needs in order further the deck's strategy, making it far from being a combo deck.

Edit: Just look at it this way... If a deck needs to fetch, tutor, stall, dig, and set up the board for "specific cards" and/or specific game mechanic, It's a combo deck.

Quote from SPMiller

As much as it's true that this GP was combo-heavy, RG Tron is not a combo deck. It has no combo elements; it's aggro-control on a ramp strategy. Combo is literally the one thing Tron is NOT.

Okay, as i've previously stated in this thread. No matter how you slice it, tron IS combo. Even if GR has more control elements, it being an urzatron deck makes it combo deck. Even if the deck doesn't finish the game w/ a combo, so long as the deck specializes on abusing specific game mechanics that creates a significant advantage, it is a combo deck.

Oh my, I have been under the impression that urzatron is a combo deck for all this years playing this game. I think people have misinterpreted that a deck can only be called a "combo" deck, when it needs a "combo finish". People need to wake up though, because that's not the whole truth.

By definition, a combo deck is a deck that specializes in abusing specific combos in their deck. That said, ANY urzatron deck IS a combo deck. The tron lands themselves are a combo, w/o question, so that makes the deck a combo deck. Heck, prime time combos w/ the lands he fetches, so that in itself defines the deck as a combo deck. RG tron is a combo-ramp-control deck. It's not one or the other, it is one AND the other.

Infect, on the other hand, I wouldn't call a combo deck. It doesn't really need the pump spells to win, so it's not really a combo deck per se. It's just a busy body semi non-interactive deck. IMO the pump spells just gets you there faster.

Day 2 metagame breakdown shows "11 others" down at the bottom of the list. That is such a tease. >_>

Just above it though, is 2 Ad Nauseum decks! Definitely bonkers, that deck is.

Quote from Loa Vecre

Went 4-5 with Borderpost Restore Balance. Not exactly champion results, but for my first GP it's not bad IMO.

I did hear about another guy running the No-Post version, and supposedly he was 3-1 or 4-1 at some point, but I haven't heard anything beyond that. Hopefully he succeeded where I could not.

Ah, that deck brings me back to my janky extended format days... so what kinds of brick walls did you run into headfirst in this tourney?

Quote from mirrorentity

Not the player but Witchbane Orb is your Leyline you can tutor/cast more reliably, and Mindlock is symmetrical, kinda awkward.

Yeah, I know it is in the main deck and is tutorable, but Leyline, is what I call "mulligan-able". Scapeshift can't win unless they Clutch or abrupt decay LoS back to your hand.

Mindlock Orb is the same deal. Granted, yes, Mindlock Orb screws Tezzerator bad. BUT it screws up Scapeshift much, much, much worse. Tezzerator CAN operate in top deck mode, on the other hand, Scapeshift NEEDS to fetch.

EDIT: For me, I'd like to know what are the minority decks out there. It's there where you see hidden gems.

SB Leyline of Sanctity perhaps? Better yet, Mindlock Orb. That should buy at least 2 additional turns.

I think between the Discard suite and aside from blocking the token, Spellskite+Welding Jar defense can hold down Geist for a few turns until he empties his hand for a Bridge.

Quote from Tahn

I was the Tezzeret player. About the Scapeshift matchup: apart from Witchbane Orb I played a bunch of discard (5 main 3 sb) and after sb I had 2 extirpates which can combine with Ghost Quarter to take away Valakut or with discard to remove Scapeshifts. For Titan there's Torpor Orb and Ensnaring Bridge or Executioner's Capsule. But I didn't really draw the relevant cards, or the Tezzerets (I played 7) to find them. Oh well.

I can post my list when I'm home if you want.

Yay! Please do post the list whenever it is convenient for you.

But damn, that's a lot of Specific cards to stop Specific things. =.= A lot of things needed to go in your favor, for the MU.

Quote from Beerblebrox

Doesn't sound like he made it

Scapeshift seems like it would be a hard matchup for that deck. I don't know the list he's running, but their countermagic suite tends to be pretty light and/or conditional (e.g. Spell Snare), and they don't run a lot of other relevant hate for the matchup.

I think his ONLY silver bullet is/was Witchbane Orb. That match up has got to sting a bit. lol

EDIT:
Did everyone see the Mono-Green Nykthos deck? It looked underwhelming. If it had Magus of the Candelabra, and Thousand-Year Elixir for some untapping goodness, it might have been something. But no, it's a straight up, Elfball-esque deck minus the draw engine.

Capitalism/Imperialism IS a top-down model in of itself. I don't think it's one of Wizards' top priority at the moment if you asked me.