I'm just really impressed with the variety of decks so far, and especially with some of the new/updated archetypes!
I mean, we've got G/r Nykthos, Merfolk with Thassa and Master of Waves, Tezzeret control, Jund-pod with three entire Sprouting Thrinaxes in it, and some pretty substantial innovations to Twin/Kiki-Jiki decks (even one that looks to be straight up Boros).
This is the Modern of my wildest dreams. Okay, not the wildest ones. Those ones involve getting Counterspell and the legalization of the Commander/Planechase cards. But it's still pretty sweet to see some of the
Jund Pod seems cool. I've been trying to do this with Hatebears, but it is a little outside of my budget.
Tron would be a combo deck if, say, the rules text for Urza's Tower read like the following:
:symtap:: Add 1 to your mana pool. If you control an Urza's Mine and an Urza's Power-Plant, each opponent loses a billion life and you add 3 to your mana pool instead.
Most combos aren't written quite that straightforwardly. Since we're apparently in need of further examples, let's use one you won't see in Modern to avoid possible deck bias:
So you want a ban because you think Jund is too good
But when it doesn't do well, you hope it does do well, so you can ban it?
That's some pretty twisted logic
It makes sense. I for one want a BGx ban because discard and maindeck graveyard hate are annoying. I recognize that this wouldbe a bad thing for the meta and I'm happy that we don't need a ban, but Scavenging Ooze is really annoying.
It's a marginal deck that people haven't fully committed to hating out. Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze are cards being played because they're good all around. This deck could easily disappear when people start sleeving up more actual hate.
There is plenty of hate in the format. Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus, Deathrite Shaman, and Scavenging Ooze are all played.
Actually, it's your logic. I just substiuted another deck into it. I guess it's combined for OUR logic. We made a logic baby.
But belcher doesn't need a specific card to win, it often uses empty the warrens. Or a Wish to get some other win con. One is worthless without the other. Just like infect. The pump spells in infect don't win you the game alone, just as the rituals in belcher don't win the game alone.
Zoo is an aggro deck because each creature in the deck is expected to perform on it's own. They don't need eachother. They work better together, but they do not REQUIRE each other. To use your pump spells you REQUIRE a creature. To resolve a belcher you REQUIRE a ritual.
As for mill, that's not A deck, that's a series of decks. Many of which are actually combo decks. Some are, some are not. Some go infinite and some are 60fog.dec.
Also, I have no idea what 8rack is but playing eight copies of The Rack and making your opponent discard their hand SOUNDS like a combo to me.
Now burn? Honestly there are times I can't figure out if burn ISN'T a combo deck, and I'd like to agree it's an aggro deck but it's "play seven bolts and win, irrelevant of your opponent" is very combo. The Modern burn which involves creatures is strictly an aggro deck.
So by your logic(this time it is yours, not ours) everything is a combo deck. The only pure aggro decks are the ones that attack with unsynergistic creatures. Prison decks are just another kind of combo. Almost every control deck is a combo deck, same goes for most tempo decks (the threat that you play combos with the protection in your hand). That doesn't work. Interaction and synergy do not equal combo.
Your problem here is that this doesn't then include Goblin Charbelcher as a combo deck.
If you replace "any infect creature" with "belcher" and "configurations of pump spells to win" with "configurations of ritual spells to win" you end up with the same deck only one uses a creature and the other uses an artifact. Playing five pump spells or whatever is how it combos off.
And by your logic, Burn is a combo deck because it needs any combination of damage dealing spells to win, Zoo is a combo deck because it needs any combination of creatures to win, 8-Rack is a combo deck because it needs any combination of discard and racks to win, and Mill is a combo deck because it needs any combination of mill spells to win. Belcher does combo out and it needs a specific card (Goblin Charbelcher) to win. That makes it a combo deck.
Yeah, hopefully we won't see something this painful in this top 8^^
Also: yes, people always make hasty conclusions. Half a year ago everyione wanted Pod banned, then UWR (WMC) and then Jund (last GP).
There will probably be at least one guy shouting for a LE ban because there's 3 in the top 16 too
On another note, if Infect/Tron/Affinity are combo decks is hugely based on your definition of combo. For me combo means basically "making a number of things exponentially better due to synergy" because the COMBINATION of those X things adds up to far more than if you look at their individual value.
Through that definition you'd make Infect pretty much a combo deck, that will sometimes have an aggro finish (those games where you win with ~8 attacks of 3-5 different dudes). Affinity becomes more of an aggro deck with "oops I win" draws (much like od, but instead of an infinite combo it just happens to "combo" 1/1s with multiple Platings for a 1-shot) and Tron becomes a synegry deck rather than combo (because the only synergy in the deck is actually the tron lands).
The combo aspect is there in Tron though, if your definition of combo is closer to "how does this deck play" because you have roughly 30 "support" cards to find your wincons, which is typical of combo.
Through that definition Pod is no longer a combo deck though
So yeah, those decks are really ahrd to classify, but they definitely have a combo-part/feel to it, though certainly they are not pure combo decks (Twin too has some tempo based lists as another example).
For me, a combo deck has to do 2 things. It needs specific cards to win and it has to "combo out". The first reason is why Infect is not a combo deck. It can use any creature with infect and many different configurations of pump spells to win. The second reason is why Affinity and Tron aren't combo decks. Affinity and RG Tron don't combo out.
rg tron - combo-ramp
jund - midrange
living end - combo
living end - combo
affinity - combo-aggro
splinter twin - combo
infect - combo-aggro
splinter twin - combo
No pure aggro decks (zoo, gruul, white weenie, etc)
No pure control decks (UWR, Esper)
1 midrange
4/8 decks are combo
3/8 decks are a hybrid combo deck
87.5% of decks in the top 8 have a combo element.
Infect is not a combo deck. It is closer to Burn, which is the quintessential aggro deck. Affinity is also not a combo deck. Synergy does not equal combo. RG Tron is closer, but it doesn't combo out and if it assembles Tron, that doesn't make it win the game immediately, so it is not a combo deck.
It is nice to see infect in the top 8. I think that it actually has a decent shot oof winning this. It crushes Tron, it can beat Jund, Living End can't interact with it for the first 2-3 turns, and it seems like it can do decently against Twin.
If the board is reasonably developed I can usually figure it out quickly, but it'd still be nice if they did it so I can figure out what's going on at a glance.
Showing the win records on screen would be a nice touch also.
Did the feed just go down for anyone else?
EDIT: Ah, it's back now. Apparently there was a blackout!
Jund Pod seems cool. I've been trying to do this with Hatebears, but it is a little outside of my budget.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
By your logic, Living End and Restore Balance aren't combo because they don't win the game instantly.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It is the equivalent of running removal in an aggro deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It makes sense. I for one want a BGx ban because discard and maindeck graveyard hate are annoying. I recognize that this wouldbe a bad thing for the meta and I'm happy that we don't need a ban, but Scavenging Ooze is really annoying.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'd say the top 8 of GP Lincoln was better.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
There is plenty of hate in the format. Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus, Deathrite Shaman, and Scavenging Ooze are all played.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
So by your logic(this time it is yours, not ours) everything is a combo deck. The only pure aggro decks are the ones that attack with unsynergistic creatures. Prison decks are just another kind of combo. Almost every control deck is a combo deck, same goes for most tempo decks (the threat that you play combos with the protection in your hand). That doesn't work. Interaction and synergy do not equal combo.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
And by your logic, Burn is a combo deck because it needs any combination of damage dealing spells to win, Zoo is a combo deck because it needs any combination of creatures to win, 8-Rack is a combo deck because it needs any combination of discard and racks to win, and Mill is a combo deck because it needs any combination of mill spells to win. Belcher does combo out and it needs a specific card (Goblin Charbelcher) to win. That makes it a combo deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
For me, a combo deck has to do 2 things. It needs specific cards to win and it has to "combo out". The first reason is why Infect is not a combo deck. It can use any creature with infect and many different configurations of pump spells to win. The second reason is why Affinity and Tron aren't combo decks. Affinity and RG Tron don't combo out.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yeah, I too hope that Duskmantle Seer sees play eventually.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Infect is not a combo deck. It is closer to Burn, which is the quintessential aggro deck. Affinity is also not a combo deck. Synergy does not equal combo. RG Tron is closer, but it doesn't combo out and if it assembles Tron, that doesn't make it win the game immediately, so it is not a combo deck.
It is nice to see infect in the top 8. I think that it actually has a decent shot oof winning this. It crushes Tron, it can beat Jund, Living End can't interact with it for the first 2-3 turns, and it seems like it can do decently against Twin.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
He is, didn't help though.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
And now it is gone again.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.