FOW is good only vs combo decks.
You are 3 for 1-ing yourself - 2 cards and 1 life to counter 1 card (and if they have their own counter, it's over).
Also many combo decks run discard and counters - even their own FOW.
That's not a 3 for 1. Its a 2 for 1.
FOW is good against everything, being able to have counter magic available while tapped out is format defining.
Not really. FOW is good and needed against fast decks early in the game. Once you get to turn 3 or later, there are better answers that dont 1 for 2 yourself. Since Modern has the turn 4 rule, there really is no need for FOW in the format. I am not sure if Wotc wants that kind of format defining in Modern. I know I dont.
More reasonably, Force of Will and Cabal Therapy Smile
FW is not needed with the turn 4 rule. and Therapy would make Waste Not/8rack decks even more powerful. Not sure if either are 'needed' in Modern at the moment.
Regrowth Because people only play green for Tarmogoyf and removal.
Not sure if you know about this card, Noxious Revival, but it can be played in any deck and is an instant and isnt in many if any decks in Modern. I dont think regrowth would see play.
The error in which most part of this thread falls is that people think about "would it be to good for modern?" while the crucial question is: "could standard bear this?"
- L
Unfortunately about 85% of all cards that would be reprinted and actually be decent in modern are grossly overpowered in standard. Like for example we can talk about innocent blood and we can talk about psychatog or goblin piledriver because they could be in standard and not make people's heads explode. However cards that would help new archetypes either become tier 1 or even exist are just far too good for what wotc seems to want in standard like fact or fiction or fireblast or dromar's charm. Too good for standard by a mile and merely very good or acceptable in modern.
It depends. Generic 'Good stuff' cards would be a problem in standard (but then who wants a format dominated by Bob's and Tarmogoyfs anyways?), but synergistic cards are only as good as the synergies they have. Stoneforge Mystic is only as good the equipment you can tutor for it.
While what you say about synergies is true, sfm is a very poor example. Sfm with damned near ANY equipment is insanely good and all it requires of you is that you have white mana in your deck.
That's not true. SFM was legal for all of Alara/Zen and was a $3 card. You could get Basilisk Collar or Sword of Vengeance as the best options. It was pretty terrible. SFM is the perfect example.
Actually if you go back and listen to AF talk about SFM they had not thought about the swords or living weapon interaction with SFM. In that thinking I would say SFM was a mistake, or the equipment they printed after was.
Just because Wotc got away with it once, doesnt mean they can continually keep doing it.
The error in which most part of this thread falls is that people think about "would it be to good for modern?" while the crucial question is: "could standard bear this?"
- L
I would bet that within the next two years Wizards figures out a way to inject cards into Modern while bypassing Standard. This could be done through Commander products, it could be done through Modern Masters, or it could be done through something new entirely. Otherwise, it is going to be very difficult for Wizards to balance the format without also unbalancing Standard. We know that Wizards is disappointed with the archetype balance in this format and we know that there are a ton of reprints and new cards that could fix that. But all of those cards are also likely to do too much to Standard. A feeder set would be needed.
I'm trying to think of cards that would help aggro without either hurting Standard or without being too powerful. Price of Progress is way too warping in this format so I doubt we ever see that. But something like Goblin Piledriver would rock; that guy seems very fair in Modern and, depending on what other goblins existed in Standard, not too crazy there either.
I am hoping you are wrong on your time line. For me that would ruin the feel of the format. The object was to play decks from the card pool, from time period of Modern. To start circumventing Standard to get cards into the format would just hurt that for me, and a few others I know. Not sure if this would be a good thing or bad for the masses.
Quote from stokpile »
I wonder if fireblast is too good for modern. It puts a significant constraint on deck building as even with may fetches in the format, you must get 2 mountains from it and has always been the best finisher for aggro decks outside of armageddon, and that one isn't ever coming back. Since almost every aggro deck that would be viable in modern is going to want bolts to clear a path having a good way to push that last bit through could help them out a ton. Though making burn a tier 1 deck would make me super sad.
Burn really doesnt have a problem right now. Not sure why we would want to boost it with fireblast.
Here is where you are wrong. If you are playing in states or local PTQ's you want to know your local meta, not some arbitrary lists on line. Thats how you go to a big event and go 1-3 drop. The metas change quite quickly too. The meta in southeastern Wisconsin is different then the Chicago meta then the northern suburbs of Illinois to central Wisconsin. This area is all with in a 2 hour drive. I agree with you to an extent if you are traveling to a large PT or such, but even then you are going to want to play a build you are comfortable with.
By the way there was a UWR Delver build that lost to tiebreakers to miss top 8 for states. The only 2 decks I know made top 8 are UB Fae and Kiki pod. My ride was in a hurry to leave after being knocked out.
UB Fae can play Force Spike but not Mana Tithe. Same goes for UR Delver.
UB Fae probably would not play spike even if it was legal.
While it probably wouldn't, it is possible.
Most UR Delver builds I have seen are splashing white for path and a copy or 2 of tithe. Also most of those lists are very tight, not sure if it would have room or want spike. Maybe switch the tithes but they still would play white for path and Geist.
As much as I love WUR Delver, that is a bald-faced lie. Look at mtgGoldfish.
Only one UR Delver deck since the start of May was running white, and that was just a single copy of Hallowed Fountain to cast both sides of Wear // Tear.
In short, you are either wrong or lying.
I am going by what I am seeing at these bigger events. I played in IL states (7 rounds) yesterday and saw multiple URW Delver decks running Geist and tithe. Saw only 1 straight UR. Its one thing to look at data that is being reported to certain sites, and actually getting out and seeing the meta, at least locally.
UB Fae can play Force Spike but not Mana Tithe. Same goes for UR Delver.
UB Fae probably would not play spike even if it was legal.
Most UR Delver builds I have seen are splashing white for path and a copy or 2 of tithe. Also most of those lists are very tight, not sure if it would have room or want spike. Maybe switch the tithes but they still would play white for path and Geist.
I'd personally like to see the Onslaught fetchs reprinted. Make modern's mana-fixing even better!
This really is not true. How many years did Legacy play with just 5? The Onslaught fetches are not 'needed' in Modern, but because they exists people want them.
That being said its going to happen sooner or later.
Legacy has the the original dual lands which means you only take 1 damage no matter what.
In Modern you have to take 3 for the same thing so fetching basics is a much bigger consideration.
And not all color combinations can do that right now.
They will surely have more impact in Modern than they did in Legacy.
Meh, 1 life or 3 life, its the difference in formats. I think of it as a Modern thing. Deck building in Modern revolves around it. Different formats, there should be a different mind set when building. But too many want a cut and dry, black and white way to build no matter the format, which is wrong in my opinion.
I'd personally like to see the Onslaught fetchs reprinted. Make modern's mana-fixing even better!
This really is not true. How many years did Legacy play with just 5? The Onslaught fetches are not 'needed' in Modern, but because they exists people want them.
That being said its going to happen sooner or later.
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Not really. FOW is good and needed against fast decks early in the game. Once you get to turn 3 or later, there are better answers that dont 1 for 2 yourself. Since Modern has the turn 4 rule, there really is no need for FOW in the format. I am not sure if Wotc wants that kind of format defining in Modern. I know I dont.
You and I definitely have different views of the format. EDH cards historically have been above the curve. No thank you.
FW is not needed with the turn 4 rule. and Therapy would make Waste Not/8rack decks even more powerful. Not sure if either are 'needed' in Modern at the moment.
Not sure if you know about this card, Noxious Revival, but it can be played in any deck and is an instant and isnt in many if any decks in Modern. I dont think regrowth would see play.
Actually if you go back and listen to AF talk about SFM they had not thought about the swords or living weapon interaction with SFM. In that thinking I would say SFM was a mistake, or the equipment they printed after was.
Just because Wotc got away with it once, doesnt mean they can continually keep doing it.
I am hoping you are wrong on your time line. For me that would ruin the feel of the format. The object was to play decks from the card pool, from time period of Modern. To start circumventing Standard to get cards into the format would just hurt that for me, and a few others I know. Not sure if this would be a good thing or bad for the masses.
Burn really doesnt have a problem right now. Not sure why we would want to boost it with fireblast.
I will ask, are you playing it for the LD or the choice? Not sure if there is 1 artifact you can target on turn 3 that will actually hurt Affinity.
Because if its for the LD we have better options in Molten Rain and Stone Rain
By the way there was a UWR Delver build that lost to tiebreakers to miss top 8 for states. The only 2 decks I know made top 8 are UB Fae and Kiki pod. My ride was in a hurry to leave after being knocked out.
I am going by what I am seeing at these bigger events. I played in IL states (7 rounds) yesterday and saw multiple URW Delver decks running Geist and tithe. Saw only 1 straight UR. Its one thing to look at data that is being reported to certain sites, and actually getting out and seeing the meta, at least locally.
UB Fae probably would not play spike even if it was legal.
Most UR Delver builds I have seen are splashing white for path and a copy or 2 of tithe. Also most of those lists are very tight, not sure if it would have room or want spike. Maybe switch the tithes but they still would play white for path and Geist.
Well if one doesnt see play and its legal, why bring the other into the format? What makes you think the other would see any play?
Meh, 1 life or 3 life, its the difference in formats. I think of it as a Modern thing. Deck building in Modern revolves around it. Different formats, there should be a different mind set when building. But too many want a cut and dry, black and white way to build no matter the format, which is wrong in my opinion.
This really is not true. How many years did Legacy play with just 5? The Onslaught fetches are not 'needed' in Modern, but because they exists people want them.
That being said its going to happen sooner or later.