They still get a 3/3, but us not being down a card is huge. We can also grow our own guys in a pinch (Snapcaster? Goyfs when they have RIP?), and it grows Goyf if milled or discarded. Also critical that it doesn't rely on the GY, unlike Magmatic Sinkhole. What do you guys think?
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
You know how sometimes decks play Grim Lavamancer from the side to deal with small creature decks? Wrenn and Six is like that stapled to Dark Confidant, and you get to choose the most relevant mode each turn, and it activates right away, and it doesn't die to Bolt if you don't want it to. I get that it doesn't flip Delver, but at some point the raw quality of the card overcomes the being slightly off plan.
I'm also debating swapping my Sleight of Hands for a pair of Faithless Looting. I've thought about the swap for a while but have been hesitant to lessen the number of blue cards. But I think I can balance it, and the extra selection combined with the synergy with W6 might make it worth a swap.
Agree that we have to play Wrenn, it's so good. Skeptics: check out my article for more. Also it's similar to Bauble in that it doesn't have apparent synergy with Delver, but the two work together in not-unfriendly ways. If Delver won't flip, for example, having a recurring scry effect thanks to the replayed fetchland can generate some important value over multiple turns.
With Wrenn in the deck I think you need FL to turn the fetches into real cards. The exception is if you have a high curve or mana-intensive gameplan to play towards, which we don't.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Fry is definitely better at killing walkers. Obviously it's narrow, but it does that job plus acts as hardnosed removal for Humans, Thing, and Spirits, too.
Have you played with Hexdrinker? I find it just replaces all the 4cmc threats we've all played in the board, and is something we want anyway as a 1 cmc threat. Off the top in a grindy game, it just wins. But you can also cast it early and chip in for damage, and they have to deal with it before it levels out of control.
I haven't, but based on what I've seen here it seems pretty good. Must be hard to have it die to Wrenn though.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Non-Path, non-combo decks just lose to Hazoret. Examples include Shadow, Hollow One, and Jund. It's also good as a closer when you are forced into a midrange role post-board. And I do think it's nice vs UWx decks; sure they can remove it if Path is handy, but nothing we have access to is better at sniping planeswalkers.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
What are you playing these days, Jordan? Are you still on Mandrills, or have you migrated to Hexdrinker or Mongoose? For what it's worth, I'm super pleased with roughly 56/60 of my main deck right now, and while it's hard to say we're well-positioned, I think we have gotten some important tools in these last few sets.
I will say that while Jund was never easy, Wrenn and Six has made it that much more difficult. That card is a house against us. Pings our dudes, drowns us in card advantage. It even makes the Blood Moon plan pretty sketchy postboard.
I'm on this. Wrenn and Six is great in this kind of strategy IMO, just have to build around it a bit.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
But tomorrow, I'm trying something totally different: Veil of Summer as a pair out of the board. I'm always tinkering, a evidenced above, and like I said, I think it basically doesn't matter what extra threat or two you add in. But this is totally different and gives a way to create 2 for 1s pretty easily against decks where that's really relevant. It's also 1cmc. Imagine casting it in response to a Fatal Push, having your creature live, and then drawing a card. It's a very narrow Cryptic Command. I don't know if it's going to be good, but I know exactly how all the other cards behave in the matchup, so I aim to find out if this is viable. I'm 50-50 on it.
Best I've done so far is counter a Mind Funeral with it ☺️ I think Fry is legit too, great against Humans, UW, etc.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Update on my previous list, played it through a few rounds yesterday and through an FNM. Made a couple of small changes though, so here's the list as I ran it.
The deck did alright, but there's some things I noticed:
1. Magmatic Insight didn't work out well, there's not enough lands to have enough to pitch. In theory the deck can run off of at most 3 land, but in practice you end up needing more land drops than that in order to hit all your color needs. Also, pitching a land isn't particularly useful. I think Thought Scour could better serve this slot.
2. Flusterstorm was insanely good. I'm pretty sure I want to turn the Izzet Charm into a second copy.
3. 5 0 cost cards felt right, postboard I occasionally went up to a 6th but I think more than that is asking too much. What did not feel right though was the number of enablers I had. Going up to the 4th Electrodominance is likely correct.
4. Pteramander was great when it worked, but even with 30 spells I had a hard time keeping enough in the graveyard to be able to grow it. I'm not sure what the solution here is. I've considered Bedlam Reveler, but that one can't be cheated in.
5. Wrenn and Six was very good. The -1 mode was less useful than I would have preferred, but the +1 was rather strong.
In my testing, I found that Pteramander demands a bulky suite of enablers. Looting is great, but Scour is also necessary IMO. It's also pretty nice with Arcanist, as you can hit 0-drops, and even Delver, as you can tear bad Delver hits off the top.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
More testing has led me to similar conclusions, but here's 2000 words of text on Reclaimer and other one-drop combat creatures in case you're looking for the gritty details!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Let's talk about Elvish Reclaimer! A 3/4 Wild Nacatl is nothing to sneeze at, but if we want to get this thing attacking on turn 2, we'll need some kind of engine that helps dump a third land (assuming 2 fetches). Faithless Looting seems like the most effective option, but Thought Scour is better for the deck overall since it enables Mandrills.
Then there's the question of what to include around it. Force of Negation has been pretty cool in my testing, but I think the cards that best suit the new creature make Force a hard sell. Wrenn, Domri, Looting, and Mutagenic Growth are all cards I've wanted in my build so far.
Also I like Veil of Summer as a sideboard card against Push decks or counterspells. Even countered a Mind Funeral earlier today! Which brings us the final question: how many utility lands should we run, and where? The sideboard Bog seems like a shoe-in, but I'm less sold on even the Blast Zone. Having one Fiery for Wrenn shenanigans seems okay though.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I would join a facebook group. A couple things though:
- Consider having multiple admins in case something goes wrong with one user. I'd be happy to admin if needed.
- A big benefit of facebook over Discord is that it's thread-based, liked reddit, but you can scroll through the posts, making it more like a forum. I too think this is a cleaner replacement than Discord, which is just a massive chat stream.
- I have Discord but never use it; I don't like the auto-launch, the RAM it takes up while running, or the notifications. When I do launch it myself, I end up closing it after doing a quick check of whatever "subs" I follow. Maybe I'm just using it wrong, but I don't see it working for me personally, and wonder if others might share a similar experience. Since Discord works better for some users and facebook for others, why not just have both? Seems like there's ample motivation in this thread to keep the discourse going elsewhere.
On the news of mtgsalvation closing, I agree it's disappointing stuff. I'm very proud of the community we've built in this thread and the level of insight we were able to achieve through our dedication to a few silly Modern cards. I'll try to update the primer before the site becomes archived to be more comprehensive and include recent developments, and will take recs on how to go about doing that. Thanks to everyone who's contributed over the years!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
*If* we played Mongoose, would that justify wanting to try Domri, Anarch of Bolas, to get the +1 power boost, or does that just water our deck down too much?
Quite nice that we can slam Domri on 3 mana and immediately plus it to cast either green threat. But I think the walker lends itself more easily to the Mandrills build by overtly meshing with Stubborn via Delver pumps and being less counterspell-heavy as a result of playing its threats on average later than the Mongoose builds will want to.
I do like how Mongoose takes pressure off the sideboard for midrange (and especially control) matchups. No more do we need to run stuff like Huntmaster just to outlast enemy removal; we can dodge it entirely as a plan. We do become significantly weaker to more types of grave hate though, incl. stuff like Nihil Spellbomb that we literally have never cared about.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Ugh, yer killin' me [card=Tamiyo, Collector of Tales]Tamiyo[/c]!! Why'd you have to be 4 mana! What a sweet card for us! Unfortunately we'd already get hit with all the discard and sac effects before she can come down. Le sigh...
Even at CMC 3 we might not play this card. At 4 it's easily worse than JTMS, already a dubious include for us.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I think other than exactly Jund and Rock, Huntmaster is just the best 4 drop currently in print for the deck. The value is great and it wins if it sticks, but it also does good stuff like damage through a Bridge, lifegain against the aggro decks, blockers for GDS ... It's just great. Hazoret is probably better against the Thoughtseize decks that don't have Path, but in all the other matchups, I'd rather go a little wider.
Went 2-1 last night. Lost to Phoenix 0-2, though the games were close. Beat both Dredge and Storm 2-0, and the Dredge games were both won by countering key discard outlets with either Shoal or Pierce, not through hate. Surgical wrapped up game 2 against Storm. I stuck a Grafdigger's Cage in over my general catch all, Delay, and never saw it and never wanted to. Phoenix killed me with Thing and Drake, and Cage doesn't do anything there. What I really wanted was another Flame Slash in the 75, so I may try that out next week.
I'm also learning that except in the ultra grindy matchups, I'm probably overboarding. Instead of the 7-10 cards I often sideboard in, I've been more like 3-6 lately and happier for it. The Shoal plan feels great right now against most of the top decks. I'm even going to cut a Blood Moon down to 2 I the board, which feels awful given how much I love that card, but all I want right now are extra Spell Pierces and removal that kills x/4s.
I was also toying with the idea of going down to 1 Snapcaster and playing a Nimble Obstructionist, Vendilion Clique, or even Savage Knuckleblade as my 15th creature. Snapcaster has just been a little slow and I want more ways to close the game faster that don't rely on recasting Bolts. Having a 9th ferocious enabler with Knucks is also super tempting. Thoughts?
I'm on Countercats but despite path I still have to win a game against Phoenix decks. I definitely need to test more, but it's not a great match up for tempo decks.
I feel that 2 moons are enough in this meta.
About knucks: I always love having it in the deck. It can have Haste and sometimes it may also dodge removals. And as a 6/6 can close the games really quickly. The only problem is that it isn't evasive.
Try our sideboard, we like the Phoenix matchup okay:
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
With Wrenn in the deck I think you need FL to turn the fetches into real cards. The exception is if you have a high curve or mana-intensive gameplan to play towards, which we don't.
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Wrenn and Six
Artifacts (2)
2 Mishra’s Bauble
Instants (14)
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
Sorceries (9)
4 Serum Visions
3 Light Up the Stage
2 Faithless Looting
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Temple Garden
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Damping Sphere
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pyroclasm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Veil of Summer
1 Fry
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
http://modernnexus.com/beat-this-evaluating-one-mana-beaters/
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Then there's the question of what to include around it. Force of Negation has been pretty cool in my testing, but I think the cards that best suit the new creature make Force a hard sell. Wrenn, Domri, Looting, and Mutagenic Growth are all cards I've wanted in my build so far.
Also I like Veil of Summer as a sideboard card against Push decks or counterspells. Even countered a Mind Funeral earlier today! Which brings us the final question: how many utility lands should we run, and where? The sideboard Bog seems like a shoe-in, but I'm less sold on even the Blast Zone. Having one Fiery for Wrenn shenanigans seems okay though.
Here's my first draft:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
Instants (17)
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Spell Pierce
2 Mutagenic Growth
1 Mana Leak
1 Dismember
1 Tarfire
Sorceries (6)
4 Serum Visions
2 Faithless Looting
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Fiery Islet
2 Island
1 Forest
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Wrenn and Six
2 Domri, Anarch of Bolas
2 Damping Sphere
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Veil of Summer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Blast Zone
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
- Consider having multiple admins in case something goes wrong with one user. I'd be happy to admin if needed.
- A big benefit of facebook over Discord is that it's thread-based, liked reddit, but you can scroll through the posts, making it more like a forum. I too think this is a cleaner replacement than Discord, which is just a massive chat stream.
- I have Discord but never use it; I don't like the auto-launch, the RAM it takes up while running, or the notifications. When I do launch it myself, I end up closing it after doing a quick check of whatever "subs" I follow. Maybe I'm just using it wrong, but I don't see it working for me personally, and wonder if others might share a similar experience. Since Discord works better for some users and facebook for others, why not just have both? Seems like there's ample motivation in this thread to keep the discourse going elsewhere.
On the news of mtgsalvation closing, I agree it's disappointing stuff. I'm very proud of the community we've built in this thread and the level of insight we were able to achieve through our dedication to a few silly Modern cards. I'll try to update the primer before the site becomes archived to be more comprehensive and include recent developments, and will take recs on how to go about doing that. Thanks to everyone who's contributed over the years!
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Quite nice that we can slam Domri on 3 mana and immediately plus it to cast either green threat. But I think the walker lends itself more easily to the Mandrills build by overtly meshing with Stubborn via Delver pumps and being less counterspell-heavy as a result of playing its threats on average later than the Mongoose builds will want to.
I do like how Mongoose takes pressure off the sideboard for midrange (and especially control) matchups. No more do we need to run stuff like Huntmaster just to outlast enemy removal; we can dodge it entirely as a plan. We do become significantly weaker to more types of grave hate though, incl. stuff like Nihil Spellbomb that we literally have never cared about.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Here's the list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Domri, Anarch of Bolas
Artifacts (4)
4 Mishra’s Bauble
Instants (16)
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Mana Leak
1 Simic Charm
1 Lazotep Plating
1 Tarfire
4 Serum Visions
2 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Slash
Lands (18)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Island
1 Forest
3 Damping Sphere
2 Blood Moon
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Stubborn Denial
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
2 Damping Sphere
2 Pyroclasm
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Negate
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
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Colorless Eldrazi Stompy