May I ask why you chose to not run Duress in your sideboard? It's obviously no main deck material, but it is a better Thoughtsieze in control and combo matchups and its better then Inquisition in Tron matchups.
I will experiment with Peppersmoke as a removal, because I've noticed a lot of small body creatures in my meta. Thinks like Steel Overseer, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or even Vendilion Clique in some control decks. Not sure if that is something that would be applicable to you as well.
I am not playing duress because I am playing Collective Brutality, which is more widely applicable.
Peppersmoke, in a world of Fatal Pushes, is just bad. I know it can potentially cycle, but it is not as common as you would think. It also provides the tribal aspect for opposing tarmogoyfs which is a net negative.
This list definitely not plays an aggressive plan at all. If anything, I would describe it as a much more midrange plan.
Personally, I always disliked Remand in Faeries, especially when you are not heavy on Mistbind Cliques. With MC, you can actually execute (sometimes) a proper tempo plan. But in other cases, it is just too hard. I always preferred hard answers, because if you can't answer the remanded thing, you are likely not winning any way.
All the games I played were long games, which revolved around emptying my opponents hand, establishing some form of board control, and winning late either with BB or manlands. The only "aggressive" take was against lantern, which is what we have to do anyway, and even then, I beat it with creeping tar beats.
It might be that there is a way to fit remand in this list instead of Opt, but I would still prefer the permanent answers and a way to find them, which Opt helps a lot more. I could try 2 Remand/2 Opt, have to think about it more.
Went 3-1 yesterday night, losing only 1 very close match.
I played an unexpected set of matches facing Jund (1-2 loss), Faeries (2-1 Win), Faeries, again (2-1 win), and Lantern Control (2-1 Win).
The Jund games were SO close. The MU is really 50-50 and depends a lot on who gets the early advantage with discards. Game 1 I lost relatively easily. Game 2 I managed to win through 2 BBEs and 1 Lili of the Veil Ulti mainly because of Jace Brainstorm going unchecked for too long. Game 3, even though I had 2 BBs turn 2 and 3 and he went BBE+Bolt, into BBE+ Lili into BBE+Tarmogoyf..... Can't win against that really ever.
The two mirror matches were against very different builds from mine. One was against Faeries with cryptic and Mistbinds and no Jace and the other was against Faeries with thoughtscour+tasigur. Turns out whoever lands BB first wins. If none lands BB, Jace is probably the strongest.
Against Lantern control I just went all aggro. Jace is great but they pithing needle. IF you can keep them off of that, then you win.
Overall I am VERY happy with this counter-less build. Plays much more like a Jund but with more reaction and more avenues to stabilize. Less soft on spot removal, but more fragile to some other things. However the Jace really allows you to play that much discard AND spot removal. I will keep trying this build, I think it is a great way to utilize Jace and props to Piproberts for figuring it out and going 5-0 with it.
Cutting bitterblossom for thoughtseize seems silly to me. If you're at the point where you're cutting bitterblossoms, you should just play U/B control.
I think that jace will not likely be a mainboard card in faeries. In the board for grindy matchups seems more likely.
At the very least, no deck should be playing both mistbind and jace. You either focus more on tempo with mbc, or more on control with jace.
That being said, I think straight U/B control might be viable now, so don't be afraid to drop the faeries and try it out. It might end up being good.
I can't think of many better set-ups than Jace hiding behind BB tokens
Has any one thought of trying Nimble Obstructionist? Can act as a Stifle vs Storm or Primeval Titan, or just a 3/1 beater when you need it. It kind of fills the same slot as Vendilion Clique, but has different uses
So is everyone off ancestral visions at this point?
I haven't played faeries in a little while, but looking at the lists posted, it doesn't seem like anyone's playing them anymore.
Do people just feel that card advantage isn't necessary? Do people expect chart a course to make the cut?
At this point, pretty much the entire format is off AV unfortunately
Right now I play Black/White tokens and I'm working on getting Bitterblossoms for that deck. I checked this thread since I saw that it was using faeries and I was curious.
This looks like something someone could transition to if they started out with BW Tokens. Do you think it's better than tokens?
Edit:
Also is it viable to run a budget faerie build without Liliana or is it not worth running it at all unless you go full ham on the full build?
If you have the time, could you post what build you play? And if anyone has a budget version could you please share it. Thank you.
Several players still run lists without lilis. The most successful ones lately did have her, but it is possible to built ur deck in a why that she is not needed. Transitioning from BW tokens to faeries is not easy since you need snapcasters, cryptic commands and A LOT of lands for the mana base.
I think Tasigur is optimal when combined with Thought Scour and lots of fetches, so you can power him out early. If you're just going to use him as a late-game play, wouldn't Angler be better? It kills Goyfs instead of just blocking them.
The card advantage is very real with Tasigur since all our cards are good. I have played him as a late game finisher and it works really well.
It really is a mix between grixis control and Faeries, something I have been toying with in my mind for a hwile but always thought it would be too weak. I guess with DS prevalence SSS is just super strong by itself.
I also asked Patrick on Twitter about choosing red as a splash and he said it is almost exclusively for Blood Moon in order to combat Eldrazi and Eldrazi Tron.
At the Discord server we agree. Splashing is only effective if the splash adds something REALLY impactful. Splash for Kommand and Bolt and Affo hate is not enough, by a huge margin.
It really is a mix between grixis control and Faeries, something I have been toying with in my mind for a hwile but always thought it would be too weak. I guess with DS prevalence SSS is just super strong by itself.
I also asked Patrick on Twitter about choosing red as a splash and he said it is almost exclusively for Blood Moon in order to combat Eldrazi and Eldrazi Tron.
I'm thinking more of it as a way to blank removal for the Bitterblossom itself. Abrupt Decay is still a thing, after all, and Scion would be your only answer to it.
That's not exactly true. Against all the decks that play AD "(DSJund, Jund, Abzan, Rock) we would like to land a T2 Bitterblossom because it is the best way to grind them out.
To safely land it we have 5-6 discard cards for T1.
We never want to wait until T5 to land BB with scion back up because we have cryptics/Mistbinds for those turns and an active BB is key to make them work.
Additionally, we already have a way to blank an AD by bouncing our BB with CC.
Imho, AD is one of these cases where I prefer to go with the plan, if they have it, they have it. These decks run 0-2 ADs atm, rarely a 3rd in the SB. That gives them slim chances to draw it, especially if we can rip one with discard T1. If they top deck it T2/3, that means they don't do anything else that turn and I can safely land a V. Clique to take their next removal/goyf.
Scion is not worth the slot for such a slim case and is not beneficial for the overall aggro-control strategy. That's why people have stopped playing with it.
Id like to say that faeries is getting a lot of popularity and publicity right now, and while I cant say that this is bad news I don't think the nature of a deck like faeries sustains the hype without people understanding that personalization and comfort with the cards in the deck is of the most importance. I feel like getting in front of the hype somehow is the best thing experienced faeries players could be doing. This is a deck that you HAVE to tweak and test and do research with and put the time in with, moreso than most other decks, and I dont think the hype makes that clear. Its great that we have another good matchup in tier 1 but all the reasons to not play faeries becomes readily apparent when you pick up a list online and jump into games because that list won. These well-placing lists are from players who know their deck and its relationship to the metagame they perceive to be playing in. Its a deck where you have to know your potential outs in any given turn phase of the game, and the many articles I have seen recently dont touch on that at all for suggesting that the deck is worth picking up, which honestly it can be, but only if you want to work with the challenge of pushing it through its faults. The faeries discord has 52 dedicated minds debating A) card choice B) metagame and C) lines of play trying to better their handle on the deck and there isnt one proper go-to list. TLDR the recent metagame hype doesn't explain that there are many ways to build and play faeries to success.
Do you think it would be worth to mention the Faeries discord sever and point to it and this thread under the articles written for Faeries?
But maybe overloaded counter spells with no discard at all. Makes it looks like another Grixis control deck?
Any opinions? Thanks a lot!
Now that's a list I would never play! Great job to the person who 5-0ed but I don't think this is optimal by any means. I might be wrong and the deck might play differently than I expect, but not having more removal as reacting elements atm is kind of suicidal.
4 snares AND 4 Fatal Pushes just overloads the same spot pretty much.
Plus, Grixis Control lists don't play even remotely the same number of counters. A grixis control deck plays 8 counterspells usually (4 cryptic, 2 countersquall, 2 spell snare). That UB list plays 14+4 SSS
Peppersmoke, in a world of Fatal Pushes, is just bad. I know it can potentially cycle, but it is not as common as you would think. It also provides the tribal aspect for opposing tarmogoyfs which is a net negative.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Personally, I always disliked Remand in Faeries, especially when you are not heavy on Mistbind Cliques. With MC, you can actually execute (sometimes) a proper tempo plan. But in other cases, it is just too hard. I always preferred hard answers, because if you can't answer the remanded thing, you are likely not winning any way.
All the games I played were long games, which revolved around emptying my opponents hand, establishing some form of board control, and winning late either with BB or manlands. The only "aggressive" take was against lantern, which is what we have to do anyway, and even then, I beat it with creeping tar beats.
It might be that there is a way to fit remand in this list instead of Opt, but I would still prefer the permanent answers and a way to find them, which Opt helps a lot more. I could try 2 Remand/2 Opt, have to think about it more.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I played an unexpected set of matches facing Jund (1-2 loss), Faeries (2-1 Win), Faeries, again (2-1 win), and Lantern Control (2-1 Win).
The Jund games were SO close. The MU is really 50-50 and depends a lot on who gets the early advantage with discards. Game 1 I lost relatively easily. Game 2 I managed to win through 2 BBEs and 1 Lili of the Veil Ulti mainly because of Jace Brainstorm going unchecked for too long. Game 3, even though I had 2 BBs turn 2 and 3 and he went BBE+Bolt, into BBE+ Lili into BBE+Tarmogoyf..... Can't win against that really ever.
The two mirror matches were against very different builds from mine. One was against Faeries with cryptic and Mistbinds and no Jace and the other was against Faeries with thoughtscour+tasigur. Turns out whoever lands BB first wins. If none lands BB, Jace is probably the strongest.
Against Lantern control I just went all aggro. Jace is great but they pithing needle. IF you can keep them off of that, then you win.
Overall I am VERY happy with this counter-less build. Plays much more like a Jund but with more reaction and more avenues to stabilize. Less soft on spot removal, but more fragile to some other things. However the Jace really allows you to play that much discard AND spot removal. I will keep trying this build, I think it is a great way to utilize Jace and props to Piproberts for figuring it out and going 5-0 with it.
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Mistbind Clique
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
4 Opt
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Dismember
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Field of Ruin
4 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
1 Damnation
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
It really is a mix between grixis control and Faeries, something I have been toying with in my mind for a hwile but always thought it would be too weak. I guess with DS prevalence SSS is just super strong by itself.
I also asked Patrick on Twitter about choosing red as a splash and he said it is almost exclusively for Blood Moon in order to combat Eldrazi and Eldrazi Tron.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
To safely land it we have 5-6 discard cards for T1.
We never want to wait until T5 to land BB with scion back up because we have cryptics/Mistbinds for those turns and an active BB is key to make them work.
Additionally, we already have a way to blank an AD by bouncing our BB with CC.
Imho, AD is one of these cases where I prefer to go with the plan, if they have it, they have it. These decks run 0-2 ADs atm, rarely a 3rd in the SB. That gives them slim chances to draw it, especially if we can rip one with discard T1. If they top deck it T2/3, that means they don't do anything else that turn and I can safely land a V. Clique to take their next removal/goyf.
Scion is not worth the slot for such a slim case and is not beneficial for the overall aggro-control strategy. That's why people have stopped playing with it.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
4 snares AND 4 Fatal Pushes just overloads the same spot pretty much.
Plus, Grixis Control lists don't play even remotely the same number of counters. A grixis control deck plays 8 counterspells usually (4 cryptic, 2 countersquall, 2 spell snare). That UB list plays 14+4 SSS
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Channel Fireball and PV did a Faeries playlist!!!! Weird list though.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past