I feel terrible saying this but I'm kinda mad they reprinted leyline of sanctity, given that it was previously in a masters set. On the flip side, Leyline of the Void definitly needed a reprint.
I hear ya. The cycle started with Core Sets (I assume so anyway, I know Sanctity was M11), so I can see why it's fitting to reprint them now in M20, especially when WoTC is trying to legitimize Core Sets as a whole following their hiatus. However, what kinda bugs me is how close these spoilers + set release are occurring on the heels of MH1. I don't know if WotC assumed there wouldn't be much overlap between players interested in either/or set, but Sanctity & Void are reason enough for any modern player to care about the set IMO. Like a few folks mentioned on the previous page, the close proximity of set releases and disproportionate cost:value ratio of MH1 (at the moment anyway) don't give me much optimism about the supply of MH1 singles continuing to enter the market.
Wow, not even done with spoilers and this Core Set is already more interesting to me than MH1. Regarding horizon lands, I've been pulling the trigger on any I find under $10. Not looking to sit on any more than a playset each +/- 1-2 of certain ones for EDH, but IMO they're a steal under $10 and I'd rather over pay by a few bucks now rather than paying $20+ down the lines whenever I need them. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop with MH1 regarding which cards emerge with sleeper value and despite a few gems like Hodaak, I'm still not seeing there being enough breakout cards to justify box prices while in-print. Therefore, I'm expecting short term set value will primarily depend on the lands, Urza, rare/mythic slivers, force, and the rest of the "money" cards people had identified as "good"/playable prior to release and I'm betting on (most of) the canopy lands adjusting to match the price/trend of Prismatic Vista. Using that same line of reasoning, I can see foil prices for aforementioned cards hitting absurd levels. I could be completely wrong and kicking myself in a month when Nurturing Peatlands are going for $10 a play set, but I think there will be a lot of sellers who look at Horizon Canopy and set an arbitrary floor price, choosing to just sit on them rather than throwing them up for < $8.
Also, just a hot tip for anyone feeling froggy and/or interested in playing Elemental tribal at some point in time: Pick up your Primal Beyonds before they spike. I started buying foils once Lightning Skelemental was spoiled, b/c I was legitimately interested in brewing some elemental tribal lists and I've been following its price since. IMO, it's primed for an outright buyout; one printing in Morningtide, < 100 copies available on TCGplayer, part of the same cycle as Aunties Hovel which spiked up to $30 w/in last few days, and this Core Set featuring an abnormally high number of elemental cards if not an actual set sub-theme. Currently non-foils are ~$5+ for LP+.
Welp, I disregarded my own better judgement and decided to check in late Sunday to see if my LGS had any boxes following pre-release. They did and I caved. I'll list the notable pulls, but long story short is I find it highly unlikely that stores will be able to continue selling packs/boxes at the going rate once the set is officially released. Considering pre-release was essentially a "soft launch" in that boxes could actually be sold early, allowing a higher than normal supply to enter the market before official release, prices are trending down despite there being actual supply of singles. Granted, all it would take is one or two cards finding their way into a solid T1 deck or $1-$2 rares to find homes to raise the value of a box, but I'd just caution anyone about pulling the trigger on any non-foil until some trends emerge. I rarely crack packs, but I've always enjoyed picking up a box of each Masters set and MH1 feels like a spiritual successor. Anyway, here we go:
+ handful foil tokens, X rares currently <$3, solid stack of sweet slivers, & 5-6 uncommons I'll use in EDH
Solid box in terms of personal and entertainment value; Urza + sliver were both on my list of singles to eventually pick up for edh and a foil canopy land was pretty killer. If I opened this box without knowing what it cost, I'd say it was a fantastic above average box. And while I normally don't expect to get more value out of a box vs retail cost, this seemed like one which probably came close. I'm just curious to see where the market is at two weeks from now as supply/demand suggests single prices won't magically spike once more supply is available to the masses.
Tl;Dr: Wasn't thrilled about the set after spoilers, but picked up a box and had a good time. Lucked out finding a foil horizon land + quite a few cards I planned on picking up as singles (albeit mostly for edh). However, the odds of your foil rare being a horizon land are slim and I'm skeptical of the market's ability to sustain single prices enough to keep boxes/boosters propped up at their current price points.
Peak market supply could be 1-2 months from release, if I had to guess. I'm glad I held off on pre-ordering a box for $220. The canopy lands seem like they were meant to push the set in the event that reception of the set was mixed yet prices have been tanking since the end of spoilers. I figured they'd rebound once supply from pre-release entered the market, but that doesn't look likely. I'm actually curious about actual pre-release attendance. I figured I'd head up to my LGS and participate just to try and get some early canopy lands, but then I read it was a $50 buy in.
alhtough I hope the price of these canopy cycle would come down a bit more.. 20-30$ is still expensive.
I think the pre-order prices for horizon lands will stay in that range until release. Guessing when they'll bottom out is tricky as they're brand new, but the fact that they're printed at rare should limit any kind of extreme price gouging once adequate supplies hit the market. IMO prices will likely remain elevated for at least 2-6 weeks following release due to 1) Every modern player who's trying to buy a set to play with ASAP & 2) WotC's method of allocating new sets in a way that satisfies pre-orders, but creates artificial scarcity during the period between release and the second wave of product hitting shelves.
Demand will likely be through the roof initially as I'd imagine most decks will want to a full set and there will be some players looking to buy sets for multiple decks. However, that sort of demand will naturally drive more boxes to be opened and supply should theoretically meet demand at some point in time. Personally, I'll likely pick up the ones I need for current decks once/if I see them below $15/ea. I'd like to have a set of each simply due to the convenience of owning modern real estate for future brews, but I'm going to wait it out and hope there's enough supply to eventually drive them below/around $10-$12.
Glad they printed a land cycle that have horizon canopy ability. Hopefully, it should reduce the price of canopies a little.
Prices of canopy have been falling since the cycle was spoiled and I'd imagine they'll only continue to drop; might plateau a bit in the weeks between end of spoilers and MH release, but once the new horizon lands are actually available and decks currently playing canopy can ditch it to optimize colors, its stock will bottom out. Lands that produce/fetch G/W have typically been the cheapest in their given cycles (Savannah, Windswept Heath,Razorverge Thicket,Temple Garden, etc). Additionally Canopy has now been printed what, three times including the expedition? IMO, anyone who has canopies should dump them ASAP. My Bogles deck runs a playset and will continue to do so as they're on-color, but I still sold my set once the cycle was announced; I don't see a scenario where I wouldn't be able to rebuy them for much less once MH is released.
True, but it's a relevant thing to keep in mind as many folks think of these type of premium sets as a limited time only deal. Nobody said cards will be dirt cheap, but they'll be cheaper than they would be had they been coming from a Modern Masters set.
Ah, yeah it'll definitely be a pickle if the second half of spoilers doesn't deliver. IIRC, Horizon Canopy dropped down to a solid 20-25 throughout the time IMA was in print. That would seem to suggest that 5 Horizon lands spread out among a set without a definite print run cutoff should drop even lower while MH is in print. Assuming that's the scenario where MH ends up being EDH fluff + horizon lands and five other modern-relevant cards, I still think the average price of all 5 lands will be +/- $15, but 1 or 2 of the most sought after will command a premium over the lesser 3-4.
As in 20-25 for a play set? If so, I'd take that deal. If its 20-25 each card then I'd personally hold off. MH being print to demand is the main reason why I'll likely wait a while to mine up. However, I've started to rethink that stance now that we're halfway through spoiler season and those lands are honestly the only modern-relevant cards I'm excited about.
Wow, I haven't been watching the prices for Urza, but I'm planning on playing him (glad I snagged a playset of sword and foundry yesterday). Just saw that the preorders are going for 80 a pop. Hopefully this is a big enough print run to bring that price down, at least to the 40's. Anyone have any thoughts? I rarely buy cards I won't use, so speccing and snagging good deals isn't something I normally do.
Urza is an instant EDH powerhouse. However, I'd be stunned to see him hold onto that kind of a price tag throughout the duration of MH's print cycle. The supply bottleneck will almost surely keep his price lofty early on, but we have confirmation that Horizons is a print to demand set. There will be plenty of product opened to satiate the EDH demand and by the time MH goes out of print, Urza will be a $15 card IMO. Although the MH spoilers have been underwhelming compared to what some people were hoping for out of the set, the Horizon Canopy cycle lands themselves could probably keep a mediocre set afloat throughout its print life. There's still about 2/3 of the set left to reveal, so I doubt there will be any issues with lack of demand once its all on the table. Speccing on anything in this set is probably a losing battle; it's going to be those existing cards that either get better or become relevant due to MH that you'd want to keep an eye on, sword & foundry that you mention are great examples.
On another note, one thing thats got me excited about MH are these slivers getting spoiled. If Modern Slivers becomes a competitive archetype following the MH release, I'll be a happy camper. However, I'm kicking myself hard for listing a Sliver Queen on eBay just last night...of course they're selling for 30%+ more than they were this time yesterday.
The rare lands from the horizon canopy cycle should open up a myriad of possibilities for both established archetypes and brews. Their pre-order price is unsurprisingly high, but considering they are rare in a print to demand set, I'd expect them to wind up somewhere around the 15-20 mark while in print. However, I can see the price of Horizon Canopy itself taking a hit despite it NOT being included in the set.
I don't have time to look up where/when, but, it was basically confirmed that WotC throttles new Standard sets early on to perpetuate that sense of demand. While I wouldn't be surprised if WAR ends up super popular/heavily opened, I would be surprised if the supply of shocks dried up. Prices for shocks were already pretty stagnant in-between RTR block & RTRTR, so the fact that both Ravnica sets were hits as well as Standard arguably being in the best shape its been since OG Innistrad should result in dirt cheap shocklands come rotation time.
So what is everyone's opinion of Newagin and is it worth buying? I know Karn is something to keep an eye on. Anything else to watch for those who only buy play set's for modern decks and brewing?
i mean there is no reason to believe that WAR will NOT be the most opened set of all time. big story arc conclusion, big characters, influx from arena, power level is well above average, etc.
if you wanna buy singles to play, id hold off for a couple of weeks till the market gets saturated. if you have no interest in playing, and its just about expanding your collection then rotation next year is when prices will bottom out (for non-foils at least). most probably wont wanna wait that long, but just go in aware prices will likely dip.
on another note, horizons spoilers start the sunday after next. as cards get revealed, expect prices to spike as people speculate (modern specs have been trending hot as of late). if you were thinking of cutting down on your collection and just didnt know the right time; this would be when you want to keep your eyes peeled. sell into the hype, if not, just know waiting to see if there is organic demand after the dust settles is a risk you are accepting.
Very excited for Horizons spoilers to start flowing in. If WotC did it right, the Modern metagame will look very different in the coming months. The fetchland spikes have settled for now, but unless Horizons introduces a new land cycle that somehow devalues them, I'm expecting that both allied and enemy fetches will surpass their all-time highs before the end of the Summer.
So what is everyone's opinion of Newagin and is it worth buying? I know Karn is something to keep an eye on. Anything else to watch for those who only buy play set's for modern decks and brewing?
IMO the vast majority of the set's Modern potential comes from the uncommon slot; I think many of the static ability walkers will find homes in the format (namely Ashiok, Saheeli, Kiora, Davriel) and while their rarity doesn't make for good specs, I think it'd be wise to pick up some cheap foils once more product is opened and when/if prices settle down to a reasonable point. I think Karn, Ral, & Chandra are some to keep an eye on from the rare slot. Lastly, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens to Tezzeret, master of the bridge; a 6 cmc walker is rough, but if I learned anything from playing during Mirrodin/Darksteel it's that affinity for artifacts can and will be abused if logistically possible; seeing how WotC continues to insist on including promo-only cards in Standard sets, Tezz might be the only card I'd seriously consider speccing on if/when copies can be had for a reasonable price.
Seems new karn is great and I am really surprised he is still so cheap. I am on several discord channels and they all try or play them now sure. Red prison use it 3-4, u-Tron 2 karn, green Tron full playset, whir prison are testing and not sure, same in eldrazi stompy and even I saw death and taxes with karn and liquimetal coating + several brews. I think it will spike soon so I bought some because they can't really fall lower, but great possible spike.
dont forget that it is a standard rare. at these print levels, in a set with so many chase cards at rare and uncommon, it can realistically only climb so high.
This and I do in fact think that it's a bit undervalued as well. I could see this card spiking to around $12-15 each. I think the jury is out a bit about whether he actually increases the win rate of Tron in the current meta or not.
I personally think it does, but I may be biased because it initially doesn't seem like Tron loses percentages and the tool box is sweet as heck!
*But it is a good point that any type of temporary spike will be calmed down a bit since it IS a rare in a set with some pretty insane cards (and prices). I've seen people open boxes and get double the value right away. That definitely won't last. It can't.
Agreed. Lest we not forget Dominaria Karn was once thought to be the next big thing from a standard set, commanding $50+/copy over the 3-4 mo following the sets release. IMO WAR Karn has a better chance of making an actual impact in the format/market, however, we still need to remember it's a rare in a highly popular standard set. I don't think it's ever worth it in the long run paying more than $30 for a Standard card while in rotation if you don't intend to use it for actually playing Standard. But that's just me; I can it potentially reaching that mark for a brief period before the market is saturated with opened product. I'd definitely expect it to hit that mark if it were a mythic, so I'd jump on them before vendors take notice and de-list/re-list +30%.
IMO Arclight is a solid card to reference whenever gauging the worth of anything within a current Standard rotation; mythic from a popular std set that followed another popular std set (never thought I'd say that about the format ever again) and quickly ascended to T1 across multiple formats, yet its ceiling was still +/- $30 until the challenger reprint. Similarly, fetches represent solid data points when looking at long-term value for anything in a popular/widely opened set. It's been what, 5 years since KTK and we just recently started to see significant movement? I think they're a steal right now at $10, but just a quarterly reminder about tempering standard expectations lol.
I hear ya. The cycle started with Core Sets (I assume so anyway, I know Sanctity was M11), so I can see why it's fitting to reprint them now in M20, especially when WoTC is trying to legitimize Core Sets as a whole following their hiatus. However, what kinda bugs me is how close these spoilers + set release are occurring on the heels of MH1. I don't know if WotC assumed there wouldn't be much overlap between players interested in either/or set, but Sanctity & Void are reason enough for any modern player to care about the set IMO. Like a few folks mentioned on the previous page, the close proximity of set releases and disproportionate cost:value ratio of MH1 (at the moment anyway) don't give me much optimism about the supply of MH1 singles continuing to enter the market.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Also, just a hot tip for anyone feeling froggy and/or interested in playing Elemental tribal at some point in time: Pick up your Primal Beyonds before they spike. I started buying foils once Lightning Skelemental was spoiled, b/c I was legitimately interested in brewing some elemental tribal lists and I've been following its price since. IMO, it's primed for an outright buyout; one printing in Morningtide, < 100 copies available on TCGplayer, part of the same cycle as Aunties Hovel which spiked up to $30 w/in last few days, and this Core Set featuring an abnormally high number of elemental cards if not an actual set sub-theme. Currently non-foils are ~$5+ for LP+.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
+ handful foil tokens, X rares currently <$3, solid stack of sweet slivers, & 5-6 uncommons I'll use in EDH
Solid box in terms of personal and entertainment value; Urza + sliver were both on my list of singles to eventually pick up for edh and a foil canopy land was pretty killer. If I opened this box without knowing what it cost, I'd say it was a fantastic above average box. And while I normally don't expect to get more value out of a box vs retail cost, this seemed like one which probably came close. I'm just curious to see where the market is at two weeks from now as supply/demand suggests single prices won't magically spike once more supply is available to the masses.
Tl;Dr: Wasn't thrilled about the set after spoilers, but picked up a box and had a good time. Lucked out finding a foil horizon land + quite a few cards I planned on picking up as singles (albeit mostly for edh). However, the odds of your foil rare being a horizon land are slim and I'm skeptical of the market's ability to sustain single prices enough to keep boxes/boosters propped up at their current price points.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I think the pre-order prices for horizon lands will stay in that range until release. Guessing when they'll bottom out is tricky as they're brand new, but the fact that they're printed at rare should limit any kind of extreme price gouging once adequate supplies hit the market. IMO prices will likely remain elevated for at least 2-6 weeks following release due to 1) Every modern player who's trying to buy a set to play with ASAP & 2) WotC's method of allocating new sets in a way that satisfies pre-orders, but creates artificial scarcity during the period between release and the second wave of product hitting shelves.
Demand will likely be through the roof initially as I'd imagine most decks will want to a full set and there will be some players looking to buy sets for multiple decks. However, that sort of demand will naturally drive more boxes to be opened and supply should theoretically meet demand at some point in time. Personally, I'll likely pick up the ones I need for current decks once/if I see them below $15/ea. I'd like to have a set of each simply due to the convenience of owning modern real estate for future brews, but I'm going to wait it out and hope there's enough supply to eventually drive them below/around $10-$12.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Prices of canopy have been falling since the cycle was spoiled and I'd imagine they'll only continue to drop; might plateau a bit in the weeks between end of spoilers and MH release, but once the new horizon lands are actually available and decks currently playing canopy can ditch it to optimize colors, its stock will bottom out. Lands that produce/fetch G/W have typically been the cheapest in their given cycles (Savannah, Windswept Heath,Razorverge Thicket,Temple Garden, etc). Additionally Canopy has now been printed what, three times including the expedition? IMO, anyone who has canopies should dump them ASAP. My Bogles deck runs a playset and will continue to do so as they're on-color, but I still sold my set once the cycle was announced; I don't see a scenario where I wouldn't be able to rebuy them for much less once MH is released.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Urza is an instant EDH powerhouse. However, I'd be stunned to see him hold onto that kind of a price tag throughout the duration of MH's print cycle. The supply bottleneck will almost surely keep his price lofty early on, but we have confirmation that Horizons is a print to demand set. There will be plenty of product opened to satiate the EDH demand and by the time MH goes out of print, Urza will be a $15 card IMO. Although the MH spoilers have been underwhelming compared to what some people were hoping for out of the set, the Horizon Canopy cycle lands themselves could probably keep a mediocre set afloat throughout its print life. There's still about 2/3 of the set left to reveal, so I doubt there will be any issues with lack of demand once its all on the table. Speccing on anything in this set is probably a losing battle; it's going to be those existing cards that either get better or become relevant due to MH that you'd want to keep an eye on, sword & foundry that you mention are great examples.
On another note, one thing thats got me excited about MH are these slivers getting spoiled. If Modern Slivers becomes a competitive archetype following the MH release, I'll be a happy camper. However, I'm kicking myself hard for listing a Sliver Queen on eBay just last night...of course they're selling for 30%+ more than they were this time yesterday.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Very excited for Horizons spoilers to start flowing in. If WotC did it right, the Modern metagame will look very different in the coming months. The fetchland spikes have settled for now, but unless Horizons introduces a new land cycle that somehow devalues them, I'm expecting that both allied and enemy fetches will surpass their all-time highs before the end of the Summer.
IMO the vast majority of the set's Modern potential comes from the uncommon slot; I think many of the static ability walkers will find homes in the format (namely Ashiok, Saheeli, Kiora, Davriel) and while their rarity doesn't make for good specs, I think it'd be wise to pick up some cheap foils once more product is opened and when/if prices settle down to a reasonable point. I think Karn, Ral, & Chandra are some to keep an eye on from the rare slot. Lastly, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens to Tezzeret, master of the bridge; a 6 cmc walker is rough, but if I learned anything from playing during Mirrodin/Darksteel it's that affinity for artifacts can and will be abused if logistically possible; seeing how WotC continues to insist on including promo-only cards in Standard sets, Tezz might be the only card I'd seriously consider speccing on if/when copies can be had for a reasonable price.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Agreed. Lest we not forget Dominaria Karn was once thought to be the next big thing from a standard set, commanding $50+/copy over the 3-4 mo following the sets release. IMO WAR Karn has a better chance of making an actual impact in the format/market, however, we still need to remember it's a rare in a highly popular standard set. I don't think it's ever worth it in the long run paying more than $30 for a Standard card while in rotation if you don't intend to use it for actually playing Standard. But that's just me; I can it potentially reaching that mark for a brief period before the market is saturated with opened product. I'd definitely expect it to hit that mark if it were a mythic, so I'd jump on them before vendors take notice and de-list/re-list +30%.
IMO Arclight is a solid card to reference whenever gauging the worth of anything within a current Standard rotation; mythic from a popular std set that followed another popular std set (never thought I'd say that about the format ever again) and quickly ascended to T1 across multiple formats, yet its ceiling was still +/- $30 until the challenger reprint. Similarly, fetches represent solid data points when looking at long-term value for anything in a popular/widely opened set. It's been what, 5 years since KTK and we just recently started to see significant movement? I think they're a steal right now at $10, but just a quarterly reminder about tempering standard expectations lol.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.