Kind of jumping the cycle a bit on claiming prices are down. The prices from MM17 rebounded faster then the previous MM sets (meaning hit bottom and headed back up). Usually takes 6 months to see those high end cards get back to their old pricing. We are 2 months in, maybe a bit more? Lets see what the charts look like at the end of summer to see if its a true drop in prices.
I have gone to 2 Glimmervoid and 2 Spire simply because it has gotten easier for my opponent to wipe all my artifacts. Losing all my mana too means game over. Spires allow you to maybe fight back.
I noticed that the modern prices are kind of spiking right now, after a initial decrease in price due to modern masters. Will this trend ever revert soon enough?
I tried to tell people that the player base and especially those who buy and sell heavy amounts of cards had caught on to the patterns after Masters sets come out and with the latest Masters set the cycle would be shorter. I doubt you will see a revert unless there is another reprinting of the cards you wish to get. We more or less learned Wotc wont put fetches back into Standard. So fetches are going to continue to climb. Everything else played, even fringe, is going to continue to climb in price.
Even by trying to buy singles, no one seems to want to get rid of cards anymore.
I have found they are afraid that if they sell/trade today, the card can jump another $3-$5 in the next 24-48 hours. They dont want to miss out on that profit, trade leverage.
That makes sense... Anyway, why does wizzards print such small amounts of the set? Why is the supply so lo that boosters only last a month in stores?
And why won't wizzards print more fetches in standard? It's not like they're overpowered or something.
You have to remember every card in the Masters sets are reprints. There are already a good number of them in circulation. There is no need to saturate the market with the cards and kill the market. The secondary market keeps thousands of gaming stores in business yearly.
As to fetches, 1) they add shuffling to the game, and a lot of it, drawing out matches and events. 2) fetches allow for a more greed mana base. When fetches are in a format you see 3 or more colored decks. When you can play that many colors in a deck, the format devolves to decks that are shoved full of the best cards spread across the colors they wish to run. So fetches are 'bad' for Standard, and fine for older formats. When I say 'bad', I am talking in the eyes of Wotc.
I noticed that the modern prices are kind of spiking right now, after a initial decrease in price due to modern masters. Will this trend ever revert soon enough?
I tried to tell people that the player base and especially those who buy and sell heavy amounts of cards had caught on to the patterns after Masters sets come out and with the latest Masters set the cycle would be shorter. I doubt you will see a revert unless there is another reprinting of the cards you wish to get. We more or less learned Wotc wont put fetches back into Standard. So fetches are going to continue to climb. Everything else played, even fringe, is going to continue to climb in price.
Even by trying to buy singles, no one seems to want to get rid of cards anymore.
I have found they are afraid that if they sell/trade today, the card can jump another $3-$5 in the next 24-48 hours. They dont want to miss out on that profit, trade leverage.
Who would have thought we'd ever see an Uncommon do that in this day of massive print runs?
What massive print runs are you talking about? Wotc changed how the print sets years ago to stop having so much product left over.
From the way it was explained to me, before the change, Wotc printed X amount of product and it was a large amount. Very rarely did they have to do another printing to fill orders.
Now they print X amount to fill all the initial orders. The second printing comes only when they have enough orders to have another run. Very rarely do they do 3rd runs.
I'm aware of this, that's why I said they need to print them asap, so WOTC can set a line for a new format.
You are assuming they have not already decided on a set to start it at.
Reprinting them now, would push off said new format years into the future.
We need a price drop like we saw with onslaught fetches.
I disagree. How long was Legacy going strong with fetches much more expensive then the Zen ones were/are.
You also forget Wotc felt it was a mistake to put the ONS fetches back in Standard. That alone makes me feel we wont ever see Zen fetches in Standard again.
Quote from Ironhorse75 »
Do we have any logical reasoning as to why Tarn is still leader of the pack?
Multiformat staple. Just because the demand out of Modern is low, doesnt mean its low coming from Vintage, Legacy, and EDH. People tend to forget, these are not just 'Modern' cards.
I could see Zen fetches in the fall set, as BFZ rotates. The only lands it would fetch are basics, so it would be fine, and would re-energize the Standard format, and game in general at a time it desperately needs it.
Fetches were not a problem until they created a new set of named lands that the fetches could target.
Printing the fetches asap also allows them to set a line for a new, fetch free format.
I would have to find the place Maro said it, if they do another format, they want it fetch free. Many felt this was aimed at a Frontier type format moved past Khans to remove the fetches. That would lead me to believe we wont see fetches in a Standard set for some time, if ever again.
This isnt new in the game. Its happened in the past. When Legacy was created from 1.5, Legacy cards spiked hard. Add in the RL and the availability was an issue too.
Are you sure about that? When legacy was created, the prices for most cards were uneffected on the european market.
they began to slowly rise, but the first time cards in europe spiked was when SCG (at least i think it was scg, but i might be wrong) bought a lot of legacy staples off the european market.
Sure, prices spiked with the intrest in the usa for legacy. Before, i used to buy "expensive" cards by us vendors, because until then they were cheaper than in europe, even with shipping.
Yes I am sure. The difference is the starting price of the cards and what was considered expensive back when Legacy was started. Back when Legacy was formed players balked at having to pay $12 for a card. Heavily played duals and ONS fetches doubled over night. FOW went from a .25-.50 bulk card that players had in a shoe box under their bed or in back of their closet, all of a sudden were worth between $12-$18 (a lot for the time).
I'm not trying to bash on MtG, but if someone doesn't think Magic is going through a downfall right now from players quitting the game they have to be living under a rock. However, the segment that this is happening with is only a part of the entire player base. Casual players are largely unaffected by a poor standard except through the bad PR it generates, and modern players for the most part don't care about standard outside of how the cards from it fit into modern.
Modern prices do get impacted by the health of standard indirectly, though. Standard drives interest in Magic and the more interest in Magic the more opportunities there are for players to get introduced to alternative formats like Modern. A weak standard drops interest in the game as a whole, which leaves the market in the hands of players who are mostly already established in it.
This isnt new in the game. Its happened in the past. When Legacy was created from 1.5, Legacy cards spiked hard. Add in the RL and the availability was an issue too.
Standard will rebound, it always does. Players will always come and go for what ever reason. Some get bored, others need to free up money for other things.
Wizards knows they cant have a continually high level Standard to keep the majority interested. Standard ebbs and flows. Has its highs and lows. Once Standard comes around again, things will be fine all around. Right now things are a little out of balance, but it wont last.
Quote from FoodChainGoblin »
Then I also had a super tough time finding Eternal Witness foils, especially the original printing.
The original foil EW has been a tough find for years. I was looking for some for a friend before the first reprinting and could only find 3. Then the reprint and the originals spiked some so the guy I was looking for didnt want to pay the new price. Now they are very hard to find.
I believe they changed the frequency of foils in boxes in Lorwyn or Shards.
On the topic of prices of MM3. I think the player base has learned and they all tried to jump the trend causing an earlier rise in process. The supply has not fully been found out but demand has sky rocketed. I said before 6 months before prices are back to what they were on the playable staples, now I am thinking 2-3 months. If you have not bought the cards you were waiting on falling, they already hit their floor and are going to be going back up if they have not already.
I actually wonder about this. I mean, when M13 was printed, standard was doing fine to very good. Now, with standard stinking it up, there may be more folks in the market for modern staples which could lead to some volatility. A second wave, if there is one, may be necessary to cover demand.
I have talked to a lot of people, read a lot of articles, forums. The general consensus is there will be another run form the player base side. Then I talk to multiple LGS owners and they have heard nothing about the possibility of a second run. (A few LGS owners admitted they had been told more MM2015 was going to be printed in the future, they just were not told when.)
Personally I think because Standard is in a bad place right now, Wotc wants players to concentrate on Standard, not Modern. The next set comes out in a month. I dont think Wotc is going to do a second run to interfere with the next Standard set. I do think, maybe, Wotc will throw a few boxes at LGS around the holidays. (Thanksgiving/Christmas) But a full second run? I doubt it.
If the only difference is the lack of GP's, which those cards get into circulation, the difference will be minimal. A shift of a few thousands boxes being opened at a GP spread out over all the lGS means maybe a box or so per store more. That is figuring same print run the same as MM2015. I dont consider a box or so .. A LOT of product per store.
Just curious. Has anyone talked to store owners and asked how supply stacked up to other MM releases, now that it is officially released?
From the 8 LGS owners I spoke to over the weekend, was roughly the same as it was for MM2015. Of those 8 LGS, 6 were out of product as of Saturday night. 1 had a case (4 boxes) left out of their allocation, and the last LGS had 3 cases (12 boxes). The last LGS was charging $245 a box and was the most expensive of the area.
None have heard anything about another print run and none knew if they could or would get more.
Really? Because the hands without mox opal feel awful, Affinity is awful if it goes with the traditional drop 1 on turn one, drop two on turn 2, etc. One of the reasons I sold my Opals is because I worry about the prices tanking. Mox opal does not feel like a good spec
Affinity is just a bunch of synergetic cards glued together, the cards themselves are awful
You are missing the point of Affinity was a deck prior to Mox Opals printing, and a high level top deck at that.
But like I said, dont believe me. Go play in an event without Opals and see how you do. I have done it. Its really not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The deck would adjust.
It can piss you off all you want, but I definitely value his opinion more than yours, considering he plays the deck nearly exclusively, works with WOTC, and is their statistics man.
They are also in position to influence the player base's thinking.
Those same people said Jund was dead without DRS, yet it lives, they said Jund was dead without BBE, yet it lives.
People get use to playing with recent additions to decks and tend to forget they were decks prior to those recent editions, and top level decks.
If you have a Modern scene near you, play Affinity without Mox Opals for one tournament. I think you may be surprised how well it works without them. Or dont, let others dictate how you think. Its up to you.
Hey JuzamJace,
If you are buying Mox Opal and Arcbound Ravager masterpiece cards then yes they are likely to hold value. They cards are so rare that the price will stay high even if the cards are reprinted with regular pictures. If you want to have decks in the future to play with I'd just buy play sets of cards you can use for different modern decks. $800 can probably buy four modern decks or more depending on the deck. If you want to speculate on Jace, the Mind Sculptor now would be a good time if you can get him for $60 or less. His price will probably go back up $100 just because he is the most notorious card. I don't think wizards is going to unban anything else from modern for years. I'm basing jace and stoneforge demand off of commander. If you want to speculate on stoneforge you can but I wouldn't, it's very likely to see future reprints.
Thanks for the input! I don't really care about. Holding more decks cause I don't play anymore. It's figured I'd build the Affinity deck to have something. I think I'm going to stick to my original plan and buy those cards in masterpiece collection and buy up Jace's with the leftover. I've been lucky with JtmS so far.
This makes no sense, if opal dies, Ravager dies
Frank Karsten wrote about a year ago that Affinity could not survive a mox opal ban and would no longer be competitively viable
Frank Karsen's opinion on affinity>Every random on reddit and mtgsalvation combined
This thinking by certain high level players pisses me off. Affinity was a very fast explosive deck prior to the printing of Mox Opal. To say Affinity would die because of a ban is unfair. Its like saying Jund would die with a BBE banning.
@cfusionpm, gratz on your foils breaking the $100 level. I would buy them while you can because they will be going back up soon.
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You have to remember every card in the Masters sets are reprints. There are already a good number of them in circulation. There is no need to saturate the market with the cards and kill the market. The secondary market keeps thousands of gaming stores in business yearly.
As to fetches, 1) they add shuffling to the game, and a lot of it, drawing out matches and events. 2) fetches allow for a more greed mana base. When fetches are in a format you see 3 or more colored decks. When you can play that many colors in a deck, the format devolves to decks that are shoved full of the best cards spread across the colors they wish to run. So fetches are 'bad' for Standard, and fine for older formats. When I say 'bad', I am talking in the eyes of Wotc.
I tried to tell people that the player base and especially those who buy and sell heavy amounts of cards had caught on to the patterns after Masters sets come out and with the latest Masters set the cycle would be shorter. I doubt you will see a revert unless there is another reprinting of the cards you wish to get. We more or less learned Wotc wont put fetches back into Standard. So fetches are going to continue to climb. Everything else played, even fringe, is going to continue to climb in price.
I have found they are afraid that if they sell/trade today, the card can jump another $3-$5 in the next 24-48 hours. They dont want to miss out on that profit, trade leverage.
What massive print runs are you talking about? Wotc changed how the print sets years ago to stop having so much product left over.
From the way it was explained to me, before the change, Wotc printed X amount of product and it was a large amount. Very rarely did they have to do another printing to fill orders.
Now they print X amount to fill all the initial orders. The second printing comes only when they have enough orders to have another run. Very rarely do they do 3rd runs.
You are assuming they have not already decided on a set to start it at.
Reprinting them now, would push off said new format years into the future.
I disagree. How long was Legacy going strong with fetches much more expensive then the Zen ones were/are.
You also forget Wotc felt it was a mistake to put the ONS fetches back in Standard. That alone makes me feel we wont ever see Zen fetches in Standard again.
Multiformat staple. Just because the demand out of Modern is low, doesnt mean its low coming from Vintage, Legacy, and EDH. People tend to forget, these are not just 'Modern' cards.
I would have to find the place Maro said it, if they do another format, they want it fetch free. Many felt this was aimed at a Frontier type format moved past Khans to remove the fetches. That would lead me to believe we wont see fetches in a Standard set for some time, if ever again.
Yes I am sure. The difference is the starting price of the cards and what was considered expensive back when Legacy was started. Back when Legacy was formed players balked at having to pay $12 for a card. Heavily played duals and ONS fetches doubled over night. FOW went from a .25-.50 bulk card that players had in a shoe box under their bed or in back of their closet, all of a sudden were worth between $12-$18 (a lot for the time).
This isnt new in the game. Its happened in the past. When Legacy was created from 1.5, Legacy cards spiked hard. Add in the RL and the availability was an issue too.
Standard will rebound, it always does. Players will always come and go for what ever reason. Some get bored, others need to free up money for other things.
Wizards knows they cant have a continually high level Standard to keep the majority interested. Standard ebbs and flows. Has its highs and lows. Once Standard comes around again, things will be fine all around. Right now things are a little out of balance, but it wont last.
The original foil EW has been a tough find for years. I was looking for some for a friend before the first reprinting and could only find 3. Then the reprint and the originals spiked some so the guy I was looking for didnt want to pay the new price. Now they are very hard to find.
I believe they changed the frequency of foils in boxes in Lorwyn or Shards.
On the topic of prices of MM3. I think the player base has learned and they all tried to jump the trend causing an earlier rise in process. The supply has not fully been found out but demand has sky rocketed. I said before 6 months before prices are back to what they were on the playable staples, now I am thinking 2-3 months. If you have not bought the cards you were waiting on falling, they already hit their floor and are going to be going back up if they have not already.
I have talked to a lot of people, read a lot of articles, forums. The general consensus is there will be another run form the player base side. Then I talk to multiple LGS owners and they have heard nothing about the possibility of a second run. (A few LGS owners admitted they had been told more MM2015 was going to be printed in the future, they just were not told when.)
Personally I think because Standard is in a bad place right now, Wotc wants players to concentrate on Standard, not Modern. The next set comes out in a month. I dont think Wotc is going to do a second run to interfere with the next Standard set. I do think, maybe, Wotc will throw a few boxes at LGS around the holidays. (Thanksgiving/Christmas) But a full second run? I doubt it.
From the 8 LGS owners I spoke to over the weekend, was roughly the same as it was for MM2015. Of those 8 LGS, 6 were out of product as of Saturday night. 1 had a case (4 boxes) left out of their allocation, and the last LGS had 3 cases (12 boxes). The last LGS was charging $245 a box and was the most expensive of the area.
None have heard anything about another print run and none knew if they could or would get more.
You are missing the point of Affinity was a deck prior to Mox Opals printing, and a high level top deck at that.
But like I said, dont believe me. Go play in an event without Opals and see how you do. I have done it. Its really not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The deck would adjust.
They are also in position to influence the player base's thinking.
Those same people said Jund was dead without DRS, yet it lives, they said Jund was dead without BBE, yet it lives.
People get use to playing with recent additions to decks and tend to forget they were decks prior to those recent editions, and top level decks.
If you have a Modern scene near you, play Affinity without Mox Opals for one tournament. I think you may be surprised how well it works without them. Or dont, let others dictate how you think. Its up to you.
This thinking by certain high level players pisses me off. Affinity was a very fast explosive deck prior to the printing of Mox Opal. To say Affinity would die because of a ban is unfair. Its like saying Jund would die with a BBE banning.
@cfusionpm, gratz on your foils breaking the $100 level. I would buy them while you can because they will be going back up soon.