Personally I don't think I would ever take out Mutagenic Growth entirely. Without that card turn 2 kills are impossible, and we are usually trying to race our opponents.
incorrect, you can turn 2 kill with Becoming immense and +4/+4 if oyu use gitaxian probe plus fetches
Here's the match ups I had
Red Deck wins 2-1
BW Tokens 1-2
GW Hatebears 2-0
Jund 0-2
Abzan Company 2-0
U/W Eldrazi 1-2
Affinity 1-2
I can't remember the other decks but I remember winning the dice roll was always a huge factor to winning, I remember siding out dismember and rancor a lot so I feel like I might want to swap rancors for mutagentic growth 3 and 4 and move the 3rd dismember to the sideboard. Any tips?
That is true. However a couple of things:
1 I didn't think lists are main boarding spell skite, so my protection spells main board are spell pierce, vines and blessing, all of which cost 1.
2 that means I can cast distortion strike on turn 2 while holding counter spell back up, getting guaranteed early damage in.
3 I still get it in the grave for turn 3 for become immense, plus I no longer need mutagenic growth for the pump, only for the grave so it could even be a gitaxian probe.
4 That means I don't need the pendelhaven in the hand for turn 3 kill, which means my variation is more likely as well.
It seems like people are looking for speed in infect more than ever. If this is the case do people think that distortion strike might be a stronger option that Slip through spaces? The extra +1/+1 means that over 2 turns you can use only a become immense to get to 10 infect, or only use a +4/+4 if you have a hierarch already in play or it's on the corrupter that people are playing so much of. I feel like Slip through Spaces is just not as strong at ensuring a consistent early turn win.
The main problem with BUG infect compared to UG Infect is that you're trading consistency for tools that sometimes aren't really that relevant to our game plan, considering we're a combo deck and consistency is very important.
I feel like twisted image isn't as good in the deck compared to serum visions mainboard. You need a target for twisted image to get the free card draw and we don't always have one early that we can target (I'm not going to target my spellskite or Noble Hierarch just for a card draw). Obviously after sideboarding if you have a couple in their they are very interchangeable with serum visions if there are relevant targets, but I prefer to have cards like dismember because it can kill anything that twisted image can get rid of and more because of it's ability take care of problem cards like Eidolon and Melira
Their wrath effects are very painful, they make all our protection spells useless :/ you don't want to Dispel their Violent Outburst save it for Ricochet Trap or Beast Within, you may want Spell Pierce in your 75 it may be used on cascaded Living End and they usually can't pay for it.
Sometimes, you may let them destroy your Blighted agent so their living end won't leave your board empty.
Also be careful when using apostle's blessing as a protection from Beast Within protection from green disables any pump spell that had not resolved yet.
I would side out spellskites game 2 since they're not really effective against Shriekmaw and side in counterspells and graveyard hate.
I haven't played the matchup very often but it's not the easiest one, I think that our counterspells are our best weapons against it, just save counterspells for living end and force them into the "hard casting creatures" way.
Ok, thank you. I thought the Spell Pierce seemed right because it's the only way to counter their stuff with Living End being a sorcery. I will admit i didn't think of the Blighted Agent trick and I might use that for next time. I think I'll move some numbers in the sb around because there isn't a lot of dispel targets in my meta at the moment so I think I'll take out a twisted image and 2 dispel for 3 spell pierce and then for sideboarding against Living End I'll go:
So the scenario is this, if you see your that you can tap out to kill your opponent with Inkmoth Nexus and Become Immense, and you know your opponent has a Tarmogoyf and a Verdant Catacombs in hand, but not the other two cards, with a Dark Confidant in play, do you go for the win knowing that if the game streches for a turn or two longer you're likely to lose.
I think there's no correct answer until you know what are the two other cards in your opponent's hand, another play would be casting Apostle's Blessing main phase naming black for Abrupt Decay or Terminate and then decide after his response, but once again since you don't know what he have in hand, you want to keep Blessing as a defensive card.
vs Jund I tend to go all in more than with other matchups, they want to trade their cards with ours, and we can't afford that card disadvantage, going all-in for the win will depend if you're a plunger or not
If you have a nexus in play a pump and a protection spell in hand, you can wait a turn , if you draw anything but a creature you would be able to go for a less risky win.
That was my train of thought, but then he was able to get a Night of the Soul's betray which lead to game. I think you're right though, and just passing the turn was the correct response, because more often than not that will lead to a safe win the following turn, just in this scenario he has an "I win card" which killed me.
I realise this, I must of phrased my question wrong then. In the scenario I had only 2 mana up and 4 cards in the graveyard, therefore if I was to play Become immense I would be tapped out. However if I play apostle's blessing for 1, upon casting it I also add one more card to my graveyard so I will have 1 mana open and 5 cards in the graveyard, so I can cast both in that scenario. Either way upon checking the rules I've come to the conclusion that my purposed game plan would not of worked. As if I were to cast apostle's blessing, it wouldn't enter the graveyard until the stack had ended, therefore I would not have it in the graveyard to delve for Become Immense. So the scenario is this, if you see your that you can tap out to kill your opponent with Inkmoth Nexus and Become Immense, and you know your opponent has a Tarmogoyf and a Verdant Catacombs in hand, but not the other two cards, with a Dark Confidant in play, do you go for the win knowing that if the game streches for a turn or two longer you're likely to lose.
there was three rounds so we each got a bye and versed each other. I versed a goyf-less Abzan list and won 2-1, nothing interesting really and then I versed Jund and lost 1-2, this is where the interesting decision that lost me the match came in. It was game 3 I knew two of the 4 cards in his hand, I had an apostle's Blessing and a become immense in hand, and just enough mana and cards in the graveyard to become immmense for the win, was the correct response to apostle's blessing, calling red, expecting a bolt/terminate in response, hope for a bolt or nothing then become immense if there are only two cards that i don't know in his hand?
Ah, ok. Well the main thing that like about Tom Ross is that he took out the mutagenic growths. With the 4 Might of the Old Krosa, 4 Might of the Old Krosa, 3 Groundswell and 3 Become Immense I have 14 cards that I can use for a 3 turn kill with 2 copies of each card. The thing I disliked about Mutagenic growth is that it doesn't give a huge bonus, and I feel the main time it's relevant is on turn 2. I'll admit getting rid of the main way to get a turn two kill ( I can still theoretically get one with double fetch land, double gitaxian probe, Groundswell/Might and Become Immense) can be a little bit un appealing, but I like that I get to play what feels like very consistent turn 3-4 wins. What are the main reasons that Tom Ross's list is based for a blue opponent meta, is there specific cards in this list that he does/doesn't play that improve certain matchups? I think reconsidering the lack of evasion I'd go.
Main :
-1 Dryad Arbor
-1 Piracy Charm
-1 Spellskite
+2 Rancor/Distortion Strike (Need to test to see which one I like more)
+1 Wild defiance
Side :
-1 Relic
-1 Piracy Charm
+1 Wild Defiance
+1 Spellskite
Does that look like a better list for a more general meta?
incorrect, you can turn 2 kill with Becoming immense and +4/+4 if oyu use gitaxian probe plus fetches
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Viridian Corrupter
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest
3 Breeding Pool
2 Pendelhaven
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
3 Become Immense
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Spell Pierce
1 Apostle's Blessing
2 Rancor
1 Dismember
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Nature's Claim
2 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Twisted Image
2 Viridian Corrupter
Here's the match ups I had
Red Deck wins 2-1
BW Tokens 1-2
GW Hatebears 2-0
Jund 0-2
Abzan Company 2-0
U/W Eldrazi 1-2
Affinity 1-2
I can't remember the other decks but I remember winning the dice roll was always a huge factor to winning, I remember siding out dismember and rancor a lot so I feel like I might want to swap rancors for mutagentic growth 3 and 4 and move the 3rd dismember to the sideboard. Any tips?
1 I didn't think lists are main boarding spell skite, so my protection spells main board are spell pierce, vines and blessing, all of which cost 1.
2 that means I can cast distortion strike on turn 2 while holding counter spell back up, getting guaranteed early damage in.
3 I still get it in the grave for turn 3 for become immense, plus I no longer need mutagenic growth for the pump, only for the grave so it could even be a gitaxian probe.
4 That means I don't need the pendelhaven in the hand for turn 3 kill, which means my variation is more likely as well.
Ok, thank you. I thought the Spell Pierce seemed right because it's the only way to counter their stuff with Living End being a sorcery. I will admit i didn't think of the Blighted Agent trick and I might use that for next time. I think I'll move some numbers in the sb around because there isn't a lot of dispel targets in my meta at the moment so I think I'll take out a twisted image and 2 dispel for 3 spell pierce and then for sideboarding against Living End I'll go:
-2 Spellskite
-3 Apostle's Blessing
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+3 Spell Pierce
3 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Pendelhaven
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Spellskite
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Become Immense
4 Groundswell
2 Rancor
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Serum Visions
3 Nature's Claim
2 Spellskite
3 Dismember
3 Dispel
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Twisted Image
That was my train of thought, but then he was able to get a Night of the Soul's betray which lead to game. I think you're right though, and just passing the turn was the correct response, because more often than not that will lead to a safe win the following turn, just in this scenario he has an "I win card" which killed me.
3 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Spellskite
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Become Immense
4 Groundswell
3 Apostle's Blessing
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Serum Visions
1 Sylvan Scrying
3 Nature's Claim
1 Spellskite
3 Dismember
3 Dispel
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Twisted Image
there was three rounds so we each got a bye and versed each other. I versed a goyf-less Abzan list and won 2-1, nothing interesting really and then I versed Jund and lost 1-2, this is where the interesting decision that lost me the match came in. It was game 3 I knew two of the 4 cards in his hand, I had an apostle's Blessing and a become immense in hand, and just enough mana and cards in the graveyard to become immmense for the win, was the correct response to apostle's blessing, calling red, expecting a bolt/terminate in response, hope for a bolt or nothing then become immense if there are only two cards that i don't know in his hand?
Main :
-1 Dryad Arbor
-1 Piracy Charm
-1 Spellskite
+2 Rancor/Distortion Strike (Need to test to see which one I like more)
+1 Wild defiance
Side :
-1 Relic
-1 Piracy Charm
+1 Wild Defiance
+1 Spellskite
Does that look like a better list for a more general meta?