trying out manamorphose and doing quite well on mtgo.
After all is very similar to probe.
Do you think that is viable?
Not a fan of Manamorphose. I've never tried it in UR but I have tried it in other decks as just a cantrip and I've found that a cantrip needs to do something besides just draw a card. Unlike a Probe which can always be paid with like Manamorphose is vulnerable to disruption, if it gets countered or Remanded you're out 2 mana and that tends to be a pretty big deal. I also find pure cantrips to be a bit unstable in the opening hand. They make mulligan decisions far more difficult as the cantrip represents a wildcard rather than information about your hand.
Path is a better all-around card and it is maindeckable. WUR also gains enough life off of Lightning Helix to negate the damage from running 3 colors, has much stronger sideboard options, has stronger threats (Geist of Saint Traft and occasionally Mantis Rider), and is more resistant to sweepers with Boros Charm.
Right, I'm just saying straight UR has answers. You can counter it coming down and post board you can blow it up. UWR has more answers, but that's the whole benefit to having another color.
I think Trespass is doable, I'm going to run a couple to try it out atleast. The potential upside seems huge.
Monastery Mentor I can't get behind though, 3 mana is so much more than 2, particularly in a deck like this, I think the only way to make Mentor work is to have a huge number of Phyrexian Mana spells.
From my testing with 2 Temporal Trespass, 4 Cruise, 4 Thought Scour UR Delver, TT is pretty good in this deck...at least when it's ahead. It locks up games against combo often enough, and I often cast it for 3-4 mana. It's nutty with Young Pyromancer.
Have you ever tried Logic Knot? Knowing just how much this deck can afford to Delve I'm wondering if it may be worthwhile as a 2 of.
Well, with less Delving going on I think I'll be moving back to Electrolyze over Forked Bolt. Thinking my Sword of Fire and Ice will be coming back too. If I were going to run two Swords what would people run? 2 F&I or a split?
Also, I think I'm on the 2x Temporal Trespass plan. Getting another combat step in a deck like this is pretty helpful. The SB is in pretty major flux so I'll ignore that, but I'm loving that Swiftspear can recede back into the depths of hell from whence it came.
You would rather play cards that are more relevant in more match ups. Dying to Bolt is a huge tempo swing, and 4 mana seems like too much of an investment. For 4 mana, you could be playing Cryptic Command to tap all creatures and go for the kill.
Some argument can be made for Sower of Temptation replacing Threads of Disloyalty. However, Threads is one mana cheaper, which means it usually comes out turns ahead, and it doesn't die to Bolt/Path/removal. Abrupt Decay does hit Threads of Disloyalty, but at least that's one fewer removal for something that hits every card in the deck.
Well, I'm talking about sideboard, I'm pretty sure I don't want to run it main for precisely the reason you said, it's just too much of a tempo hit to lose it to Path/Bolt. Anyways, I threw it in the sideboard of my Delver deck then loaned the deck out to someone at FNM this week while I played Pod. The two of us played in round 1 and during game 2 the Sower was used against me as it stole an Archangel of Thune and then beat me down. I don't know if he played it in any other matches but I was pleased with how it worked in the one I had intended it for.
How do people feel about Sower of Temptation? I'm thinking about it as a sideboard card for Pod but I think it has some other applications as well. The upside I'm seeing here is that it deals with a resolved Rhino or Baneslayer out of the Birthing Pod, or any other 5 drop and most of their removal misses it. At the same time I've never liked my Delver of Secrets in the matchup, they simply die too easily. So I'm thinking about a post board plan of -1 Delver +1 Sower (besides my other SB cards). What do people think?
I wouldn't bring in the Blood Moon, they have too many Mana Dorks for it to be effective. I'd rather have a Smash and a Gitaxian Probe. Taking out all the Remands, especially on the play, I don't like either. I'd much rather take out a Spell Snare. I would also say that Magma Spray is MUCH better on the board than Pillar of Flame since the only times you want it in is for board control, and it kills a Finks and Redcap on its life gain trigger so that it can't be Podded.
Killing the mana dorks isn't much of a problem in my experience, the bigger problem is that Pod runs 5 basics and isn't afraid to fetch them. That makes the Blood Moon pretty hit or miss, you really need to watch game 1 and pay attention to how that particular opponent fetches. If they go overboard on the shocks you can possibly get them with Blood Moon but if they go out of their way to grab basics it's less likely to work. I guess I should have included mentioning that, Blood Moon is a card (atleast in this matchup) that requires you to get a read on your opponent from game 1. Some players will send strong signals that it works on them while other players will signal the opposite. Sometimes when I'm on Pod and I know my opponent has Blood Moon I'll intentionally over fetch the shocks in game 1 just to make them bring in some dead Blood Moons in game 2. That said, Blood Moon still stops Gavony and if the game goes long that's something you need to have a plan to handle.
It's a fair point on Magma Spray, I'll think about that the next time I run Delver. I like having the ability to go to the face to compensate for fewer Swiftspears but maybe you're right and I should just worry about the board. If they lack a board they'll die anyways.
Remand I don't find to be particularly effective against Pod because they'll eventually land the Pod most likely and from then on it's all about tutoring creatures rather than casting spells. Even when they don't land the Pod they can just start the Gavony beatdowns, and then there's Voice which makes countering more difficult.
2) Second question is about tactics against Pod. Should we play full aggro siding out counterspells or maybe more controlish shooting their dorks and so on? What are the best sideboard cards against them? How Blood Moon shows itself in this matchup?
I play the Delver vs Pod matchup a lot from both sides of the table. You can beat every creature they play but you have to watch out for the Pod itself. If I can land a Pod I only lose to 3+ Cruises, that said you'll hit a lot of Cruises in the match because I find it to go long so a resolved Pod is very beatable. Aggression doesn't work well against Pod because Pontiff and Redcap just do too much damage to the board position, instead I look to go long and grind advantage. Here's the list I play, it's not tuned specifically for Pod but it does go about 55/45 against Pod, you'll notice that I'm less on the aggression plan in general since I do fewer Swiftspear/more Snap but it works. I was influenced a bit by one of the Madrid or Milan lists that splashed white for Geist.
My sideboard plan is generally -2 Vapor Snag, -4 Remand, -1 Gitaxian Probe (Probe should probably be another cut but I'm not sure what) +1 Dismember, +2 Pillar of Flame, +1 Hibernation, +1 Combust, +2 Blood Moon. Smash to Smithereens is decent too but you run into issues of what to take out. I used to use them over Dismember/Hibernation, those are new cards I've been trying out to reasonable success. In general I try to use my Swiftspears as Fireballs rather than Goblin Guides. The best play you can make in the match is to Gut Shot a manadork on T1, the next best play is to kill a manadork+something with Forked Bolt.
Seeker over snapcaster? or over Monastery?
I play 14 creatures and my delvers already have difficult flipping...
A 2/2 for 2 mana that sometimes is a 3/3 lifelink and doesn't do nothing when etb is barely playable in standard...
- L
A 1/2 haste for 1 mana that's sometimes a 2/3 isn't playable in standard at all, yet we play Monastery Swiftspear. It's better to look at prowess cards in this deck as if they'll get to trigger once each turn, we have the spells to consistently do that. I'd certainly consider a 3/3 lifelink for 1W at least in the sideboard, as it's useful in both the delver mirror and burn MUs, which are about a third of the meta right now. And splashing white for Helix definitely gives you an edge in both matchups.
There's a big difference between 1 mana with haste and 2 mana without haste.
I have played him, not in Delver but I have tried him in Modern and he just didn't work well. The bar to play a 4 mana card especially in a deck like this is really high. Aside from the fact that he makes Delver, Snapcaster Mage, and Young Pyromancer worse his +1 ability is quite poor in Modern. It didn't work in INN/RTR Standard because that format went tall (Tamiyo worked better) and it did work in RTR/THS Standard because you were going wide. The thing is however there is an absolutely massive difference between 2 and 3 power creatures against Jace. In Modern you're dealing with 3 power creatures which reduce to 2 and still hit you hard enough to matter, back in Standard you were reducing 2 to 1 which was a much bigger difference.
None of that is even bringing up how difficult it is to hit 4 mana on turn 4 in an 18 land deck.
Here's a handy metric for you. Sword of Fire and Ice is about equal in costing to 4 in a turn. The Sword was already just barely making the cut before Treasure Cruise, if it made the cut at all. Any 4 cost card you consider needs to be better than the Sword to even be an option as the Sword no longer makes the cut.
I see, so how would I get in thru their sequence? I'm not really that informed with all of the rules yet.
You need to wait until you have priority. If they have a Pod down and play a Kitchen Finks you can respond to the gain life trigger. If they have a Pod down and play a Melira, provided they do nothing else but activate Pod your first chance to respond will be after they pay the costs of Birthing Pod and put the effect on the stack, at which point they'll have sacrificed a creature. Then Pod resolves, a creature comes in, and they have priority again. You'll get priority either during the resolution of the ETB trigger, when they do something else, or when they pass priority to move to the next phase.
Jace seems really bad, aside from trying to cast a 4 drop in your 18 land deck he doesn't even guarantee you survive until turn 5. Aggro creatures from Zoo are 3 power, reducing them to 2 means you're still taking 6 damage instead of say 9. 6 is likely still lethal and he has no synergy with the rest of the deck.
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Not a fan of Manamorphose. I've never tried it in UR but I have tried it in other decks as just a cantrip and I've found that a cantrip needs to do something besides just draw a card. Unlike a Probe which can always be paid with like Manamorphose is vulnerable to disruption, if it gets countered or Remanded you're out 2 mana and that tends to be a pretty big deal. I also find pure cantrips to be a bit unstable in the opening hand. They make mulligan decisions far more difficult as the cantrip represents a wildcard rather than information about your hand.
Right, I'm just saying straight UR has answers. You can counter it coming down and post board you can blow it up. UWR has more answers, but that's the whole benefit to having another color.
I was using Combust to good success against Rhino. Of course UWR has Combust and Celestial Purge.
I think Trespass is doable, I'm going to run a couple to try it out atleast. The potential upside seems huge.
Monastery Mentor I can't get behind though, 3 mana is so much more than 2, particularly in a deck like this, I think the only way to make Mentor work is to have a huge number of Phyrexian Mana spells.
Have you ever tried Logic Knot? Knowing just how much this deck can afford to Delve I'm wondering if it may be worthwhile as a 2 of.
Also, I think I'm on the 2x Temporal Trespass plan. Getting another combat step in a deck like this is pretty helpful. The SB is in pretty major flux so I'll ignore that, but I'm loving that Swiftspear can recede back into the depths of hell from whence it came.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Steam Vents
5 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures 13
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Gut Shot
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Electrolyze
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Vapor Snag
2 Temporal Trespass
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
But they can still turn a 2 drop into a Reclamation Sage or Abrupt Decay it.
Well, I'm talking about sideboard, I'm pretty sure I don't want to run it main for precisely the reason you said, it's just too much of a tempo hit to lose it to Path/Bolt. Anyways, I threw it in the sideboard of my Delver deck then loaned the deck out to someone at FNM this week while I played Pod. The two of us played in round 1 and during game 2 the Sower was used against me as it stole an Archangel of Thune and then beat me down. I don't know if he played it in any other matches but I was pleased with how it worked in the one I had intended it for.
Killing the mana dorks isn't much of a problem in my experience, the bigger problem is that Pod runs 5 basics and isn't afraid to fetch them. That makes the Blood Moon pretty hit or miss, you really need to watch game 1 and pay attention to how that particular opponent fetches. If they go overboard on the shocks you can possibly get them with Blood Moon but if they go out of their way to grab basics it's less likely to work. I guess I should have included mentioning that, Blood Moon is a card (atleast in this matchup) that requires you to get a read on your opponent from game 1. Some players will send strong signals that it works on them while other players will signal the opposite. Sometimes when I'm on Pod and I know my opponent has Blood Moon I'll intentionally over fetch the shocks in game 1 just to make them bring in some dead Blood Moons in game 2. That said, Blood Moon still stops Gavony and if the game goes long that's something you need to have a plan to handle.
It's a fair point on Magma Spray, I'll think about that the next time I run Delver. I like having the ability to go to the face to compensate for fewer Swiftspears but maybe you're right and I should just worry about the board. If they lack a board they'll die anyways.
Remand I don't find to be particularly effective against Pod because they'll eventually land the Pod most likely and from then on it's all about tutoring creatures rather than casting spells. Even when they don't land the Pod they can just start the Gavony beatdowns, and then there's Voice which makes countering more difficult.
I play the Delver vs Pod matchup a lot from both sides of the table. You can beat every creature they play but you have to watch out for the Pod itself. If I can land a Pod I only lose to 3+ Cruises, that said you'll hit a lot of Cruises in the match because I find it to go long so a resolved Pod is very beatable. Aggression doesn't work well against Pod because Pontiff and Redcap just do too much damage to the board position, instead I look to go long and grind advantage. Here's the list I play, it's not tuned specifically for Pod but it does go about 55/45 against Pod, you'll notice that I'm less on the aggression plan in general since I do fewer Swiftspear/more Snap but it works. I was influenced a bit by one of the Madrid or Milan lists that splashed white for Geist.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Steam Vents
4 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures 14
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
1 Gut Shot
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Vapor Snag
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Blood Moon
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Hibernation
1 Combust
1 Dispel
1 Spellskite
2 Geist of Saint Traft
My sideboard plan is generally -2 Vapor Snag, -4 Remand, -1 Gitaxian Probe (Probe should probably be another cut but I'm not sure what) +1 Dismember, +2 Pillar of Flame, +1 Hibernation, +1 Combust, +2 Blood Moon. Smash to Smithereens is decent too but you run into issues of what to take out. I used to use them over Dismember/Hibernation, those are new cards I've been trying out to reasonable success. In general I try to use my Swiftspears as Fireballs rather than Goblin Guides. The best play you can make in the match is to Gut Shot a manadork on T1, the next best play is to kill a manadork+something with Forked Bolt.
There's a big difference between 1 mana with haste and 2 mana without haste.
None of that is even bringing up how difficult it is to hit 4 mana on turn 4 in an 18 land deck.
Here's a handy metric for you. Sword of Fire and Ice is about equal in costing to 4 in a turn. The Sword was already just barely making the cut before Treasure Cruise, if it made the cut at all. Any 4 cost card you consider needs to be better than the Sword to even be an option as the Sword no longer makes the cut.
You need to wait until you have priority. If they have a Pod down and play a Kitchen Finks you can respond to the gain life trigger. If they have a Pod down and play a Melira, provided they do nothing else but activate Pod your first chance to respond will be after they pay the costs of Birthing Pod and put the effect on the stack, at which point they'll have sacrificed a creature. Then Pod resolves, a creature comes in, and they have priority again. You'll get priority either during the resolution of the ETB trigger, when they do something else, or when they pass priority to move to the next phase.